Marriage blah and now have a crush?!

[pkn06002]

PKN, I'd really like to know what can be gained by Salt telling his wife he feels no intimate connection with her? I mean, he can't tell her how to get that connection with him. What can she do with the information besides feel more depressed because of it? I honestly want to know how this benefits their marriage. If I were his wife, I'd rather he skipped that part and go straight to figuring out how to fix his attitude.

 

Oh what can be gained??? Your kidding right?

 

It is called communication and if his wife does not know he is unhappy guess what she cannot help in trying to make the marriage better. At this point she is having to work off of guessing and emotional clues. Unlike you I don't believe the idea that one person can fix the marriage. If you try to fix it yourself you only create a bubble you live in.

 

Sorry to tell you this but his attitude has all to do with the relationship with his wife. So she has a part to play in trying to figure out if this marriage can/should continue. Like an affair, him hiding the facts from her does not give her a choice in either addressing issues or ending the marriage. She is not given a choice it is being force on her.

 

Heck she may have things she feels he does not do. Although I don't believe in the magic some systems that claim to make a marriage better, the marriage builders concepts are sound. Meet your partners emotional needs and you create affection and love. Neglect those needs and you get affairs and people that divorce for the lack of a spark.

 

So if Salt's wife does not know what the issues are she cannot do anything to effect them. Even you Hopeful told your husband about what you did not like. From YOUR posts he has changed a bit to be more like you wanted him correct? So please tell us how it would've benefited your marriage if you had not let your issues be known?

 

I can personally say my marriage IMPROVED after we started to have frank open conversations. Were those conversations painful at times YES but then everyone knows where they stand.

 

Salt you say the truth may end the marriage? You are already half way out with your thinking, so what is the difference? Please don't say you want it to be your choice because the is totally selfish. Your wife needs to know the facts so she can have input. Who knows maybe things could improve if BOTH of you work to make the marriage better.

Edited October 5, 2009 by pkn06002

[hopeful1980]

PKN,

 

But there is nothing his wife can do. Salt said his wife already does try and make there marriage better. He said that she already treats him nice. There's nothing else she can do to make the relationship work. It's Salt's attitude that is keeping the marriage from being a happy one and it's probably the same attitude that is keeping his wife depressed.

 

I would understand the communication more if he could tell her how she could help him. If he could say, "Wife, if you do XYZ it would make it easier on me to change." But he can't. So what's the point?

 

If I were him, the conversation would go like this - "Wife, I know my attitude lately hasn't been befitting a loving husband lately. I want you to know it's nothing you've done and theres nothing you can really do to change it. It's my problem and I've got to figure it out. But, I'm determined to make this marriage work for us and our child. I want to be happy with you. I just wanted to let you know that from now on I'm going to try harder."

 

There's no reason for her to know why he wasn't acting the way he should or that he had a crush on another woman. That's not the point. Those were just the symptoms of a bigger problem and that's all he needs to discuss with her.

[pkn06002]

Hopeful,

 

Oh yes there is a reason to tell her! I know where Salt is and from where he is now to an affair is not a far jump. Why because your spouse does not know what is going on. If I had TALKED to my wife and gotten things on the table I doubt I would've had an affair. Instead the issues would've been addressed five years ago instead of me using escape as a way to cope. Or we could divorce when our child was very young when a divorce has less impact on a childs life.

 

Salt can do something as simple as the emotional needs questionairs at marriage builders as a start. There is a difference between treating someone nice and meeting their needs.

 

Yes he SHOULD tell his wife about the spark feelings he had with this other woman. That is information she should know, because that is a clear warning to everyone involved there is a BIG problem. Because happy people do not get a spark from someone outside the marriage.

 

Who knows through talking maybe him and his wife get a relationship they can both be happy with and raise good children in. It may not be the perfect relationship for Salt and his wife but they can address that after the children are gone.

 

Secrets do no good, this site is full of post after post on people that keep secrets.

Edited October 5, 2009 by pkn06002

[SaltLake]

I think a balance of what you are both saying is appropriate. I certainly don't think it wise to tell her all that's been happening. But of course I can communicate the issue itself without telling the nitty gritties.

Hopeful, things aren't so absolute. Yes, she does treat me well, but I would say that there are many things my wife could change, she just hasn't so far. We have spoken about these changes and now they are a sore subject. In the end, if she changed all of it, the relationship would be better, but I'm not sure the spark would come (although I could be very wrong, actually on second thought I think I am wrong.) Lets just say she changed all the things we've discussed over the years (I know this is purely selfish and won't happen, but lets just say it did hypothetically). I think then maybe the spark could come. So maybe there's something there. i we could affect enough change (and I mean we, I'm not perfect and I know she has issue with me) then maybe we can come to some middle ground. That's a start at least.

[pkn06002]

I think a balance of what you are both saying is appropriate. I certainly don't think it wise to tell her all that's been happening. But of course I can communicate the issue itself without telling the nitty gritties.

Hopeful, things aren't so absolute. Yes, she does treat me well, but I would say that there are many things my wife could change, she just hasn't so far. We have spoken about these changes and now they are a sore subject. In the end, if she changed all of it, the relationship would be better, but I'm not sure the spark would come (although I could be very wrong, actually on second thought I think I am wrong.) Lets just say she changed all the things we've discussed over the years (I know this is purely selfish and won't happen, but lets just say it did hypothetically). I think then maybe the spark could come. So maybe there's something there. i we could affect enough change (and I mean we, I'm not perfect and I know she has issue with me) then maybe we can come to some middle ground. That's a start at least.

 

 

YES!!!!!

 

Now this is the right attitude on the subject!

 

Start with the questionairs and go from there, you will be amazed but the discussions those questionairs can create.

 

See if you can find that book I recommended that will give you a fair insite as to the effects on marriage and why you should try to make it work.

 

Believe me I have gone through all the emotions (and more) that you are going through. If I can save you some steps I would like that.

[hopeful1980]

Okay PKN, but I would suggest that first Salt identifies what his needs are and communicates to his wife how she can meet them. If he just tells her that he had a crush on another woman without telling her how to do her part in fixing the marriage, it's really not going to go well. If it were me, I'd feel taken for granted and unappreciated with no clear vision of what to do in our marriage.

[hopeful1980]

I think a balance of what you are both saying is appropriate. I certainly don't think it wise to tell her all that's been happening. But of course I can communicate the issue itself without telling the nitty gritties.

Hopeful, things aren't so absolute. Yes, she does treat me well, but I would say that there are many things my wife could change, she just hasn't so far. We have spoken about these changes and now they are a sore subject. In the end, if she changed all of it, the relationship would be better, but I'm not sure the spark would come (although I could be very wrong, actually on second thought I think I am wrong.) Lets just say she changed all the things we've discussed over the years (I know this is purely selfish and won't happen, but lets just say it did hypothetically). I think then maybe the spark could come. So maybe there's something there. i we could affect enough change (and I mean we, I'm not perfect and I know she has issue with me) then maybe we can come to some middle ground. That's a start at least.

 

This makes me happy. If you think you can get a spark with her if she meets your needs, that's very hopeful. I think she'll be willing to do that based on what you've written already.

[SaltLake]

The book is "Imperfect Harmony"? That's where the exercises are?

[pkn06002]

Okay PKN, but I would suggest that first Salt identifies what his needs are and communicates to his wife how she can meet them. If he just tells her that he had a crush on another woman without telling her how to do her part in fixing the marriage, it's really not going to go well. If it were me, I'd feel taken for granted and unappreciated with no clear vision of what to do in our marriage.

 

Problem is you cannot identify those needs in a vacuum. Been there done that along with millions of other WS and it takes actually talking to figure out the missing parts. Even though a counselor is great the best person to talk it out with is your spouse.

 

If you (Hopeful) feel that way when someone tells you the truth then you do not have true honesty in your relationship. Which causes secrets and issues from there. Look at it this way with your best friend do you hold secrets? If the answer is no why is your bestfriend treated with more honesty than your spouse? Notice I did not say your spouse should be your bestfriend just that they should get the same consideration in honesty that you give that friend.

 

Even if Salt does not get the spark he could get to a point where he is content and happy. Which really in reality is the goal, because the idealized view of the perfect match/marriage rarely happens.

[pkn06002]

The book is "Imperfect Harmony"? That's where the exercises are?

 

No the exercises are at marriagebuilders.com

[giotto]

sorry to barge in ... I've followed the thread a bit and frankly I see too much negativity from the OP to envisage a positive resolution. Too many factors have to be met for that famous spark to be recreated... even if, apparently, it didn't even existed in the first place! Again, I think telling your wife would be a mistake (sorry, Hopeful), since you said she treats you well and she loves you. Ok, maybe there are issues to be corrected, but I think the main issue here is you. I recommended IC previously and I still believe this is the best option. Before you talk to your wife, you need to understand what you really want and what your motivations are. Everything else would be a waste of time, in my opinion... this if you still want to salvage your marriage...

[hopeful1980]

sorry to barge in ... I've followed the thread a bit and frankly I see too much negativity from the OP to envisage a positive resolution. Too many factors have to be met for that famous spark to be recreated... even if, apparently, it didn't even existed in the first place! Again, I think telling your wife would be a mistake (sorry, Hopeful), since you said she treats you well and she loves you. Ok, maybe there are issues to be corrected, but I think the main issue here is you. I recommended IC previously and I still believe this is the best option. Before you talk to your wife, you need to understand what you really want and what your motivations are. Everything else would be a waste of time, in my opinion... this if you still want to salvage your marriage...

 

You don't have to apologize to me, I totally agree with everything you said and have been saying the same thing. Salt needs to fix himself in order to fix the marriage.

[hopeful1980]

Problem is you cannot identify those needs in a vacuum. Been there done that along with millions of other WS and it takes actually talking to figure out the missing parts. Even though a counselor is great the best person to talk it out with is your spouse.

 

If you (Hopeful) feel that way when someone tells you the truth then you do not have true honesty in your relationship. Which causes secrets and issues from there. Look at it this way with your best friend do you hold secrets? If the answer is no why is your bestfriend treated with more honesty than your spouse? Notice I did not say your spouse should be your bestfriend just that they should get the same consideration in honesty that you give that friend.

 

Even if Salt does not get the spark he could get to a point where he is content and happy. Which really in reality is the goal, because the idealized view of the perfect match/marriage rarely happens.

 

I think you misunderstand my POV. I'm not saying he should keep secrets from his wife. He can tell her later. I just don't think now is the right time. I don't think he should tell her without also telling her how she can help fix the problem. That's all I'm saying. If he tells her he thinks about other women and that he doesn't have a spark with her without telling her how she can meet his needs so that he can be more connected to her, I don't see the point. She won't be able to do anything unless she knows what Salt needs. So before he tells her, he should figure out what he needs from her and let her know that as well as his secrets. That's all I'm saying.

[pkn06002]

Why some of you feel that secrets are a good solution to this?

Why keep the facts from his wife?

Does she not deserve to know what she is dealing with?

 

What if it takes Salt 4 years to "fix" himself she should be keep in the dark so as to not hurt her feelings?

 

You know those are all the types of things WS do when in an affair.

 

His wife needs to know what she is dealing with so she can decide what she wants as well. Salt has it right that it takes a "we" not a 'I' to fix this right.

 

Yes Salt has to figure out what he wants and needs to work with his wife to determine if she can meet those needs. Or if he can live without those needs being meet. But she should not be keep in the dark while he soul searches.

[SaltLake]

It sounds like classic "its me, not you". In reality its not all me or all her. Now that I think about it more, I do think I'd be a lot happier if she were to be different on just a few things. I'll look into these exercises that PKN mentioned. Oddly enough she's been very stand offish this week. At first I think it was because she was picking up on what was going on with me. BUT I now realise she was a little bent on a whole other matter. We DO need to talk more. One of the issues I have with her is that she takes what I say, fabricates a whole bunch of assumptions and motives, and then never goes back to suss it out with me. I hate that!

[hopeful1980]

Why some of you feel that secrets are a good solution to this?

Why keep the facts from his wife?

Does she not deserve to know what she is dealing with?

 

What if it takes Salt 4 years to "fix" himself she should be keep in the dark so as to not hurt her feelings?

 

You know those are all the types of things WS do when in an affair.

 

His wife needs to know what she is dealing with so she can decide what she wants as well. Salt has it right that it takes a "we" not a 'I' to fix this right.

 

Yes Salt has to figure out what he wants and needs to work with his wife to determine if she can meet those needs. Or if he can live without those needs being meet. But she should not be keep in the dark while he soul searches.

 

I agree. That's why I gave him an example of what he should say. He should tell her that he knows his attitude hasn't been the best and that he's working on it right now. My motivation wasn't to protect her feelings by not telling her. Her feelings are already hurt without him saying anything. I am being practical in that whatever information he gives her should come with instructions on how to help him save their marriage. I understand what you are saying, but what can his wife do with the information you think Salt should provide if he doesn't know what he needs from her to help him? That's the part I'm missing in your advice.

[giotto]

she takes what I say, fabricates a whole bunch of assumptions and motives, and then never goes back to suss it out with me.

 

Sounds like my wife...

[pkn06002]

I understand what you are saying, but what can his wife do with the information you think Salt should provide if he doesn't know what he needs from her to help him? That's the part I'm missing in your advice.

 

A valid answer from Salt to his wife is "I don't know but I want to work with you to try and figure it out."

 

This is not a problem where you can come to the discussion with all of the answers. Since the dynamic of people changes the discussion. The conversations will drive where the discussion goes.

 

A small step is to start with the marriage builders exercises. Use that to start the discussions. Yes his wife should know how attracted to someone else he is. As much as that will hurt it is better than him slipping into an affair and her having to deal with that pain.

 

There are loads of BS on this site and others that would've love to have their WS talk to them and get everything on the table before they strayed. Salt's wife has that possibility if Salt talks to her first.

[hopeful1980]

A valid answer from Salt to his wife is "I don't know but I want to work with you to try and figure it out."

 

This is not a problem where you can come to the discussion with all of the answers. Since the dynamic of people changes the discussion. The conversations will drive where the discussion goes.

 

A small step is to start with the marriage builders exercises. Use that to start the discussions. Yes his wife should know how attracted to someone else he is. As much as that will hurt it is better than him slipping into an affair and her having to deal with that pain.

 

There are loads of BS on this site and others that would've love to have their WS talk to them and get everything on the table before they strayed. Salt's wife has that possibility if Salt talks to her first.

 

None of us has all the answers. What we wanted when we first got married will probably change every now and then. I don't think Salt needs to have all the answers, but a suggestion would be nice. I think the one thing he has identified that his wife does that he doesn't like is a start. Again, I'm just putting myself in her position. What would I think and feel? If my husband told me he was thinking about other women, I'd want to know what I could do to make things better. Any one thing that I could work on would be helpful, but not knowing anything at all besides the feelings he had would completely frustrate me and make me feel hopeless.

[pkn06002]

but not knowing anything at all besides the feelings he had would completely frustrate me and make me feel hopeless.

 

Welcome to Salt's world

 

Like it or not (ask any BS) the pain now saves a whole lot more later. When a person gets to the point where Salt is being honest and truthful is a whole lot better than the alternatives.

 

Tell me how you would feel as Salt's wife if he just served you divorce papers with no prior discussions? How is that for a choice?

 

Tell me how you would feel as Salt's wife if you found out he was having an affair with no prior discussions? How is that for a choice?

 

Tell me how you would feel as Salt's wife if you see him everyday unhappy and not knowing why, so powerless to help? How is that a for a choice?

 

Salt's wife needs information to try and help make things better. If anything Salt and his wife need to try for their children. But she cannot do anything if she does not know.

 

My wife thought everything was fine, she was happy with her life. That is until I told her everything. At that point she became less happy but we are now a better couple for it. Since before that point I was making all the decisions for myself that effected her as well. Which solved NOTHING it only let more habits get into place that were (still are at times) problems.

[hopeful1980]

PKN,

 

If it were me, I'd want it to be something disclosed in MC. Of course no one likes to blindsided, but knowing your husband has a wandering eye and feelings for another woman is a bit of a blindside itself. I'd rather hear that information in the presence of someone who could help us identify what we need to do to get better, not just knowing without any clear direction on where to go from there.

[pkn06002]

PKN,

 

If it were me, I'd want it to be something disclosed in MC. Of course no one likes to blindsided, but knowing your husband has a wandering eye and feelings for another woman is a bit of a blindside itself. I'd rather hear that information in the presence of someone who could help us identify what we need to do to get better, not just knowing without any clear direction on where to go from there.

 

Well MC is an option as well and one I am sure has already been suggested.

 

But at least it is good to see you understand why she has to know. If Salt's wife is not interested in MC the story of the "spark" will sure motivate her if she cares.

[SaltLake]

I hear what you guys are saying about telling all. But I need to figure a gentle way of doing this. Like hopeful says, if I just blurt out that I was intensely attracted to this other woman and she's everything your not, that I actually pictured her in my old age not my you my wife. It would be a disaster. I've never been great at discussing inner emotions with my SigO's. I've always either been very elusive, obscure or the opposite too blunt and ego crushing. I have to tone it down and handle it in a less frightening way. PKN I hear you about coming out with the truth. I'm not sure I'm there yet.

[pkn06002]

I hear what you guys are saying about telling all. But I need to figure a gentle way of doing this. Like hopeful says, if I just blurt out that I was intensely attracted to this other woman and she's everything your not, that I actually pictured her in my old age not my you my wife. It would be a disaster. I've never been great at discussing inner emotions with my SigO's. I've always either been very elusive, obscure or the opposite too blunt and ego crushing. I have to tone it down and handle it in a less frightening way. PKN I hear you about coming out with the truth. I'm not sure I'm there yet.

 

What is interesting how much you sound like a WS that wants to tell about the affair.

 

Get MC and do the marriage builders exercises that is a good start.