More than just friends, less than lovers

[JamesJustice]

Firstly, a brief introduction from my side. I'm James, 21 years of age and I work in IT. English isn't my native language so please forgive me silly spelling and grammatical mistakes. I am labeled a friendly, smart, guy and I am considered to helpful and trustworthy. I am not people shy, in fact I love conversing with people, yet I have always been a person with few friends, and some acquaintances. Most of the people whom I consider friends are people I have met online and I have met most of them in real life. Also, until recently I was convinced I would be able to love anyone from the bottom of my heart...

 

Naturally, that is where my problem starts. I have never lacked any attention from girls and woman. But all of them never suited my taste. (I sound like a douchebag saying that) So recently I started talking to a coworker, who is now no longer a coworker due to the fact I work on different projects, whom I had a slight interest in, for the first time in my life. We chatted a bit at work and as soon as I moved out from my parents I jokingly invited her over. Hoping she would say yes. My wish was granted and I was baffled when she said yes. A day before she were to come over she said she couldn't come and I was certain she would make up excuses to not come over until I'd forget about it. The next saturday however he asked if she could come over the next day; I was filled with a feeling of almost unnatural joy. We talked for 3 hours the next day and when she left I couldn't believe I talked to a girl for 3 hours without boring her. She would come over many more times and it all involved more talking. Around her I feel comfortable and happy. I experienced a lot of things with her for the first time such as hugging. Yes; I am 21 and didn't hug anyone until 1 month ago. She's also the first girl whom I asked out for dinner and she's the first girl whom I went to see movies with. The 6th time she came over to my place I dared to place my arm behind her on the couch. To my surprise she didn't mind and she actually came sitting closer to me. I touched her small, frail shoulder and shuddered when I felt how soft women are. The following dates she'd sit closer and closer to me to the point where we started hugging. She has said to me many times that she likes to be around me, and can't imagine living without me anymore. I have always been a guy that wanted to travel around the world and live a hectic life abroad in many cities of the world. However when I imagine myself being with her I can honestly say I wouldn't mind where in this planet I am... as long as I am with her. The default family life with her sounds perfect for me.

 

So as we met more and more I felt a deep attraction to her; combined with her words of how much she'd like me I was hoping this would become my first, and hopefully forever lasting relationship with a woman. One night during our SMS sessions I told her I wanted to tell her something important. Since she's impatient she insisted that I'd tell her via text as she wanted to know. I told her that I started liking her and how I hoped we could take our friendship to the next level. She replied to me that I had been interpreting her signals in a wrong way and that she doesn't have any feelings for me besides friendship. Oh... and the whole "I can't live without you" feeling as well but she claims it's not love. Since she had 2 relationships before me where she was ditched by both guys I take her word for it as she's more experienced as me. However; she has lost a lot of friends as well who just "gave up" on her, has problems with her parents, and on top of that she has been fired a lot of times at work. I know she doesn't sound like a very lovable person but please take my word for it that this woman is very very very lovable. For me anyway; and that is what counts. I feel that you need to have patience with this woman and if there is anything I have then it's patience. Anyway... i texted her back that I understood her and that I hoped this wouldn't change things. In fact it didn't and she came over many more times.

 

Before I knew it I was feeling what people would call "butterflies" for the first time in my life. I was, and still am, honestly loving this person for who she was and is. A few dates later I broke into tears as we were watching a love movie on TV. She asked me what was wrong and I fessed up my love for her. A compassionate hug followed and she said again that she doesn't love me and that she can't be more than a good friend. This is now about one month ago and we have been dating for... let's say 3 months in total. Right now we're being "friends" to the extend where we both lay down on my couch; where she places my hand on her soft belly and I just fall asleep like that. And every time I tell her how much I like her she tells me how sweet i am.

 

She's 26, lives with her parents so she comes over to my place all the time. about 3 times a week on average. One time when it was getting really late she said she'd drive home but was really tired. I offered to drive with her home, on the passenger seat as i have no drivers license... although I am busy learning for my drivers license so I can drive to her. Yes, I love her that much.... so anyway I somewhat drove her home, then spend 2 hours at 04am trying to get home. In the end I called a cab. I was raised with (not by) pets and dearly miss them since I started living on my own. Sadly enough she is allergic for animal hairs so I decided to drop the idea of buying a little fuzzbucket. I pay for the movie tickets; cook for her; pay for our dinners; spend countless of hours in PT to see her; place her above everything else and listen to her. I spend a lot of time in her and trying to understand her better. Including reading about her culture and learning about the skin disease she's fighting.

 

She listens to me as well, and is a very sweet person. I never lied to her and I know she never lied to me as well. I feel that we are ment to be together since things just feel right. However; she keeps her distance from me by saying that she doesn't love me and most probably never will. She gives off so many hints that creates doubt with me whether she will love me or not. We easily discuss marriage together. She is considering moving in with me, and when I asked her what she would do if I asked her to marry me she said she'd say "yes" depending on how I asked it. She says she is looking forward to spending new years and Christmas with me as she says this will prove I will not abandon on her like those people before me did.

 

As you hopefully figured out by now; I am deeply in love with this woman. This woman who says she can't live without me any more, wants to be with me all the time, and has told me everything there is to know about her life. Yet... she says she doesn't love me. She feels things for me or so she says; but she says she doesn't know what these feelings are.

 

I told her it's okay and that we'll both have to do our best to figure out what these feelings are. And that is something I honestly wish to do. I want to be with her for a very long time; preferably until i die. However since relationships work somewhat different I know that I will lose that intimate contact we have if she falls in love with someone. After all; we're not in a relationship and she is allowed to fall in love with anyone she wants. (Of course; I hope it's me)

 

So my problem is; what the hell should I do. I am emotionally torn apart as everything I used to believe in has been demolished by this girl. Just by being herself. She means a lot to me and I do not wish to lose her. I do know however that despite the fact I have tons of patience; it has a limit. It's not reached and won't be reached for a long time...

 

Or perhaps I just want to know what she is feeling. Could she be feeling love but is she fighting it as she's afraid that I will abandon her? If so how can I make her realize that the only true way to guarantee this friendship we have is by taking it to a next level. If you'd see us cuddling on the couch; in bed (no sex or kissing!); at the movies; or just on the streets you'd be sure we'd have a very happy love relationship. An old woman whom I offered my seat in PT even said we looked like such a happy couple. Her parents think we're having a love relationship, and even I think at times we have a love relationship.

 

I have no experience in love; I don't know why I am feeling this but I know that she makes me the happiest man on earth just by being there for me.

 

I don't want to drop her; I don't want to abandon her; but I also don't want to spend my life chasing a relationship that will never happen.

 

I am clueless... deeply in love... and clueless. Should I wait? Should I put pressure on her? Should I ignore her? Should I stop with this all and live with the fact that the only girl whom I have loved is now a psychological wreck who gave up on mankind?

 

HELP!

 

~James

 

p.s: Sorry for writing such a boring long post.

[Yukikazi]

Dude.. I registered just to reply to this... I state as I see it.. nothing personal.. But you are being a chump led around by hopes of getting a nibble on the carrot that's not even in front of your face. You like her.. gotcha You love her.. again.. gotcha But dude.. She DOES NOT love you nor will she ever. You are on the friend ladder and you wont be getting off... pun intended. The link here is for whats generally referred to as a comedy news source.. but this particular article just screams your name. Read it and think about it... What does she have to gain by suddenly giving in to you.. you already pay like a bf.. why should she let you play like one when she can find a better man that doesn't kiss the ground she walks on like a chump. Think about it.. what do YOU get out of the relationship other then the occasional chubby w/o relief and no action whatsoever? She gets you dottering on her hand and foot but none of the relationship or sex... she can save that for a real man when he comes along.. quite content in the knowledge that you will always be there to buy her stuff and give her attention.. and she doesn't have to give you.. anything... http://www.theonion.com/content/opinion/but_if_we_started_dating_it

[New_Life08]

If she allows you to get close to her ...KNOWING you care so much for her, then says she doesn't love you and continues this cat and mouse game; you should not waste your time hoping against hope that she will come around.

 

The only way to find out how she truly feels is to leave her to herself. If she comes to you, don't except less than what you need from her. If the games continue, you need to move on. Someone somewhere is out there waiting to give you the love you deserve, life is too short to be the string along.

 

Good luck to you, I hope everything works out the way it is meant to be.

[unclarity]

oh gosh, i have almost the same thing happening with me... but he is my ex boyfriend and now he has a new girlfriend, but still keeps giving me these weird signs... i dunno what to tell you cause i know it isnt as easy to just give her up as you wanted to, so all i can say is take it slow and try to find in someone else what she cant give you. keep being honest to her but most importantly, keep being honest to urself!

 

good luck

[allin]

Is it possible that this woman will not tell you she loves you because she is not ready to jump into an intimate relationship, and she feels that's where it will go as soon as she says she loves you?

Is it possible that she is confused about how she feels?

There is an age difference--she's five years older than you and in an age bracket where that might matter. Maybe that is also a concern?

And if she has abandonment issues, perhaps she is making sure you'll really be there?

Is it possible that you are not in love, but infatuated?

I agree with the other posters in that you should not accept less for yourself than you are worth. You should not allow anyone to treat you shabbily. Be kind to yourself, and her, by having an open conversation about this issue with one major difference--maintain your composure and ditch the drama. No crying. No making her feel bad. No throwing yourself at her feet or on her mercy. Just tell her how you honestly feel, and let her know that you can't continue unless there is a chance of her reciprocating. If she's saying she'd marry you, but that she doesn't love you, you need to question that. Ask for an explanation. That is such an odd dichotomy. Get to the bottom of it. And if the answer is that she does not now, and will never, love you, you will eventually have to find a way to move on.

I wish you much luck, love, and happiness.

 

Firstly, a brief introduction from my side. I'm James, 21 years of age and I work in IT. English isn't my native language so please forgive me silly spelling and grammatical mistakes. I am labeled a friendly, smart, guy and I am considered to helpful and trustworthy. I am not people shy, in fact I love conversing with people, yet I have always been a person with few friends, and some acquaintances. Most of the people whom I consider friends are people I have met online and I have met most of them in real life. Also, until recently I was convinced I would be able to love anyone from the bottom of my heart...

 

Naturally, that is where my problem starts. I have never lacked any attention from girls and woman. But all of them never suited my taste. (I sound like a douchebag saying that) So recently I started talking to a coworker, who is now no longer a coworker due to the fact I work on different projects, whom I had a slight interest in, for the first time in my life. We chatted a bit at work and as soon as I moved out from my parents I jokingly invited her over. Hoping she would say yes. My wish was granted and I was baffled when she said yes. A day before she were to come over she said she couldn't come and I was certain she would make up excuses to not come over until I'd forget about it. The next saturday however he asked if she could come over the next day; I was filled with a feeling of almost unnatural joy. We talked for 3 hours the next day and when she left I couldn't believe I talked to a girl for 3 hours without boring her. She would come over many more times and it all involved more talking. Around her I feel comfortable and happy. I experienced a lot of things with her for the first time such as hugging. Yes; I am 21 and didn't hug anyone until 1 month ago. She's also the first girl whom I asked out for dinner and she's the first girl whom I went to see movies with. The 6th time she came over to my place I dared to place my arm behind her on the couch. To my surprise she didn't mind and she actually came sitting closer to me. I touched her small, frail shoulder and shuddered when I felt how soft women are. The following dates she'd sit closer and closer to me to the point where we started hugging. She has said to me many times that she likes to be around me, and can't imagine living without me anymore. I have always been a guy that wanted to travel around the world and live a hectic life abroad in many cities of the world. However when I imagine myself being with her I can honestly say I wouldn't mind where in this planet I am... as long as I am with her. The default family life with her sounds perfect for me.

 

So as we met more and more I felt a deep attraction to her; combined with her words of how much she'd like me I was hoping this would become my first, and hopefully forever lasting relationship with a woman. One night during our SMS sessions I told her I wanted to tell her something important. Since she's impatient she insisted that I'd tell her via text as she wanted to know. I told her that I started liking her and how I hoped we could take our friendship to the next level. She replied to me that I had been interpreting her signals in a wrong way and that she doesn't have any feelings for me besides friendship. Oh... and the whole "I can't live without you" feeling as well but she claims it's not love. Since she had 2 relationships before me where she was ditched by both guys I take her word for it as she's more experienced as me. However; she has lost a lot of friends as well who just "gave up" on her, has problems with her parents, and on top of that she has been fired a lot of times at work. I know she doesn't sound like a very lovable person but please take my word for it that this woman is very very very lovable. For me anyway; and that is what counts. I feel that you need to have patience with this woman and if there is anything I have then it's patience. Anyway... i texted her back that I understood her and that I hoped this wouldn't change things. In fact it didn't and she came over many more times.

 

Before I knew it I was feeling what people would call "butterflies" for the first time in my life. I was, and still am, honestly loving this person for who she was and is. A few dates later I broke into tears as we were watching a love movie on TV. She asked me what was wrong and I fessed up my love for her. A compassionate hug followed and she said again that she doesn't love me and that she can't be more than a good friend. This is now about one month ago and we have been dating for... let's say 3 months in total. Right now we're being "friends" to the extend where we both lay down on my couch; where she places my hand on her soft belly and I just fall asleep like that. And every time I tell her how much I like her she tells me how sweet i am.

 

She's 26, lives with her parents so she comes over to my place all the time. about 3 times a week on average. One time when it was getting really late she said she'd drive home but was really tired. I offered to drive with her home, on the passenger seat as i have no drivers license... although I am busy learning for my drivers license so I can drive to her. Yes, I love her that much.... so anyway I somewhat drove her home, then spend 2 hours at 04am trying to get home. In the end I called a cab. I was raised with (not by) pets and dearly miss them since I started living on my own. Sadly enough she is allergic for animal hairs so I decided to drop the idea of buying a little fuzzbucket. I pay for the movie tickets; cook for her; pay for our dinners; spend countless of hours in PT to see her; place her above everything else and listen to her. I spend a lot of time in her and trying to understand her better. Including reading about her culture and learning about the skin disease she's fighting.

 

She listens to me as well, and is a very sweet person. I never lied to her and I know she never lied to me as well. I feel that we are ment to be together since things just feel right. However; she keeps her distance from me by saying that she doesn't love me and most probably never will. She gives off so many hints that creates doubt with me whether she will love me or not. We easily discuss marriage together. She is considering moving in with me, and when I asked her what she would do if I asked her to marry me she said she'd say "yes" depending on how I asked it. She says she is looking forward to spending new years and Christmas with me as she says this will prove I will not abandon on her like those people before me did.

 

As you hopefully figured out by now; I am deeply in love with this woman. This woman who says she can't live without me any more, wants to be with me all the time, and has told me everything there is to know about her life. Yet... she says she doesn't love me. She feels things for me or so she says; but she says she doesn't know what these feelings are.

 

I told her it's okay and that we'll both have to do our best to figure out what these feelings are. And that is something I honestly wish to do. I want to be with her for a very long time; preferably until i die. However since relationships work somewhat different I know that I will lose that intimate contact we have if she falls in love with someone. After all; we're not in a relationship and she is allowed to fall in love with anyone she wants. (Of course; I hope it's me)

 

So my problem is; what the hell should I do. I am emotionally torn apart as everything I used to believe in has been demolished by this girl. Just by being herself. She means a lot to me and I do not wish to lose her. I do know however that despite the fact I have tons of patience; it has a limit. It's not reached and won't be reached for a long time...

 

Or perhaps I just want to know what she is feeling. Could she be feeling love but is she fighting it as she's afraid that I will abandon her? If so how can I make her realize that the only true way to guarantee this friendship we have is by taking it to a next level. If you'd see us cuddling on the couch; in bed (no sex or kissing!); at the movies; or just on the streets you'd be sure we'd have a very happy love relationship. An old woman whom I offered my seat in PT even said we looked like such a happy couple. Her parents think we're having a love relationship, and even I think at times we have a love relationship.

 

I have no experience in love; I don't know why I am feeling this but I know that she makes me the happiest man on earth just by being there for me.

 

I don't want to drop her; I don't want to abandon her; but I also don't want to spend my life chasing a relationship that will never happen.

 

I am clueless... deeply in love... and clueless. Should I wait? Should I put pressure on her? Should I ignore her? Should I stop with this all and live with the fact that the only girl whom I have loved is now a psychological wreck who gave up on mankind?

 

HELP!

 

~James

 

p.s: Sorry for writing such a boring long post.

[michelle7]

Hello, James!

I agree with Allin on most points.

the fact that she is older might be intimidating to her. and the fact that it's your first relationship with a woman may make her think that your feeling for her are .... temporary ...

 

anyway. i was in a similar situation when i met my first love.

i had had 2-3 boyfriend before i met him. and i was so disappointed in guys - didn't want to date anyone ( and i didn't for 2 years). but with Him i felt sooo comfortable, so right, and so myself. i didn't feel that i needed to impress him ( and he liked me just the way i was). and i remember that I wanted to stay friends with him forever (just because being friends can be really a long term relationship, unlike being in a romantic relationship).

We would hug and hold hands, and sleep on the coach hugging each other.

i think those were the best times ever)).

but, he wanted more and i was not ready. he was pretty patient)) and i am glad he was. a few months later, i caught up with his feelings and was able to reciprocate

 

i think this girl must have had terrible experiences with previous boyfriends (my experiences weren't that terrible, but still i did't want to date for 2 years!), and so maybe she does not want to lose what you two share right now - special and intimate friendship.

what i would do if i were you, is ask her, why does she think she can never love you. that's what bothers me in this story((. she acts like person who is in love, said that she would marry you, but at the same time she is convinced that she does not and will not love you.((

 

talk to hear about it. It's probably something that's hard to reveal (for her), but you will know what to do going from there.

[JamesJustice]

Sorry for not replying, but I have been reading your replies and taken them into consideration. And so I would like to thank all of you for them.

 

I have talked to her about her feelings towards me, and bit by bit she is catching up with my feelings. I told her that I understand that she wants certainty and I've told her that if that requires me to continue the relationship the way it is for a little while I will manage.

 

But I also told her about my own feelings, and no matter how wrong it feels I don't want to follow a carrot on a stick for 5 years. She is a girl whom I desire to be with for a very very very long time. However the girl who I want to be with for the rest of my life should also understand that I have my own limits and that I need my share of happiness

 

We've been "dating" for 5, almost 6, months now and although we still don't hold hands in public, she is the very first girl to have kissed me. Hahaha. Hell, she even kissed me once in the cinema. It was quite an experience.

 

We agreed that we would continue our relationship and see how our feelings are going to evolve. Although it's not a walk in the park the pros outweigh the cons by far. I'm having the time of my life with her and I can't see this going wrong at all. But then again, love blinds doesn't it?

 

And in all honesty, if I'd have to wait 5 years to have a relationship with her for sure? I'd wait!

[boogieboy]

Women dont work that way bro. Once she told you that she doesnt love you and only sees you as a friend, and you follow her like a puppy, you fell into the friend zone, and the way youre acting , you will never get out. But she wont tell you that because she knows you will bail on her. She likes your company, thats it, and theres no way to turn it around. Right now, since she was dumped twice, shes satified with your friends relationship, because she cant get hurt this way, she doesnt care that its hurting you.

 

Women want to earn your affection, they dont want it all handed to them on a platter at once, and they dont want a guy who wears his heart on his sleeve. You, being inexperienced didnt know this. Real relationships dont work like they do in the movies. She has to feel like you dont want anything from her, she has to feel like she has to show you the best of her to make YOU like HER. Not the other way around.

 

SHe probably liked you at one time, but you showed her your heart too soon, and that turned her off. You being inexperienced and talking about it is also a turn off. She wants you to show her things. She wants you to be confident, regardless of how inexperienced you are. Also you turned her off by falling in love with her before she earned it, and also before she fell for you. She can never fall for you now because she knows yooure already there. This one is a lost cause.

 

Let this be a lesson to you, dont tell a girl you love her until she says it first, let her earn compliments, and your affection. If you keep doing what youre doing, the women will keep using you for friendship. You will keep turning them off. Being too nice and not making moves is wimpy behavior that they dont like. Some women will wait for you, but very few.

Edited December 5, 2009 by boogieboy

[JamesJustice]

@boogieboy

 

If there is one thing I learned in these 6 months than it is that you should follow your own heart. Don't follow cliches you see in movies or read in books. They're cliche for a reason. Don't refrain yourself from saying "I love you" just because someone else says it's too soon. Say "I love you" when you feel it's right.

 

Do what you feel is right. If you can't be yourself it's obviously not meant to be. In my case it helped to talk a lot. About everything. I talked to her about her fears, why she's saying what she is saying and why I am saying what I'm saying.

 

And it worked. I found out why she 'refuses' to call our relationship a "love" relationship and it had to do with a lot of fear. The fear of losing me and the fear that once we're in relationship things will change. Just like how it happened with her previous relationships. She has fessed up she has, and always had feelings for me, and that she's gradually expressing them. Something which I am noticing.

 

Yesterday was the first time we walked the streets hand-in-hand, and we're becoming more and more intimate by the day.

 

Thank you Loveshack for giving me advice, and for allowing me to vent off my frustrations in the form of a complicated story. It sure helped me trough the uncertain and difficult moments.

 

I wish everyone a good and healthy life, and I hope you find the love you all deserve. My relationship with her might not be forever: but I'll work hard to make it last for as long as we can. And forever doesn't seem like an impossible thing to me.

[Denamarie]

Your story was so sad that I couldn't even finish reading it!

 

Your friend is using you, but I believe she feels it may be ok because it makes you both happy. - even if this is leading you on.

 

this may also be feeding into her love language...although she doesn't love you- being showered with gifts and attention is something that probably makes her feel special and she may not get this very often from people.

 

I have been to so many seminars based on professional vs personal on where to draw the line on your personal life in your professional world. I think they need something like this for romantic vs friendship. I feel like some people just don't know when to stop. I had a guy friend that would always touch me, tell me how pretty I was and want to hang out and I seriously thought he liked me but one day I over heard him telling someone that he wasn't interested in me at all and that I was "like his best buddy" I mean unless the guy was bi sexual I don't think he would call his "best buddy" pretty or try to hold his hand.

[JamesJustice]

Well, the case is closed.

 

We've made the step from friends to being a couple and we're both enjoying it quite a lot.

 

Thanks for all the advice, and I wish you all the best in the new year.