What is "support" in the OM/OW Forum?

[jj33]

OWoman, great posts you rock!

 

And Boldjack SO WHAT if people come here looking for validation? This is a forum for OW/OM support.

 

If YOU dont feel you can support someone who wants validation, then dont respond to their thread. I think the point is that its not appropriate for people to bash or criticize a poster for seeking validation if that is what they are looking for. Those are the the Terms of Service here.

 

You may not agree with their motives or their plan of action but OPs post to seek advice you either want to give them advice that is responsive to the question or you dont.

 

You can be angry that they want validation, but that doesnt give you (not you personally but a general you) the right to bash them in their threads. That anger is your issue, not the OPs issue.

[jj33]

Please post links - I've never seen any of these threads.

 

Actually I remember a few, very few. But they were notable in their tone and the stories were largely those of young women hoping to see the bright lights and share the big wallets of the married men in question.

 

The vast majority of the people posting here are in pain and looking for understanding and ways to cope even if they arent looking to end the A.

[boldjack]

JJ, my point is that "support" does not equal "validation", any more than "tough love", equals "bashing". I'm an exOM, and try to tell the OP's the truth, as I see it, from my experiences. If I do you and others accuse me of having "anger Issues", when that isn't my motivation, at all. I made a post, and you automatically went into attack mode, when I wasn't even talking about you. People here on LS, Bs, WS, OM/OW need to try to listen, before striking out at other posters. I have never personally insulted anybody, nor called anyone names.

[OWoman]

Actually I remember a few, very few. But they were notable in their tone and the stories were largely those of young women hoping to see the bright lights and share the big wallets of the married men in question.

 

Oh - danavladim and suchlike. Right. I guess I'd written them off as trolls, rather than real OWs with real stories.

[OWoman]

JJ, my point is that "support" does not equal "validation", any more than "tough love", equals "bashing". I'm an exOM, and try to tell the OP's the truth, as I see it, from my experiences. If I do you and others accuse me of having "anger Issues", when that isn't my motivation, at all. I made a post, and you automatically went into attack mode, when I wasn't even talking about you. People here on LS, Bs, WS, OM/OW need to try to listen, before striking out at other posters. I have never personally insulted anybody, nor called anyone names.

 

BJ I don't JJ was directing an accusation at you, as her post shows:

 

If YOU dont feel you can support someone who wants validation, then dont respond to their thread. I think the point is that its not appropriate for people to bash or criticize a poster for seeking validation if that is what they are looking for. Those are the the Terms of Service here.

 

You may not agree with their motives or their plan of action but OPs post to seek advice you either want to give them advice that is responsive to the question or you dont.

 

You can be angry that they want validation, but that doesnt give you (not you personally but a general you) the right to bash them in their threads. That anger is your issue, not the OPs issue.

 

I think her point was a more general one - that OWs have the right to seek validation here, and the right to expect that they won't get bashed for it, but will instead receive support (whether group hug or tough love - so long as it's respectful, as defined by the terms of service).

[jj33]

BJ I definitely wasnt talking about you personally thats why I included the portion OWoman bolded (thanks OWoman)- I hope no offense taken.

[Lizzie60]

I also agree that it doesn't really matter what the OW posts about.. could be for validation... for some advices.. to share her story about an amazing new MM... whatever... that's not the point..

 

I don't see the difference with the W posting how lovely her husband is.. how happy she is.. the flowers she got the night before..

 

Who cares really!!!

 

I skip the insignificant posts/threads.. why can't people do the same.

 

I, personally, like to read about 'good' stories.. not just about hurtful experiences..

[boldjack]

I think that I will take a break from the OW/OM threads. Apparently honesty isn't appreciated.

[Lizzie60]

I think that I will take a break from the OW/OM threads. Apparently honesty isn't appreciated.

 

 

Honesty??? What.. honesty IS appreciated.. very much so.

 

You won't find more honest than me..

 

I am not sure I understand why you say that..

[Devil Inside]

Really I think it is all a matter of preference.

 

When I go to the doctor I like hearing.."hey Devil, your weight went up this last year, let me write you a referral to a dietician...altering your diet and getting more exercise would really benefit your health."

 

As opposed to:

 

"You are one fat bast^rd...why don't you put down the cheeseburgers...what did you expect would happen to your weight if you ate like a pig."

 

Both are true statements...but I like the first one...makes me feel a little less judged and like it comes from a place of empathy.

[OWoman]

why don't you put down the cheeseburgers...what did you expect would happen to your weight if you ate like a pig."

 

You know DI, I always wondered what cheeseburgers were fit for. Now I know - pigswill!

 

(sorry - that may have been o/t - but LS really is educational!!)

[NowhereToHide]

I think that I will take a break from the OW/OM threads. Apparently honesty isn't appreciated.

 

 

I think that's the point of this forum. If you don't feel that you can add anything that can help, then taking a break is probably a good thing for all involved. The OW/OM forum may not be the right place for some.

 

And, no one said honesty isn't appreciated. I've taken so much from what people have told me about their experiences and what has and has not worked for them. Honesty is great. Animosity is not.

[jj33]

Myrtle thanks for starting this thread its been incredibly productive and its time was long overdue.

[jj33]

Oh and by the way the sensitivity about support does go both way with some posters. I posted on a thread in the infidelity board a few months ago and was VERY supportive and helpful.

 

The OPs response was that while what I was saying seemed helpful (get a lawyer go to your union etc) that she really couldnt trust my advice because as a former OW i was possibly trying to trick her... so while some people posting on the OW board may feel their voices arent appreciated as much as they should be, it does go both ways for no good reason. That doesnt make it right, but it does go both ways.

[Cliche]

I'd say true support is helping to hold someone up while they work to the point where they are ready to make their own decisions.

 

And it's really not that difficult to be supportive. The judgment that comes into certain topics is always about the person judging and rarely about the person being judged.

[boldjack]

To me, support is helping a person, to end destructive behavior, and to adopt positive character traits. To all others, I want you to tell me, HOW do YOU validate a lie? Interesting question.

[tami-chan]

To me, support is helping a person, to end destructive behavior, and to adopt positive character traits. To all others, I want you to tell me, HOW do YOU validate a lie? Interesting question.

 

but is it the lie that needs validation? or perhaps the emotions of the person/s in the affair? say, if an OM/MM declares "i love my wife, but im in love with OW"-who are we to say that that is a lie? Maybe the OM/MM shared how he feels about the BS and the OW in the hopes that someone here feels the same way and thus "validating" that yes, there is such a dichotomy...

[Tony T]

To me, support is helping a person, to end destructive behavior, and to adopt positive character traits. To all others, I want you to tell me, HOW do YOU validate a lie? Interesting question.

 

If they ask for support to end "destructive behavior" I think we should certainly help them in that direction. However, is it really up to us to decide for another person if their behavior is destructive? To me, remaining in a room for months on end experimenting with different kinds of metals is destructive as hell but it worked for Thomas Edison and got us the light bulb for doing it!

 

If someone asks us to help them change...and asks what direction they should go then we should take that and run with it. No, you don't validate a lie...if you can't give someone what they are seeking, just don't post. I don't think we need to lecture people who didn't come here for that. It's the very best way to drive people off the site. You don't validate a lie...you just don't engage at all. There are way too many other posts on the site that need responses.

 

I don't think we should go around judging what is destructive for other people if they have freely come to this site looking for something specific. I also don't think it's bad to tell someone you aren't able to help them because you believe what they are doing is destructive...BUT JUST LEAVE IT RIGHT THERE...DON'T GO INTO A LONG DISSERTATION AND LECTURE (if you really insist on putting something in their thread.)

[Devil Inside]

but is it the lie that needs validation? or perhaps the emotions of the person/s in the affair? say, if an OM/MM declares "i love my wife, but im in love with OW"-who are we to say that that is a lie? Maybe the OM/MM shared how he feels about the BS and the OW in the hopes that someone here feels the same way and thus "validating" that yes, there is such a dichotomy...

 

I agree with this statement. You can validate an emotion without agreeing with their behavior. Good statement Tami...your heart is showing here.

[Devil Inside]

To me, support is helping a person, to end destructive behavior, and to adopt positive character traits. To all others, I want you to tell me, HOW do YOU validate a lie? Interesting question.

 

I really try not to validate an OP's actions when they do not seem productive or healthy...however, it is hard to judge that from a post many times.

 

I try to validate emotions, and start where the poster is. Often times with some time a person will admit that they are in pain and do not know if they should continue the A and ask advice...that is when it is time to offer suggestions. I think they are more powerful at that point.

 

However, I think it can be helpful to point out how certain actions are making the situation more painful...and this can be done in a way that still validates their emotions. It really can be an art form...but not one that is so difficult to master.

[boldjack]

For the Record- I have never called a poster names, nor have I ever been uncivil. I am direct, which some people are uncomfortable with. I agree with Tami, and DI that it IS possible to validate emotion, without attempting to Validate their behavior. But this is a very slippery slope. I n our hurry to assuage wounded feelings, might not the OP, come to the conclusion that we are indeed approving their actions? Do I lecture? Yes. But not to berate, only to point out possible consequences, and to advance the issue of integrity. What I say is backed up by long experience as a deceitful person, and I believe has merit.

[boldjack]

BTW, I have never been a BS, but have caused a number of them, and have first-hand knowledge of the pain suffered by both they and the OW.OM. I would recommend a little compassion for both.

[OWoman]

To me, support is helping a person, to end destructive behavior, and to adopt positive character traits.

 

BJ that can be quite a subjective call. Someone's behaviour may not be destructive in their context, but to someone from outside of the situation, with a different perspective, they may see it as such. An example of this is a young guy who parties hard - he contains his partying to the weekends, never exceeds the limits experience has taught him to observe, and contains his behaviour withing a group of friends who do the same. His grandmother, OTOH, thinks that drinking hard alcohol to the point of becoming loud and raucous is risky, and his repeating of this pattern most weekends signals to her that he's addicted to a damaging lifestyle. He knows he'll grow out of it and settle down when he's ready; she's seen too many others land up living under a bridge. To him, it's cool; to her it's destructive. Her attempts to "help him" to end his "destructive" behaviour are not likely to be sympathetically received, even though she really means the best for him.

 

To all others, I want you to tell me, HOW do YOU validate a lie? Interesting question.

 

People validate lies every day!

Every time a friend gets an awful haircut she thinks suits her, and no one says to her face, that makes you look so like the back of a bus.... they're validating a lie.

Every time a H mutters incoherently when his W asks if she looks fat in something, he's validating a lie.

Every time BFFs consolingly agree that the new GF of the xBF of their dearest friend is nowhere near as pretty as she, and that the xBF was a fool to dump her... they're validating a lie (assuming that to be the case - some guys do dump hot girls for dogs, but generally people trade up).

 

People do that kind of thing all the time - white lies are the oil that lubricates social interactions.

 

But that's very different to validating someone's feelings, their needs and their basic humanity. It's very different to listening to someone's pain and saying, I hear you, what you're going through hurts, you're hurting, and your hurting is real. That's called empathy - and there's no lie in that.

[NowhereToHide]

To me, support is helping a person, to end destructive behavior, and to adopt positive character traits. To all others, I want you to tell me, HOW do YOU validate a lie? Interesting question.

 

 

 

End destructive character behavior: IF the person is asking for help in how to stop, then YES. If they are happy in an affair and came to this board to understand how to keep it a secret, then they aren't asking for help in it ending. So in that situation, if you aren't comfortable with their "integrity", then DON'T POST.

 

Adopt positive character traits: Since when is it the responsibility of a stranger on a message board to insist on this from another stranger? Since you've written this sentence, it now makes a lot of sense to me why you post what you do. I understand that you're trying to get the OW/OM to develop character and integrity. But when an OW/OM is hurting -- in pain from the loss of the affair, feeling guilt for what they've done, etc., pushing the "everyone must always do the right thing" line isn't helping. I understand where it's coming from, but it isn't helpful.

 

Sometimes posters need to understand that their particular "brand of help" isn't appropriate.

[boldjack]

OW, obviously we are not talking about "white lies", here. NWH, I have NEVER posted anything that would support, or advocate continuing an extra-marital affair. But this goes back to my main point. I think if all of you will read these posts, you should see, that Just because I have advocated honesty in relationships, My opinion has been vilified, and my character has been called into question. I think that I am entitled to the same consideration that all other OW/OM's receive. Don't gang up on me if you disagree with me. I am sorry for the thread-Jack, but was only trying to defend myself, and my opinions. If any want to go further into this, PM me and I will be happy to answer.:)