Marriage blah and now have a crush?!

[pkn06002]

I'm not pushing some antiquated ideal of marriage. In any society or culture, marriage is forever. "Til death do us part" and all that jazz. If you don't want that or put conditions on it other than extremes (adultery, abuse, addiction), why do you even get married to begin with? That's what I am wondering.

 

Unfortunately what you have above is not true historically or in modern times.

 

You make a good point why even get married because that is what you are told you need to do when you grow up as a child. So you are conditioned to want to get married or to at least expect to want it. If I knew then what I know now about marriage I would not of gotten married. That is why I say it is too easy to get married, it should be harder to the point where you know you want to spend "til death" with someone.

 

I agree with you that I am sure his wife wants him to love her. I can empathize with Salt though and understand the whole you are with someone you really don't feel love for. Even if at one time you did. You care for them but really love them that is up to debate.

 

Salt if you have not already tried it do what hopeful is suggesting, who knows it might work. Didn't for me, but you might get results more along the lines of hopeful's. Here will be the hard part, you need to make it believable to yourself and her. Because she will know if it is just pity, you need to really try if you feel it is worth the family.

[hopeful1980]

Unfortunately what you have above is not true historically or in modern times.

 

You make a good point why even get married because that is what you are told you need to do when you grow up as a child. So you are conditioned to want to get married or to at least expect to want it. If I knew then what I know now about marriage I would not of gotten married. That is why I say it is too easy to get married, it should be harder to the point where you know you want to spend "til death" with someone.

 

I agree with you that I am sure his wife wants him to love her. I can empathize with Salt though and understand the whole you are with someone you really don't feel love for. Even if at one time you did. You care for them but really love them that is up to debate.

 

QUOTE]

 

I think it's too easy to get married AND too easy to get divorced. I told my husband I would never divorce him. Murder him perhaps, but never divorce him. LOL!

 

I can relate to Salt's wife because I too have been married for 5 years (on December 1) and we have a 3 year old son too (as well as a 2 year old daughter). I knew my husband for 6 years before we got married. I can totally relate to Salt and his wife.

 

I know how it feels to loose the spark. I know how it feels to just go through the motions. I am ashamed to admit that I at times wondered if we wouldn't be better off with other people better suited for us. I made exit strategies and fantasized about leaving my husband. I weighed the pros and cons and in the end I decided its "cheaper to keep her" (in my case him). But I knew if I was going to stay that I would have to change my attitude. I would have to be a happier wife if I ever expected to have a happy marriage. So that's what I did. It's not perfect, but we are together and we both work hard at making it work. That's all you can really ask.

[quankanne]

I told my husband I would never divorce him. Murder him perhaps, but never divorce him. LOL! another catholic on board Actually, I told my husband the same thing ... "I'm a good Mexican Catholic girl who doesn't believe in divorce. I *do* believe in murder, though" *smile*

 

look, at some point, every marriage goes through the post-honeymoon stage and you seriously question your being there when the other person fails to respond in a manner pleasing to you, gets on your nerves, is being a butt-head, doesn't respect you, etc. And you've got to look past those things to figure out what the bedrock of your relationship is: Love? Mutual goals? Desire? Respect?

 

and you go from there, each and every day. Some days it comes naturally, other days it seems forced, but overall there's a balance. The thing is YOU have to make the effort even though it feels unfair that the other person is reaping the benefits without doing a damned thing. Because you realize, he or she is doing the same thing, too. If that person isn't, it's time to start talking about what direction the marriage has taken.

 

spark is fantastic, but it's not the kind of thing that can ever be a true foundation for a relationship because it's wonky and undependable at best.

[hopeful1980]

Quankanne, I'm actually not religious. I haven't been to church in years! However, I do find religious books about marriage very wise. I used the 40 day love dare to save my marriage and it worked.

 

ITA with you though. That's how it is in marriage. I don't always look at my husband with stars in my eyes. Sometime I actually hate him. Sometimes he disgusts me. I have wondered so many times what even drew me to him in the first place? I think every marriage is like that.

 

But like you said, all you can do is give it the best you've got every day. I look for the good in my husband and try my best to not let his flaws overshadow his strenths and I hope he does the same for me because lord knows I'm not perfect!

[quankanne]

I think this is where people go wrong, not admitting that their marriages aren't perfect, even though to others the relationship is strong, good, exemplar, etc ...

 

it's not a pretty feeling to admit those things (somedays I can't stand him either, and wonder "what if?") but I figure they have to get out so that I can concentrate on the more important stuff: Figuring out what's the problem with ME to be feeling those things. I think it was you who said that the only person you can change is yourself, and it's so true. When you're in a certain negative mindset, nothing but nothing about that other person is going to please you.

 

but, when you realize that those feelings are comiing from you, you start thinking about how things can change if you changed your attitude. Maybe it's the "fake it til you make it bit" or maybe it's a maturer outlook, thing is, dwelling on the negative just makes things worse.

 

FYI– hopeful, the biggest impact on our marriage was the Marriage Encounter weekend we did about 10 years ago. Helped us figure out what the bedrock of marriage was/is, and taught us how to communicate more effectively. Yeah, we still go through stages, but it's much easier now to stop pointing fingers about whose fault it is and seriously examine what each of us can do to make things better. As long as there's hope, things have the potential to get better

[Thornton]

Maybe I want my cake and eat it too. Translated it means I must be able to find a sparkly one who is also stable/good/decent/loves me too. I guess that is the last hold out in our brains. If that one nagging suspicion wasn't there, I'd bet we'd be content with what we have.

 

Isn't that what everyone wants? But I've been dating for 15 years and I haven't encountered such a person yet, which makes me doubt if such a person even exists outside of Hollywood movies. If I could be sure that what I have now is the best I could get then maybe I'd find it easier to be happy; what kills me is this nagging feeling that I want and deserve something better. Hollywood has a lot to answer for

 

I bet when a lot of people watch movies they're attracted to a character who seems attractive, intelligent, romantic, etc... everything in one package... but guess what? The actor playing that role is probably nothing like that; the words he/she is speaking are written by a scriptwriter who probably is that intelligent, romantic soul, but the scriptwriter doesn't have the attractiveness of the actor who speaks the lines on-screen... neither of them is everything in one package. It's the same in everyday life... I tend to find that the mature, intelligent, romantic people don't always come in the prettiest package, and those with whom I have that spark aren't always the nicest people deep down inside. It's no surprise that my relationships with the former are stable but spark-free, while I have sparks with the latter but the relationship isn't happy due to their instability.

 

Without exception, the people with whom I have a spark treat me very badly, while those I don't have a spark with are very trustworthy and stable. Perhaps that says something about me, that I'm attracted to the wrong sort of guys, and I need to work on changing that. What I am sure of is that the guys I find desirable are generally those with high relationship value (good looking, good career, bright, confident, interesting, etc) and those sort of people have a lot of options because everyone else finds them attractive too, which is perhaps what leads them to be unfaithful and untrustworthy and not the best partners. In contrast, those guys who I have found to be very trustworthy and stable tend to be of lesser relationship value (in my opinion), so they probably have less options; they're happy to be in a steady relationship and make a big effort to keep their partner (i.e. me) happy. This theory means that they guys I have a spark with are by nature always going to be unreliable because they're very attractive and have a lot of options, whereas those I find less attractive are also less attractive to everyone else, and therefore more reliable. This blows the **** out of the idea of finding someone attractive and reliable Over the years I've come to believe that finding a good relationship is less about thinking with your heart and instincts, and more about thinking with your head - more so because my instincts frequently seem to pick the wrong people!

 

I also wanted to say something to you about depression. Someone suggested that you're not in love with your wife because you're depressed; I'd like to propose the opposite view, that you were willing to settle with her while you were depressed and didn't feel like getting out there again, but now you're no longer depressed you're no longer happy to settle. So it's not that you don't love her because you're depressed, but perhaps that you don't love her because you're no longer depressed and no longer happy to settle? That was certainly what happened with me anyway.

 

Finally I just wanted to say that working on a relationship is all very well if you're trying to regain something you've lost, but it's difficult to regain something that you never had in the first place. Sometimes you just have no desire to work on something, because even if it could be fixed, you simply have no desire to fix it. With regard to my ex, I had no desire to fix our relationship, because I was not and had never been in love with him. I had no desire to make myself love him, because he wasn't the type of person I wanted to be with. For example, why would I want to make myself love someone who didn't want to have intellectual discussions with me, when what I really wanted was someone who would have those sort of discussions? It would have been like hypnotising myself to want something other than what I really wanted, and by convincing myself that he was the guy I wanted I wouldn't be being true to myself. Only you know what category your relationship with your wife falls into; whether you want to make things work with her or whether by doing so you would be untrue to yourself. Either way it's a big decision: choosing to spend the rest of your life with someone, or admitting that they're not right for you and choosing to find someone else.

Edited October 2, 2009 by Thornton

[SaltLake]

Good points made by all of you. Here's the thing. I can go ahead and do all the nice little things and Hopeful, you have the patience of a saint in that regard, and I do believe that she would be better towards me. But that is not necessarily my problem. She's already nice to me, and if I were to turn it up a notch she's probably respond and be even nicer to me still. But I'm the problem here, not her. She can't seem to please me and she gives up. It all goes back to the spark. Now I heard you guys that the spark is not sustainable, is unstable, etc. but I firmly believe there has to be some spark. I miss the spark, I want that spark. Its been very difficult wrestling with the fact that I may never have it. I'm going to try to kindle a spark but unfortunately i am pessimistic about it. And of course that will lead me to a self fulfilling conclusion. If someone here has ever been able to make that spark come out when there was none before please chime in. If one person has done it I can feel a lot better that I'm not doing this just to fail.

[Thornton]

Personally I have never managed to kindle a spark where there was none to begin with. You can't remember what made you fall in love with someone if you never actually fell in love with them. As I said before, I always felt like trying to make myself love someone would be like trying to hypnotise myself to want a person that I don't actually want. If we could all make ourselves love someone just because they loved us, or because we had a child with them, or whatever, then relationships would be a lot simpler!

 

In my opinion, if someone doesn't have the character attributes that you want in a partner, the only way to convince yourself that you love that person is to convince yourself that those character attributes don't actually matter to you, which to me felt like I was being untrue to myself. I can understand why you want to try your hardest to make things work because of your child, and I salute you for that, but don't feel too bad if you can't make yourself love her - most of us can't force ourselves to love someone either.

[hopeful1980]

Salt was there no time when your wife made you feel happy? Can't you remember any instance where you felt blessed to have her in your life? Does she have any traits you admire?

[quankanne]

Someone suggested that you're not in love with your wife because you're depressed I brought up the point that when someone is depressed, they aren't acting as they normally do, and the things that once brought them happiness are meaningless because there's no value to them anymore. That person *can't* get happy no matter what decision he/she makes.

 

I'm wondering if the OP is going through a depressive funk right now, his view of his marriage is not as unwarped as it could be, and this chick who brought "spark" to him for a short period is him grabbing at straws? Let's just say that he did divorce because he felt the marriage was dead-end, and he found someone who provided that spark ... if he's got unresolved issues of depression, it's only a matter of time that she's gonna be as lackluster to him as his first wife was. He cannot keep coming back to the other person as the answer, he's got to make those changes within in order to affect change outside. And if that means ending his marriage, at least he's addressed the main issue: Himself.

[Thornton]

It's possible that the OP is going through a depressive funk and therefore isn't able to love his wife, but if that were the case you'd expect him to have been crazy about her at some point and then have lost that somehow because of his depression. What he's saying is that he was never madly in love with her - in his depression and loneliness he settled for someone he really wasn't in love with, and now he's regretting it. Perhaps he doesn't have unresolved issues of depression that would also affect a future relationship - perhaps the fact that he is over his depression is the very reason why he no longer feels content to settle for someone he was never in love with?

 

Both situations are possible, and only the OP knows which applies in his case: Is he depressed and no longer able to love his wife, which could be fixed by addressing his depression? Or is he no longer depressed, and therefore now able to acknowledge that he simply doesn't love his wife and consider moving on?

[SaltLake]

Thorton, It's pretty eerie how similar our situations are. And again I think you're right on. Too bad you're in another country I think a commiserating coffee would be in order.

 

In any case, however, I am positive that I was not depressed when I met her but I WAS going through the classic phases of loss (due to bad break up with exGF). I think I was in the angry/denial phase. My depression started with a career problem, although the seeds of that depression may have been sown at the breakup (a general shock to the ego). I don't know for sure. But looking back I was still a happy fun loving person when I first met my wife, a little damaged but still happy over all. There wasn't much spark but I figured I was just damaged, but I certainly was not in a depression. But I still think you're onto something here, if I was in denial or some other phase, it probably did act similar to if I were in a depressive state.

 

You must have amazing clarity to see all this in yourself and I am certainly at benefit for this insight.

 

I'm not sure why it is that you've been attracted to the wrong types. I don't think that applies to me although this may only be because I am not even aware that I am attracted to the wrong type of girl. The ones with sparks always do seem to hurt me as well. I have no real sense of what this new sparkly one would be like.

 

Your last paragraph is on target again. I don't like faking. It is far far from my core, and It would be a hard pill to swallow. You mentioned that you are currently in a steady good relationship with little spark. How are you with the whole thing? Is it ok? What would happen if you met another sparkly? I haven't heard that you have children, that makes it easier to go, but you're staying and following your head not your heart. You've accepted this?... Thorton, you are alright in my book. Thanks for this!

[SaltLake]

Hopeful- To answer your question I think yes there were some small sparks in the beginning, but when I say small, I mean SMALL. Admiration is another issue at the moment. I think I mentioned in another email that I have trouble finding ANY great qualities about her. Having said that I must again say that she is not a bad person, not evil, not too crazy. Its just that I find her very average at all levels. Average mother, average common sense, average homemaker. I really do wish that she had one amazing attribute that I can grasp on to and say "boy I love her because she is so good at "X?". I can't seem to think of anything other than that she is determined, and when pressed against a wall, she will overcome her fear and do something. But even that trait seems to be missing now.

[pkn06002]

Hopeful- To answer your question I think yes there were some small sparks in the beginning, but when I say small, I mean SMALL. Admiration is another issue at the moment. I think I mentioned in another email that I have trouble finding ANY great qualities about her. Having said that I must again say that she is not a bad person, not evil, not too crazy. Its just that I find her very average at all levels. Average mother, average common sense, average homemaker. I really do wish that she had one amazing attribute that I can grasp on to and say "boy I love her because she is so good at "X?". I can't seem to think of anything other than that she is determined, and when pressed against a wall, she will overcome her fear and do something. But even that trait seems to be missing now.

 

Are you married to my wife or did we just happen to find twins?

[SaltLake]

PKN. That's the first good laugh I've had over this. Hey maybe if we swapped them we could make some sparks!

[SaltLake]

Are you married to my wife or did we just happen to find twins?

 

 

Pkn, still out there? Thank you for your posts. It appears to me that we are in the same state of mindset and in almost identical situations. What you've posted has been very helpful.

 

One thing though, I think you mentioned that you had acted on an impulse at one point and that it was a bad move. Can you elaborate, what happened? Did you meet someone that you thought was everything you thought she'd be and then some how it all changed? This insight would be very helpful. I'm the type that needs to explore all options but if someone else has explored before and it was a dead end that removes my impulse to try myself.

[pkn06002]

Pkn, still out there? Thank you for your posts. It appears to me that we are in the same state of mindset and in almost identical situations. What you've posted has been very helpful.

 

One thing though, I think you mentioned that you had acted on an impulse at one point and that it was a bad move. Can you elaborate, what happened? Did you meet someone that you thought was everything you thought she'd be and then some how it all changed? This insight would be very helpful. I'm the type that needs to explore all options but if someone else has explored before and it was a dead end that removes my impulse to try myself.

 

Oh I followed though and had the whole affair thing, it was a 3.5 year long affair. Yes she was everything I would want, which does make coming back to something you are blah about very difficult. But as I mentioned children make the difference to me and that is why I am trying to improve things or at least get acceptance. By acceptance something I am happy with that keeps the family intact.

 

BTW I do not recommend exploration it causes more difficulties than it is worth.

[SaltLake]

PKN or anyone who is in a similar situation. So you are still there for your kids or another valid reason. Can you tell me how you feel? Are you satisfied with this? Are you happy? Or is it flat for you? Do your spouses know or did you keep it to yourself? What is the relationship like then? Cordial, or something else? Do you feel like you're faking it? Or did you tune it out, sort of speak? Tough question for sure but honest answers would be great.

 

BTW thanks everyone, the impulse to react has diminished greatly since the party when I met that woman. While the crush is still there, it has calmed way down, thanks all for talking me down.

[hopeful1980]

Hopeful- To answer your question I think yes there were some small sparks in the beginning, but when I say small, I mean SMALL. Admiration is another issue at the moment. I think I mentioned in another email that I have trouble finding ANY great qualities about her. Having said that I must again say that she is not a bad person, not evil, not too crazy. Its just that I find her very average at all levels. Average mother, average common sense, average homemaker. I really do wish that she had one amazing attribute that I can grasp on to and say "boy I love her because she is so good at "X?". I can't seem to think of anything other than that she is determined, and when pressed against a wall, she will overcome her fear and do something. But even that trait seems to be missing now.

 

If there was a small spark there once, I have faith that you can get it back. It only takes one small spark to create a fire and that's what you are really want isn't it?

 

I think like Thorton said, you have to want a spark with her. I don't believe you can't get one, I am more inclined to think you don't want to get one. But it is possible to create something meaningful with the woman you already have and who loves you and treats you well.

[pkn06002]

PKN or anyone who is in a similar situation. So you are still there for your kids or another valid reason. Can you tell me how you feel? Are you satisfied with this? Are you happy? Or is it flat for you? Do your spouses know or did you keep it to yourself? What is the relationship like then? Cordial, or something else? Do you feel like you're faking it? Or did you tune it out, sort of speak? Tough question for sure but honest answers would be great.

 

BTW thanks everyone, the impulse to react has diminished greatly since the party when I met that woman. While the crush is still there, it has calmed way down, thanks all for talking me down.

 

Good to hear the impulse has diminished, that is your warning sign that you are in a BAD place. You need to get that addressed ASAP.

 

Here I will give you my take on your question above.

 

Satisfied no, content yes. Could the relationship be better definitely but I am not getting help in that department so I have learned to accept it for what it is. Complaining and wanting more is not a good place to be.

 

At times it is just cordial yes, other times it is more like friends with benefits. But nothing like these perfect marriages you hear are possible if you follow this book or that advise. It is what it is, nothing more nothing less.

 

Do I want more in a relationship YES but is what lacking from the marriage a deal breaker, at this point no. For some people the answer would be a yes but not for me.

 

I will say I have a different outlook on marriage since my affair and for me it is a more realistic one. In very rare cases is someone going to be everything you ever wanted. But I know that I went into marriage believing that was the case, I know better now. That false belief can lead you to chase a dream that really rarely happens.

 

Short and long of it this (for me), is what is lacking from your marriage a deal breaker? Are you willing to change the lives of your kids dramatically? Are you willing to take the financial changes of divorce? Are you willing to answer the questions you children and family will ask? If you can't answer YES to all of those work on the marriage.

[SaltLake]

If there was a small spark there once, I have faith that you can get it back. It only takes one small spark to create a fire and that's what you are really want isn't it?

 

I think like Thorton said, you have to want a spark with her. I don't believe you can't get one, I am more inclined to think you don't want to get one. But it is possible to create something meaningful with the woman you already have and who loves you and treats you well.

 

Hopeful, I like where you are coming from. Its a difficult feeling to describe. But I would say yes, I of course want the spark to be there. Its interesting you point this out that maybe I don't want the spark, I'll have to mull that over. My initial reaction to that is not as if I don't want the spark but I can't really picture it in my head. So this puts me in a pessimistic mood about it. Maybe if I could visualize it, even if it was a little "fake it til you make it". Perhaps that visualization would help, I think if I were just not pessimistic that would help. Just not sure how to get there. I'm very logical, analytical, and pragmatic. I have a hard time convincing myself of things that I don't believe in. But I do think if I could visualize it, I think it could help.

[pkn06002]

But I do think if I could visualize it, I think it could help.

 

Salt,

 

There is nothing you can visualize on this, you have to just go through it. Everyone here could tell you what they went through and how and where they are at and that data would do you no good. You need to just pick a path and try it, if that does not work pick another one until you determine where you want to go.

 

First YOU need to determine if you want to try. There are several reasons why you should try but only YOU can determine if it is worth the time and effort.

 

Then pick a path and follow it. But with any path you follow the first thing you need to do is sit down your wife and tell her how you feel. If you stay silent you will get no where, except to have more negative feelings build up.

[giotto]

PKN or anyone who is in a similar situation. So you are still there for your kids or another valid reason. Can you tell me how you feel? Are you satisfied with this? Are you happy? Or is it flat for you? Do your spouses know or did you keep it to yourself? What is the relationship like then? Cordial, or something else? Do you feel like you're faking it? Or did you tune it out, sort of speak? Tough question for sure but honest answers would be great.

 

BTW thanks everyone, the impulse to react has diminished greatly since the party when I met that woman. While the crush is still there, it has calmed way down, thanks all for talking me down.

 

I'm staying for the kids, despite the lack of spark due to our marital problems (the story is too long...). The only difference is that my wife doesn't love me either... I haven't had the chance to talk to her about how she feels at the moment. Basically, I fell out of love after she told me that she cared about me very much... but love? I don't know if this is relevant to you. I can only say that, although I'm not mad about the situation, it's ok... I'm definitely "tuned out", though. Faking it? No, we both know where we stand...

[hopeful1980]

PKN, I'd really like to know what can be gained by Salt telling his wife he feels no intimate connection with her? I mean, he can't tell her how to get that connection with him. What can she do with the information besides feel more depressed because of it? I honestly want to know how this benefits their marriage. If I were his wife, I'd rather he skipped that part and go straight to figuring out how to fix his attitude.

[SaltLake]

I'd have to agree with Hopeful. But I'm not sure PKN is saying tell her the whole story, but just that I feel flat and how we can work on it. That's more the line I would take. I couldn't tell her the whole thing, it would probably end the marriage.