Still after all of this time.....

[HisSweetThing]

It almost predatory in nature as you take every opportunity to express your anger and bitterness towards people you dont even know in an effort to make yourselves feel better that somehow by hurting others you justify your own hatred towards someone else.

 

When someone comes here to post as I have who is clearly hurting and searching for answers not from this forum (I never did ask for anyones opinion) but from myself not only do you not comment on my direct statements but you make the gross over generalization that I am a bad and evil person just because I made a mistake which BTW I have admitted to and have spent the last 2 years trying to make up for and will probably continue to do so for the rest of my days. If everyone was treated like you have treated me here because of mistakes we all have made then I fear everyone on earth would condemn and stand in judgement of everyone else.

 

NL, that is the reason I stopped posting shortly after I joined LS. I actually feel sorry for the people who only want to judge us. I feel your pain and I respect the decisions you have made. I hope you find peace.

[jj33]

Never Late sorry if you are feeling abused its been a problem on this forum there was a thread about what is support in this forum, obviously you are not feeling supported by many of hte responses here

[Devil Inside]

All,

 

 

Given the circumstances I feel I have done the best that I can. If all of you think that the best way is to spill my guts to my wife and tell her every sordid detail destroying her in the process, I dont think so. But from what I can see on this forum it hasnt changed much. A bunch of jilted, bitter, angry people seeking revenge even if its by living vicariously through the pain and suffering of others.

 

NL

 

Of course you should not spill your guts about every little thing in your head...I too think that would be a bad idea.

 

I also applaud that you are looking within yourself to see why it is that you have had such a hard time letting go of the xOW.

 

As a WS in a similar situation I know your pain. My therapist told me that I never would have known what the future would have been like with xOW. May have been great, may have not been so great...either way we know it would have been different then it was in the affair. That is the truth.

 

Good luck man.

[whichwayisup]

Shame on you.

 

I'm sorry if I have offended you NL.. I'm not bitter at all and if my words have come across rude, wasn't meant to.. I'm just trying to get you to think more, that's all. To tell your wife all the details now wouldn't be helpful to you, I get that..

 

All I ask is you actively try your best to NOT think of exOW. NOt to allow yourself to feel those feelings, to fantasize or think of her.. You can break the connection by closing your heart off and focus that energy into your wife.

[NeverLate]

Thanks WWIU, I hear, understand and appreciate what you have said. I will do my best to cut off the xOW, to open these feelings up to my wife and try to "re-route" the connection to where it belongs.

 

NL

[HisSweetThing]

You can break the connection by closing your heart off.

 

But how does one do that? How does one close their heart off?

[whichwayisup]

Thanks WWIU, I hear, understand and appreciate what you have said. I will do my best to cut off the xOW, to open these feelings up to my wife and try to "re-route" the connection to where it belongs.

 

NL

 

You're welcome..

 

But how does one do that? How does one close their heart off?

 

You re-train your brain and replace with other thoughts. Keep busy and every time your mind wanders off to where it shouldn't be, FIGHT IT. Make yourself just stop fantasizing and thinking.. Go out, call a friend, put on music, do some cleaning, anything to distract yourself from the thoughts. Take control back and fight it, don't give in.

 

I learned all this stuff in CBT (cognitive behaviour therapy) as I suffered from anxiety and panic attacks in the past.. It can apply to just about anything in life, affairs, pain, death of a loved one, or any other crisis..

 

HisSweetThing, you have to want to close yourself off..That's the key!

[fooled once]

All,

 

First, to answer the question that WWIU answered for me, I am not sure I would have left my wife. I ask myself that question often. When my xOW was trying to leave her H for me, I could have moved out myself. This may have changed things altogether. So when faced with the reality of leaving who knows how it would have turned out. Maybe in the end xOW sensed my indecision and decided to stay herself. Only she knows.

 

As far as one line emails are concerned, they are business only and usually there is more than one person on distribution so I would hardly consider that a means to maintain "the connection"

 

WWIU you act as if my continuing to pine away for xOW is my choice. I would contend as I said at the opening of this thread that its not. I pray every day that it goes away that it stops.

 

Given the circumstances I feel I have done the best that I can. If all of you think that the best way is to spill my guts to my wife and tell her every sordid detail destroying her in the process, I dont think so. But from what I can see on this forum it hasnt changed much. A bunch of jilted, bitter, angry people seeking revenge even if its by living vicariously through the pain and suffering of others.

 

Shame on you.

 

NL

 

Wow. Because you don't like the responses given to you, you have resorted to name calling and sterotyping people.

 

I think what so many are saying is if your wife knew you 'long' for your OW, she would want OUT of the marriage. To accept and forgive the affair is one thing; for you to continue to long for the OW is another. I hardly call telling your wife that you long for another woman spilling your guts. It is called being truthful. It is called respecting your wife enough to tell her the TRUTH of your feelings and giving her the opportunity to decide if she wants to be with a man who longs for another woman.

 

You aren't helping yourself or being true to yourself when you decide to withhold vital things from your wife.

 

And if you didn't want any opinions, why post?

 

I actually think over the last couple of days, things here have really changed/settled down. I see a lot more of "IMHO" and "my thoughts". I guess the only responses people continue to want are agreement with actions and thoughts....

Edited October 6, 2009 by fooled once

[Devil Inside]

I hardly call telling your wife that you long for another woman spilling your guts. It is called being truthful. It is called respecting your wife enough to tell her the TRUTH of your feelings and giving her the opportunity to decide if she wants to be with a man who longs for another woman.

 

I can see this point. I think that there is a big difference. I think that you can talk to your wife about where you are at in a direct and gentle as possible way...although the general message will hurt.

 

My wife knows that the love I have for OW has changed me...and that it is the core reason for my ambivalence in the marriage. We do not talk about this everyday. She knows I am in therapy to work on this. She knows that I have a time line for myself. She probably has one for her. She knows that I take a proactive stance on putting the OW out of my heart...and putting her back there. She has chosen to stay with me while I work on this. Not forever...but for now. If we end up working this out then I will be forever grateful that she loved me enough to stay for this.

[jwi71]

Actually...does your W know of your A?

What does she know?

[confusedinkansas]

Wow NL - they are kind of beating the crap out of ya aren't they?

I've been in your shoes - On both counts.

1) being berated here in LS because of feelings &

2) still having thoughts, feelings, memories etc of my affair partner.

 

I know the struggles you're going thru. It's a very difficult road.

You can't just turn your feelings off like a water faucet. Yes, 2 years is a long time, but some people here don't understand, after you've spent a significant amount of time with someone, you develop a bond. (Yes, it is agreed that IF the affair had not taken place - The feelings would NOT be there.......that's a moot point now) There are memories - those just don't disappear & they can be triggerred at any given moment. No one can stop what pops into your head, you just deal with it, push it to the back of your mind & move on the best you can.

 

My situation is very much like yours ~ I wish I had some good advice on how to make it stop, but I don't. As for your still having contact with her - well, that happens. You can't just up & quit a good job, change phone numbers, emails, HIDE from people. You have to just deal the best you can. {{hug}} I hope you can learn to deal with these issues & feelings. (It's harder than most think it is) And, don't let them bully you here. Take their advice with a grain of salt.

[NowhereToHide]

So:

* romantic and good sex = not real

* not romantic and bad sex = real

 

That is one depressing outlook on relationships...

 

I think that if you had romance in your M, you would not miss the OW so much.

 

Call me idealistic but I would want my M to be a place where we care about each other, where we are good friends and passionate lovers. I think if you have all that, there is no need for an A.

 

 

A very simplistic view (and yes idealistic).

 

My M is a place where we care about each other, where we are good (best) friends and passionate lovers.

 

And I still had an affair.

 

What so many people on the "other" side fail to realize is that some people have affairs primarily because of a defect in themselves, NOT their marriage. My affair was because of me -- my insecurities and baggage. Was I close to my husband before the affair? Sure. As close as we had been in the past, no, due to all of the pressures involved with raising children and having a life together.

 

I definitely made my connection worse with my husband by having the A, but it wasn't bad to begin with. Sometimes the spouse doesn't really play much of a role.

[NowhereToHide]

All,

 

First, to answer the question that WWIU answered for me, I am not sure I would have left my wife. I ask myself that question often. When my xOW was trying to leave her H for me, I could have moved out myself. This may have changed things altogether. So when faced with the reality of leaving who knows how it would have turned out. Maybe in the end xOW sensed my indecision and decided to stay herself. Only she knows.

 

As far as one line emails are concerned, they are business only and usually there is more than one person on distribution so I would hardly consider that a means to maintain "the connection"

 

WWIU you act as if my continuing to pine away for xOW is my choice. I would contend as I said at the opening of this thread that its not. I pray every day that it goes away that it stops.

 

Given the circumstances I feel I have done the best that I can. If all of you think that the best way is to spill my guts to my wife and tell her every sordid detail destroying her in the process, I dont think so. But from what I can see on this forum it hasnt changed much. A bunch of jilted, bitter, angry people seeking revenge even if its by living vicariously through the pain and suffering of others.

 

Shame on you.

 

NL

 

 

NL, I have not told my husband about my A. My AP is out of my life, I know it will never happen again, and I now understand why I did what I did. He would be beyond crushed if I confessed. And as I search my feelings as to why I would be confessing, it would be to unburden ME, NOT to help him.

 

I have been lambasted over and over on this board for my decision. Many have very "black and white" opinions that you must divulge EVERYTHING to your spouse, even if it would destroy them (and your children).

 

For them everything must be divulged.... Are you thinking about your AP -- THEN TELL YOUR WIFE. Did you have a dream about her -- THEN TELL YOUR WIFE. Do you still fantasize about having sex with her, -- THEN TELL YOUR WIFE. They say you should do it under the guise of love and respect, but it's never considered about NOT doing that out of love and respect.

 

Every situation is different. There isn't a frickin' manual for this stuff. You need to rebuild your marriage and you are closest to the situation to know what is necessary to make that happen.

 

As for you still thinking about her, it does take time. My therapist helped me a lot with a few techniques called "thought-stopping" and "silent ridicule"... I believe they are in a book called "How to get over the loss of a love". Getting over her will take ACTION. You can't just pray for it to happen (I tried that!). You must make the effort to get her out of her head. If I hadn't, I know I'd still be fantasizing about my AP.

 

Good luck to you. And keep posting. We'll be here.

[NeverLate]

Thanks to everyone who has tried to understand what I have been saying even though you may not agree with my actions or methods. Someone here asked me why post? I posted because I needed to express myself. I needed to spit out what I feel and what I have been going through. I never asked for anyones advice or for anyone to agree disagree, support or anything else for that matter.

 

Sometimes people just need to get what has been building up inside of them out so they can move on. That is me. I dont want or need anyones approval for to me feel better about myself. What I needed was to just write about what I have been feeling and thinking. Am I proud of what has happened? Not on your life. But it is what it is and I so want to move on. Pretty simple.

 

What I said was that despite my best efforts I have been unable to shake these feelings I have for a woman other than my wife. I dont welcome those feelings, I dont want them but they appear to want me. I hope that like many of you time will calm these feelings and ultimately I will forget them and most importantly they will forget me.

 

My marriage is pretty good right now. From the content and tone of many of your comments, I suspect my relationship may in fact be better than many of yours. Who knows? I'm no expert but I would be willing to guess that a few of you are unable to maintain a relationship of any substance at all because of the hate and distrust you harbor in your hearts. No need to name names, you know who you are.

 

For that I pity you. Maybe you dont want my pity but here ya go anyway. after all you gave me your condemnation and judgement when I didnt ask for it so I guess its only fair.

 

NL

[jwi71]

Sometimes people just need to get what has been building up inside of them out so they can move on. That is me. I dont want or need anyones approval for to me feel better about myself. What I needed was to just write about what I have been feeling and thinking. Am I proud of what has happened? Not on your life. But it is what it is and I so want to move on. Pretty simple.

 

And yet you haven't moved on.

TWO YEARS...NO better.

 

I went back and skimmed your postings going back those two years and was struck by their sameness. Have you gone back and re-read what you wrote all those years ago? Do they seem VERY similar to what you now write? Honestly, aside from some date references, any post you wrote back then could be pasted here and "make sense". No one would be able to tell you wrote them years ago.

 

NOTHING changed.

 

What do you think will happen in the next two years? Five? Will your posts then be any different from those now? Not likely. Again, go back and read.

 

Time to change. Something. ANYTHING.

 

What can YOU change? What changes are you WILLING to make? What ACTIONS can you affect...to start the wheels of change slowly turning?

 

Have you been to MC?

How about IC?

Changed jobs?

Gone on a romantic 2 week vacation with your W?

Lost those 20 pounds?

Started a journal/diary?

What I said was that despite my best efforts I have been unable to shake these feelings I have for a woman other than my wife. I dont welcome those feelings, I dont want them but they appear to want me. I hope that like many of you time will calm these feelings and ultimately I will forget them and most importantly they will forget me.

This is NOT true. You have not made "best efforts". You STILL contact her. Did you ever consider that even "professional" contact is contact? How can you say you have no contact when you do?

 

My friend...whatever these best efforts are...not working. Not good enough. That much is clear. Maybe its time to think about doing something different (see the baove for a good place to start). Actually, what have you DONE to move on? NL, you still have her on the pedestal for pete's sake when her actions clearly say "not a winner".

 

Let me ask this...would you want your son (if you have one) to marry a woman like her? If your son told to you what you have shared here...what advice would you give? Would you tell him to leave his wife and children for her? Or would you say something different?

[MaureyL]

NeverLate, it does sound like you didn't have the option of being with your OW. I am sorry for that because it does sound as if she is really the one that you love in all ways. But, I understand that.. given the situation.. that you felt like the right thing to do was to work on things with your wife. I agree that continuing in an affair would not be best for either one of you. Good luck and I hope these feelings ease for you. (and me )

 

This was true for me too and for a lot of us, probably. I left my husband and I would have given the earth and sky above to be able to have my "affair partner." But he moved with his girlfriend and I haven't seen him since.

 

Like your OW, he eventually wanted just "to be friends" and talk about his school, etc. But that was too painful-- incredibly painful. All it did was prove to me that he never felt the depth of passion and love that I felt for him. Also, he is/was a young man and I'm sure that has something to do with it as well. I don't judge him but it's hard to forget him crying his eyes out on the last day we saw one another....

 

It's good to write about these things. I wouldn't pay too much attention to those people here who want to make moral judgements. The whole thing is a lot more complicated than that, I feel.... xx

[whichwayisup]

I don't see anyone who has been totally out of line, nor disrespectful. Some harsh words have been said, but it's because the OP needs to hear it. Noone has ranted, been rude - again, harsh yes, but bitter? Sorry, but I don't see it. Nor have I seen judgement..Trust me, what's been posted on NL's thread isn't judgement, not even close. People care and the harshness of some words are trying to get him to open his eyes, be completely honest with himself.

[NowhereToHide]

I don't see anyone who has been totally out of line, nor disrespectful. Some harsh words have been said, but it's because the OP needs to hear it. Noone has ranted, been rude - again, harsh yes, but bitter? Sorry, but I don't see it. Nor have I seen judgement..Trust me, what's been posted on NL's thread isn't judgement, not even close. People care and the harshness of some words are trying to get him to open his eyes, be completely honest with himself.

 

 

I think when people are in pain, they sometimes can't "hear" the hard stuff. And there's probably some shame that he hasn't been able to let his AP go.

 

I hope he got something helpful out of this thread, anyway.

[herenow]

My marriage is pretty good right now. From the content and tone of many of your comments, I suspect my relationship may in fact be better than many of yours. Who knows? I'm no expert but I would be willing to guess that a few of you are unable to maintain a relationship of any substance at all because of the hate and distrust you harbor in your hearts. No need to name names, you know who you are.

 

For that I pity you. Maybe you dont want my pity but here ya go anyway. after all you gave me your condemnation and judgement when I didnt ask for it so I guess its only fair.

 

NL

 

Ya know NL, IMO, you are out of line here. Just because some people have voiced their opinion doesn't make us bitter or anything else you have claimed we are.

 

Some of us feel that honestly about the fact that you have feelings for any other woman might be an important thing to admit to your wife. I feel that any relationship needs honesty to be solid. Anything short of it at such a fragile time, IMO, would hinder a true reconciliation.

 

So because of that, I'm bitter and I have hate issues? And you feel that because of my opinion, I can't maintain a relationship?

 

OK, NL, but you did post on a public site and if all you really wanted are a bunch of "poor NL" posts, here goes: Poor NL, I hope you find happiness and everything you are looking for in life.

 

And, you can have your pity back three fold.

[Fallen Angel]

First, I would like to say that if i have in anyway been cruel or judgemental I apologize.

 

My reason for saying/asking the things I did was to try and understand.

 

My comments about you not making your wife your first choice stemmed from what I read in what you wrote. You stated that the reason you were no longer in your affair, or with your affair partner was because she ended the relationship, NOT because you realized you loved your wife and wanted to fix what was broken in your marriage.

 

The way you said things made it sound TO ME as though if she had left her husband you would have left your wife and tried to have a relationship with her, and that the reason you are in your marriage and trying to make it work was because you had NO OTHER CHOICE since your affair partner MADE THE CHOICE FOR YOU. That is just my opinion, take it or leave it.

 

Perhaps you should re-read your first few posts here, and try to see it as an outsider would see it.

 

I am not trying to be bitter. I am not trying to be cruel. I am just trying to point out that if you are still this unhappy after two years, that maybe it is time to give up trying to rekindle with your wife what is obviously not there, and allow HER to move on to greener pastures. I think that it is unfair to YOUR WIFE to only allow her the love that you have LEFT OVER after STILL LOVING your xMOW.

 

Obviously the relationship with the xMOW is not an option, even if you divorce, however I think you are cheating your wife and YOURSELF out of the possibility of finding your TRUE SOULMATES.

 

Call me whatever you will, but IN MY OPINION it is wrong, and I think it is selfish. I think that the MOST LOVING thing you can do for your wife and yourself is to admit that the connection you BOTH deserve is not there, and let go.

 

It is not cruel to, LOVINGLY and with the best intentions for ALL INVOLVED, end a relationship that is not working. I think that it is much kinder than stuffing your feelings and never allowing your partner to experience the kind of love that you have experienced and are now pining for. EVERYONE deserves to be loved like that, and sometimes the way you can best show someone how much you do love them, is to let them go.

 

Again, these are just my opinions, my observations.

[herenow]

Very well said Fallen Angel. I agree 100% with all of your post.

[cianne]

So:

* romantic and good sex = not real

* not romantic and bad sex = real

 

That is one depressing outlook on relationships...

 

I think that if you had romance in your M, you would not miss the OW so much.

 

Call me idealistic but I would want my M to be a place where we care about each other, where we are good friends and passionate lovers. I think if you have all that, there is no need for an A.

AMEN:love::love:

[cianne]

But how does one do that? How does one close their heart off?

I doubt that can be done, and if it can, please tell me how.

[fooled once]

Why does it seem that people who freely post to a site, that is open to anyone who joins, start with name calling when they don't like the responses they get?

 

If you just wanted to get your feelings out - say "no response needed". Tell the posters who are members here you don't want advice. Or write a private blog. I don't understand why you would post to a site if you don't want views/opinons?

 

And then to start with the name calling when people took the time to respond? People who put effort into trying to advice you, people who took the time to try to help you. People who wrote to you their own stories and tried to share with you what they have gone through. Instead -- you get some responses that don't agree with how you handled it and you start calling names and being pretty cruel.

 

A great thread was started last week about this forum and the type of support that has been given, they type of hurtful words that have been said, the 'tone' of posts and it was a very productive and helpful thread to pretty much everyone.

 

And then you post, people respond in a much different tone than 2 weeks ago and STILL there are posters who jump on the "watch out for all the mean people and ignore them". *sigh*

 

Take what you need and leave the rest. Like someone else said, this was a very 'tame' thread and nothing like it may have been like a few weeks ago. I saw a lot of "in my opinion", "in my view" types of wording which is what was asked (in my interpretation) of the thread that Tony participated in.

 

But I guess you can't please everyone. I truly think people were only trying to help you, to advise you and to share with you. But like you said, you never asked for any of it so I guess everyone wasted their time.

 

Good luck to you - I hope you find whatever peace you are looking for.

[loveslife]

Ya know NL, IMO, you are out of line here. Just because some people have voiced their opinion doesn't make us bitter or anything else you have claimed we are.

 

Some of us feel that honestly about the fact that you have feelings for any other woman might be an important thing to admit to your wife. I feel that any relationship needs honesty to be solid. Anything short of it at such a fragile time, IMO, would hinder a true reconciliation.

 

So because of that, I'm bitter and I have hate issues? And you feel that because of my opinion, I can't maintain a relationship?

 

OK, NL, but you did post on a public site and if all you really wanted are a bunch of "poor NL" posts, here goes: Poor NL, I hope you find happiness and everything you are looking for in life.

 

And, you can have your pity back three fold.

 

 

I've read through this entire thread and the only person I've seen who seems bitter and angry is the OP. I'm sorry NL I just don't see it. People were giving some really heartfelt feedback but I guess it wasn't what you wanted to hear.

 

No need for pity and shame. My conscience is clear.