What is "support" in the OM/OW Forum?

[herenow]

Herenow I think you add a lot i wasn't suggesting you dont. I usually like your posts (not that my opinion matters but I do) what I meant and this wasnt directed at you per se is that everyone posts from their own perspective to a large degree, but sometimes what we feel someone should hear or needs to hear isnt really related to what they are asking about (prime example Nowhere to Hide and her decision to tell her spouse).

 

OK, I get it. Sometimes we just have to agree to disagree. BTW, I agree 100% that everyone posts from their own perspective because it's all all we have to base our opinion on.

 

But I do think everyone, even if you or I don't agree with them, has valuable input and I would hate to see someone not post their opinion out of fear that it wasn't what another person wants to hear.

 

It didn't matter to me when another poster called me bitter, that was her opinion. But, she really didn't like my opinion, so that is how that whole thing started. And (if I'm going to be honest) maybe a bit of PMS

[Devil Inside]

In the end I think that we can agree and disagree on some things.

 

We agree that we all are trying to help the OP...regardless of our preferred methods..we are all trying to help them.

 

Where we disagree is on what is helpful. That is OK.

 

I will admit that I got off the topic of giving the OP of this thread support..something that I am saying we should all try to do..should start with me.

 

If I offended anyone..it was not my intention. Trust me, my words about you mean way less then your words mean about yourself...that is the real currency of this place..what you write..we should all choose our words carefully.

 

I can tell you from my own experience that a lot of the most helpful support I got was from people that had opposing viewpoints. Owl, NID, and Snowflower for example have all helped me immensly. Rather than me talking about what isn't heplpful maybe I should just point to their posting as an example of how an opposing point can be put across in a empathic and caring fashion.

 

There are many ways to help...I mean Dr. Phil and Dr. Laura make millions. I agree with a lot of what they say...but I wouldn't send a friend that is hurt in their direction. However, many would. Tough love works for some...and there is plenty of this on the site.

 

Hey Tony...this is an awesome site..thanks for letting us hash this out so long.

 

See the rest of you out there.

[MSUE]

To answer the bolded part; actually, no I don't think it is obvious to some. Some will swear up and down that the MM they are seeing doesn't lie.. and then when someone does say "well, does their wife know about you", it turns into "well, no, but he doesn't lie to ME". Really? He lies to the one he made vows with and married, but not to the OW?

 

there we go...right on...this actually happens more and more and more...anyone in the right mindset knows that they lie ...all parties lies...an A is based of a lie...if there were no lies involved there would be no A...I see it all the time on that forum...OW/OM swearing up and down they are being told the truth...NEWSFLASH! that's maybe the case in 1% if that

[Devil Inside]

As an observation, this thread is a prime example of what happens in this forum. No matter how tactful anyone says anything, someone gets hurt and upset. If someone posts the sky is blue, there will be 10 anaecdoetal examples of cloudy days.

 

Bottom line. If you're not enabling, you're not considered supportive, except from the OW/OM/WS who've left the affair and realized what an awful situation they once were in.

 

I don't agree with that. In fact, on many occassions I have not enabled and I would guess, in my humble opinion, that I have helped at least a few people out there.

[NowhereToHide]

OK, I get it. Sometimes we just have to agree to disagree. BTW, I agree 100% that everyone posts from their own perspective because it's all all we have to base our opinion on.

 

But I do think everyone, even if you or I don't agree with them, has valuable input and I would hate to see someone not post their opinion out of fear that it wasn't what another person wants to hear.

 

It didn't matter to me when another poster called me bitter, that was her opinion. But, she really didn't like my opinion, so that is how that whole thing started. And (if I'm going to be honest) maybe a bit of PMS

 

 

Really? PMS? Very sensitive of you.

 

You missed my point completely. You never seemed intent on "helping" movingforward... and you have to admit that your "behind her back" insults were uncalled for. Yes, you stated it was opinion, but you seemed more like you were out for blood.

 

Yes, herenow. I have read some of your other posts... I believe that I even commented once on one that one of them was great. I don't think you do what you did with MF all the time. But she and her situation rubbed you the wrong way (because of your own issues probably), so you engaged in some insults.

 

Again, if you can't provide HELP to the OW, then don't post on this board. Move on to a thread where you CAN help.

[delajoonal]

It takes extremely open minded, intelligent and mature individuals to give an ear to the people who come into this category and I am grateful that we have those here who can treat the subject sensitively.

so basically, you are saying, that if the OP that do NOT approve OR believe in Affairs or cheating or betrayal...

then those OP are NOT open minded, NOT intelligent, and NOT mature????

 

hmmm??? seems to me that YOU are being ONESIDED and NOT open minded...to ALL peoples feelings, opinions and advice??

 

sorry, i thought LS was MORE than that:cool:

i thought that LS was EXACTYLY THAT...and OPEN forum for ALL who are hurting and need TLC....be it in a the OW/OM or the BS.

[fooled once]

Really? PMS? Very sensitive of you.

 

You missed my point completely. You never seemed intent on "helping" movingforward... and you have to admit that your "behind her back" insults were uncalled for. Yes, you stated it was opinion, but you seemed more like you were out for blood.

 

Yes, herenow. I have read some of your other posts... I believe that I even commented once on one that one of them was great. I don't think you do what you did with MF all the time. But she and her situation rubbed you the wrong way (because of your own issues probably), so you engaged in some insults.

 

Again, if you can't provide HELP to the OW, then don't post on this board. Move on to a thread where you CAN help.

 

Isn't this just what was discussed -- you are now deciding herenow has 'issues' and you know what her 'intent' was?

 

As with all threads -- take what you need and leave the rest. NONE of us can without a doubt decide what another posters intent is and as stated already, this is a public forum.

 

You may not have agreed with herenow's post and that is totally fine. But aren't you engaging insults now?

 

This thread has really been very helpful IMHO and I am glad it was started and has gone along the way it has. Thanks to everyone for their thoughts and views and while there were disagreements, for the most part, they were all handled very nicely.

[Tony]

Bottom line. If you're not enabling, you're not considered supportive, except from the OW/OM/WS who've left the affair and realized what an awful situation they once were in.

 

That's not true at all. You can give constructive advice and not be enabling or sarcastic or insulting. It takes practice. You never, ever have to say what somebody else wants to hear. You should always be honest and express your true feelings...but without calling someone a dirty, home-wrecking street whore...that's all.

[NowhereToHide]

Isn't this just what was discussed -- you are now deciding herenow has 'issues' and you know what her 'intent' was?

 

As with all threads -- take what you need and leave the rest. NONE of us can without a doubt decide what another posters intent is and as stated already, this is a public forum.

 

You may not have agreed with herenow's post and that is totally fine. But aren't you engaging insults now?

 

This thread has really been very helpful IMHO and I am glad it was started and has gone along the way it has. Thanks to everyone for their thoughts and views and while there were disagreements, for the most part, they were all handled very nicely.

 

 

Fooled once... I don't see how I insulted her at all. As I stated, I don't think she makes a habit of doing what she did in that one instance. I have actually gotten some good insight from her. What I was doing was using that one post of an example of what is NOT considered supportive. And as many people have stated previously, we all bring our own "issues" to these boards. There isn't one of us without "issues".

 

And stating that one should just "take what you need and leave the rest" pretty much negates this entire thread. I think what DI and many others have said that there is some responsibility on this board to find out what the OP needs and give constructive, even compassionate advice.

 

I am grateful to everyone on here that has helped me.

[Trialbyfire]

That's not true at all. You can give constructive advice and not be enabling or sarcastic or insulting. It takes practice. You never, ever have to say what somebody else wants to hear. You should always be honest and express your true feelings...but without calling someone a dirty, home-wrecking street whore...that's all.

I'm glad to hear this Tony. I'll be practicing often!

[Tony]

so basically, you are saying, that if the OP that do NOT approve OR believe in Affairs or cheating or betrayal...

then those OP are NOT open minded, NOT intelligent, and NOT mature????

 

hmmm??? seems to me that YOU are being ONESIDED and NOT open minded...to ALL peoples feelings, opinions and advice??

 

Not at all. An open minded person is a person who is non judgmental and open to all types of behavior and situations. An open minded person can listen to another's need for support without judging them as a slut, sinner, bad person or whatever. An open minded person may have their own opinions but they are sharp enough not to let their own views impair their vision for others.

 

I think to be open minded, you have to be very mature and clear your mind of biases and prejudices that stand in the way of giving solid, supportive advice without pouncing into the one who needs help.

 

I am quite open to all people's feelings, opinions, etc. That's why I have been participating in this thread. However, I am not open minded enough to let everyone make up their own rules for this forum. It just doesn't work that way. Every organization has guidelines and this one is no different. I'm very sorry you don't understand but I will keep working towards that goal.

 

I am also NOT open minded enough to allow members to violate the terms they freely agreed to when they joined the site.

 

I will say that I am open minded enough NOT to give infractions to 98 percent of the people who go off topic and otherwise create violations of guidelines and terms of service in these forums. I give them out intermittently as a reminder to various people that I am still around and they should review the guidelines THEY AGREED TO so they can be better members of the community.

 

Also, I want everyone to know that I have NEVER, the ten years, deleted EVEN ONE POST because I disagreed with the advice that was given...although I can tell you it happens often. I don't even comment on it. I give our members credit for having the intelligence to know what will work for them and what won't.

[MSUE]

 

I think to be open minded, you have to be very mature and clear your mind of biases and prejudices that stand in the way of giving solid, supportive advice without pouncing into the one who needs help.

 

 

this is so right on...I couldn't think of a more accurate definition of what open-minded really means...and truthfully although many claim to be so...very few truly are

[Tony]

I'm glad to hear this Tony. I'll be practicing often!

 

I probably should have added that you can do this without a lengthy lecture about how what they're doing will get them a lengthy stay in hell. Many people here whose religious and life views are very critical of betrayal, and I think most are, are so passionate that they post as if on a mission to end all cheating in the world forever. That's not our mission here. Cheating will only end when the world ends, in my opinion.

[Trialbyfire]

I probably should have added that you can do this without a lengthy lecture about how what they're doing will get them a lengthy stay in hell. Many people here whose religious and life views are very critical of betrayal, and I think most are, are so passionate that they post as if on a mission to end all cheating in the world forever. That's not our mission here. Cheating will only end when the world ends, in my opinion.

Since I've become an atheist, religion won't play any role in my advice or opinions.

[bentnotbroken]

Why should support in this forum have a different definition than in any area of life, or LS for that matter.

 

To me support is not....

 

Telling someone what they want to hear...

 

Or encouraging someone to continue self destructive behavior...

 

 

ymmv

 

 

Exactly...................

[Tony]

Since I've become an atheist, religion won't play any role in my advice or opinions.

 

That's all the better!!!

[Lizzie60]

Tony.. this thread is GREAT!!!!!

 

You should participate MORE OFTEN.. it's nice to have YOUR point of view.. We know you as the 'big bad moderator' who gives infractions.. but we don't know you as the person like we discovered today.. that was great..

 

Gosh I love well-spoken.. intelligent men..

[Tony]

Why should support in this forum have a different definition than in any area of life, or LS for that matter.

 

To me support is not....

 

Telling someone what they want to hear...

 

Or encouraging someone to continue self destructive behavior...

 

 

ymmv

 

It shouldn't, absolutely not. If you aren't giving your own heartfelt advice based on your unbiased, unprejudiced common sense but rather telling people what you think they want to hear YOU ARE NOT DOING THEM A SERVICE. However, if in advising them you tear them down, belittle them or otherwise make them feel like total shxt like so many posts here do then you'll get busted for it.

 

No, you should never encourage destructive behavior...but, again, you can advise people to take a difference course in a constructive way without tearing them down.

 

Why is this concept so difficult for people here to understand. I'm frankly getting a bit frightened of all this...........

[Tony]

Tony.. this thread is GREAT!!!!!

 

You should participate MORE OFTEN.. it's nice to have YOUR point of view.. We know you as the 'big bad moderator' who gives infractions.. but we don't know you as the person like we discovered today.. that was great..

 

Gosh I love well-spoken.. intelligent men..

 

It's extremely difficult to monitor the site, answer problem reports, respond to PMs (most of which complain about infractions) and then also participate in the forums. Time usually doesn't allow that. I have a bit of extra time now because of the depression...but hopefully the country will soon recover and I'll be busier at work again.

 

Thank you for your kind words.

[NowhereToHide]

It shouldn't, absolutely not. If you aren't giving your own heartfelt advice based on your unbiased, unprejudiced common sense but rather telling people what you think they want to hear YOU ARE NOT DOING THEM A SERVICE. However, if in advising them you tear them down, belittle them or otherwise make them feel like total shxt like so many posts here do then you'll get busted for it.

 

No, you should never encourage destructive behavior...but, again, you can advise people to take a difference course in a constructive way without tearing them down.

 

Why is this concept so difficult for people here to understand. I'm frankly getting a bit frightened of all this...........

 

 

Tony, you just posted the answer in your last thread (which was dead on). Some people cannot see beyond their biases and prejudices to give advice which is constructive and helpful.

[Lizzie60]

It's extremely difficult to monitor the site, answer problem reports, respond to PMs (most of which complain about infractions) and then also participate in the forums. Time usually doesn't allow that. I have a bit of extra time now because of the depression...but hopefully the country will soon recover and I'll be busier at work again.

 

Thank you for your kind words.

 

OMG.. Tony.. you're having a depression.. poor baby.. We'll help you sweetheart..

[herenow]

Really? PMS? Very sensitive of you.

 

You missed my point completely. You never seemed intent on "helping" movingforward... and you have to admit that your "behind her back" insults were uncalled for. Yes, you stated it was opinion, but you seemed more like you were out for blood.

 

Yes, herenow. I have read some of your other posts... I believe that I even commented once on one that one of them was great. I don't think you do what you did with MF all the time. But she and her situation rubbed you the wrong way (because of your own issues probably), so you engaged in some insults.

 

Again, if you can't provide HELP to the OW, then don't post on this board. Move on to a thread where you CAN help.

 

I really don't get how me admitting that I had a bit of PMS is a problem, but sorry f that offended you (even though I did have PMS, but oh well, I guess I can't say it).

 

BTW, I believe it was the other way around. I think my opinion rubbed her the wrong way. She did say some "not so nice" things about me. But, that's her opinion and I'm fine with it. She just wasn't fine with my opinion. Goes both ways. And, nothing was behind anyone's back. It was all right there for the world to see.

 

Getting back to the point of this thread. I agree that there is more to gain by being polite. I also have to say that since this is such a volatile subject, it does get heated and I certainly have been in the fire many times. This is still a great place for support no matter how it's given.

[Impudent Oyster]

I just don't get why you feel the need to post here, quite frankly. Your posts are so demeaning, hurtful and insensitive. You obviously have a lot of anger from your particular situation, but it seems like it would benefit you to take a look inward to deal with some of your anger issues. These women who have made mistakes don't deserve your hatred. It's just sad.

 

What on earth are you talking about??????

 

The ONE TIME I responded to and quoted one of your posts, it was to applaud you and agree with you. Go on, look, it's in the Infidelity forum.

 

Obviously you have me confused with another poster.

[NowhereToHide]

I really don't get how me admitting that I had a bit of PMS is a problem, but sorry f that offended you (even though I did have PMS, but oh well, I guess I can't say it).

 

BTW, I believe it was the other way around. I think my opinion rubbed her the wrong way. She did say some "not so nice" things about me. But, that's her opinion and I'm fine with it. She just wasn't fine with my opinion. Goes both ways. And, nothing was behind anyone's back. It was all right there for the world to see.

 

Getting back to the point of this thread. I agree that there is more to gain by being polite. I also have to say that since this is such a volatile subject, it does get heated and I certainly have been in the fire many times. This is still a great place for support no matter how it's given.

 

Herenow... That just goes to show how much is lost in translation on these threads... I thought you were saying the other poster had PMS... my apologies.

 

My point about bringing up that thread wasn't to put you in the line of fire. It was to give an example of what is and isn't helpful. You have often said that you just give "opinion", but that I think is partly what is at issue. When many people think they're just giving opinion, how that ends up being translated is judgement.

 

I know that I have been pretty hurt by some of the things that have been said to me on here. Should I grow a thicker skin? Probably. Does it have something to do with my own guilt and issues? Of course. But OW that come to THIS board (which by the way is for THEM to use for help), shouldn't feel like they are going to get judged and reamed for doing or not doing something that a poster doesn't agree with (under the guise of "hey! I'm just giving my opinion!"). It just doesn't help and often doesn't add anything useful. Everyone here deserves to be treated with respect, even if you don't agree with their decisions.

[Impudent Oyster]

I find that in every post, I need to state that "in my opinion" or "I think" or "based on my experience...".

Even then I'm accuse of being a bitter BW who is only trying to hurt others.

 

I'm sorry if my opinion hurts others, but that doesn't change my opinion. I have never called anyone any names, but if I imply that I feel someone is doing something I don't agree with, I'm accused of bashing.

 

 

I agree with this completely. The bottomline is, the OW/OM obviously don't want to hear anything at all from the BS. They want us to go away, just like they want us to go away in their real lives...if only we didn't exist, all their problems would disappear.

 

Just go back a few pages, didn't one poster come right out and say that BS should be banned from this forum? What is she afraid of? If they don't hear from us, it's easier to remain in denial. There are OP who will tell you point blank that their MM might lie to their spouse, but would NEVER lie to them. In fact, I'm sure someone said it just yesterday, but I won't mention who since I'll be given an infraction for insulting them (simply for stating a fact).

 

It's so much easier to perpetuate the fantasy without being reminded that maybe, just maybe, affairs are a really bad idea.