donnamaybe Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 As for gifts pre-affair, that's called "grooming." Link to post Share on other sites
MistyK Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 This is in the case of when the affair is clearly understood to be ONLY sex on the side and not one where an AP is hoping their MM/MW will eventually leave their spouse. Please keep in mind, this is ONLY my opinion. Ok fair enough. Thanks for the clarifier. Link to post Share on other sites
Author 2sure Posted September 22, 2009 Author Share Posted September 22, 2009 Ya know....just thinking. MM seeking an affair is a predator of sorts...established. Often uses manipulation and lies. Now , I know this is not ALWAYS - but a commonly accepted perception, and usually my own , by the way. But when his victim - which is not only his wife but OW as well... benefits from the relationship.... There is less sympathy for her. When OW becomes less of the victim (by MM paying her rent) ...she becomes the predator and possibly a prostitute. Now take the OW...her role often is one of vulnerability. She is in love, she makes sacrifices typically, fore goes searching for another partner...wrong maybe, but committed here. You cant help but feel some sympathy in my opinion. But let her accept a big gift. BOOM. HOOKER. Link to post Share on other sites
Sanafa Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 Prostitutes provide emotional support? When did they start to provide anything other than sex? Sanafa - I don't think its neccessary to compare dollar for dollar every gift you get with every gift you give to determine equality. And I still don't see how through your narrow definition taking a gify from a boyfriend who happens to be married is different than taking a gift from a single boyfriend. One is being dubbed prostitution and one is not. It makes no sense. The difference in my opinion is several relationships with the agreement of payment. As for the gift, I don't recall saying a gift is different from MM or SG.... they are not... however I also don't believe gifts are something that are pre-disscussed.... such as payment of rent. Gifts, to me are given when wanted... not as agreed to and that to me, is the difference between a paid companion and a GF BTW..... Prostitutes do not provide emotional support ---- Escorts and Companions do - a higher level of the original. And, I do have some first hand knowledge as we have as I have stated played with a paid companion ( obviously, our requests as a couple were different - however I did get to know the lady very well, and we still remain in contact) Again, by no means am I belittling or do I take any issue with the profession... but it is what it is.. .and "gifts or donations" when agreed to is a polite way of expressing it and in fact the only "legal" way in Canada to express it Link to post Share on other sites
GorillaTheater Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 Entering ino an affair for material gain is unethical in my opinion, not because of the "material gain" component but because of the "affair" part. Alot of posters are pretty keen on making it clear that they weren't in it for the bucks, but so what? How is being in an affair for material gain any more unethical than being in an affair for any other reason? Link to post Share on other sites
Sanafa Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 Now take the OW...her role often is one of vulnerability. She is in love, she makes sacrifices typically, fore goes searching for another partner...wrong maybe, but committed here. You cant help but feel some sympathy in my opinion. But let her accept a big gift. BOOM. HOOKER. Not at all 2sure... I don't think imo, that is what people are saying - it certainly isn't what I am saying However when you make agreements that certain gifts Must/Will be made... that is different - when you expect gifts big or small in compensation for your time or the lacking of certain things ( time, etc) ... you are in fact being compensated and therefore a prostitute in the true definition of it. Link to post Share on other sites
Athena Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 I know whats happening in my life right now is not my fault. But you know, I didnt get here by some freak accident. This is the interesting part for me -- the part where you point out that you didn't get to where you are today by some freak accident, thereby implying that your choices somehow inevitably led you here. Elaborate on this please! Link to post Share on other sites
Author 2sure Posted September 22, 2009 Author Share Posted September 22, 2009 I have to point out in all fairness...that that type of lifestyle did cost me a little bit of my soul. I gained in other ways, and not just financially so it wasnt all bad. But an affair with MM does cost OW something, maybe a piece of her soul which she will not miss or notice, like me, for years. I just think it should cost MM something too. AND I think that as long she's doing it, OW should also receive nice gifts, vacations, and cars. It still makes her OW, it doesnt change anything, it doesnt turn her from OW to Hooker. Especially for the so many OW who know he isnt leaving, who knows she isnt being treated fairly, who knows the whole thing is wrong anyway...if you absolutely cannot give him up: Take the damn car. lol. Link to post Share on other sites
Athena Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 But an affair with MM does cost OW something, maybe a piece of her soul which she will not miss or notice, like me, for years. I just think it should cost MM something too. AND I think that as long she's doing it, OW should also receive nice gifts, vacations, and cars. . Would the reverse hold true for a SG having an affair with a MW? Should she also be offering him more in the material sense? Link to post Share on other sites
GorillaTheater Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 This is the interesting part for me -- the part where you point out that you didn't get to where you are today by some freak accident, thereby implying that your choices somehow inevitably led you here. Elaborate on this please! For godssakes nobody say anything Karma. TaraMaiden'll be here kicking our ass. Link to post Share on other sites
Author 2sure Posted September 22, 2009 Author Share Posted September 22, 2009 This is the interesting part for me -- the part where you point out that you didn't get to where you are today by some freak accident, thereby implying that your choices somehow inevitably led you here. Elaborate on this please! LOL. You over estimate me Athena. If I knew the answer to that...I wouldnt be asking questions here. I'm sure it has something to do with...I'm not all that great with intimacy. Or I suspect I am not. And neither is my H. Our marriage was like the blind leading the blind. BUT. Thats not what we're talking about here. Really. Link to post Share on other sites
Author 2sure Posted September 22, 2009 Author Share Posted September 22, 2009 For godssakes nobody say anything Karma. TaraMaiden'll be here kicking our ass. I know. I especially do not look forward to telling her I think I AM Karma. Link to post Share on other sites
GorillaTheater Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 I know. I especially do not look forward to telling her I think I AM Karma. I hate it when I leave words out of my posts; it makes me look stoopid. BTW, anyone want to take a crack at this?: Entering ino an affair for material gain is unethical in my opinion, not because of the "material gain" component but because of the "affair" part. Alot of posters are pretty keen on making it clear that they weren't in it for the bucks, but so what? How is being in an affair for material gain any more unethical than being in an affair for any other reason? Link to post Share on other sites
Author 2sure Posted September 22, 2009 Author Share Posted September 22, 2009 Welllll, yuhhh, GT. Thats what I said. It just took me a whole thread to get there. - Karma Link to post Share on other sites
TogetherForever Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 I hate it when I leave words out of my posts; it makes me look stoopid. BTW, anyone want to take a crack at this?: How is being in an affair for material gain any more unethical than being in an affair for any other reason? It isn't any different or more unethical than being in an affair for any other reason. Link to post Share on other sites
Sanafa Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 How is being in an affair for material gain any more unethical than being in an affair for any other reason? It isn't any different or more unethical than being in an affair for any other reason. Agree..... absolutely no different. Link to post Share on other sites
GorillaTheater Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 Welllll, yuhhh, GT. Thats what I said. It just took me a whole thread to get there. - Karma I don't believe in karma, only in consequences which are random more often than not. I don't think you're facing consequences for being an OW. What you're dealing with now is the fallout from a spouse who was able, for a time, to successfully conceal some pretty deep flaws. And when Tara shows up, you guys are on your own. Link to post Share on other sites
GorillaTheater Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 TF and Sanafa, thanks; that's what I was hoping you guys would say. See 2sure? You're no more of a moral leper than anybody else around here. Link to post Share on other sites
Author 2sure Posted September 22, 2009 Author Share Posted September 22, 2009 No, No. Honestly, I dont feel my H's being an assh*le has any baring on this particular issue. Its not all about him, all about his infidelity, all the time. On occasion, I can still change channels. I may regret my former position as OW...but like, I'm not deeply depressed about it. And plus, I still have the car. -Karma Link to post Share on other sites
TogetherForever Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 TF and Sanafa, thanks; that's what I was hoping you guys would say. See 2sure? You're no more of a moral leper than anybody else around here. You're welcome GT. BUT, I don't consider ourselves to be moral lepers. Link to post Share on other sites
TogetherForever Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 No, No. Honestly, I dont feel my H's being an assh*le has any baring on this particular issue. Its not all about him, all about his infidelity, all the time. On occasion, I can still change channels. I may regret my former position as OW...but like, I'm not deeply depressed about it. And plus, I still have the car. -Karma You're a riot. I love it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to post Share on other sites
summerautumn Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 Fascinating thread! 2sure, if I may offer one perspective on this on the decisions to get here part. I agree with your argument that OW shouldn't allow herself to be completely used. However, putting aside the morality of the affair, it appears to me that you are talking about different types of decisions here. Making a survival based decision is to compromise in any way out of a deep seated fear that one wouldn't be able to handle life on their own, and out of a pessimistic view of the future. Without envisioning that life can be a lot more abundant, the rationalle for staying in an affair or in a marriage for that matter despite things not being satisfactory is strong. Within this reasoning, both staying in an affair for the OW, OM, and staying in a marriage for the MM, MW, BS is based on a terrifying fear that this is more or less what life can offer. I dont' think that fear is conscious for most people. Making an emotion based decision is to take emotions for the end all, be all indicator for what path one needs to take. Emotions are at their core changeable and not who we are. It took me a long time to understand that part. I identified with my emotions very strongly. Beyond the first two decision making processes is the soul's decision. After one has trancended the fears and identifications, one can make a decision based on a much deeper sense of knowing that something is "right". That feeling of "rightness" is different than the moralistic sense, but as I read somewhere, that sense will Never lead one to cause another person pain. That part also took me a long time to get. By that definition, any affair is just not based on a free choice, it is based in some type of fear that causes a sense of desire for xyz. This is what came to me after reading all your posts. Thank you again for the food for thought! Link to post Share on other sites
Athena Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 Websters: Gypped gyp definition ☆ gyp (jip) noun 1. an act of cheating; swindle; fraud 2. a swindler also gypper gyp′·per or gypster gyp′·ster Etymology: prob. < Gypsy transitive verb, intransitive verb gypped, gypping gyp′·ping Informal to swindle; cheat. gypped Urban Dictionary 1. gypped Used as a term to describe when one has received less than they paid for. Most people do not realize it's a racist term that stems from nomadic 'gypsies' who are stereotyped as thieving criminals. "Man, look at your glass. You got gypped on the Coke." gyp definition 2. gypped a racial slur against gypsies they gypped me jypped ripped off gypsies squamed screwed over 3. gypped A slang word that someone uses when they feel they haven't gotten they're moneys worth or if they have been riped off. it comes from Gypsies who used to rip people off back in the day, Link to post Share on other sites
GorillaTheater Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 I'm sure I speak for everyone when I say that I've had just about enough of 2sure's anti-Roma bigotry. Link to post Share on other sites
Author 2sure Posted September 22, 2009 Author Share Posted September 22, 2009 Summerautum - Yes, I see your points. Some people base their decisions on what they feel, or their emotions...and other people base them on what they feel they need to survive which in essence has an amount of fear...even fear of change. I have never been an "at all costs" type of person so, I probably make decisions somewhere in the middle of both. But certainly, any one who is very emotional or very insecure would lean toward one or the other. On another note - Do you by any chance, for a living - write those disclaimers that come at the end of medication commercials? Link to post Share on other sites
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