Marriage blah and now have a crush?!

[quankanne]

the question of spark is totally separate from you possibly going into a funk because of stress, which in turn, is shading how you view your wife and your marriage. Success with anti-depressants is not a one-time thing ... you still are prone to stress of different times throughout your life from a variety of factors. Hell, I thought I got through dealing with my dad's dying and death pretty well, but nearly a year later it's hit pretty hard and I'm back on the meds. And I'm guessing different things are going to trigger these funks the rest of my life, so there's no full "cure," just more of an awareness of what my quirky brain chemistry is doing.

 

it more than likely is not the case with someone else, but still, before you make such life-changing decisions, make sure you rule out this kind of thing since you've experienced depression before. Because you DEFINITELY don't want to go through life second-guessing a decision to leave the marriage when the relationship wasn't the underlying problem, only a symptom.

[SaltLake]

Several of you have advised for me to re-ignite or try to start the spark. To be honest I am pessimistic. Not being defensive, but how can I reignite or start a spark when there was little to none to begin with. Belive me I have tried but it feels very forced and unnatural somewhat akin to trying to be interested in a coworkers story when you really didn't care or feigning interest in an activity to impress someone. While some can do this, its very much against my nature to force interests, emotion. It feels unbearable to me.

 

Anyone has any suggestions to how this can be done? It seems to me like making someone love someone like in a prearranged marriage. Can this work?

[pkn06002]

You are of course correct and I did think I had accepted things as they are. That all got thrown for a loop when I met a sparkly one (I like that term, thanks quankanne). Its like you're driving along all nice and steady and a deer runs across your path. Evrything goes to hell for a second and hopefully you avoid the hit, but some times its just too close not to derail you permanently.

 

Oh I know all to well the effects.

You want derailment follow the feelings and chase the dream.

 

Simple question is what you have with your wife a deal breaker to the point you are willing to change everyones life?

 

Get the book I suggested it is the reason I choose acceptance, because if what you have with your wife is not a deal breaker than it can be corrected. Or at least to a point where you both are OK.

 

You have kids correct? They deserve every effort you can make to keep the family whole. They did not volunteer to be in the family you brought them in.

[SaltLake]

This is an excellent point and I will have to think about that, so you are saying that I could be in a some state that is masking how I feel. I suppose this could be true. My only reservation about this is that i did not feel depressed when we first met. Although I was in an angry phase due to the bad break up with my ex. So it could be that I was as someone mentioned before, grieving for my loss of my ex. That could have masked feelings as well. My period of what I would call an actual depression was for about a year, 2 years ago. But before and after this I never have really felt any spark. Thorton is on target here. She thinks there never was a spark and I would have to agree. My decision is if I can live with that.

[pkn06002]

Several of you have advised for me to re-ignite or try to start the spark. To be honest I am pessimistic. Not being defensive, but how can I reignite or start a spark when there was little to none to begin with. Belive me I have tried but it feels very forced and unnatural somewhat akin to trying to be interested in a coworkers story when you really didn't care or feigning interest in an activity to impress someone. While some can do this, its very much against my nature to force interests, emotion. It feels unbearable to me.

 

Anyone has any suggestions to how this can be done? It seems to me like making someone love someone like in a prearranged marriage. Can this work?

 

Many will tell you yes, like you I am pessimistic.

 

But you have responsibilities that require you to try every option before you give up. At least if you try everything you can walk away knowing you tried your hardest.

 

You have the warning signs of a ws, you need to try every option before something happens that you cannot take back.

[JaneInVegas]

I didn't read through all of your replies, so maybe this is repeated advice.

 

You are clearly not in love with your wife. It happens to a lot of people, you are NOT a bad person for having made the choices that brought you here. Life is far too short to be with someone that doesn't make your heart sing. Move on, sweetie. Forget about the woman at the party, and do not allow yourself another rebound! Get single, live alone for at least a year before you start dating, rediscover yourself!

 

Don't let guilt put cement shoes on you. Be tactful, treat your wife with dignity and grace, but move on. After a few months of being single, you'll wonder why you waited so long in the first place.

 

I wish you all the luck in the world.

[SaltLake]

Again, you are correct. I will look into this book.

 

The "can I accept this" part of this is of course the struggle. The line in the sand moves.

 

Two things come to mind:

1. When I'm 80 and I look back do I want to say that I that I sat there and chose the safe route. Or do say I did what had to do and I am better or worse for it all.

2. I look back and think that was the worst mistake I ever made. I never met anyone better or even equal, I messed up my child's life, and now I am alone.

[hopeful1980]

Nice thoughts, but what if he has already tried?

 

QUOTE]

 

I'd say keep trying. I just don't like this idea of giving up everything just because there is no "spark". At the end of the day, no one put a gun to salt's head and made him marry a woman with whom he felt no passion. That was his choice. Now he got what he wanted and he doesn't want what he got. What about the other people involved? What about the wife and child? Have we reached a point on our society that a bond as significant as marriage can just be thrown away because we don't have that "loving feeling"?

 

In my world, a marriage should only be broken for one of the three A's - Adultery, Abuse, Addiction. Marriage is a life long committment in my eyes and not to be easily severed because we just don't "feel" it.

[pkn06002]

Again, you are correct. I will look into this book.

 

The "can I accept this" part of this is of course the struggle. The line in the sand moves.

 

Two things come to mind:

1. When I'm 80 and I look back do I want to say that I that I sat there and chose the safe route. Or do say I did what had to do and I am better or worse for it all.

2. I look back and think that was the worst mistake I ever made. I never met anyone better or even equal, I messed up my child's life, and now I am alone.

 

Take with a grain of salt the idea that kids are OK with a broken family where the parents are happy. Since in most cases only one of the parents happy after the breakup, the child has lost the family construct they know. Studies do not backup the broken happy family notion.

 

You don't know what the future holds. You projecting your future with your current feelings.

 

Once your kids are grown you can always re-evaluate.

 

This is all food for thought, since where you are at is not a fun place. Information is very much knowledge at this point.

[pkn06002]

I'd say keep trying. I just don't like this idea of giving up everything just because there is no "spark". At the end of the day, no one put a gun to salt's head and made him marry a woman with whom he felt no passion. That was his choice. Now he got what he wanted and he doesn't want what he got. What about the other people involved? What about the wife and child? Have we reached a point on our society that a bond as significant as marriage can just be thrown away because we don't have that "loving feeling"?

 

In my world, a marriage should only be broken for one of the three A's - Adultery, Abuse, Addiction. Marriage is a life long committment in my eyes and not to be easily severed because we just don't "feel" it.

 

I don't agree with your view of the world.

 

Keep trying sure (as I have mentioned) but to be tied to a concept that is not working because you promised? Sorry to me once the agreement is no longer working and is broken beyond repair why stay? What for the car, the house, the retirement plan? Kids deserve the effort since they are not volunteers in the marriage, but the spouse if they do not respond to attempts? At some point you cut your loses.

 

That is more honest than having and affair to meet the needs you feel are missing.

[hopeful1980]

I don't agree with your view of the world.

 

Keep trying sure (as I have mentioned) but to be tied to a concept that is not working because you promised? Sorry to me once the agreement is no longer working and is broken beyond repair why stay? What for the car, the house, the retirement plan? Kids deserve the effort since they are not volunteers in the marriage, but the spouse if they do not respond to attempts? At some point you cut your loses.

 

That is more honest than having and affair to meet the needs you feel are missing.

 

What? Then why get married at all if you can bail at the first sign of unhappiness? No one promised you a "spark" when you got married. No one said there would always be roses and rainbows. Marriage is a choice. No one is forced into it and we should go into it knowing it's for life, not just for "while I'm happy". Whose to say there will be a "spark" with the next person or the next? Cut your losses? OMG. This isn't a business, it's a marriage. There is much more at stake here than money.

[pkn06002]

What? Then why get married at all if you can bail at the first sign of unhappiness? No one promised you a "spark" when you got married. No one said there would always be roses and rainbows. Marriage is a choice. No one is forced into it and we should go into it knowing it's for life, not just for "while I'm happy". Whose to say there will be a "spark" with the next person or the next? Cut your losses? OMG. This isn't a business, it's a marriage. There is much more at stake here than money.

 

Did I say bail at the first sign of unhappiness? No you try but at some point what is the point of all the effort if there is no return?

 

You so much talk in the terms of the modern view of marriage. Since for most of history is has been just a business transaction. With the few where true love actual happens.

 

No one told you those things you listed above really? Because outside of sites like this spark, happiness, roses and rainbows is what society tells you happens. Short term chemicals give you that feeling it truly for ever and ever.

 

Do people force you into marriage in most cases no. But it is far to easy to get married. People like salt and I would most likely not of gotten married to who we did if it was harder to get married. Like actual outside parties that determine if you are a good match for ever and ever. I know in my case the signs were there and my friends saw them but those chemicals told me no nothing there.

 

What is this "such more at stake here than money" like what? I have already mentioned kids and their happiness what else do you have? You might hit on something that strikes a nerve with Salt.

 

Take into account who you are discussing this with. I am in the same pessimistic place as Salt. The only difference I did act on the urges he is facing now. So I no longer buy into the notions you believe in, I find them very unrealistic. I believe more in the Victorian notion of marriage as partnership and a business.

[hopeful1980]

Did I say bail at the first sign of unhappiness? No you try but at some point what is the point of all the effort if there is no return?

 

You so much talk in the terms of the modern view of marriage. Since for most of history is has been just a business transaction. With the few where true love actual happens.

 

No one told you those things you listed above really? Because outside of sites like this spark, happiness, roses and rainbows is what society tells you happens. Short term chemicals give you that feeling it truly for ever and ever.

 

Do people force you into marriage in most cases no. But it is far to easy to get married. People like salt and I would most likely not of gotten married to who we did if it was harder to get married.

 

What is this "such more at stake here than money" like what? I have already mentioned kids and their happiness what else do you have?

 

Take into account who you are discussing this with. I am in the same pessimistic place as Salt. The only difference I have acted on the urges he is facing now. So I no longer buy into the notions you believe in, I find them very unrealistic. I believe more in the Victorian notion of marriage as partnership and a business.

 

If you consider marriage a business, then a "spark" or the "feeling" would have nothing to do with it, right?

 

Bottom line is, if you make a committment to a person, you shouldn't be able to renig on that committment because you don't feel a "spark". If you didn't feel that spark to begin with, you shouldn't have married them, but you did so that ship has sailed. Live with the decision you made and make the most of it. My view of marriage isn't Victorian. I just believe that if you marry someone, you shouldn't do it with an exit plan. There should only be three tickets out like I said before. And because there isn't a spark just doesn't cut to me as a reason for divorce. It's selfish.

[pkn06002]

If you consider marriage a business, then a "spark" or the "feeling" would have nothing to do with it, right?

 

Bottom line is, if you make a committment to a person, you shouldn't be able to renig on that committment because you don't feel a "spark". If you didn't feel that spark to begin with, you shouldn't have married them, but you did so that ship has sailed. Live with the decision you made and make the most of it. My view of marriage isn't Victorian. I just believe that if you marry someone, you shouldn't do it with an exit plan. There should only be three tickets out like I said before. And because there isn't a spark just doesn't cut to me as a reason for divorce. It's selfish.

 

To be clear MY VIEW of marriage is Victorian. That is only after I have gone through similar thoughts as Salt.

 

Oh "spark" and "feeling" have all to do with it when you get married. Since chemicals are driving those actions. To make a decision that effects you for a lifetime based on chemicals with no possible exit method is foolhardy.

 

I guess in your view it is better to suffer for your decision(from you other posts the answer is yes), even if it was a poor one? Just buck up and deal with it right? Because I can tell you that is the path to one of your 3 A's, unless changes or acceptance are achieved.

 

What about these other items you say are at risk other than money and children?

 

Because Salt needs reasons other than "buck it up" or "you go married deal with it" as reasons to try.

[quankanne]

But you have responsibilities that require you to try every option before you give up. At least if you try everything you can walk away knowing you tried your hardest.

 

my point exactly – you owe it not only to yourself, but all parties involved, to do every last thing you can to fix the problems within the marriage so that if it *does* come to a point, you can honestly say you did your best. While your partner could be upset about losing you, he or she cannot say that you didn't give it the old college try.

 

I think that is what will make the difference in the long run, giving your all ... you may discover that you can enhance your marriage, you may discover otherwise, but at least you tried.

[SaltLake]

I'd have to say the I am in a mind set similar to PKN. Believe me when I say this is far from the first sign of unhappiness. I have tried working together with her and for the most part we have come back together and things are good for a while. Good but flat. Now that's not really the issue. The start of the "problem" was not a fight, something she did, or anything bad that occurred in the relationship. What occurred was an outside jolt to the system. One that was stronger than I could have thought possible. Does this mean I am ready to chuck it all out the window? No! Does this mean I'll act on it? No. That's why i am here, looking for some advise from those who may have walked this path. And the responses have been very helpful.

 

I do see your point about staying the course good and bad. If I didn't see that I'd have left a long time ago. I am trying, I just don't quite know how to make the spark from wet wood. But I pose this question to Hopeful. And I understand that if I left it would be of course in some degree selfish. But what of my wife, doesn't she deserve someone who would treat her as their first and last thought. Doesn't she deserve someone who truly loves her? Wouldn't sucking it up and carrying on mean that I'd be lying to her by omission, seems very unfair to her, seems actually disrespectful. I say this fully knowing that in the end that would not be the true reason for leaving, it would of course be self serving. But yet that is still a valid point, no? Let me say it a different way, by the way I do love my wife as a person I just don't feel like I am "in love" with her. So I am not out to hurt her and it weights terribly what this would do to her. But to rephrase, if you love someone and they were living a subpar existence with you and its your "fault" because you're not feeling the spark, would you want that life for her?

[hopeful1980]

I'd have to say the I am in a mind set similar to PKN. Believe me when I say this is far from the first sign of unhappiness. I have tried working together with her and for the most part we have come back together and things are good for a while. Good but flat. Now that's not really the issue. The start of the "problem" was not a fight, something she did, or anything bad that occurred in the relationship. What occurred was an outside jolt to the system. One that was stronger than I could have thought possible. Does this mean I am ready to chuck it all out the window? No! Does this mean I'll act on it? No. That's why i am here, looking for some advise from those who may have walked this path. And the responses have been very helpful.

 

I do see your point about staying the course good and bad. If I didn't see that I'd have left a long time ago. I am trying, I just don't quite know how to make the spark from wet wood. But I pose this question to Hopeful. And I understand that if I left it would be of course in some degree selfish. But what of my wife, doesn't she deserve someone who would treat her as their first and last thought. Doesn't she deserve someone who truly loves her? Wouldn't sucking it up and carrying on mean that I'd be lying to her by omission, seems very unfair to her, seems actually disrespectful. I say this fully knowing that in the end that would not be the true reason for leaving, it would of course be self serving. But yet that is still a valid point, no? Let me say it a different way, by the way I do love my wife as a person I just don't feel like I am "in love" with her. So I am not out to hurt her and it weights terribly what this would do to her. But to rephrase, if you love someone and they were living a subpar existence with you and its your "fault" because you're not feeling the spark, would you want that life for her?

 

I respect yours and PKN opinions even though they differ from mine. I truly do hope the best for you and your wife and child.

 

I was raised that love is something you do. It's an action. When you love someone you show them. While the feeling or "spark" motivates those actions, it doesn't have too. You can show love without the feeling. It's much harder, but it's possible. If you wanted it to work out, you would. That's were I would begin. There have been many times when I wanted to leave my marriage. My husband was NOT doing the best he could, was depressed, and wasn't showing me love at all. What I did was change MY actions because that's the only person I can change. When I started acting in a more loving way to my husband, he reacted to my change and started acting in a more loving way towards me. It took a while (over six months) but I have patience. I figure I made a promise that this is for life so I could wait until things got better.

 

I can't believe that you never loved your wife. Something drew you too her and something kept you with her. I think you've just forgotten what it was and are rationalizing that you never had any real love for her to begin with. I've felt that way about my husband as well. But to give up on not just a marriage, but a family because you have doubts of why you ever did it to begin with - I think it's a huge mistake. I hope you find what you are looking for, but I fear you will discover that you had it all along.

[hopeful1980]

To be clear MY VIEW of marriage is Victorian. That is only after I have gone through similar thoughts as Salt.

 

Oh "spark" and "feeling" have all to do with it when you get married. Since chemicals are driving those actions. To make a decision that effects you for a lifetime based on chemicals with no possible exit method is foolhardy.

 

I guess in your view it is better to suffer for your decision(from you other posts the answer is yes), even if it was a poor one? Just buck up and deal with it right? Because I can tell you that is the path to one of your 3 A's, unless changes or acceptance are achieved.

 

What about these other items you say are at risk other than money and children?

 

Because Salt needs reasons other than "buck it up" or "you go married deal with it" as reasons to try.

 

You're right. You shouldn't base a lifetime decison on chemicals produced by your brain that give you the feeling of love. But most of us do. It's not the chemicals that keep us together once you do, it's the committment. It's the promise we made to one another. That's what show a person's true character. I'm not advocating that Salt should suffer in silence. I'm saying he should DO something about his current situation that makes it better. I'm saying Salt should not give up on his family because he just doesn't feel the "spark" from his wife. He should do everything he can and exhaust every avenue before even considering giving up.

[SaltLake]

Hopeful, of course you are right about trying everything first. I haven't given up yet. I will do my best to keep my commitment and my family together. Having said that, I do fear what you said and that is suffering in silence for the rest of my life. Not having real intimacy or love. That's a tough one to swallow. I have stated previously that I am pessimistic about developing those feelings. There was a time when we both acted happier, more into each other, but even then I did not feel the spark even though I am sure she did.

 

In the end as many have said, I just need to weigh out the options. And yes, I will do everything I can before making a big decision.

[pkn06002]

I was raised that love is something you do. It's an action.

 

 

I have read and heard many a time what you have above. It rings hollow to me, why? I have tried the fake it until you make it, just act loving etc.... like you mentioned for about the same time frame. I got the opposite reaction that you got. Don't know if it is the difference in the sexes or what.

 

I can "act" loving all day long and not feel a thing. Which as Salt has mentioned does give a false impression. If like you it leads to something positive great but the action of love is not a solution.

 

That is why everyone of these discussions is difficult when you try to interject your beliefs into advice.

 

Anyway Salt just take your time, your feelings have built up over a long time and just think long and hard about a change. Because with kids the impact goes beyond that of what effects adults.

[hopeful1980]

I have read and heard many a time what you have above. It rings hollow to me, why? I have tried the fake it until you make it, just act loving etc.... like you mentioned for about the same time frame. I got the opposite reaction that you got. Don't know if it is the difference in the sexes or what.

 

I can "act" loving all day long and not feel a thing. Which as Salt has mentioned does give a false impression. If like you it leads to something positive great but the action of love is not a solution.

 

That is why everyone of these discussions is difficult when you try to interject your beliefs into advice.

QUOTE]

 

I'm not talking about putting on an act. If I go and buy my husband a red bull before he goes to work and leave a note on it because I know he'd like it, that's not an act. Even if I didn't feel like doing it, I did it to show love. You don't have to put up a front to DO things that are loving. Like giving someone a foot massage or asking them do they need any help. That doesn't require acting. It just requires willingness to change. I know all about faking it until you make it, but that's not what I'm talking about.

 

How can you give advice without using your own frame of reference? Isn't that what you are doing as well? When you come to an open forum and post your story for all to read, you are going to get different forms of advice and most are going to be based on what the reader believes. I don't understand how it could be any other way.

[pkn06002]

I'm not talking about putting on an act. If I go and buy my husband a red bull before he goes to work and leave a note on it because I know he'd like it, that's not an act. Even if I didn't feel like doing it, I did it to show love. You don't have to put up a front to DO things that are loving. Like giving someone a foot massage or asking them do they need any help. That doesn't require acting. It just requires willingness to change. I know all about faking it until you make it, but that's not what I'm talking about.

 

How can you give advice without using your own frame of reference? Isn't that what you are doing as well? When you come to an open forum and post your story for all to read, you are going to get different forms of advice and most are going to be based on what the reader believes. I don't understand how it could be any other way.

 

Well then by your definition above I love my wife, which I would debate is true. It is possible to be nice and caring without love.

 

Yes it is difficult to give advice without a frame of reference. Once difference between (that I see) your posts and mine is this. You work on the absolute idea that marriage is forever and there is no other discussion (my impression of your posts). Where I will give my experiences but I will try to figure out what motivates the poster to help them. I in no way work in with the absolute that my way is the only/best way. Lord knows it's not.

 

Your right it does take different ideas to get through to someone. But once someone like myself of Salt states they do not agree with absolutes what is the point of continuing stating that is the only/best way?

 

Look I am not trying to pick a fight with you, just trying to figure out the best way to motivate Salt to try everything before making any changes. Or taking the worse path and acting on the crush, since that is just escape and leads to nothing but a mess. Since there are lots of possible outcomes each with their own advantages and draw backs.

[SaltLake]

Hopeful, I think I know what you're talking about. You're saying to put in a little effort, show little behaviors that indicate you are thinking of the other person. Am I correct? We actually tried something where we tried to do something nice and unexpected for each other at least once a week. It lasted maybe 3 weeks. Not that we against it, but without enthusiasm behind it without that spark (I know I am using that term too ofter but it's really the main topic here), so with out the spark the gestures are hard to do sincerely.

 

If there is one common point in all this advice it this. Think long and hard and go slow. Try as hard as you can not to end things. I hear that loud and clear. I will make no sudden movements. Thankfully too the life altering spark from the OW has mellowed down and I am not feeling the super strong impulses to act on it at this point.

[hopeful1980]

I'm not fighting with you PKN. I'm just expressing my idea of what Salt should do from a wifes perspective. After I read Salts OP, I empathized with his wife. I wondered how I would feel if my husband felt the same way about me and what I would want him to do. That is what I have been posting here. I'm not pushing some antiquated ideal of marriage. In any society or culture, marriage is forever. "Til death do us part" and all that jazz. If you don't want that or put conditions on it other than extremes (adultery, abuse, addiction), why do you even get married to begin with? That's what I am wondering.

 

I think Salt can love his wife and I think Salt's wife is dying to be loved. Maybe he doesn't feel like it, but that doesn't mean he can't do it. I believe things would change if he started loving her. I believe she may come out of her depression if she felt loved and taken care of. She does deserve a husband who will do that for her and that husband is Salt. I think their marriage can be saved and I'm giving advice based on that premise.

[hopeful1980]

Hopeful, I think I know what you're talking about. You're saying to put in a little effort, show little behaviors that indicate you are thinking of the other person. Am I correct? We actually tried something where we tried to do something nice and unexpected for each other at least once a week. It lasted maybe 3 weeks. Not that we against it, but without enthusiasm behind it without that spark (I know I am using that term too ofter but it's really the main topic here), so with out the spark the gestures are hard to do sincerely.

 

If there is one common point in all this advice it this. Think long and hard and go slow. Try as hard as you can not to end things. I hear that loud and clear. I will make no sudden movements. Thankfully too the life altering spark from the OW has mellowed down and I am not feeling the super strong impulses to act on it at this point.

 

You are correct. I think you had the right idea but you didn't do it often enough and gave up to early. In trying to regain my love for my husband, I did nice things for him every day for over a month. At first it was very difficult and felt very insincere. I felt as though he didn't deserve it. Why was I the only one trying to make this thing work? What was the point? And I will admit at first my attempts were half-assed. But I continued, and slowly but surely things got better. When my attitude towards our relationship changed, he changed. He changed in ways I had only hoped he would before and now we are a much happier couple and our children seem much happier as well.

 

If I were you, I'd start small. Like touch her as you walk past her in the hallway next time. Or compliment her on something you see her doing that you do think is good like her mothering skills or her cooking. LOOK for the good things your wife does. LOOK for the good and you are going to find it.