if you know he's married why start a relationship?

[Leia]

I guess I am of a very small minority -- when I was with a MM, i DID feel guilty. I felt guilty for continuing to see her husband. I felt guilty for the feelings I developed. I felt guilty for hurting her.

 

Ultimately, I do believe that the MM was WAY more out of line/to blame/should be held responsible; but I knew he was married (although like so many, he lied and said he was separated).

 

I have a hard time with how so many OW blame the wife -- she didn't do this, she didn't do that. They fail to see how maybe either she has no idea the marriage is so horrible or that maybe she was neglecting her spouse. So many OW jump on the fact that the wife may be busy with career, raising children, activities, etc and LOVE to blame the wife for the husband cheating (if she put out more, if she was more attentive, if she communicated more, if she didn't nag so much, if she was more physically fit, etc). It makes me at how much the OW blame the wife for the man for sneaking around, for lying etc. And it is these same wives who have such a strong hold on these men that he just can't give up all that horrible treatment to be with the OW -- oh that's right, he is staying for the kids

 

Unless the OW is living in the house since the start of the marriage, she has NO idea what has transpired in the marriage. She has no idea if the MM has been abusive, dismissive, uninterested, has erectile dysfunction with the wife, has nasty temper tantrums, has disgusting hygiene habits, etc to maybe, just maybe make the wife in turn be dismissive, disinterested, etc.

 

It takes two to really keep a marriage healthy; but it can only take 1 to tear a marriage apart.

 

I missed this post! Be glad that you're not like most of the OW, FO. You have a heart.

[ForumFool]

2009 First I want to say I am really sorry for your pain. Next I just wanted to point out that Fooled Once and Thaddeus are spot on with what they posted in here nobody could say it better. Please read those. Myself I know a lot of women that do not and would not act on their feelings. Some ow/om are just pathetic and believe anything they want to hear..in fact a few have been tossed under the bus and still state that the man really loved them ....self esteem issues and delusions. I honestly find it sad.

[moaningmyrtle]

I am not running over someone else...MM is. As everyone here says so very often I'm not in the middle of their marriage (as in living in the house)...I have no idea if he's lying to me, but I have no idea he isn't. I take the point of view that I trust what he says until there's something that tells me not to. I don't automatically respect someone I don't know...if I walk down the street and see a woman walking towards me I certainly owe her no respect at all. If she becomes part of my life and earns it, fair enough.

 

It's not my job to respect and protect the W...it's his.

 

Isn't it a triangle with the MM, OW and BW and not the OW somehow in the middle - after all most don't live in the house as Mizfit points out?

 

Surely if it is a triangle then all 3 are somehow part of each other's lives and that means the OW is part of the BWs life and vice versa. I know there are some OW who feel they really do owe it to the BW to minimize the hurt caused to her. Not all are so callous as to feel that the BW somehow has to earn the OW's respect.

[skylarblue]

Although I'm single and seeing a MM currently, I never understood why single women choose to get into a romantic, emotional relationship with a MM either. When I date a MM it's because I don't want a relationship. First, I would never want to share someone I loved with another person. Second, I could never trust him if he was cheating with me while he was married. He's already shown his potential to disregard what is supposed to be a committed relationship. Even if I was already in love with him before he disclosed he was married, that would be the deal breaker between us.

As far as the feelings of the W or breaking up a family, screw that. I'm not the one who made vows to be anything to anyone. It's not my responsibility to police his marriage and values. Besides, she chose him. Maybe, the W should take some responsibility in her own marital problems and try to understand why her H cheated than why a woman would cheat with him.

[Dexter Morgan]

Why should marriage mean more to a single, uncontracted OW than it does to someone who's ensnared in its grasp? Why should someone who is not M respect the institution of M?

 

or geez, for that matter, why should they respect anything or anyone else?

 

 

IMO, I'm free to hit on anyone I please - and they're free to respond in any way they see fit (within the law). I weigh up the consequences when I make my decision to act or not.

 

well maybe one of these days you'll try to bed down the man of a female MMA fighter:cool:

[donnamaybe]

What comes to mind reading this thread is the old saying that begins "Do unto others..." We all know how it goes and its meaning. Some folks, however, only want people to "do unto" when it means something good will come their way. They forget that the "doing unto" needs to flow in both directions.

[bentnotbroken]

Although I'm single and seeing a MM currently, I never understood why single women choose to get into a romantic, emotional relationship with a MM either. When I date a MM it's because I don't want a relationship. First, I would never want to share someone I loved with another person. Second, I could never trust him if he was cheating with me while he was married. He's already shown his potential to disregard what is supposed to be a committed relationship. Even if I was already in love with him before he disclosed he was married, that would be the deal breaker between us.

As far as the feelings of the W or breaking up a family, screw that. I'm not the one who made vows to be anything to anyone. It's not my responsibility to police his marriage and values. Besides, she chose him. Maybe, the W should take some responsibility in her own marital problems and try to understand why her H cheated than why a woman would cheat with him.[/QUOTE]

 

 

There are lots of excuses and justifications why some(man or woman)would cheat, but only one real reason.....lack of good coping skills and the maturity to make wiser choices that don't involve emotionally abusing someone else and their life. As for why a single person would be with a MP, I am thinking about someday doing a study on that.

[IfWishesWereHorses]

I will honestly NEVER understand the, "I don't know him/her, don't owe them anything" line of thinking.

 

Everyday EACH of us rely on the good sense of strangers. Normal people don't knowingly put other peoples lives, happiness, well being at stake just to do whatever the heck THEY want. Its antisocial. Surely there are varying degrees but it speaks volumes about people who do those things. Idiots who spit gum out in parking lots, leave fish hooks on the beach, drive without headlights, send sick children to school, drive with failing brakes, let viscious animal run the neighborhood. No, these people don't OWE the rest of us anything, but something is inherently wrong with them nonetheless. They are also the first ones to call foul when they feel put upon.

 

We all know right from wrong. Implying you are exempt because someone else made the decision to betray their spouse doesn't change for one minute the fact that what you are doing is hurtful and wrong. Why the heck would it matter what your relationship to the mistreated person is?

 

Daily I try to ensure that my children develop integrity and moral values. If I heard such BS come from either of their mouths I'ld rock their world so fast they wouldn't know what had happened to them. I'm constantly amazed by the gall of some people.

[jj33]

Why is this thread not in the infidelity forum? It is not supportive in the least of people who in an affair.

[2sure]

Justifying dating a MM/MW is no different than justifying stealing from your office, vandalizing public property, not giving to charity, being mean to old people...

 

We could ALL do those things. We just dont. Usually. But if we do, we justify it somehow.

 

I mean, do what you feel you want to do...but why justify it? Its wrong, you know it, and you do it anyway. Own it for what it is.

[IfWishesWereHorses]

Why is this thread not in the infidelity forum? It is not supportive in the least of people who in an affair.

 

God forbid!

 

im not posting this for sympathy or to make any1 feel bad, i just want to understand

 

I believe she is trying to understand WHY someone would intrude upon her marriage. Seeing as how the infidelity forum is for BS's and WS, this must have seem like the logical place to find the answer.

[2sure]

That being said...if a spouse is inclined to infidelity...it didnt happen because of any particular OW/OM. There are plenty of people who dont mind kicking others, especially anonymously.

[carhill]

2sure, I agree with you. It's how one acts when people aren't looking that defines one.

 

That said, think about how society perceives your H. You know him in one way; society in another. I'll bet, if he died tomorrow, his funeral would be well attended and people would expound upon what a great, generous and loving man he was.

 

In contrast, my father, a man who was faithful, generous to the community in a quiet way, as well as being a great dad, had maybe 30 people at his funeral. He personified things posters here talk about; integrity, honesty, decency, but, really, society doesn't value those things. I've seen the same in my life. My funeral would be exactly the same.

 

Look around. See what society values. See what message they send. There's a reason things happen the way they do. That message is why people don't care, in this case, about the MP spouse. I wish it were different...

[2sure]

Hey - I have had multiple affairs with MM. I did it because I wanted to.

I knew it wasnt right, I never once justified it in anyway. I'm not judging anyone personally, we are not under real obligation to live up to anyone else's standards. But if you are going to do something you know is wrong...usually the only justification is : I dont care.

 

And as far as that goes, its as good as any other excuse and more honest.

 

The responsibility and protection of the marriage just isnt something you can put on any other person. I can be angry with OW for interfering in MY personal life anonymously but not for wrecking the marriage.

[boldjack]

2009, The bottom line is that Ow/Om's who willingly enter relationships with married people, are true Narcissists, (as are the Mp's they are having the affair with).. They rationalize their acts, and think only of themselves, and their needs/wants. These people (and I used to be one) have little or no integrity or honor, and frequently use the affair as an ego boost, or for financial gain. . That said, they are usually to be pitied, because they will rarely ever have a meaningful or lasting love, and usually are filled with self-doubt and anxiety. You seem to be an honest and loving person, you shoud stop worrying about the cheaters, and think of your own situation. I hope that you will find somebody with the same values that you have.

[MistyK]

I will honestly NEVER understand the, "I don't know him/her, don't owe them anything" line of thinking.

 

Everyday EACH of us rely on the good sense of strangers. Normal people don't knowingly put other peoples lives, happiness, well being at stake just to do whatever the heck THEY want. Its antisocial.

 

So can I assume that everyone here (particularly the BS's) is vegan, buys only free-trade products and doesn't own any precious gems?

 

Yeah, that's what I thought. Plenty of "normal" people do things everyday, knowing full well that it negatively impacts other people and don't care. Sure, we all to believe that hurting another woman by having an affair with her H is worse because she's geographically or seemingly "closer" to us than the people getting killed to bring you your Folgers, but really, it's the same. You don't care about people you don't know. So honestly, the tirades here about narcissim and sociopathic traits in OW's is both hypocritical and total crap. Get. Off. The. High. Horse.

[MistyK]

2009, The bottom line is that Ow/Om's who willingly enter relationships with married people, are true Narcissists, (as are the Mp's they are having the affair with).. They rationalize their acts, and think only of themselves, and their needs/wants. These people (and I used to be one) have little or no integrity or honor, and frequently use the affair as an ego boost, or for financial gain. .

 

By pure definition, Narcissistic personality disorder is just that - a personality disorder that one doesn't recover from. You can't be one if aren't one anymore. So I guess you're still a total narcissist, who at best has learned to lessen their selfish behaviors. Or, alternatively, you weren't ever one at all. What do you really think?

[Thaddeus]

2009, The bottom line is that Ow/Om's who willingly enter relationships with married people, are true Narcissists, (as are the Mp's they are having the affair with).. They rationalize their acts, and think only of themselves, and their needs/wants. These people (and I used to be one) have little or no integrity or honor, and frequently use the affair as an ego boost, or for financial gain. . That said, they are usually to be pitied, because they will rarely ever have a meaningful or lasting love, and usually are filled with self-doubt and anxiety. You seem to be an honest and loving person, you shoud stop worrying about the cheaters, and think of your own situation. I hope that you will find somebody with the same values that you have.

This pretty much mirrors what I mentioned earlier.

 

There are legions of OMs and OWs who will insist to their dying day that they are not the ones that "have to be good" because they're not the ones who are in a committed relationship, but the fact remains that they make a conscious decision to involve themselves with someone who is committed. And that smacks of complete self-absorption.

 

Here's an example:

You don't care about people you don't know... Get. Off. The. High. Horse.

Taken to it's logical conclusion, that would also mean driving drunk and putting other people in danger is perfectly acceptable because you don't know them, therefore it's not relevant whether they suffer as a result.

 

Total. Self. Absorption.

[boldjack]

That's an interesting question, Misty. I won't TJ so I'll PM yoiu to talk.

[donnamaybe]

So can I assume that everyone here (particularly the BS's) is vegan, buys only free-trade products and doesn't own any precious gems?

 

Yeah, that's what I thought. Plenty of "normal" people do things everyday, knowing full well that it negatively impacts other people and don't care. Sure, we all to believe that hurting another woman by having an affair with her H is worse because she's geographically or seemingly "closer" to us than the people getting killed to bring you your Folgers, but really, it's the same. You don't care about people you don't know. So honestly, the tirades here about narcissim and sociopathic traits in OW's is both hypocritical and total crap. Get. Off. The. High. Horse.

 

I'm sorry, but I just read a post in this thread that basically said, "I don't give a flyin' rat's arse about anybody but myself." You are SO trying to compare apples to oranges when you try to compare someone who doesn't eat a vegan diet to someone who says, "Who cares about the spouse? I'm gonna get mine and to hell with anyone else."

 

That's not saying every AP has that attitude. I've seen plenty of people on here who do feel a sense of guilt for the BS in the triangle.

[Leia]

This pretty much mirrors what I mentioned earlier.

 

There are legions of OMs and OWs who will insist to their dying day that they are not the ones that "have to be good" because they're not the ones who are in a committed relationship, but the fact remains that they make a conscious decision to involve themselves with someone who is committed. And that smacks of complete self-absorption.

 

Exactly. I don't think they 'get' that though. As some have mentioned earlier, they are justifying their actions and are not ashamed at all.

 

I do feel for those OW who are remorsed and feel bad about what they did. That says a lot about the type of people they are.

[IfWishesWereHorses]

So can I assume that everyone here (particularly the BS's) is vegan, buys only free-trade products and doesn't own any precious gems?

 

Yeah, that's what I thought. Plenty of "normal" people do things everyday, knowing full well that it negatively impacts other people and don't care. Sure, we all to believe that hurting another woman by having an affair with her H is worse because she's geographically or seemingly "closer" to us than the people getting killed to bring you your Folgers, but really, it's the same. You don't care about people you don't know. So honestly, the tirades here about narcissim and sociopathic traits in OW's is both hypocritical and total crap. Get. Off. The. High. Horse.

 

Its a personal belief system Misty, I certainly don't consider myself to be on a "high horse" perhaps its your vantage point that makes it appear that way to you.

 

Certainly anyone can attest to having some type of personal accountabilty. I mean, something, you absolutely consider wrong. Knowingly engaging in acts that can be detrimental to someone is wrong to me. What brought the OP here is a question that brings MANY BS's here. What kind of woman would do that? Its a fair question Misty, if you don't like the answers or what they imply, that's your problem.

 

Also, there is a big difference in claiming someone is acting in a nacissitic manner and someone having full blown NPD. I never mention NPD or narcissism in my post. I said it was antisocial to act in a way that was damaging to others.

[MistyK]

Here's an example:Taken to it's logical conclusion, that would also mean driving drunk and putting other people in danger is perfectly acceptable because you don't know them, therefore it's not relevant whether they suffer as a result.

 

Total. Self. Absorption.

 

You missed my point. Have YOU ever driven drunk? Ever bought a diamond? Then you've hurt someone you don't know, or at least engaged in behaviors that made it more likely. So why are you better than OP's?

[Thaddeus]

Have YOU ever driven drunk?

No.

Ever bought a diamond?

Yes, before I knew what conflict diamonds were all about. I know better now.

 

I understand your point perfectly. And I stand by my assertion.

[donnamaybe]

You missed my point. Have YOU ever driven drunk? Ever bought a diamond? Then you've hurt someone you don't know, or at least engaged in behaviors that made it more likely. So why are you better than OP's?

 

Do YOU live in a house while thousands across the ocean have nothing to eat and nowhere to live?

 

You're grasping at straws, Misty. There's a WORLD of difference, and you know it.