Can love be rekindled easily after it has died?

[Cho Chang]

Tammi-Chan,

 

Great advice... Thanks so much..

[MistyK]

Hi MistyK,

 

Thanks for the word of caution..

 

It is hard to commit someone against her will. I guess if someone intends to harm herself, she'll find a way. He did call her family to ask them to talk to her, and convince her that there is life beyond him. He also asked his own family to talk to her.

 

It's not actually. I've worked in a social work/psych context for a decade and I've committed people myself several times. Whether it's hard or not isn't even the issue - he didn't sense a real threat or he would have at least TRIED. If he truly believed her life was in danger, it was worth a try. It's telling that he didn't try. And what about other outpatient treatment. She is in no treatment at all. So when is it going to be ok for him to move on when she is not getting any better? It's nonsense.

[MistyK]

Because many times threats of suicide are just that-'threats'-it is a form of manipulation. If she really wanted to kill herself she would have done so without all the drama. That said, while it is clear she needs Psych help, I would surmise that the fact that he changed his mind made it all now ok for her. It happens quite often.

 

Maybe she is just a drama queen. But from where I come from, you take threats seriously because you don't want it to haunt you by arrogantly thinking someone was being dramatic. Even if she is just a drama queen then she's incredibly manipulative, possibly sociopathic and still in need of psychiatric help. Either way, the fact that she's all better now that hubby is back on the party line and he made no real effort to get her help makes the whole thing suspect.

[tami-chan]

Maybe she is just a drama queen. But from where I come from, you take threats seriously because you don't want it to haunt you by arrogantly thinking someone was being dramatic. Even if she is just a drama queen then she's incredibly manipulative, possibly sociopathic and still in need of psychiatric help. Either way, the fact that she's all better now that hubby is back on the party line and he made no real effort to get her help makes the whole thing suspect.

 

I agree with you that she still needs to be seen by a mental health professional. However, the sad fact about these things is, most people are not educated enough about the mechanics of mental illness that something like this , while it is a HUGE red flag, still does not alarm many people enough to call 911. Many think that once the person has calmed down, then it is now ok. As you well know, these "suicidal" or "quasi-suicidal" people usually do not "appear" crazy and are usually pacified when they get the attention they crave. or are able to successfully manipulate the situation to their favor. If I were the H I would require that she seek psych help as a condition for working on the marriage.

 

When you say hubby did not make an effort to help her....well, the same could be said about her immediate family-from whom H had asked help to deal with it....so does that mean her family does not care about her? I think not.

[bentnotbroken]

Unless OP has heard these conversations between cheater and his wife...she only has his word for any and everything that HE quotes the wife as saying.

[Cho Chang]

Hi MistyK,

 

I am not posting this from the US -- things work a little differently where I am. All I know is that he brought the knives he found to his office, only to have new knives appear in her room. His anxiety was real. She understood his buttons well.

 

Having said that, there were other factors besides the threat of suicide. Like I mentioned, he suffered some very bad setbacks at work in the same month he found the knives, etc. And I mean really bad. It got him to question the way he takes matters into his own hands, and the way he had pushed the issue of divorce.

[EarthGirl]

Cho,

 

I am not taking sides because I have been on both sides and I don't know you so I have no reason to...but being a person that has attempted suicide I do have to say that I did do it over a man (it was a complicated situation, don't feel like explaining more-but it wasn't outright rejection of me from him)...and I DID get committed to a mental hospital against my will for one very long week..It could have been worse...I had no idea at the time that after I was hospitalized (they did not even pump my stomach, they just had me drink this huge glass of horrible tar stuff...like a mud smoothie or something..soaks up all the drugs I guess..whatever you take if it hasn't gotten into your bloodstream enough yet I guess...I don't know I'm not a doc or a nurse, but I guess they got me there in time that I just had to drink that and I went from feeling like my whole body was jello and everyone was moving in slow motion to being almost completely sober feeling).

 

So anyway I had no idea when I started feeling better that they would not just send me home but then they told me that I had to be admitted to another hospital (i.e. the loony bin)..It wasn't so bad, mostly boring, not much to do they had a few therapy groups every day and tai chi (my fave, it was the fave for most of us) but a lot of hours you just sat around and only one tv to watch and come to agreement on what channel or whatever movie out of what was available. Sad place obviously since everyone was in crisis of some kind, but it was ok. I am not in favor of involuntary commitment as a rule, but if there was a rule that it was only for a week or something I'd be ok with that. for me it was only a week cause I somehow talked myself out of there.

 

Anyway I also have had a similar experience on the other side that I have "threatened" suicide with this ex of mine...only the thing is I was only expressing my own feelings to friends in emails and in an online diary and he was not SUPPOSED to read them..but he did because he has either somehow talked it out of mutual friends or he has somehow hacked into my online stuff... I am not sure but I found out that he knew that I was "thinking" about suicide again and telling people (including his current 'girl' )I was "manipulating" him to come back to me...but I wasn't really talking to him at all, and he wouldn't even have known if he wasn't frankly stalking me and kinda obsessed with me. He also was there when the one and only attempt happened and he WAS supposed to hear what I told him face to face, on the phone and in emails several times which was based on that experience I doubted if I would ever do it again..I may think about it to ease my mind that there is a way out, but I really doubted I could ever go through with it again...that was it, that was my one time, and I survived it, and now I'm just gonna let god take me when he feels the time is right. I am not judging anybody, I personally do not think suicide is a sin...

 

And there are never any guarantees cause this life is damn harsh sometimes and unpredictable, but most likely I will never go through with that again...so he also knew when he eavesdropped on my conversations that is wasn't necessarily something I would go through with at all, but actually a way to let out steam and ease my mind when my mind was in conflict and pain....so I could in fact go on with life.

 

And lastly I'd like to say that even if someone IS serious about considering suicide...sometimes it is just that, they ARE serious...they want out of this hellish life, wether pain from an ex-love is part of that or not...they may actually simply be stating their most sincere wishes and trying to get up the guts to move on to somewhere better...what I am saying is that just because someone says they intend to do that..it could be that they are either asking for help, or are indeed serious that that is what they want and they are just telling people as a way to work through the fear and get the guts up..

 

There is no reason for anyone to assume that someone is using the "threat" of suicide as "manipulation"...

 

I know some people do do that in fact, and this girl may very well have done that..and that is indeed very shameful. Just chiming in here that even if that is the case, not all people are like her.

[Sanafa]

Can you fall in love again..... I think you can find a long lost love and recapture, I also think you can be in a rut in your marriage and recover; however that is far more difficult when trust has been breached, imo it is a primary building block... and once that is destroyed, very difficult to get back.

 

As most know here... I truly believe recovery of affairs * especially multiple/ long term EA or PA or both are far less 'recovered"

 

Even here you will find many that are "recovered" although in my opinion only a very very small few are on truly recovered.

 

It is a long road.... however, because your MM situation is different ( he has yet to go out of the marriage and it appears you have both been steady on that).... it's possible.... it's also possible that he wants to Martyr and have your empathy.

 

In time, if you truly listen to yourself..... you'll find the answer.

[fooled once]

Hi SidLyon,

 

"If "love" never existed then maybe not, but one would start to question why anyone would marry without love - it is very easy to re-invent history and say that he never loved her, when realistically unless there is something very wrong with him he must have."

 

She was his first and only girlfriend. They met when he was a teenager and dated for 7 years before tying the knot. They were conservative and didn't have sexual relations until after marriage, so I suppose they never found out if they were compatible that way before getting married.

 

I think it all depends now on whether they can agree on how their marriage should be. As each defines connection and fulfillment so differently, they need to figure out if any party needs to change his or her needs and selves so much that one or both end up very unhappy.

 

So re-reading your post, he has NOT actually gone through the processing of obtaining a divorce, just supposedly mentioning it to his wife... and possibly drafting a divorce -- POSSIBLY but you don't really know. You know all about their marriage, but not the divorce papers

 

So you believe that they dated for 7 years and never had sex? Okay.

 

And you claim she is a sexless, loveless marriage

 

He was in a sexless and loveless marriage. Over the years, he felt frustrated, resentful and, finally, indifferent. Love has died. He described his marriage as empty and lonely.

 

And an empty and lonely marriage.

 

So what has he done to rekindle the romance in his marriage?

 

And then he threw God into it

 

Turning to God, he was convinced God was disciplining him for refusing to work on his marriage. He argued with God for weeks, but gave in. It was not easy – he used words like “trapped”, “resigned” and “I have no option”.

 

He asked me for support and understanding. The “deal” is that he will work on his marriage to the best of his ability, and leave the outcome to God. If love is rekindled, it’s God’s will. If the emptiness persists after he has done all he could, then all will know the marriage is not meant to be.

 

:confused:Wonder where God's will was when he was turning to a co-worker in a lustful manner instead of his wife? Wonder where God's will was when he chose to pursue you, talk to you, become emotionallly entangled with you ~ instead of his wife?

 

Sounds like he is selling you swampland.

 

Have you two been intimate in anyway? Maybe you and he will not be compatible like him and his wife?

 

Maybe he and his wife should go see a sex therapist. Maybe learn to be more creative in the bedroom, introduce toys, introduce freshness? Maybe he will learn to communicate with is wife? Maybe he will actually confess to his wife his longing for you because they cannot truly start again and BUILD without total honestly and trust. He needs to ask for her forgiveness in looking at you as his next potential mate.

 

And I guess you are going to wait until......... when exactly? How long are you going to give him to work on his marriage? From what I have read, it can take years for a couple to rebuild; are you going to wait that long?

 

Can you try to create that connection if it has not existed for years, or may not even have existed?

 

Are you implying that they never had a connection? How would you know? OHHH - is that what he told you? Is that why he dated her for 7 years, without sex? Because they had no connection?

 

WHY, oh WHY, do we women fall for these lines??? Back in my OW days, well, after them, I thought to myself I had to be the biggest fool to believe the crap he was selling and now it seems like there are so many of us who DO buy the lies, the lines and the bull that comes out of their mouths.

 

This man is NOT responsible for his wife's mental health -- she is responsible for it. NOW, did he contribute to her having mental issues? Was he cruel to her? Did he cut her off sexually?

 

These are questions you do not have the answers to because what person would admit to being cruel to their spouse?

[Jacky]

Pregnancy seems to be able to rekindle love, kind of happening in my EA with a MW.

[Cho Chang]

Hi fooled once,

 

I posted on this forum on a pretty bad day, and it has been more than helpful for me. I suppose it's natural for everyone here to have a frame of reference resembling what he or she went through. It is not possible to share everything in a few posts (and I certainly don't think there is a need to). I am sure you know your situation better than anyone else here, and I know mine.

 

He did not just "mention" divorce to his wife. He wanted a divorce in no uncertain terms. Both their families were brought into the picture to mediate. I was privvy to many phone conversations.

 

Divorce is not God's plan, but this is not a perfect world we live in. Marriages fall apart for many reasons. He admitted that he was so unhappy that he did not want to know what God had to say about ending his marriage -- he just wanted to close a bleak chapter and move on.

 

If you had read my post carefully, we did not seek a connection. We were friends, and we remained just friends throughout. If he were in any way connected to his wife, he would not be able to feel emotionally close to me. If I did not come into the picture, he would probably meet someone else he can connect with, and fall in love with her. This is because I believe the heart cannot sustain a vacuum.

 

Obviously, love did not die simply because it was sexless. Intimacy is so much more than that. When there is emotional intimacy, physical intimacy usually follows. This is not about introducing "toys" to liven up the bedroom scene, like you seem to suggest.

 

I suppose they got married 11 years ago because both of them felt it was right on some level. I did not even consider that they did not have a connection -- why is that relevant now?

 

There are men who will not care a hoot if someone else is planning to kill herself over them. He is just not one of them, and I am glad. To have you suggest he has been cruel to her when he is sacrificing his own happiness now to make her happy is ironic.

 

Finally, he has not asked anything from me outside the boundaries of friendship, so there is nothing for him to gain by lying to me. In fact, he had been there for me through recent life upheavals, including the death of a parent earlier this year. Whatever happens, we will remain friends.

[Cho Chang]

Dear Earthgirl,

 

Thank you for sharing your story with me. I am sorry this happened to you, because you sound like a very nice person.

 

Do you have a personal email address?

 

:-)

[Devil Inside]

Cho

 

Sounds like this man may be married to a woman with Borderline Personality Disorder. If this is true he is in for quite a ride. This will not end easy or without a lot of drama.

 

Do you really want to stick around for all that?

 

If he feels really guilty now...just wait...she will turn up the heat...and he might not be able to leave her and maintain his sense of self at the same time.

[EarthGirl]

Cho,

 

yes I have an email address, and I don't mind giving it to you, but I don't like to put it on a public website for everyone to see, if I do give it out to "strangers' on the net, then I usually just pick and choose if the person seems nice and if they ask for it.

 

I will try to private message you, but I tried to pm someone else and it didn't work, and somebody also told me on another thread that they tried to pm me, but they couldn't...I wonder if you have to somehow activate the private message system on this site?

[Cho Chang]

yes I have an email address, and I don't mind giving it to you, but I don't like to put it on a public website for everyone to see, if I do give it out to "strangers' on the net, then I usually just pick and choose if the person seems nice and if they ask for it.

 

I will try to private message you, but I tried to pm someone else and it didn't work, and somebody also told me on another thread that they tried to pm me, but they couldn't...I wonder if you have to somehow activate the private message system on this site?

 

Hey there.. let me set up a new email account just for LS, and I'll it post it here..

[cianne]

I met my current husband while he was married. He had been separated for 2 years and completely supporting his estranged wife and their son. We had a fabulous 10 days together. He is a religious man and the day after meeting me he called his elders at his church and his wife to tell them about me. I asked why he did that and he said because he had committed adultery with me, and because of this his wife had grounds for divorce and then we would be free to marry. Well after 10 wonderful days together the wife decided she wanted him back, and of course he went back at the drop of a hat, and of course I was heatbroken. He left and I had no contact from him for 1 year and 10 months, then they split again and he returned to me. They divorced and we married. We have now been married 10 years and that happened in 1996. I just had an affair and am trying to get over it. It almost seems like Dejavue. I think once a marriage has gone sour it does not recover. Sometimes it takes a long time, but I do believe once love and passion is gone it does not come back.

[Cho Chang]

I think once a marriage has gone sour it does not recover. Sometimes it takes a long time, but I do believe once love and passion is gone it does not come back.

 

How do you feel about your husband now? Are you trying to rebuild love and passion?

 

I think if someone makes the decision to work on his or her marriage because they know they still have feelings for their spouses, then passion can possibly return. But if you make that decision in order to stop someone from harming herself or for religious beliefs, then I wonder if true connection can be restored. Would you be able to feel true romance and passion with someone who chooses to harm herself if you leave? Of course, with God, all things are possible...

[cianne]

How do you feel about your husband now? Are you trying to rebuild love and passion?

 

I think if someone makes the decision to work on his or her marriage because they know they still have feelings for their spouses, then passion can possibly return. But if you make that decision in order to stop someone from harming herself or for religious beliefs, then I wonder if true connection can be restored. Would you be able to feel true romance and passion with someone who chooses to harm herself if you leave? Of course, with God, all things are possible...

When my current H left me after knowing me for 10 days, I confided in close older & wiser friends. At that time they assured me he would be back, and of course they were correct. Now that I have been married to him for 10 years and the passion is gone, I know without a doubvt it will not come back, and I refuse to go the rest of my life without passion in my life for the man I am with. A for my MM man who I recently was involved with, and who also went back to his W. I know without a doubt he will also return to me. It may take awhile, and I will not interfere with his wishes to try to make his marriage work, but utlimatley I am confident he will be back in my life very soon.

[jennie-jennie]

When my current H left me after knowing me for 10 days, I confided in close older & wiser friends. At that time they assured me he would be back, and of course they were correct. Now that I have been married to him for 10 years and the passion is gone, I know without a doubvt it will not come back, and I refuse to go the rest of my life without passion in my life for the man I am with. A for my MM man who I recently was involved with, and who also went back to his W. I know without a doubt he will also return to me. It may take awhile, and I will not interfere with his wishes to try to make his marriage work, but utlimatley I am confident he will be back in my life very soon.

 

Hey, I like your thinking. I hope you are correct. My MM is working on his marriage right now. Mmm, I would like him back - divorced.

[Cho Chang]

Sounds like this man may be married to a woman with Borderline Personality Disorder. If this is true he is in for quite a ride. This will not end easy or without a lot of drama.

 

Do you really want to stick around for all that?

 

If he feels really guilty now...just wait...she will turn up the heat...and he might not be able to leave her and maintain his sense of self at the same time.

 

I don't think she has a personality disorder, or it would have shown up years ago. Instead, I think there is a fair amount of emotional manipulation.

 

MM is too close to the problem to see it, but someone so unhappy that death is a release would not have the presence of mind to leave instructions on the shoes she would like to be buried in or the preferred colour of her coffin... But I guess I can't blame her for doing whatever she could to save her marriage...

[Cho Chang]

Hey, I like your thinking. I hope you are correct. My MM is working on his marriage right now. Mmm, I would like him back - divorced.

 

IMHO, he has to give his marriage his best shot in order to have absolute clarity that he is making the right decision. This is helpful for the BS to find closure as well, if the marriage is truly over.

 

This way, if he decides to leave, there is no guilt or other emotional baggage. That is the kind of guy we want to start a relationship with -- someone at peace with himself and who doesn't have a cut-and-run mentality regarding relationships.

[GypsyRayne]

I don't know if their love cam be rekindled or if their marriage will work, but here is what I do know.

 

I was married at a very young age, had kids with him and I loved him. We were young and the marriage wasn't good. He told me over and over he didn't want to be married, he didn't want kids so one day I said fine and I left. He changed his mind, I didn't. One night he came over and told me he was going to kill himself. The next morning, he was dead. Even though I know that it wasn't my fault, it haunts me. I have felt guilty, I have felt responsible, I have loved him, hated him for doing this thing to his kids, but in all reality, it was his choice, his decision, his life and his death. I am not responsible. He is.

[cianne]

Hey, I like your thinking. I hope you are correct. My MM is working on his marriage right now. Mmm, I would like him back - divorced.

Well it will probably happen. The way I see it is that the wife loses the want to have sex with the H, so the H needs to get it somewhere else, and he does, and its good, but then the wife who has been rejecting him all of a sudden wants him back, usually due to jealousy, and bam the H thinks things will be just like they were when they first met...but....it is for a little while...then its back to the same ole hum drum life that it was when he went looking for another woman, or the big A that so many call it on here. In reality, that is just how the cookie crumbles. Some men are sex addicts, but most are very simple,,,they want to be loved and respected and be in love with their woman. For some reason women lose that feeling for their man...especially in the younger years...when women get a little older, and they find that someone..married or not...that is it for life I do believe. I don't give a rats a?? as to what others say about making their marriage work...most of the time it does not...once its dead....its dead. So for all the OW & OM, hang on...it will work out in your favor most of the time.

[White Flower]

I don't know if their love cam be rekindled or if their marriage will work, but here is what I do know.

 

I was married at a very young age, had kids with him and I loved him. We were young and the marriage wasn't good. He told me over and over he didn't want to be married, he didn't want kids so one day I said fine and I left. He changed his mind, I didn't. One night he came over and told me he was going to kill himself. The next morning, he was dead. Even though I know that it wasn't my fault, it haunts me. I have felt guilty, I have felt responsible, I have loved him, hated him for doing this thing to his kids, but in all reality, it was his choice, his decision, his life and his death. I am not responsible. He is.

I just wanted to agree with you. I didn't know your story so thank you for sharing it here. Yes, it was his choice to hurt himself-take his life and you are not to blame. We cannot hold a spouse responsible for our very lives, it is just unfair to expect it. And very selfish.

 

Men tend to cave in to this type of thing, though, because they look so unhero-like if they do leave and the W goes ahead with her threat. His image is more important than the love for his OW.

[LakesideDream]

My guess is that the man was deeply fearfull and believed he had no hope. No hope of happiness in the future.

 

Hope is a powerful thing. Right up there with love. People in hopeless situations often do extraordinary things. Hopeless people also sometimes just stop trying. Fear is a powerful thing as well with the same type of responses. Combine both and there is a possibility of either great triumph, or tragity.

 

It's sad. I believe that where there is life, there is hope. Many people don't share that opinion.