What is "support" in the OM/OW Forum?

[moaningmyrtle]

The other thread got me thinking about this.

 

For addictive drugs and behaviours (eg gambling), "support" usually means to overcome the addiction by having nothing further to do with it and stopping the behaviour. This seems to be the equivalent of "no contact" or NC in an affair.

 

Several posters treat "support" in the OM/OW Forum as meaning encouragement and support for NC.

 

Others interpret "support" as being support for continuing an affair and for conducting everyday life etc while in an affair.

 

Which is it? Or does "support" encompass both types of "support"? If so it's a little different to the support offered for other types of "addictive" behaviours.

 

Just asking what others think.

[Lizzie60]

For me .. support is whatever the OP needs.. she might need support for NC or she might need support because she's heartbroken.. or she simply wants to talk about her experience..

[MSUE]

support is provided depending on the specific situation and the OP's need...there is no black and white...but every shade of gray possible instead...it is very individual...as individual as we all are

[ForumFool]

To me support is helping someone stay as sane as possible while at the same time grounded in reality. One cannot be supported if people talk them into jumping off a bridge....helping someone stay in a bad relationship (as defined by them) is not support....helping that person to either bag the AP or not is to me supportive...staying on a fence isn't..Hugs and all at times of pain yes.....5 years in an affair bawling over when will he leave his wife....well what would support be there....to me it would be get out he isn't leaving..sounds harsh but why act like he is and let him/her hurt for 6 more years

[Lizzie60]

Even support can be controversial...

 

For someone.. MY support can be seen as not supportive or even destructive.. but in my mind.. I am giving support.. the one I think is the best option.. it's very personal..

[CarbonCopy]

I think just having an outlet to share your stories is support in itself. If I didn't have my best friend to confide in then I think I would have gone insane a long time ago.

[ForumFool]

Lizzy I am like you in that respect ...some do not GET that I really really am trying to be supportive. It happens to me even in the BS forum (I really don't fit in either forum) cause I will try to help the person see that if hubby cheated on them 25 times they can stay and continue to be unhappy..leave....and find out how they feel...or stay and work on liking it....odds are they ought to leave if they are posting here weeping for months over each new affair....like sh*& or get off the pot...I try to word it as kind as I can but I am the same in any forum ....

 

Lol btw this is my most direct post not my usual style but the same type of message ..I see no point in saying to BS or OW awww honey it will be OK ...when I have seen them post for weeks and months ..even YEARS that they are NOT OK then I try to support them by finding an OK option for them ..suggestions etc....sure I feel sorry for them and say so but healing requires actions

 

BTW I love this thread

[Tony]

Support is NOT putting someone down for having been in a relationship with a married person. Support is NOT insulting someone, lecturing someone or verbally scolding them. Support is NOT judgment. I am in agreement with others above that support in this category is giving the person what they need. When someone is hurting, they don't need an angry person coming along and telling them off.

 

Many people have very strong feelings about betrayal. They were raised with an ethic that paints an affair with a married person as sinful and wicked. Those people, if they intend to advance their personal feelings about the subject in threads by people seeking support or advice on this subject, are admonished to go to another area of LoveShack.

 

It takes extremely open minded, intelligent and mature individuals to give an ear to the people who come into this category and I am grateful that we have those here who can treat the subject sensitively.

[Trialbyfire]

I am in agreement with others above that support in this category is giving the person what they need. When someone is hurting, they don't need an angry person coming along and telling them off.

Therefore, if a member suggests that an OM/OW/WS get out of an affair or don't start it, they would get an infraction for not being supportive?

[ForumFool]

Therefore, if a member suggests that an OM/OW/WS get out of an affair or don't start it, they would get an infraction for not being supportive?

 

 

I could be wrong Trial and am looking forward to Tony's reply but I THINK he means don't be calling people whores and saying they are stupid....trash....things I have seen in here...I can't beleive it would be supportive of someone who knows a person is allergic to a bee sting and doesn't warn them they may be hurt if they keep whacking the bee hive with a baseball bat. I find truth can be helpful. I also see posters who when someone gives support or advice ....post and argue with them...then the OP gets forgotten and it becomes a slugfest....

[skylarblue]

In general, as it applies to people, I would define "support" as the act of helping to keep someone mentally and emotionally stable by the offering of active help, assistance, sympathy, encouragement, and/or comfort in a time of difficulty or distress.

FYI, "support groups" pertain to a group of people with common experiences and concerns who provide emotional and moral support (moral support as in personal support and encouragement intended to bolster someone's courage or determination; not moral as defined as right or wrong).

Obviously, support can pertain to a situation that is seen as positive or negative, but in general I believe people associate "support" with something positive as in overcoming some kind of adversity, crisis, or hardship.

"Support" should not be confused with "advice" which I think are two different things.

[OWoman]

For addictive drugs and behaviours (eg gambling), "support" usually means to overcome the addiction by having nothing further to do with it and stopping the behaviour. This seems to be the equivalent of "no contact" or NC in an affair.

 

... which is valid IF the A is an addiction for the OP. While there have been a couple of cases where the OP has declared this to be the case, more often than not this is not relevant. So, treating something that is not an addiction as if it were is neither helpful (to the OP) nor effective (to the person providing "support"). Plus, misdiagnosing an A that doesn't feature addiction on the part of the OP is likely to be perceived - by the OP, as well as others in similar situations - as passing a moral judgment, and thus as being judgmental rather than supportive.

 

In positing two extremes (supporting NC vs supporting the A), the OP seems to be suggesting that those are the only two posibilities, and that one is therefore either on the side of "good" (ie, stop the A, save the AP) or on the side of "evil" (encourage the A, condemn the AP to perdition). IRL things are far more nuanced and complex, and most people are are mature enough to spot that there are a great many options available besides that.

 

Support, IMO, involves firstly finding out where the OP is at, and what they're seeking and needing RIGHT NOW. Yes, they may be in a toxic R, and the best thing for them may well be to walk away from it, but if they're not yet in a position to consider that - or even hear it - then screaming it at them is not going to help - and it won't be supportive, it will be harassing. Support hears them, recognises where they are, and offers them a shoulder as they prepare to take the next step - wherever that might lead them, on their own path to the resolution of their situation.

 

Support also recognises that, just as people differ, so their ideal outcomes may also differ. What may be the perfect situation for one (eg, NC) may not be for another, who may be happy to remain the OW (once some niggly R issues are resolved) or yet another, who may land up happily with their AP. Support recognises that those of us reading don't have the full information, and that what we want for the OP (which is often what we imagine we'd want for ourselves, were we in the OP's position) is not necessarily what will ultimately be the best for THEM - that we need to offer, suggest, propose - but be prepared that perhaps we have it wrong.

 

Support also celebrates progress and resolution for the OP - whether or not it is the "ideal" situation we'd have wanted for them / us. Support wants to see the OP happy, well and living authentically according to THEIR values, rather than ours.

[OWoman]

Therefore, if a member suggests that an OM/OW/WS get out of an affair or don't start it, they would get an infraction for not being supportive?

 

Suggesting is one thing; haranguing someone and calling them a whore (as has happened here many times to OW portrayed as unrepentant) is quite another.

 

HOW one does something is as relevant as WHAT one does.

[moaningmyrtle]

...

 

In positing two extremes (supporting NC vs supporting the A), the OP seems to be suggesting that those are the only two possibilities, and that one is therefore either on the side of "good" (ie, stop the A, save the AP) or on the side of "evil" (encourage the A, condemn the AP to perdition). IRL things are far more nuanced and complex, and most people are are mature enough to spot that there are a great many options available besides that.

 

....

 

No you have misunderstood. I was as you noticed, positing the 2 extremes (as I saw them) and asking whether support "encompassed" both of these, which means everything in between as well. I did not suggest these were the only 2 possibilities. However there are certain posters who have seen "support" as just something at one end of the extreme or the other. So I asked to find out what different people thought.

 

I agree that giving advice as if an affair is an addiction when it isn't, may not be the most useful thing to do. On the other hand some people are so clearly in pain from being in affairs that it is hard to advise anything else other than NC.

 

Good and evil is a judgment I didn't make in this post although I have my own views; but good and evil don't feature prominently anyway in my own views. Another poster made the distinction between "support" and "advice". To me there's a subtle difference only, but some people do seek advice so I see no reason to deny that.

[delirious]

Also calling people Cheaters and Liars does not solve anything which has happened many times. It's not supportive obviously it is abuse. One does not need support to continue an affair, just support for feeling lost and in pain which although maybe self inflicted, is still pain nonetheless. People who come on this forum need to have experience of life in order to give an opinion. Many do but many do not. I also think God gets thrown at people far too much. (Let he who is without sin cast the first stone). Nobody comes on here to be beaten up, they come on here because they feel beaten up. Trying to make someone feel worse than they already do, is not supportive, and why would someone do that, how can it make anyone feel better? It is beyond me.

[Devil Inside]

 

Support, IMO, involves firstly finding out where the OP is at, and what they're seeking and needing RIGHT NOW. Yes, they may be in a toxic R, and the best thing for them may well be to walk away from it, but if they're not yet in a position to consider that - or even hear it - then screaming it at them is not going to help - and it won't be supportive, it will be harassing. Support hears them, recognises where they are, and offers them a shoulder as they prepare to take the next step - wherever that might lead them, on their own path to the resolution of their situation.

 

 

 

This is excellent. I completely agree. Supporting the OP, means really putting yourself in their shoes. Trying to see out their eyes. Trying to get a sense of what they are feeling.

 

I really try to figure out what the OP is asking for...if I don't get it...I ask. Sometimes they are asking a question, other times opinions, often times they just want to vent and get feedback or hear of other similar stories. Part of the beauty of this site is knowing that you are not alone.

 

We have to move at a person's pace to truly support them. It makes no sense to tell someone what to do when they are blinded by pain. They may look back later and recognize it was decent advice...but when you hurt I think you need someone to validate that reality.

[Lizzie60]

In other words.. I should add.. if someone is bitter because she/he has been betrayed.. the OW forum is not necessarily good for him/her. They should stay away if it's painful for them to read.. it's that simple.

 

It is a forum for the OWs who live that situation.. In some (most) cases, we (OWs) have no one to tell our stories.. so this is a good venting place.

 

I smile when I read posts from people saying they rarely go on the OW forum because it's too negative, to much bashing.. etc.. but yet.. they know all the stories..

 

I know which threads/forums I need to stay away from.. like any threads about religion.. it does stike a nerve so I stay away... I could be very very very mean on threads like that..

 

Just my 2 cents..

[Impudent Oyster]

Suggesting is one thing; haranguing someone and calling them a whore (as has happened here many times to OW portrayed as unrepentant) is quite another.

 

.

 

This is such a timely thread.

 

A post of mine was flagged for violation because it was not "in a supportive TONE", (which is very subjective). I did NOT harangue anyone or call them names.

 

I sent a reply and here is part of one of those replies which deals exactly my views on support for the OP. I never received a response of whether it was okay or not to post this, so I'll assume it is, since these are my words.

 

"I don't want to start an argument, but I'm genuinely curious as to why you feel that all posts must be supportive? Infidelity is a volatile and painful subject, if someone is doing something harmful to themselves and others, why can't we say so?

 

I AM angry. Angry that people are selfish and self destructive.

 

Being supportive of an affair to me seems to be enabling it, and that should not be anyone's goal.

 

I think OW who want to end affairs or who want to realize and learn from their mistakes should be supported, but those who want to continue, or hide better, or who cause agony to innocent families...how can anyone benefit from supporting that?

 

Don't you think (and I'm asking you as a human being, not a moderator) that those people should get a little reality rubbed in their faces rather than smoke blown up their a$$es about how they aren't hurting anyone and it's all about them and their happiness?

 

Affairs are fantasyland and I sometimes think the overprotection of them by this board perpetuates the fantasy.

 

I honestly can't comprehend that attitude. It's like patting an alcoholic on the head while you buy him a drink.

 

PS - if I were to post the above would you flag it?

[Impudent Oyster]

This is excellent. I completely agree. Supporting the OP, means really putting yourself in their shoes. ..

 

And what if, when in those shoes, the best advice that you can offer is for them to get OUT of an affair?

 

You can support a person but you cannot, in good conscience or common sense, ever support an affair. It is always the wrong option.

 

The best support is to support the OP in ending an affair.

[Impudent Oyster]

Also calling people Cheaters and Liars does not solve anything which has happened many times. It's not supportive obviously it is abuse..

 

Is it abusive to let AP's know how much pain they are causing to others? It is abusive to let them know that they make selfish and destructive choices? Is it abusive for them to realize what they are doing to their self-esteem and self-respect? Is it abusive to enlighten these people to the fact that affairs almost always end badly and cause a great deal of pain for everyone and that 9 times out of 10, it's the OP who gets tossed under the bus?

 

Or is it better to encourage them and help them to maintain the status quo as hidden OP who accept the crumbs?

[Impudent Oyster]

.Nobody comes on here to be beaten up, they come on here because they feel beaten up. ..

 

If they feel beaten up they should step out of the ring.

[Lizzie60]

IO... I have to disagree with you...

 

Not all OW wants to stop their A... some are happy.

 

 

' if someone is doing something harmful to themselves and others, why can't we say so?'

 

nothing wrong.. it's your opinion... it's mostly the way it is said that is the problem.

 

And like I posted before.. it's harmful according to who? it's not always harmful.. it could be helpful..

 

I AM angry. Angry that people are selfish and self destructive..

 

Again.. your point of view.. not necessarily everyone's point of view.

 

I think OW who want to end affairs or who want to realize and learn from their mistakes should be supported, but those who want to continue, or hide better, or who cause agony to innocent families...how can anyone benefit from supporting that?

 

I totally disagree here... not all affairs cause agony to innocent families..

 

Don't you think (and I'm asking you as a human being, not a moderator) that those people should get a little reality rubbed in their faces rather than smoke blown up their a$$es about how they aren't hurting anyone and it's all about them and their happiness?

 

It depends on each individual's reality... we all have different pov on infidelity..

 

Affairs are fantasyland and I sometimes think the overprotection of them by this board perpetuates the fantasy.

 

I again, disagree...

[Lizzie60]

If they feel beaten up they should step out of the ring.

 

Same goes for bitter, angry BS.. they should stay out of the OW forum if they can't take the 'heat'..

[donnamaybe]

That's the beauty of a forum such as this. People DO disagree. If we all had the same exact opinions and advice, then only one person would need to respond.

[Impudent Oyster]

IO... I have to disagree with you...

 

Not all OW wants to stop their A... some are happy.

 

 

' if someone is doing something harmful to themselves and others, why can't we say so?'

 

nothing wrong.. it's your opinion... it's mostly the way it is said that is the problem.

 

And like I posted before.. it's harmful according to who? it's not always harmful.. it could be helpful..

 

I AM angry. Angry that people are selfish and self destructive..

 

Again.. your point of view.. not necessarily everyone's point of view.

 

I think OW who want to end affairs or who want to realize and learn from their mistakes should be supported, but those who want to continue, or hide better, or who cause agony to innocent families...how can anyone benefit from supporting that?

 

I totally disagree here... not all affairs cause agony to innocent families..

 

Don't you think (and I'm asking you as a human being, not a moderator) that those people should get a little reality rubbed in their faces rather than smoke blown up their a$$es about how they aren't hurting anyone and it's all about them and their happiness?

 

It depends on each individual's reality... we all have different pov on infidelity..

 

Affairs are fantasyland and I sometimes think the overprotection of them by this board perpetuates the fantasy.

 

I again, disagree...

 

Lizzie, I do not consider you an OW. You are simply providing sexual favors to married men in return for material gifts.

 

As far as I can tell, you have no emotional investment in the men you provide a service to. That distinguishes you from women who are in affairs and whom I consider to be OW.

 

To be perfectly honest, I have less of a problem with your behavior than I do with OW.