Men & Complaining about SEX...

[PandorasBox]

There are a couple of posters in James' 'sexless marriage' thread who indeed have recaptured the sexuality of their M's in a healthy way. It's just the nature of this forum that people come to complain, not share the joy. Joyful people spend their time in the world of joy, not internet forums

 

 

This makes sense.

[bayouboi]

Er, I guess the humour lies in the fact that these men are dumb enough to think highly of their partners and the seriousness in which they took their wedding vows, all the while under-estimating the majestic 'power of a woman' to be a lying cheat. Personally I crack up over monkeys and wordplay, but we're all different I guess.

 

Enjoyed this post. Would read again.

[GorillaTheater]

Personally I crack up over monkeys and wordplay

 

I've found that to be true for myself as well.

[pollswolls]

My initial posting this morning was prompted by the HUGE number of posts here lately that involve this subject & my thinking back to my past. Men that I would chat with (yep - in hind-site, really, really dumb pasttime) would constantly complain. No sex, No intimacy, No romance....Boo Hoo. Therefore, they were online to find any kind of relationship outside their marriage they could find. Obviously, they say these things so someone will feel sorry for them, agree to meet them & Viola'...A new affair is born!

 

Er, I guess the humour lies in the fact that these men are dumb enough to think highly of their partners and the seriousness in which they took their wedding vows, all the while under-estimating the majestic 'power of a woman' to be a lying cheat. Personally I crack up over monkeys and wordplay, but we're all different I guess.

 

You've misunderstood what I said. My reference is to the men that are out there complaining to others or online looking for something outside their marriage - Those are the naive men that believe their wives would never do it to them-the exact thing they themselves are contemplating.(or have done)

[JohnP82]

Are you sure you want to use the word naive? They could very well be aware that their wife would do that or are doing that. The fact that they are refused sex would lead some to believe that the wife is getting it somewhere else, so why shouldn't they?

[EcstasyX6]

OK. Here's a flip flop: I wanted sex more than my x-husband. He didn't have the same energy, passion or drive that I did. He was often tired, and he was out of shape. IMHO sex is kind of the glue that binds a couple together. Also having a similar sexual drive is important. I think overall, women simply don't want sex as much as men. To paraphrase Dr. Oz, only 33% of women have orgasms during intercourse...something like that. Did anyone else hear the quote? That's pretty bad, and I'm sure everyone would agree that probably 99% of men have orgasms during sex.

 

Is it that their men aren't patient enough to take the time to satisfy them, or do they simply have a low libido. If you aren't enjoying sex that much, where's the motivation?

 

We are human beings. Touch, and a physical connection is important, and shouldn't be underestimated, and of course romance and communication is important to women, but a good dose of both makes for a balanced relationship.

[quankanne]

sorry ecs, married women with unbalanced sex lives apparently don't count on this forum. It's perfectly fine for a guy to not put out and his wife mandated to be accepting of it

[carhill]

It's perfectly fine for a guy to not put out and his wife mandated to be accepting of it

 

I hope not. It certainly wasn't fine for me. I missed it horribly, but certainly wasn't going to 'fake' what wasn't naturally there. No intimacy= no sex, for this guy anyway. My wife's complaints about it were completely valid. The imbalance turned upon my complaints about lack of intimacy being deemed invalid. No bending. Fade out. End

[ReturnToSender]

Its not just men..its women. And I dont think its something to crack up over or halarious in any way. I would not cheat on my bf...Ive been very open and honest with him about how I feel. I havnt let myslf go...as a matter of fact, I now weight less and in even better shape than when we first met...I always dress top notch and mind how I look when we're together.

 

Im sure im not the only woman dealing with a workaholic SO who focuses so much on that they are too stressed/no energy/simply little to no sex drive. If it were the only or main basis of the relationship, the relationship would be over. But its not...it is however still an important part of a relationship...having that intimacy with the one you love is important...theres nothing insignificant about it. Or funny. Or whatever. Blah.

[angie2443]

Sex is the foundation of a relationship. Not "one of" the foundations, it's THE foundation.

.

 

This way of thinking may very well blind you to any clues that your marriage/relationship are going down hill. I think, that many men have this idea that as long as they are getting sex in a relationship, and the women seem to be enjoying it, the relationship is fine. The fact is, it takes many things to hold a relationship together. By the time the sex leaves a relationship, the love has most often left a long time ago and the women in these relationship have stopped investing in the relationship. The men have been blind to this because the sex was kept up for awhile, despite the fact that the women have started pulling out from the relationship long ago. It is easy to fake it, for a while. A women can put on a show untill she's tired of the act and just wants to leave but is too afraid. I'm not saying this is the right thing to do, just that this happens a lot.

[The Collector]

You've misunderstood what I said. My reference is to the men that are out there complaining to others or online looking for something outside their marriage - Those are the naive men that believe their wives would never do it to them-the exact thing they themselves are contemplating.(or have done)

 

I re-read your first post, and I suppose I did misunderstand it. The men who think they are owed some cheatin' fun because their wife doesn't want sex are indeed wrong, just as women who justify cheating because their man doesn't satisfy them or make them feel special or whatever. I don't think we get many of the former types of men here though, and I would say that society seems more forgiving of the latter type of women.

[pollswolls]

Its not just men..its women. And I dont think its something to crack up over or halarious in any way.

I did not mean crack up literally - already stated that.

 

Yes, you're probably right - men & women deal with this. I am only speaking of my experience & being a woman.....well, I can't speak for everyone.

[Thaddeus]

Now, is this 'feeling of closeness' with themselves? Or, is it a closeness with the sexual partner?

 

Being sexual with a hooker doesn't make them 'feel close' to her, and it is likely that he doesn't want to feel especially close with her.

 

So, are we venturing into the territory of perhaps suggesting that it is possible... at least... that for some men sex is a way for them to find themselves? For them to be close to themselves? For them to feel their own masculinity?

 

For if the relational dynamic of the partner (eg., love her, don't lover her, married to her, total stranger) are of little importance (although spouse might be the preferred source), and there is a yearning for the 'closeness', can we then assume that closeness and/or sex is really a term for self actualization in the male or female psyche?

Difficult for me to say. I never strayed outside my marriage when I was in a two-year sexless dry spell.

 

But I can tell you that, during that period of constant rejection, my self-esteem took a severe beating.

 

After my first wife died (the sexless marriage bit was wife #2) I was in mourning for about a year and wasn't remotely interested in women or sex or anything else. But after about, oh, 14 to 16 months, my drive returned. I indulged in it, revelled in it. Saw many, many women, had a great time sowing those wild oats again. Nothing lasted, of course, and I found most that most liaisons left me feeling empty and bereft, but it was what I needed to do at the time. I needed to re-discover my masculinity, I suppose, given that the object of my deepest and most profound love was taken from me in an instant, without warning and without reason.

 

In therapy sessions in that first year after my wife died, one of my therapists mentioned that there was a good possibility that I might do exactly that - that is, chase pretty much everything with a skirt. He described it as a way of re-connecting with that feeling of closeness that I had enjoyed with my first wife before she died.

 

So you might be onto something about re-connecting with one's self and one's masculinity.

[ReturnToSender]

I did not mean crack up literally - already stated that.

 

Yes, you're probably right - men & women deal with this. I am only speaking of my experience & being a woman.....well, I can't speak for everyone.

 

Im a woman as well I guess it strikes me cause Im going through this right now, I didnt do anything to deserve this, and I dont believe there is anything wrong with wanting and craving this sort of intimacy from the man I love.

[pollswolls]

Im a woman as well I guess it strikes me cause Im going through this right now, I didnt do anything to deserve this, and I dont believe there is anything wrong with wanting and craving this sort of intimacy from the man I love.

 

You're right - there's nothing wrong with wanting that intimacy from the man you love. But is it not true that dynamics and circumstances in marriages over time, change.

 

I know that with my marriage, in my late 20's & 30's, I wasn't that interested in sex. We were raising a family. Mortgages, Car Payments, Visa, Mastercard - Yadda Yadda Yadda. Too much stress.

But now that we are empty nesters, I find that my sex drive is very much there!

My husband on the other hand, at 50, out of shape, borderline alcoholic, etc. (& some other personal & work related stress issues) His is not so much like he used to be in that department. It's still OK. I'm not out there looking for a replacement, or complaining about "what's due me" like I've read here. It's just the ups & downs that come along with a marriage. Or so I think it is.

[ReturnToSender]

You're right - there's nothing wrong with wanting that intimacy from the man you love. But is it not true that dynamics and circumstances in marriages over time, change.

 

I know that with my marriage, in my late 20's & 30's, I wasn't that interested in sex. We were raising a family. Mortgages, Car Payments, Visa, Mastercard - Yadda Yadda Yadda. Too much stress.

But now that we are empty nesters, I find that my sex drive is very much there!

My husband on the other hand, at 50, out of shape, borderline alcoholic, etc. (& some other personal & work related stress issues) His is not so much like he used to be in that department. It's still OK. I'm not out there looking for a replacement, or complaining about "what's due me" like I've read here. It's just the ups & downs that come along with a marriage. Or so I think it is.

 

Oh I feel you...but there has to be a compromise. Im not thinking of it as whats due me...well, maybe I am Then again, Im incredibly patient and understanding...I realize hes under a lot of stress, I realize hes got a lot going on and on his mind...its been like this for almost a year now, and Ive been a really really good girl!

 

But its a one way street. Im being understanding of his needs, is it really selfish and unfair for me to want him to be understanding of mine as well?

 

I do believe that its not personal, and when things arent so rough things will get better in that department. Everything else about him makes it worth staying, obviously. Plus he is affectionate...its just that..at times, he does feel more like a "really great friend that I can do fun things with and gives great hugs" than he does the man Im in an intimate relationship with.

 

Sex isnt the most important, and not the foundation of a relationship as someone said...but intimacy is what separates a great friend from a special partner...and it does matter.

 

I think I just need to get laid and then I wont be wound up so tight..lol!

[sally4sara]

I think you're misunderstanding and underestimating the meaning that sex holds for men in a relationship.

 

When in a LTR (whether married or not), men get validation from their wives through sex. Being constantly turned down with the age-old excuses (it's too hot/it's too cold/I have a headache/the kids will hear us/I don't want to mess up my hair/etc etc etc) isn't just a denial of sex, it's a complete repudiation of him as a man, as a provider, as a mate, as a love match, as a parent (if applicable) and so forth.

 

Sex is the foundation of a relationship. Not "one of" the foundations, it's THE foundation.

 

I wish women would get this.

 

The subject fascinates me some and after all the threads I've read on this, the above is a pretty accurate assessment of a man sympathetic take and it is the common reasoning men put forth but!

 

There are clue to why this happens I think, in other threads. The ones where men talk of traditional roles and that men don't marry for real partners in life, they marry for someone who will NEED them and for an emotional sex partner rather than someone they are fully compatible with who will have their back just as much as they think they have hers.

Men don't marry for conversation? They don't marry for common interests and goals? The only goals they marry for are children because they can't bear their own? They can't actually be friends with women? They don't marry someone they think THEY NEED. I suspect their wives get a sense of this and say

"oh you think so huh? I bear our children but you don't need me?n" Whamo! No sex!

 

I wonder....if they married for more/other reasons, would less sex leave them with such an intense and overwhelming void in their lives that it leads them to think their marriage was broken. I can understand if nothing is going well; its an obvious bad match. But many, many times posters of this subject say everything else is going fine (or so they think).

I mean, if things cool off in ONLY the bedroom and your world falls apart while everything else is rosey, what does that say to your wife?

 

"I only married you for sex and because I can't have my own offspring."

 

Which I gotta say is oh so romantic and an argument that likely makes the situation worse.

 

I wonder this because EVERY female friend I've ever had that was in a relationship for more than 3 years has stated to me that THEY were not getting enough and their partner went through some porn and/or masturbation diet while being lackluster about sex with her. My SO and I went through it a couple months. We went through a couple months where I didn't want it too, but it was a phase thing and it passed without much fuss or upset.

So I've come up with this hypothesis. Maybe the men we hear complain the loudest about this, married people who only satisfied them sexually and with that gone, their marriage holds nothing for them?

[gopher]

Sex is a part of the unwritten contract that both parties enter into in getting married, the amount and duration are always up for negotiation.

 

I doubt anyone here is arguing that a wife should never have sex with her husband or vice versa....if that's the case, just be roommates.

[NoIDidn't]

I have really enjoyed Lovely's posts. And agreed with them. I do not believe that sex is the foundation of a marriage or non-platonic committed relationship. I believe that its important, but not on the level of food. One will not die from lack of sex. LOL.

 

I find it interesting reading the threads where the men complain of lack of sex. Interesting because there isn't much sex in my marriage right now. About 2 to 4 times month on average, since the birth of my fourth child. I used to have a very high drive and would want to several times a day, almost every day. But my H didn't share that feeling and pulled WAAAAY back. I was being sex deprived. And no one was rushing to my aid to tell him to have sex with me more. In fact, people basically told me to deal with it.

 

And when the roles reversed (not in retaliation), I was being told to give him what he was due. What was I due? Seriously, this double-standard is infuriating. If I wasn't due it, neither is he, IMO.

 

I often wonder why its okay for guys to let themselves go physically, not be very good sexually, or just outright refuse sex - but its not the same for women? Why do men swear that sex is the most important thing for them when they want it, but not when the woman wants it?

 

Why this double-standard?

[EcstasyX6]

I I believe that its important, but not on the level of food. One will not die from lack of sex. LOL.

 

...

And when the roles reversed (not in retaliation), I was being told to give him what he was due. What was I due? Seriously, this double-standard is infuriating. If I wasn't due it, neither is he, IMO.

 

I often wonder why its okay for guys to let themselves go physically, not be very good sexually, or just outright refuse sex - but its not the same for women? Why do men swear that sex is the most important thing for them when they want it, but not when the woman wants it?

 

Why this double-standard?

 

I concur. For 12 years of my marriage, I experienced no orgasms, poor me. The marriage also suffered in other areas. I believe that perhaps if we'd had passion, and that 'glue' that I mentioned earlier, we may have been able to work out the other problems. To quote Dr. Phil, when you don't have that "soft place to fall", it can become a problem...at least for me. I can't speak for other women. I have friends who are happy with sex once or twice a month. That's just not me. My husband was happy, yet I was sexually frustrated all that time. That's living?

[sally4sara]

I have really enjoyed Lovely's posts. And agreed with them. I do not believe that sex is the foundation of a marriage or non-platonic committed relationship. I believe that its important, but not on the level of food. One will not die from lack of sex. LOL.

 

I find it interesting reading the threads where the men complain of lack of sex. Interesting because there isn't much sex in my marriage right now. About 2 to 4 times month on average, since the birth of my fourth child. I used to have a very high drive and would want to several times a day, almost every day. But my H didn't share that feeling and pulled WAAAAY back. I was being sex deprived. And no one was rushing to my aid to tell him to have sex with me more. In fact, people basically told me to deal with it.

 

And when the roles reversed (not in retaliation), I was being told to give him what he was due. What was I due? Seriously, this double-standard is infuriating. If I wasn't due it, neither is he, IMO.

 

I often wonder why its okay for guys to let themselves go physically, not be very good sexually, or just outright refuse sex - but its not the same for women? Why do men swear that sex is the most important thing for them when they want it, but not when the woman wants it?

 

Why this double-standard?

 

Because they married for sex and by damn!, they better be getting it when they want it! They didn't marry you for your conversation skills after all.

 

Not you though, you're a woman and women marry because they are needy. Sex is how women can pay their husbands back for all they provide.

 

This is becoming my new guess on this subject.

[EcstasyX6]

I married for great sex and conversation...asking for too much I guess.

[mem11363]

Picture this and truly tell me how you would react to it.

 

You meet a man and he seems perfect. He is fun and loving and attractive and good in bed and successful. You discuss marriage/babies. You both agree that it will be best if he works for money and you run the house / raise the children.

 

You get engaged - a little bummed out about the small ring he buys you but you don't complain since you don't want to seem shallow and he says he is saving for the house. You get married. You have 2 kids and during that time you start to realize that this great guy you really do love is cheap. Not a little cheap, a LOT cheap. In fact he is in***ingfuriatingly cheap. And he is determined about it. Like you don't have hardly any headroom on credit cards/cash in hand. And he wasn't obvious about this in the beginning, he concealed it pretty well until after the first child by always talking about saving for a house downpayment (which was true). But then he really let himself be the way he really is, cheap. Literally every time you do something a little extravagant, he comments in a way that takes the fun out of it. He makes a really good living age/adjusted but you live in a part of the country where housing is very pricey AND he is insistent on saving 15% of the family income each year no matter what happens. And right now to do that, you have almost no discretionary income.

 

But he works hard and pays all the big bills and makes sure the kids get all the important stuff including music lessons and decent clothes. In fact he mainly seems cheap with YOU.

 

I am going to guess that over time that would make you feel very unloved, very tense and very angry. You would wonder why this man didn't seem to want to exert himself at all to please you in this area. You would see him as selfish and unloving. And you would be right.

 

How is a financially stingy spouse different from a sexually stingy spouse?

 

 

 

I have really enjoyed Lovely's posts. And agreed with them. I do not believe that sex is the foundation of a marriage or non-platonic committed relationship. I believe that its important, but not on the level of food. One will not die from lack of sex. LOL.

 

I find it interesting reading the threads where the men complain of lack of sex. Interesting because there isn't much sex in my marriage right now. About 2 to 4 times month on average, since the birth of my fourth child. I used to have a very high drive and would want to several times a day, almost every day. But my H didn't share that feeling and pulled WAAAAY back. I was being sex deprived. And no one was rushing to my aid to tell him to have sex with me more. In fact, people basically told me to deal with it.

 

And when the roles reversed (not in retaliation), I was being told to give him what he was due. What was I due? Seriously, this double-standard is infuriating. If I wasn't due it, neither is he, IMO.

 

I often wonder why its okay for guys to let themselves go physically, not be very good sexually, or just outright refuse sex - but its not the same for women? Why do men swear that sex is the most important thing for them when they want it, but not when the woman wants it?

 

Why this double-standard?

[carhill]

How is a financially stingy spouse different from a sexually stingy spouse?

LOL, when the sexually stingy wife divorces the financially stingy husband, she gets half the value of his selfish stinginess. He gets (is ordered) to give her half his selfish stinginess. He gets nothing. Zip. Nadda. Bupkis.

 

Next question....

[quankanne]

But he works hard and pays all the big bills and makes sure the kids get all the important stuff including music lessons and decent clothes. In fact he mainly seems cheap with YOU ... How is a financially stingy spouse different from a sexually stingy spouse?

 

he's not, because it's about HIS desires, period.

 

Sally: Sex is how women can pay their husbands back for all they provide.

 

again, it all goes back to HIS desires. What if she's perfectly open to sex ... isn't like previous partners who only bangs him on payday? if she changes the rules of the game to make it more equal footing, she's screwed if he decides HE doesn't want to be involved.

 

frankly, where I'm standing right now, I can see why a woman would go outside a marriage for sexual fulfillment, especially when her husband refuses to embrace in ANY kind of intimacy because he believes it will lead to "sex!"