3 months of NC starting today

[NoIDidn't]

Now our plans were changed because I pressed on us doing the NC right away.

 

 

His anxiety concerns leaving the life he knows in which he lives fulltime with his children.

 

I am not sure why you are so defensive, I just said what you put in your own post. How that means that I don't have the "facts" is puzzling.

 

You said yourself that you "pressed" on doing NC right away. Pressed, pushed, no real difference.

 

Regarding his anxiety about not living full time with his children, you may have said it here, but apparently you didn't get it from out of thin air if he is telling you about "anxiety".

 

I'm just trying to be realistic. The picture you painted from day one was not one where he was trying to marry you or be exclusive with you. I do believe that you are the OW that told her MM about GEL's comments and he mocked her saying that she must be married now. Doesn't sound like a man that's really trying to leave one marriage for another.

 

I'm not trying to be snarky. I wish you luck, but I also wish you clarity. Looking at this with rose colored glasses is not going to give you clarity.

 

I could very well be wrong and off about his intentions, but I am only going on what you actually did post. I'm sorry it set you off somehow.

[jennie-jennie]

I am not sure why you are so defensive, I just said what you put in your own post. How that means that I don't have the "facts" is puzzling.

 

You said yourself that you "pressed" on doing NC right away. Pressed, pushed, no real difference.

 

Regarding his anxiety about not living full time with his children, you may have said it here, but apparently you didn't get it from out of thin air if he is telling you about "anxiety".

 

I'm just trying to be realistic. The picture you painted from day one was not one where he was trying to marry you or be exclusive with you. I do believe that you are the OW that told her MM about GEL's comments and he mocked her saying that she must be married now. Doesn't sound like a man that's really trying to leave one marriage for another.

 

I'm not trying to be snarky. I wish you luck, but I also wish you clarity. Looking at this with rose colored glasses is not going to give you clarity.

 

I could very well be wrong and off about his intentions, but I am only going on what you actually did post. I'm sorry it set you off somehow.

 

You set me off because you misinterpret what I am saying. He pushed for the NC, I only pushed to do it now instead of waiting until later since I realized it was coming, the question was only when. Now you have twisted this into me pushing "him to the NC thing to hopefully *help* him see that he needs you more".

 

My MM never mocked GEL. He just concluded that he thought she must be married now based on her post. He was right. Drawing a conclusion is not the same as mocking.

 

But you are right about something, my MM is having second thoughts about the institution of marriage. Hmm, second thoughts might not be correct, I believe he reluctantly got married in the first place because he saw no reason not to. But once married he has tried to keep his vows, even if the best he has managed to do lately is to stay with his wife while having an EMR.

 

Anyway, the EMR has caused him to be even more reluctant to marriage. I don't believe he would make the same mistake twice. I am not expecting ever to marry him. Also if you had read some of my posts you would have seen that I too am very dubious about the institution of marriage. Perhaps you missed those posts.

 

His kids are a concern of his. For what father would they not be? But he has not even mentioned them since NC was broken.

[jennie-jennie]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jennie-jennie

The thought process is that I am having a relationship with this man. We are passionately in love with each other. If he has sex with any other woman he is cheating on me. That includes sex with his wife.

 

 

"I read this and thought of your thread of the NC for three months and went .

 

So right now your MM is cheating on you, since I am sure that this seeing if his marriage can "work" will involve lots of sex with her. That's usually what men do (no offense to the men here) when they are seeing if things "work". They check the sexual compatibility box.

 

Do you feel that he is cheating on you by doing this? I will put this in your thread as well.

 

Sorry, All."

 

The above post is written by NoIDidn't. I copied it from another thread so as not to threadjack.

 

Yes, I did tell my MM before we went NC that although I understood that having sex with his wife was included in working on marriage, I do consider that to be cheating on me.

[NoIDidn't]

You set me off because you misinterpret what I am saying. He pushed for the NC, I only pushed to do it now instead of waiting until later since I realized it was coming, the question was only when. Now you have twisted this into me pushing "him to the NC thing to hopefully *help* him see that he needs you more".

 

Ahhh. I see your point. My mistake.

 

My MM never mocked GEL. He just concluded that he thought she must be married now based on her post. He was right. Drawing a conclusion is not the same as mocking.

 

I disagree. You mention that he read the post and commented that "she must be married". He didn't simply draw a conclusion. He mocked her reaction as that of an OW that finally "gets" her man and her marriage to him. I might not be completely objective, but I know mocking when I see/read it.

 

But you are right about something, my MM is having second thoughts about the institution of marriage. Hmm, second thoughts might not be correct, I believe he reluctantly got married in the first place because he saw no reason not to. But once married he has tried to keep his vows, even if the best he has managed to do lately is to stay with his wife while having an EMR.

 

Anyway, the EMR has caused him to be even more reluctant to marriage. I don't believe he would make the same mistake twice. I am not expecting ever to marry him. Also if you had read some of my posts you would have seen that I too am very dubious about the institution of marriage. Perhaps you missed those posts.

 

His kids are a concern of his. For what father would they not be? But he has not even mentioned them since NC was broken.

 

I see where my misinterpretation of why you "pressed" for the NC may have set you off. But I don't see where I am wrong or off about the rest. I didn't say that he shouldn't be concerned about his kids. In fact, I told a story about my H and our daughter to demonstrate what he might be leaving and how hard that will be for him.

 

He's not likely to talk about his children since breaking NC. He isn't concerned about them when he speaks to you as his marital aid. They are safe, he is safe and feeling better after his fix of hearing your voice.

 

He could very well go NC with his W. But like I said before, the three days without you where he tried to reconnect with her, will likely set off her spidey senses when he starts talking about a trial separation.

 

It would be great if he could go NC with both of you for a week. He will likely find that he doesn't want to live without his W and the familiarity that she brings to his life and kids. He may also find that he can't live without having someone on the side to meet the needs he's too afraid to share with his W that he has.

 

What I am saying, is that he sounds like he is basically setting up a post on the fence. You don't sound strong enough to do NC long enough to knock him off the fence. But that is what you need and you don't want to do it.

[jennie-jennie]

Whatever.

 

So now you are pushing for NC to hopefully make him see that he needs me. Sorry, I don't believe in doing it that way. Not more than once anyway. NC already made its point to him.

 

And it was 5 days, remember?

[NoIDidn't]

Whatever.

 

So now you are pushing for NC to hopefully make him see that he needs me. Sorry, I don't believe in doing it that way. Not more than once anyway. NC already made its point to him.

 

And it was 5 days, remember?

 

I can see that you are too defensive now to actually read my post with clarity.

 

Too bad, too.

 

(are you saying that to do it again would be doing it more than once? I thought you said that wasn't your intention? I'm getting confused.)

 

I didn't say to use NC only to make him see that he needs you. He needs clarity and he isn't going to get it with you and her still in the picture all the time. He is setting up his perch on the fence. And the fact that you are long distance makes it even more unlikely that he will leave. If his children are a concern of his, why would he leave them and go be with you? How is he going to be an effective father from a distance? He can't. So, either he will convince you to move closer to him, or you go back to affair.

 

It looks like you just set yourself up for a neverending affair and that is not what you want according to your posts here.

 

You should stop giving him his excuses with all your "understanding". Haven't the two of you been up to this (affair) for years?

 

I am not in an affair, but I certainly know how to push a man off the fence, and when to walk when he clings to that fence for dear life.

 

Your decision to make, certainly. I just hope that you don't set yourself up to be in the shadows of his life forever if that's not what you want.

[moaningmyrtle]

Whatever.

 

So now you are pushing for NC to hopefully make him see that he needs me. Sorry, I don't believe in doing it that way. Not more than once anyway. NC already made its point to him.

 

And it was 5 days, remember?

 

What are you going to do now? Will you simply go back to having an A and being a secret or do you plan to "encourage" him to choose between you.

 

I know it's easy for the OW too to sit on the fence and hope the MM will do the right thing without her having to push him or feel like she's forcing the issue. But what does one do when both the MM and the OW are fence sitters and the BW doesn't have enough information to force the issue? I certainly don't know.

[NoIDidn't]

And it was 5 days, remember?

 

And forgive me for pointing this out, but this thread was started on the 25th. He contacted you yesterday, the 29th. The title of the thread includes "NC starts TODAY", right?

 

So that would make it four days, and not five. Not that I have any interest in counting. I just find it interesting that you exaggerate the time elapsed.

 

It was my mistake about the 3 day figure, I took that from Misty's post since you didn't refute it. Again, my mistake.

 

How many years have you been having this long distance affair? I'm sure you said it somewhere before but I can't remember.

[NoIDidn't]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jennie-jennie

The thought process is that I am having a relationship with this man. We are passionately in love with each other. If he has sex with any other woman he is cheating on me. That includes sex with his wife.

 

 

"I read this and thought of your thread of the NC for three months and went .

 

So right now your MM is cheating on you, since I am sure that this seeing if his marriage can "work" will involve lots of sex with her. That's usually what men do (no offense to the men here) when they are seeing if things "work". They check the sexual compatibility box.

 

Do you feel that he is cheating on you by doing this? I will put this in your thread as well.

 

Sorry, All."

 

The above post is written by NoIDidn't. I copied it from another thread so as not to threadjack.

 

Yes, I did tell my MM before we went NC that although I understood that having sex with his wife was included in working on marriage, I do consider that to be cheating on me.

 

It didn't fit the road the thread was taking, so I decided against putting it in here. But since you did, I will respond.

 

It doesn't sound like you had a realistic expectation of what "working on his marriage" actually entailed. If you had this view, why even encourage him to try the NC?

 

I feel that you have falsely accused me of misinterpretting your desires for NC. It doesn't seem like you ever expected him to truly work on his marriage if you threw this monkey wrench into his ability to do so. A marriage without sex isn't going to make anyone want to stay, if they actually want sex, that is.

[moaningmyrtle]

It didn't fit the road the thread was taking, so I decided against putting it in here. But since you did, I will respond.

 

It doesn't sound like you had a realistic expectation of what "working on his marriage" actually entailed. If you had this view, why even encourage him to try the NC?

 

I feel that you have falsely accused me of misinterpretting your desires for NC. It doesn't seem like you ever expected him to truly work on his marriage if you threw this monkey wrench into his ability to do so. A marriage without sex isn't going to make anyone want to stay, if they actually want sex, that is.

 

It seems to be setting him up either for failure with his wife or to have to lie to Jennie that he didn't cheat on her.

[jennie-jennie]

And forgive me for pointing this out, but this thread was started on the 25th. He contacted you yesterday, the 29th. The title of the thread includes "NC starts TODAY", right?

 

So that would make it four days, and not five. Not that I have any interest in counting. I just find it interesting that you exaggerate the time elapsed.

 

It was my mistake about the 3 day figure, I took that from Misty's post since you didn't refute it. Again, my mistake.

 

How many years have you been having this long distance affair? I'm sure you said it somewhere before but I can't remember.

 

My mistake in naming the thread. NC started September 23rd at 6.30 PM. I broke NC September 24th. NC restarted September 24th at 11.00 PM. Ended September 29th at 14.00 PM.

 

25, 26, 27, 28, 29 = 5 days minus some hours of full NC.

 

Almost 4 years now of LDR.

[jennie-jennie]

It didn't fit the road the thread was taking, so I decided against putting it in here. But since you did, I will respond.

 

It doesn't sound like you had a realistic expectation of what "working on his marriage" actually entailed. If you had this view, why even encourage him to try the NC?

 

I feel that you have falsely accused me of misinterpretting your desires for NC. It doesn't seem like you ever expected him to truly work on his marriage if you threw this monkey wrench into his ability to do so. A marriage without sex isn't going to make anyone want to stay, if they actually want sex, that is.

 

Of course once he insisted on NC, I hoped NC would do what it did, make him realize that he could not do without me. That is what he set out to do in the first place: find out if he could live without me. He knew there is aspects I give him which his marriage does not. He wanted to know if he could do without those aspects.

 

I understand very well that working on marriage means having sex with your wife. That doesn't mean that I like it. I was more and more putting my head around counting him out of my life. I already set up a page on an internet dating site and also went on a date with a close friend of mine. I am sure he considers that cheating on him as well. Yet it is what we set each other up to do by going NC.

 

For sure he wanted to work on his sex life with his wife during NC, since the sexual compatabílity is a major issue in this triangular drama. I am pretty sure he never got that far. Not that I asked him, but my gut tells me from how tortured he was by NC that there was no room for sexual advances to his wife.

[jennie-jennie]

It seems to be setting him up either for failure with his wife or to have to lie to Jennie that he didn't cheat on her.

 

It is obvious you do not understand the dynamics of our relationship. Although I did not want to go NC nor did I want MM to have sex with his wife during NC, I am positive that he knew that he had my full support in doing what he needed to do. Since he needed to work on his marriage, he should do that to his full capacity, otherwise there would be no meaning. Now if that capacity turns out to be that he is only thinking of me and not having sex with his wife because he longs for me, so much the better.

 

My MM never lies to me period. Okay, he might say some innocent lie that I look good in a dress when I don't. You know, the everyday lies we all say. But if he had sex with his wife and I asked him about it, he would tell me. No matter how much it hurt me. He would probably not voluntarily give the information, but if asked he would not lie.

 

He has told me far more bothersome things than that he has had sex with his wife, so I don't get why a MM is always supposed to be lying about that. They can always hide behind the fact that they have to have sex with the wife so she will not get too suspicious, so no need to lie.

[jennie-jennie]

"My mistake in naming the thread. NC started September 23rd at 6.30 PM. I broke NC September 24th. NC restarted September 24th at 11.00 PM. Ended September 29th at 14.00 PM.

 

25, 26, 27, 28, 29 = 5 days minus some hours of full NC.

 

Almost 4 years now of LDR."

 

Ah, I am sleepy. This post should read:

 

My mistake in naming the thread. NC started September 23rd at 6.30 PM. I broke NC September 24th. NC restarted September 24th at 11.00 PM. Ended September 29th at 2.00 PM.

 

25, 26, 27, 28, 29 = 5 days minus some hours of full NC.

 

Almost 4 years now of LDR."

[moaningmyrtle]

It is obvious you do not understand the dynamics of our relationship. Although I did not want to go NC nor did I want MM to have sex with his wife during NC, I am positive that he knew that he had my full support in doing what he needed to do. Since he needed to work on his marriage, he should do that to his full capacity, otherwise there would be no meaning. Now if that capacity turns out to be that he is only thinking of me and not having sex with his wife because he longs for me, so much the better.

 

My MM never lies to me period. Okay he might say some innocent lie that I look good in a dress when I don't. You know, the everyday lies we all say. But if he had sex with his wife and I asked him about it, he would tell me. No matter how much it hurt me. He would probably not voluntarily give the information, but if asked he would not lie.

 

He has told me far more bothersome things than that he has had sex with his wife, so I don't get why a MM is always supposed to be lying about that. They can always hide behind the fact that they have to have sex with the wife so she will not get too suspicious, so no need to lie.

 

My comment was made only because you had said you'd told him you would consider it "cheating" if he had sex with his wife. You are probably correct that I didn't properly understand that it is in fact acceptable to you if he cheats in that way (while working on the marriage) and that therefore he would not need to lie to you; and could admit that he cheated.

 

It seems strange to me that even in a A, an OW can (hypothetically because you say he didn't actaully do the deed) accept something that she herself considers to be cheating.

 

However the elephant in the room here is that this particular MM is completely non-genuine and non-sincere when he says he wants to work on the marriage. If he did want to work on it then he could put in a much better effort than he has.

[jennie-jennie]

My comment was made only because you had said you'd told him you would consider it "cheating" if he had sex with his wife. You are probably correct that I didn't properly understand that it is in fact acceptable to you if he cheats in that way (while working on the marriage) and that therefore he would not need to lie to you; and could admit that he cheated.

 

It seems strange to me that even in a A, an OW can (hypothetically because you say he didn't actaully do the deed) accept something that she herself considers to be cheating.

 

However the elephant in the room here is that this particular MM is completely non-genuine and non-sincere when he says he wants to work on the marriage. If he did want to work on it then he could put in a much better effort than he has.

 

Unfortunately it is part of being an OW that we are often forced to accept what we consider cheating.

 

I believe my MM was completely genuine and sincere when he said he wanted to work on the marriage. He just did not realize he is past the state where that is a possibility. My adult daughter's comment to NC was that it is ridiculous that he should work on his marriage when he emotionally left his wife four years ago. I believe she is right. He just did not realize that.

 

He needed for his kids' and his wife's and his own sake to find out if he could work on his marriage. I believe he now knows that he can't.

[moaningmyrtle]

Unfortunately it is part of being an OW that we are often forced to accept what we consider cheating.

 

I believe my MM was completely genuine and sincere when he said he wanted to work on the marriage. He just did not realize he is past the state where that is a possibility. My adult daughter's comment to NC was that it is ridiculous that he should work on his marriage when he emotionally left his wife four years ago. I believe she is right. He just did not realize that.

 

He needed for his kids' and his wife's and his own sake to find out if he could work on his marriage. I believe he now knows that he can't.

 

OK I understand.

 

So back to an earlier question I asked - what is going to happen now - is he going to leave his wife or does he plan to just continue having an A with you? If the latter are you going to participate? I realise it's early days and you may not yet know the answer to this.

[jennie-jennie]

OK I understand.

 

So back to an earlier question I asked - what is going to happen now - is he going to leave his wife or does he plan to just continue having an A with you? If the latter are you going to participate? I realise it's early days and you may not yet know the answer to this.

 

It is early days. This is the SMS I sent him. Then we had a discussion from there.

 

"You do understand that it is not okay to go back to how it was before NC. We have to find our way forward from here. Work on the marriage is out of the question now as far as I am concerned."

 

As I said earlier I think it is reasonable we concentrate on spending more time together before he takes the actual leap. A change in his mind set is a major step in the right direction. Realize the question in his mind has now changed from "Can I live without Jennie?" to "Can I live without my wife?"

[moaningmyrtle]

It is early days. This is the SMS I sent him. Then we had a discussion from there.

 

"You do understand that it is not okay to go back to how it was before NC. We have to find our way forward from here. Work on the marriage is out of the question now as far as I am concerned."

 

As I said earlier I think it is reasonable we concentrate on spending more time together before he takes the actual leap. A change in his mind set is a major step in the right direction. Realize the question in his mind has now changed from "Can I live without you?" to "Can I live without my wife?"

 

Assuming that going back to what was before is not okay with you, then you are doing the right thing. However for your own sanity you perhaps ought to understand that merely changing the question in his mind without some action is not going to be sufficient. It's only my opinion but the longer (in time) you allow him to prevaricate and change questions and consider the different issues and implications then the longer (in time) it will take. You have given him 4 years - isn't that enough?

 

I honestly sense someone who will just delay and delay - continually shifting the goal posts leaving you not knowing what is going on or exactly where he is in his thinking. Even though you may not agree with me just give it some thought. Of course you know the situation and I don't but just remember the saying "cannot see the wood for the trees" - or maybe it's the other way around. I forget.

[MistyK]

 

He needed for his kids' and his wife's and his own sake to find out if he could work on his marriage. I believe he now knows that he can't.

 

The trouble is not wanting to work on the marriage does not translate into leaving it. Evidently both he and the W are content to leave their marriage in its current dilapidated state. So, it may just mean that he will stay in a less than fulfilling marriage and is just giving up on making it better because he sees that it's not possible to get better.

 

As far as sex with his wife and hiding behind needing to do that to keep suspicions at bay - I call BS on that. Personally, I would wonder how some guy who doesn't want to have sex with his wife could even get it up for her. So evidently, he wants it. Secondly, keeping her suspicions at bay isn't a good reason. That doesn't make it ok. Maybe you want to go screw someone else because you don't have enough frequency due to the LDR - also a purely utilitarian thing - but I'm guessing he's not ok with that.

 

He has made a choice, and he's chosen what every MM chooses - BOTH. Your MM has refined fence sitting into a fine art. And that totally sucks for you. What is so hard to live without if he "knows" his marriage can't improve? History, money, 24 hour access to the kids? None of that implies a day-to-day relationship with her that he can't live without, so he'd just be using her for what she represents. Do you want to be with someone who's ok with doing this to someone else? It sounds like he really needs IC badly.

[Impudent Oyster]

My mistake in naming the thread. NC started September 23rd at 6.30 PM. I broke NC September 24th. NC restarted September 24th at 11.00 PM. Ended September 29th at 14.00 PM.

 

25, 26, 27, 28, 29 = 5 days minus some hours of full NC.

 

Almost 4 years now of LDR.

 

Okay, I think I'm getting the gist. Just how long distance are you? What's the longest amount of time you two have spent together?

 

I'm all for AP's realizing that they are truly in love and going NC until the MP cleans up his mess (in other words, gets divorced for the right reasons and comes to you free and clear).

 

I'm just wondering if you two have truly spent enough time together in a real relationship to consider a future?

 

Of course, all of that is moot until he is divorced. If I were you I would be wondering if that is what he really wants, and the only way to know is for you to be completely NC so he can concentrate on his marriage and whether he wants to continue in it.

 

Right now you're his safety net. Most men don't like to be alone. You don't want him to leave his marriage because he has a back-up partner, you want him to leave his marriage because he doesn't love his wife and doesn't want to be married to her any longer.

 

Only then can you begin to plan a future honestly and without doubt.

[Impudent Oyster]

Assuming that going back to what was before is not okay with you, then you are doing the right thing. However for your own sanity you perhaps ought to understand that merely changing the question in his mind without some action is not going to be sufficient. ......

 

I honestly sense someone who will just delay and delay - continually shifting the goal posts leaving you not knowing what is going on or exactly where he is in his thinking. .

 

Agree. He's sitting on the fence because Jennie is allowing him too.

[Impudent Oyster]

It is early days. This is the SMS I sent him. .

As I said earlier I think it is reasonable we concentrate on spending more time together before he takes the actual leap. A change in his mind set is a major step in the right direction. Realize the question in his mind has now changed from "Can I live without Jennie?" to "Can I live without my wife?"

 

NO! You're just giving him more and more leeway!

 

He told you he changed his mind but what has he DONE to show you? He's still married, he's still living with his wife, NOTHING has changed. Don't you see that?

 

You should tell him not to contact you until he has moved out of his house. Only then should you consider "spending more time together".

 

This guy is grasping at straws, saying whatever he thinks will keep you right where he wants you. Hidden and available at his beck and call.

[Devil Inside]

I wonder about the "loving and attentive" part. I don't believe my MM got that far. His own comment was that he was not "doing so well on the marriage thing". "All that has changed is I am home more."

 

A very interesting comment he made is that what he really would need now is to go NC with his wife. He knows now he cannot do without me. Can he do without his wife? Is that why some MM leave their wife only to go straight back to her? was his question, because in going NC with their wife they realize they can not live without her.

 

I believe he is on to something here. His need is not to go NC with me, because now he knows how that feels. His need is to go NC with his wife, but unfortunately society does not allow him that. Not without taking the step into separation and divorce. It is not like his wife would be as tolerant and cooperative as I have been to the idea of NC, and for good reasons.

 

So I don't know how we progress from here. We both agree that we do not want to simply go back to where we were. Our original plan was to spend more time together because we are in a long distance relationship and then next summer do this NC/work on marriage thing. Now our plans were changed because I pressed on us doing the NC right away. So we both agree that work on marriage is out of the picture. That is not going to happen unless he and I split up. I suggested we concentrate on spending more time together and then at one point he will have to take the leap.

 

It IS scary that we might just be back into the EMR and limbo. But all we can do is try to learn from the NC and go from here. I don't believe additional NC would have moved us closer to a solution, only added to the pain.

 

His anxiety concerns leaving the life he knows in which he lives fulltime with his children. How would he find out more about how he would manage to handle that by being in NC with me?

 

Maybe removing himself from the triangle completely would help. By that I mean NC from you and separation from his wife. That way he will see what he can tolerate.

 

This all seems so torturous Jennie...how are you? I know you are back in contact...but it must still be hard.

[ladydesigner]

(((jennie))) oh this would be so hard for me if I were in your shoes. I am 1 month NC and it is still killing me. I just keep hoping that the intensity of my pain begins to lessen. Some days go okay and I feel like I can live without my xOM and other days I feel like contacting him. It is so freakin hard. I feel empty all the time like something is missing. My kids help distract my thoughts as when I am with them I tend not to think of xOM, but the rest of the time it hurts. Now I am at a point where I keep wondering if he is even thinking of me or that he could care less that we are in NC. I know it shouldn't matter one way or another, but this is what goes through my mind. NC is hard, LC is worse. What to do now??? I hate this I want to forget him and I just cannot.

 

I don't want to be here a year from now.