clatan Posted November 25, 2003 Share Posted November 25, 2003 I'm 33, sigle, no kids and never been even close to getting married. I don't really have a desire to be. I definitely wouldn't move in with a girlfriend... My reasoning is that I don't want to get married and you might as well get married if you do that. Plus, when you just move in with someone, I think it kind of makes things a little "open-ended" from the very start, making divorce pretty likely. I know most people think its just great to live together. It's funny how peoples' moral beleifs are so inconsistent. My best friend lived with his wife for nearly a year before he married last February. I went to Boystown in Nuevo Laredo, Mexico over my vacation and had sex with 5 prostitutes. Now, he acts like I'm just morally bankrupt and horrible for doing that. What's the difference? How is he better? Link to post Share on other sites
Arabess Posted November 25, 2003 Share Posted November 25, 2003 HAHA Claytan!! He may not be better off morally.....but he definately has more money left!! I don't want to live with anyone or get married either. Because of that....I've had my share of 'morally irresponsible" trysts. I've always lived my life with the assumption that unless someone is paying my mortage....I owe them no excuses. I really don't care if anyone approves of what I do or not. Sounds like you are pretty much the same way. Let your friend BASK in his morality....and you just keep enjoying those hookers!!! Link to post Share on other sites
AprilFool Posted November 25, 2003 Share Posted November 25, 2003 No, he has no right to judge your morality. I assume that morality comes from the Bible, and according to the Bible, you will go to hell for "fornication", just as you will go for murder. And yes, people who are not married, but live together and sleep together are considered sinners.....so no, you are no worse than he is...but you are more likely to contract AIDS than he is. Link to post Share on other sites
Arabess Posted November 25, 2003 Share Posted November 25, 2003 GOOD POINT April....!!!!! I was only assuming a man who gets around never forgets his 'jimmy hat'.....LOL! Link to post Share on other sites
AprilFool Posted November 25, 2003 Share Posted November 25, 2003 lol Link to post Share on other sites
Aonz Posted November 25, 2003 Share Posted November 25, 2003 whats a jimmy hat? Link to post Share on other sites
moimeme Posted November 25, 2003 Share Posted November 25, 2003 Well, it's just a guess, but I think it's the black cap burglars supposedly wear when they 'jimmy' a lock. Link to post Share on other sites
AprilFool Posted November 25, 2003 Share Posted November 25, 2003 :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D Link to post Share on other sites
Author clatan Posted November 25, 2003 Author Share Posted November 25, 2003 I'm more likely to get AIDS? I doubt I'd ever get AIDS from oral sex and handjobs with a condom on. Most people in relationships may use birth control but rarely condoms because they "think" they are safer, so I'd say my risk is the same if not less. Link to post Share on other sites
SoleMate Posted November 26, 2003 Share Posted November 26, 2003 Some thoughts for you: 1) If you don't want people's judgments on your sex life, how about keeping it private? That way your married, previously fornicating friend couldn't criticize. 2) On my moral thermometer, you're definitely better than the player who lies to get sex, whether from a prostitute or a civilian. But you're perhaps lower than the person who makes sure that his/her sex acts never hurt anyone, including him/herself. I understand that you had a great experience with these prostitutes, and that they are making a living. It's great to hear that they are serious about safe sex. Prostitution in general is hard on the women who practice it, who are exposed to disease, violence, exploitation, social isolation, and poverty when their working lives run out. I find it distasteful in the same way that I won't buy Oriental carpets woven by little starving abused children. I don't want that blood on my hands. Link to post Share on other sites
bark Posted November 26, 2003 Share Posted November 26, 2003 I believe there is a difference between having sex with 5 exploited third world prostitutes and living with a committed partner before marriage. Call me old fashioned but sex in the context of a romantic, loving relationship is of a higher moral order than sex with 5 Mexican hookers. That doesn't make you immoral but it doesn't make you and your friend's acts morally equivalent. They're just not. Sex with a prostitute is to real sex as masturbation is to real lovemaking. And while masturbation or sex with adult, non-coerced prostitutes is not immoral, these purely self-gratifying acts are a far cry from mutually gratifying lovemaking. And I expect it's not marriage that frightens you as much as real intimacy with a partner who might have some expectations both in and out of bed. Link to post Share on other sites
lostforwords Posted November 26, 2003 Share Posted November 26, 2003 And I expect it's not marriage that frightens you as much as real intimacy with a partner who might have some expectations both in and out of bed. Well said bark!! Link to post Share on other sites
bark Posted November 26, 2003 Share Posted November 26, 2003 Thanks, lost. By the way, that's a nice looking cat. Yours? Link to post Share on other sites
lostforwords Posted November 26, 2003 Share Posted November 26, 2003 Your welcome Bark!!!! and Yes.... his name is snoochie boochies, hes birmese and thank you!! Link to post Share on other sites
Arabess Posted November 27, 2003 Share Posted November 27, 2003 Aonz, A 'jimmy hat' is an old military term for condoms. I'm not sure what the term was derived from. I've just always called them that. Bark, And I expect it's not marriage that frightens you as much as real intimacy with a partner who might have some expectations both in and out of bed. EXACTLY! Arabess Link to post Share on other sites
ThisGirlNameKD Posted November 27, 2003 Share Posted November 27, 2003 What you friend did is no better than what you did. But I agree with you..morality is so inconsistent in this world, and that's why our society is so screwed up. It's impossible to do your own thing all the time without the expense of someone else, because your way may not be their way. Link to post Share on other sites
LauraD Posted November 27, 2003 Share Posted November 27, 2003 Originally posted by bark Call me old fashioned but sex in the context of a romantic, loving relationship is of a higher moral order than sex with 5 Mexican hookers. Sex with a prostitute is to real sex as masturbation is to real lovemaking. And while masturbation or sex with adult, non-coerced prostitutes is not immoral, these purely self-gratifying acts are a far cry from mutually gratifying lovemaking. Bark, I agree. Unfair it may be, but most of us aren't going to equate sex with a prostitute with cohabitation on the moral barometer. Could be because premarital sex within the bounds of a presumably loving relationship is far more admirable than sex with a woman who would do so with anyone who has cash. Now, if he wants to have sex with prostitutes, that is his business. I do agree with the original poster that the morality gauge is selective. It's pretty ironic when, for example, person A is having an extra marital affair but to all the coherent world, they spout religious doctrine, and condemn a couple B who have a child out of wedlock. But not all "sinful" behaviors are created equal. Some which are considered morally wrong might be suffering from a historically-held stigma. An example of this is, in my mind, cohabitation and premarital sex with the genuine intent for life-long commitment. The positive functions of cohabitation and even premarital sex can certainly be argued. To be honest, I don't think there is a proportionate potential for good in frequenting a brothel. Link to post Share on other sites
yogi-mon Posted November 27, 2003 Share Posted November 27, 2003 Drains the soul. I know, I've done it before. It makes you feel torn inside, as I'm sure it does her. (And yes I did wear a jimmy hat) Now, if it didnt make you feel like dirty, why would you bring this up? Just think, while you are off with some hooker, (who is thinking about when her visit with you will end so she can go get her next fix of whatever drug she is addicted to) Your friend is sitting with his wife, talking, sharing breakfasts, empathizing with each others struggles and successes. Marriage, and relationships for that matter are more than sex you know. Link to post Share on other sites
Author clatan Posted November 27, 2003 Author Share Posted November 27, 2003 Originally posted by bark I believe there is a difference between having sex with 5 exploited third world prostitutes and living with a committed partner before marriage. For one thing... you call those Mexican prostitutes "exploited third world prostitutes" This is incorrect. Mexico is not a third world country, far from it actually. The correct designation of a country as a third world country has nothing to do with a nation's economic status but rather its system of government. The United Kingdom, Japan, The United States and YES MEXICO are all FIRST WORLD countries because they all have a free market, representative democratic form of government. Some may identify a nation as being 'third world' because it is a poor or less advanced nation. Even if that where correct, Mexico would still not be a third world country. Although Mexico is poorer than the US or the UK, Mexico is far from being one of the poorest countries in the world and is one of the most wealthy and advanced countries in the world in the areas of medical care, literacy and technology. As far as the "exploited" part, this is incorrect as well. You are evidently used to seeing images of prostitution as it exists in the US. In the US where it is illegal, as a result, you see most of these prostitutes also invloved in drugs, being extorted by pimps and the like. This is not the case with the legal prostitution in Mexico. I've been there and talked with several of these girls. They sometimes pay a small percentage of their income to a bar if they work out of bar, not unlike a stripper or any other employee for that matter. All of the girls I did business with worked entirely for themselves. Originally posted by bark Call me old fashioned but sex in the context of a romantic, loving relationship is of a higher moral order than sex with 5 Mexican hookers. That doesn't make you immoral but it doesn't make you and your friend's acts morally equivalent. They're just not. Both are sex before marriage, both are FORNICATION. You say ... "you and your friend's acts are not morally equivalent" What do you base this on? See, that's my whole point. Does the bible say this? Does the Koran? NO! They are both the same according to the bible and most any other religion (some even elevate prostitution). The idea that one is better than the other is based on nothing other than YOUR OPINION, which in no way makes it A FACT. Link to post Share on other sites
Author clatan Posted November 27, 2003 Author Share Posted November 27, 2003 Originally posted by yogi-mon It makes you feel torn inside, as I'm sure it does her. Now, if it didnt make you feel like dirty, why would you bring this up? Well, maybe it bothered you. But it doesn't bother me. Maybe if I submitted to the typical artificial moral conditioning of this society I would. The reason I brought it up is because, quite simply, it pisses me off. Originally posted by yogi-mon Just think, while you are off with some hooker, (who is thinking about when her visit with you will end so she can go get her next fix of whatever drug she is addicted to... Why is there an assumption that just because someone is a hooker that they do drugs? Once again, I'll say that this may be the case if you visit hookers on the street in the US, where sex for money is illegal. That's usually, by far, not the case in Mexico where I was. The girls I visited would not even drink while on 'duty' because they don't want to risk getting intoxicated and doing something uwise I'd presume. Two of these girls didn't even want me smoking in their rooms! I think we are talking about two different things here. Originally posted by yogi-mon Just think, while you are off with some hooker, (who is thinking about when her visit with you will end so she can go get her next fix of whatever drug she is addicted to) Your friend is sitting with his wife, talking, sharing breakfasts, empathizing with each others struggles and successes. Marriage, and relationships for that matter are more than sex you know. For one thing, I'm not talking about married couples but people who are living together. And I didn't say that live-in relationships are horrible and that they might not share great times and care for each other. But them having SEX without being married is still just as wrong as me having sex with a prostitute. Besides, who says I don't enjoy the company of these girls as well? In fact I did. I will honestly say that I enjoyed talking with these girls. They where very curious about where I lived and what I did for a living as I was about them. I learned a lot about each other and I also brushed up on my spanish. Sure, if I wanted to have sex with them I had to pay 20 or 25 bucks. But honestly tell me that money isn't a big factor in most relationships. How many guys have spent more than 20 bucks buying things for their girlfriends? Link to post Share on other sites
Author clatan Posted November 27, 2003 Author Share Posted November 27, 2003 Originally posted by Arabess HAHA Claytan!! He may not be better off morally.....but he definately has more money left!! Let your friend BASK in his morality....and you just keep enjoying those hookers!!! I agree Arabess! Of course as far as him having more money, that's not even true either. I spent about 150 dollars on those 5 hookers. My friend is the kind that is tight with money and hates to spend it on frivalous things BUT... He's bought a $700 dollar motorcycle, took her out countless times to eat and supported her for a year before they where married. He spent over around $600 for a ring, $6000 on an overly extravagant wedding (which he hated by the way) and over $2000 on the honeymoon. As soon as they where married, he bought her a brand and new $21,000 Jeep Liberty. He would never have bought that thing and spent that kind of money on himself! The cost of a really nice looking 18-24 year-old hooker is 25 bucks in Mexico. With what he's spent already, and I could have bought about 1,100 prostitutes. Link to post Share on other sites
Arabess Posted November 28, 2003 Share Posted November 28, 2003 1,100 prostitutes.......YES, that would definately make you the King of the Mexican 'Head' Dance.......LOL! Link to post Share on other sites
Author clatan Posted November 28, 2003 Author Share Posted November 28, 2003 . Link to post Share on other sites
Author clatan Posted November 28, 2003 Author Share Posted November 28, 2003 Originally posted by AprilFool people who are not married, but live together and sleep together are considered sinners.....so no, you are no worse than he is...but you are more likely to contract AIDS than he is. Depending on the situation. Most people in relationships may use birth control but rarely do they use condoms. And most people have had other relationships in their past, so they are in effect sleeping with their partner's partners. I read a while back that in countries where prostitution is legal, safe sex is always practiced and women in these brothels are inspected regularly. As a result, studies have been done that show, statistically, sex workers have a far lower STD rate than even the general population. I have NEVER had unprotected sex in my life. Also, all five of these prostitutes either gave me oral sex or a handjob only- with a condom. I don't know of any STD that I can get from that. Link to post Share on other sites
Author clatan Posted November 28, 2003 Author Share Posted November 28, 2003 Originally posted by SoleMate you're perhaps lower than the person who makes sure that his/her sex acts never hurt anyone, including him/herself. Prostitution in general is hard on the women who practice it, who are exposed to disease, violence, exploitation, social isolation, and poverty when their working lives run out. Thanks Smilies, You seem to agree with what I'm saying. Another example would be people that are just plain horny, but instead of abstain or just have a prostitute give you a 'hand', these people will brainwash themselves into beleiving that they are 'in love' with whoever they happen to find themselves with because they've been indoctrinated by this psuedo-morality that our society has on prostitution or uncommitted sex. The next thing you have is a pregnancy, then a shaky marriage where kids grow up seeing their parents fight constantly then evuntually a divorce and children being raised by one parent or worse yet, a new live-in who resents living under the roof with some other guys kid. Maybe he abuses this kid even? There's plenty of that these days. As far as prostitution being hard on women I'd agree too. But only in certain cases. If a woman takes care of herself and looks out for her retirement she could make enough money to get out of it. Once they get old, I'll agree, things may not look so good for them but then again, there are plenty of 'legitimate' professions where this is also the case, singers, models, some actresses. I'm not completey disagreeing with you but on one hand, I don't think anyone is exploiting Britney Spears when they buy her albums. Link to post Share on other sites
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