Do you guys like this kind of porn?

[Els]

3 - I completely disagree that THIS is the reason for hardcore porn. Hardcore porn sells because it is raunchy. Guys are dominant, they like to see domination.

 

If you train yourself to get off on domination instead of sex, then watching regular sex will not do it. As time goes on, the domination must increase. At first all you need is a little spanking and hair pulling. Next you need some head grabbing oral. Next you need the forceful gagging oral. Next the throwing up.... etc.

 

I respectfully disagree with this. As someone who's been watching the milder-average sort of domination porn for going on 5 years now, I can say that I've never -needed- the severity to increase, to get my kicks. It just doesn't work that way, not in actual BDSM and not in porn. People generally have a 'comfort level' that works best for them. While they may gradually inch there from complete innocence/vanilla-ness, taking time to get used to it... once they go past that 'optimum' level they'll usually be back real quick, because they'll get squicked.

[Jersey Shortie]

Because the majority of your posts that I've seen, *not just this thread*, are mostly of radical, negative outlandish opinions and assertions of men, no matter what the discussion is about. You sound not unlike a typical "modern feminist" in the way that you speak of men and find error in every aspect, often giving your view on how they "should" behave, in society. You take things and blow them way out of proportion to somehow indicate that everything points back to men thinking "women are nothing". Crazy talk.

 

You've made it clear that you are strictly anti-porn, that you think men watching porn, getting off to it, or otherwise fantasizing, no matter what kind of porn, is entirely dysfunctional and is leading to the breakdown of society. You think men watch porn to prove they are men. That is radical.

 

Des, I think you would like to *believe* and try to *convince* yourself that I am "radical", in an attempt to undermine my argument because you can't infact undermine the real argument so you revert to personally attacking me. What is really radical here? Lets put it on a scale, a question and discouragment about hearing how men have increased their porn to include humilating and abusing women, or the actual porn that humilates and abuses women that many men apparently find appealing? Come on, I think we can both see what is radical here. What is funny is you want to accuse me of putting down men and at the same time justify porn that is demeaning, degrading and denigtrating towards women. You want to ignore the quetsions I posed about how you expect women to feel about it and what you expect women to think of men if they like this kind of thing.

 

What's *radical* is that you rather personally attack me then discuss the topic. It's a classic diversionary move. Why don't you take a shot at the questions I posed instead of attempting to attack me? That would be a more constructive conversation. And would be more on topic.

 

 

If female domination in porn would get big with women, it wouldn't bother me at all.

 

I think because you and other men will never be placed in this type of situation and never have, you won't ever really know how honestly you and other men would react. I know alot of men that are offended by how they are sometimes protrayed in sitcoms. I also know that men greatly need and value respect from especially their woman. So I don't believe for a second that if men were put into the same position as women, where women had a billion dollar industry that was based on the explotation and the degradtion of men, that every man would be hunky dory with it. The reason there isn't a billiong dollar industry that degrades and humilates men based on female pleasure is because most women don't want to tear men down. And because quite honestly, it is a man's world.

 

Now you can attempt to try to make "feminist" a dirty word and like women shouldn't want to be respected and any woman that has the never to question porn that demeans women is just an uptight prude, or you can be a new kind of man that tries to actually understand why it hurts to see and why it makes some women question how men feel about women overall. By you trying to turn "feminist" into a dirty word, you are basically saying that women don't deserve the right to evulate for themselves what they find respectful or not. And if they dare find something disrsepectful that makes them uptight and wrong. It's no different then calling a woman any other name when you purposely say it to put a negative spin on things.

 

And there's something wrong with women doing it for those reasons?

 

Of course not. A woman's pleasure isn't as important as a man's. She should do whatever it takes to fullfill his fantasy. That's what porn says after all right? WHy shouldn't real women follow suit? What matters is that the man getse off. And that the woman is pretty enough and does everything he wants.

 

I was just speaking about the porn that's out there. You are taking the existence of such porn, to somehow mean that all men hate women or think they're "just for" this or that. More crazy talk.

 

YOu're the only one here that threw in "all". I don't know if men hate women or not to be honest. Or maybe not hate but don't think we deserve respect very much. What are women to think how men really feel about them when they see men enjoying them being pinched, slapped, smacked, chocked? Come on. What is crazy talk is that you don't even want to admit that you can understand why that would hurt. Seeing men get enjoyment out of just using women like they are infact just good for one thing. And not thinking that on some level, that's how they see women when they take ALOT of pleasure from it. Ridiculous.

 

 

Why do you take it personally? Porn is not meant to be taken personally or seriously on that kind of level. This porn involves no real anger or distaste for women, it is nothing against them personally in terms of the real world. It's role playing, fantasy... It is male domination in the sense of the sex itself, and the "attitude" in which it is approached. Any anger is false, only thrown in to spice it up.

 

Because I'm a woman and it hurts to know that there are so many men, and probably increasing, out there, with wives, girlfriends and daughters..etc etct., that enjoy women being treated like they are worthless. You have no idea what that is like! And how scarey and discouraging it is. We aren't even allowed to be us anymore. We are just suppose to be some fantasy that he saw in a porno that made him happy. Men don't get excited when women are true to their sexuality. And that's what it comes down to. Women in porn are repersented as if they are nothing but something to ejaculate inside of. You say it involves no real anger or distaste for women? Seriously, then I would hate to see what real distaste or anger looks like if pinching a girls nose shut, making her chock and puke on herself, slapping her around isn't it. As for the anger being false? Many physcologists say different. That with the increase of power women gained in society, the increase in porn that is meant to humilate them also grew.

 

 

Well I disagree with you, women aren't inferior to men. So what if men are "strong" or can assume a dominant position in a sexual act? The same can be said for women.

 

... and more crazy talk.

 

Sure we are. We are the gender that deserves to have our noses pinched shut, smacked around, choked and hit around just so you can get off. This isn't a question men being "strong". Far from it. A truly strong man doesn't need to exert brute force to prove it.

 

 

've already acknowledged it, and most people don't have such a reaction to it as you seem to. Most women don't go on long rants about how all men must hate women because this type of porn exists.

 

Yeah, that's why this is always a popular topic and people tell me alot that I make good points even if they are not as vocal about it. Right.

[clv0116]

.... it hurts to know that there are so many men, and probably increasing, out there, with wives, girlfriends and daughters..etc etct., that enjoy women being treated like they are worthless.

 

You need to find dates somewhere else.

[PandorasBox]

"If female domination in porn would get big with women, it wouldn't bother me at all".

 

So are you meaning it wouldn't bother you to see more women in porn be dominate to men? If that's the case, sure you wouldn't mind watching it, but I bet having it done to you would be different. And NO, I don't mean just some spanking on your butt either.

[Des]

What's *radical* is that you rather personally attack me then discuss the topic. It's a classic diversionary move. Why don't you take a shot at the questions I posed instead of attempting to attack me? That would be a more constructive conversation. And would be more on topic.

 

This is like trying to explain color to a person who only sees in black and white. It's impossible, it's a lost cause. I'm attacking you? Because my observations of your posts have lead me to believe you have some abnormally serious issues with men, as well as porn? I'm only being honest. Simply put, you are a prude if you're going to set there and complain that there something hugely wrong with men watching any porn, even if it's not this kind of porn, as I've seen you do. Do you really think men are honestly watching porn because they think it "makes them a man"? It only takes away from you credibility when you say things like that.

 

I've answered all of your questions, all of the ones that weren't just rewordings of the ones you've asked before because you refuse to accept the answers I give. I try to address every new question or statement you make, but when I give a direct answer, or when I make a point clearly, you revert back to your classic sarcasm of "that's because women are only for this or that" or "thats because women don't deserve respect and men are more important". You must not be getting the answer you want to hear.

 

 

I think because you and other men will never be placed in this type of situation and never have, you won't ever really know how honestly you and other men would react. I know alot of men that are offended by how they are sometimes protrayed in sitcoms.

 

I know how I would feel right now about a woman if she told me she got off on dominating and "abusing" men in the bedroom.

 

Well, thanks for arguing a little for my side. Men and women are both portrayed with negative stereotypes in the mainstream media, all the time. Men aren't what the appear to be on TV, and neither are women. But those ideas sell. I think that says something about our society, that we need to pretend men are women are this or that, or should behave a certain way. Off-topic, though.

 

 

By you trying to turn "feminist" into a dirty word, you are basically saying that women don't deserve the right to evulate for themselves what they find respectful or not.

 

You're not evaluating what women think, you're evaluating men. I am supportive of some feminism. There are feminists out there who are actually very pro-pornography. What they find offensive is the idea that women can't handle social situations themselves, or that they are powerless or need special protection. However, I've always thought, if there should be feminism and women's studies and evaluation, there also should to be an equal movement for and by men for the same purposes... and there actually is, except it's often looked down upon and taken as a joke by women.

 

 

Of course not. A woman's pleasure isn't as important as a man's. She should do whatever it takes to fullfill his fantasy. That's what porn says after all right? WHy shouldn't real women follow suit? What matters is that the man getse off. And that the woman is pretty enough and does everything he wants.

 

Once again, I make a point, you get upset and retreat back to the sarcasm.

 

What are women to think how men really feel about them when they see men enjoying them being pinched, slapped, smacked, chocked? Come on. What is crazy talk is that you don't even want to admit that you can understand why that would hurt. Seeing men get enjoyment out of just using women like they are infact just good for one thing. And not thinking that on some level, that's how they see women when they take ALOT of pleasure from it. Ridiculous.

 

That some men like rough, kinky sex? That they are turned on by dominating in certain sexual acts and situations? Okay, slapped and smacked are the same thing, and people have been doing it long before this type of porn. It's not that big of a deal, and most of it doesn't feature smacking as a focal point. Again, none of this meant to be taken personally, it is just sex and play. This porn is not intended to imply anything about women, I assure you.

 

Because I'm a woman and it hurts to know that there are so many men, and probably increasing, out there, with wives, girlfriends and daughters..etc etct., that enjoy women being treated like they are worthless. You have no idea what that is like! And how scarey and discouraging it is.

 

Must I ask again? Why do you let this bother you? This is something that will likely never have an affect on you. If you feel this is something that is degrading, then you don't have to put up with it. Men will respect how you feel about it, even if you never truly understand it.

 

 

Sure we are. We are the gender that deserves to have our noses pinched shut, smacked around, choked and hit around just so you can get off. This isn't a question men being "strong". Far from it. A truly strong man doesn't need to exert brute force to prove it.

 

Again, sarcasm. Sex is the correct term and no, no one said anything about "deserving" anything but you. Also, you have some really silly ideas of men. Why do they need to prove their strength to be men? Why so much emphasis on what men need to prove of themselves?

 

And if anything, the kind of stuff shows the strength of the woman, not the man.

 

 

Yeah, that's why this is always a popular topic and people tell me alot that I make good points even if they are not as vocal about it. Right.

 

Um... I said this is usually a controversial topic... mostly because, there's always one of those "fear what they don't understand" people who come along. They take it far too seriously and personally while claiming to see it all much differently, arguing because they think they're the only ones with any sense, because it's clearly the a sign of the end of days. While others just tell whether or not it turns them on, why or why not.

[Des]

"If female domination in porn would get big with women, it wouldn't bother me at all".

 

So are you meaning it wouldn't bother you to see more women in porn be dominate to men? If that's the case, sure you wouldn't mind watching it, but I bet having it done to you would be different. And NO, I don't mean just some spanking on your butt either.

 

Heh. I would hop on that opportunity, just for the unique experience.

[PandorasBox]

Heh. I would hop on that opportunity, just for the unique experience.

 

 

Ok, well be prepared to have dildo's shoved down your throat, you can't come up for air really either until you almost gag and puke. All kinds of objects shoved up your butt, and probably smacked really hard in the face, oh yeah and spit on. Then they will tag team you...ahhh sounds like a lovely fantasy huh.

[Jersey Shortie]

I'm attacking you? Because my observations of your posts have lead me to believe you have some abnormally serious issues with men, as well as porn? I'm only being honest.

 

You're not being honest, you have more invested in keeping your notions of porn alive then you do examining a different point of view. Please don't back-track and try to play the innocent party at this point or as if your "objective".

 

As far as what's abnormal, please take a look at alot of the porn that is being described here. What's abnormal is that now men think women want to have their nose pinched, mouths gagged past the thought or reason, humilated and abused. That's what is abnormal. That we got men with wives and gfs and daughters and sisters, that are right now sitting infront of their computers getting off on 18 year old girls being smacked around and humilated. You want to talk about abnormal? Lets talk about abnormal. There is nothing about porn that is about being "normal". There is nothing normal about wanting to abuse women and then trying to convince yourself they love it. I hate to tell you but pornography is fantasy. And those women are paid to look like they love everything being done to them. If you are seriously buying into that fantasy, you need to re-examine where your head is at between reality and fantasy.

 

Simply put, you are a prude if you're going to set there and complain that there something hugely wrong with men watching any porn, even if it's not this kind of porn, as I've seen you do.

 

If someone connects and ties their sexuailty so closely to porn, that they think anyone who doesn't view it or finds major problems with porn is a prude, I can understand their perception and confusion about those who don't need porn in their lives. Their assocation with their sexuality is so heavily tied up in porn that they can't understand that others can be sexual without needing motivation from other people having sex.

 

Do you really think men are honestly watching porn because they think it "makes them a man"? It only takes away from you credibility when you say things like that.

 

Absolutley. Men watch porn because it makes them *feel* more like a man in those moments they are watching it. Men respond emotionally and physically to porn. Their emotions clearly aren't centered around kind feelings toward the girl in the movie. That doesn't mean that porn movies don't draw certain emotions from men that play on their weaknesses and make them feel more like men. Seriously, ask any pyschologist. They won't prove me wrong. Porn is so popular because it play's on both men's physical and EMOTIONAL being. Porn does infact make men feel more like men. And that's sad.

 

I know how I would feel right now about a woman if she told me she got off on dominating and "abusing" men in the bedroom.

 

Which is?

 

Because I think if men were really put in the actual same position that women are when it comes to porn, both from the perspective of the woman in the movie and the millions of women that have to suffer their partners never ending lust for the next newest piece of ass, I think men would be alot more pissed about the lack of respect women would be giving them and women liking to see them so mistreated, disrespected and used up.

 

Men want respect. That's a simple fact. Take that away and men would be completely unhappy. But it's okay for men to disrespect women. It's okay to treat women like they don't matter. And it's okay to tell yourself that women love it and it's just about being dominate. Wanting to choke women, pinch their noses and smack them around is alot more then just wanting to be domiante.

 

 

Well, thanks for arguing a little for my side. Men and women are both portrayed with negative stereotypes in the mainstream media, all the time. Men aren't what the appear to be on TV, and neither are women. But those ideas sell. I think that says something about our society, that we need to pretend men are women are this or that, or should behave a certain way. Off-topic, though.

 

 

Yeah, too bad you don't want to argue anything for women. You just want to defend the abuse.

 

And on this subject, at least women aren't mastrubating to men being represented poorly on tv! And they aren't asking their man to dress up or be like like the men on tv for their sexual benefit! How many men ask that of their girlfriends and wives all the time to act more like the porn movies that men entrench themselves in? Because they rather their girlfriends and wives act more like the pornstars they convet, then they would really supporting their wives and gfs real sexuality. We don't live in a world that honestly supports women's sexuality. We live in one where men want to define what woman's sexuality should be through a male domianted media and fantasy and so many women are trying to live up to it but realize that even when they do these things for their man, he's never going to stop seeking them out through porn. So women are pretty much interchangable and worthless.

 

And since men rally so hard for porn, it's logical to conclude that porn is very important to men. That's what today's men care about. And it doesn't matter to them how dehumanzing and abusive it is to women as long as men get to masturbate I guess.

 

 

You're not evaluating what women think, you're evaluating men.

 

Of course I am evaluating men. I evaluate men based on what they do, what they say, what they show they have support for. I evaluate women for the same thing. So does everyone here. But guess what? Women don't want to abuse men. Even in "fantasy". Can men say the same? Guess not. You want to mock my comments about how women are repersented as being worthless but that's exactly what it comes down to. Men are the all powerful (dominate) beings and women are just there to take it I guess.

 

Once again, I make a point, you get upset and retreat back to the sarcasm.

 

I wasn't being sarcastic. The message is a woman's worth is less then that of a man's. She is only something to be used and discarded until the next woman comes along. And hey, there are alot of naked women on the internet just waiting for the next "committed" man to come along. Because what matters to men is their ability and desire to masturbate. That's what it comes down to. I know you don't like hearing the truth in that but that's what it is. Men's desire to masturbate out weigh's respecting women. You can love a man and treat him well but what you offer is never enough. And he will turn to a media that completely glorifies the abuse of women.

 

That some men like rough, kinky sex? That they are turned on by dominating in certain sexual acts and situations? Okay, slapped and smacked are the same thing, and people have been doing it long before this type of porn. It's not that big of a deal, and most of it doesn't feature smacking as a focal point. Again, none of this meant to be taken personally, it is just sex and play. This porn is not intended to imply anything about women, I assure you.

 

It's not a big deal for you because you aren't the one being disrespected and used and discarded. It's not a big deal for you because you're not the one being smacked, slapped and gagged and abused.

 

Easy for you to sit there as a man, as the gender that isn't called four letter names, smacked around and used just to get off on. Easy for men who sit infront of their computers daily masturbating to porn while their gfs or wives are raising their kids and trying to keep their house together. You have no idea what it's like. And hey you are right, men aren't going to ever stop looking at porn. So where does that leave women? Heck If I know. Infact, more men look at porn more then EVER before. I can ASSURE you, that porn implies plenty about women and men that both men and women take something from.

 

And if men were being abused and used and discarded in a media that women made a billion dollar industry, you would never be attempting to make the same arguement. Heck, men don't even like having to pay for coffee today sometimes and complain about women expecting them to pay. Imagine a world where women used and abused men and then told men they really like it? You don't have to live in that world. Women do.

 

And since porn as esculated to now it's okay to smack women, make them stop breathing, and gag them, what is next? Honestly. Another question you failed to directly address. What is next? If things keep esculating is it now going to be okay to punch women in the eyes? Completely cut off their air supply to make them pass out? How far does this need to go before men step back and say "yeah something isn't right here'.

 

There are a whole mess of boys out there growing up in the tech age who think it's normal to abuse women. And no one cares. Not one man cares because he still wants to be able to bust a nut to porn. That's what it amounts to.

 

Must I ask again? Why do you let this bother you? This is something that will likely never have an affect on you. If you feel this is something that is degrading, then you don't have to put up with it. Men will respect how you feel about it, even if you never truly understand it.

 

Are you really this thick? How many times do I have to say it? I think you can look at my comments and put two and two together on why this is bothersome.

 

It affects every woman out there. And will sadly, continue to worsen and deepen and affect men more and women more. Alot more boys are growing up, and grown men, think it's okay to abuse women now for sexual pleasure and girls and women think it's okay to be abused for male sexual pleasure.

 

It bothers me because there is such a HUGE lack or respect for women. From even the men in our own lives who rather support and industry that abuses women then putting it down and being more invovled with their real life. Men rather entrench themselves in fantasy then really learn to appreciate and value women for who they are. It's sad for both genders. And discouraging to see just how throughly men think women deserve to be treated.

 

 

They take it far too seriously and personally while claiming to see it all much differently, arguing because they think they're the only ones with any sense, because it's clearly the a sign of the end of days. While others just tell whether or not it turns them on, why or why not.

 

Please spare me. This is always a controversial topic. And not because of just one poster. Because I think people know deep down, especially the men that like the type of porn they like, know that something isn't right here in how they view and treat women. But again, as long as a man gets to bust his nut, it's okay to treat women anyway he pleases. That's the core message.

[The Collector]

So is the gagging till almost throwing up, boob and face smacking the new "in" thing? How many of you men are into this?

 

I don't like that sort of thing in my porn. It's not nice.

[Taramere]

yea yea we like it

 

No major surprise that you like it, alpha. Maybe when the women are throwing up, in a strange way they're sort of "acting out" your disgust about sex for you.

 

I'm saying that in light of the thread you started. The one where you expressed your revulsion about female genitalia. It's an issue you've often raised during your time on LS.

[jw90063]

So is the gagging till almost throwing up, boob and face smacking the new "in" thing? How many of you men are into this?

 

 

Um, that sounds a little extreme. Gagging till and almost throwing up sounds disturbing and if that turns someone on.....

[Jersey Shortie]

Be careful, you might be turning them on right now with the little vomit emote.

 

I personally just have to wonder how far things will or have to escuate? I mean what's next? Punching women in the eye to get off? As if wanting to make them gag or hold their nose or smack them around isn't disturbing enough. But the men that are looking at this stuff are every day men who have wives, gfs, sisters, mother's and daughters. What does that say about men today.

[burning 4 revenge]

No major surprise that you like it, alpha. Maybe when the women are throwing up, in a strange way they're sort of "acting out" your disgust about sex for you.

 

I'm saying that in light of the thread you started. The one where you expressed your revulsion about female genitalia. It's an issue you've often raised during your time on LS.

What would Siegfried Farnon say in this situation

[h2ofrek]

I hate to say it, but the whole issue I see with porn, and this comes from a LOT of experience on the matter, is that it develops a false sense of expectation of the women in my life.

 

I believe that if I had not been so warped by the forms of sex that I viewed in porn, I would have been better able to appreciate the beauty of the woman I was married to; not be greedy and always expect a little more.

 

It is my opinion that if you have a woman, that should be all of the porn you need or want. Open up to her and tell her all of your wants and let that be a building block in your relationship.

 

To get back to the original question: NO, I don't like that gagging and slapping s4!t we are seeing in porn. Very dominating stuff and not a very healthy part of the kind of sexual connection I want to have with a woman in my life. Can we get some more hair down there too?

[Des]

You're not being honest, you have more invested in keeping your notions of porn alive then you do examining a different point of view.

 

I've looked at your point of view, and I don't agree with it or care for the assumptions you make. Unlike you, I'm not assuming anything here. That's the key difference between our sides of the argument. I've already acknowledged everything there is to acknowledge about this porn, I've explained it and how I feel about it from a male perspective. Since I am in fact male, I sure as hell think I know more about myself and being male than someone who isn't and who is not me. But you would insist otherwise.

 

I mean what, do women know more about men than men? Is that what you're telling me? Men have no ability to see the reality of what they are? Because the porn just takes them over, right? It blinds them? Sure.

 

As far as what's abnormal, please take a look at alot of the porn that is being described here.

 

Well if it's becoming the "norm", and more men and women are into it, then I guess the less abnormal it becomes. Zing!

 

I hate to tell you but pornography is fantasy. And those women are paid to look like they love everything being done to them. If you are seriously buying into that fantasy, you need to re-examine where your head is at between reality and fantasy.

 

Already addressed this. Most feel indifferent about it and do it because it pays them, just like everything in porn since it's inception. A few might get into it because they genuinely do love it, some might wind up in it while hating it. But you see, just like with everything, there are two extremes and the truth is usually somewhere in between. These woman actually doing it don't think it's as bad as you do, if it really was, how could they even pretend to like it? Besides, most of the time they are not told to pretend to like it, fake reactions in porn are easily detectable and often criticized.

 

Their assocation with their sexuality is so heavily tied up in porn that they can't understand that others can be sexual without needing motivation from other people having sex.

 

Irrelevant. Sure, I get some people are "sexual" without watching porn. But what, is that something to be proud of? Something to brag about? What does that even matter to this discussion? That's like saying "I can entertain myself without any help from the mainstream media, I don't need to see any music, acting or other artistic form of talent, I'm fully capable myself!" Porn is an outlet for people's sexuality, people's ideas get made into porn, and these ideas are communicated to others. That's how media works.

 

Seriously, ask any pyschologist. They won't prove me wrong. Porn is so popular because it play's on both men's physical and EMOTIONAL being. Porn does infact make men feel more like men. And that's sad.

 

What's sad is that you believe this, regardless of what "psychologist" (read feminist literature), might suggest.

 

Which is?

 

Hot. It gets old not seeing women want to take charge and assert domination, at least in a physical or sexual sense. They do it on a daily basis otherwise.

 

I think men would be alot more pissed about the lack of respect women would be giving them and women liking to see them so mistreated, disrespected and used up.

 

Respect... I don't think men or women have enough of it for each other anymore, but you can't blame that entirely on porn. That's just how it is. Men take advantage of women, women take advantage of men.

 

And it's okay to tell yourself that women love it and it's just about being dominate. Wanting to choke women, pinch their noses and smack them around is alot more then just wanting to be domiante.

 

But it is! How many times do I have to say it? How many times will you insist on giving me a "nuh-uh" response? You don't know that, you just assume. You refuse the answer you don't want to hear.

 

And they aren't asking their man to dress up or be like like the men on tv for their sexual benefit!

 

so many women are trying to live up to it but realize that even when they do these things for their man, he's never going to stop seeking them out through porn.

 

Sure they are.

 

So... you're complaining that even if she does it, the guy will still watch porn? Why does that matter? Wait, never mind, don't even tell me, I think I've got this one. Is it because women are nothing and can be interchanged? Your way of thinking is broken.

 

I evaluate women for the same thing.

 

So why aren't you complaining about the women who also perpetuate this? What are you saying to the women who don't feel the same way about it as you do? Why aren't you acknowledging the fact that women have control of this situation too?

 

It's not a big deal for you because you're not the one being smacked, slapped and gagged and abused.

 

Easy for you to sit there as a man, as the gender that isn't called four letter names, smacked around and used just to get off on.

 

Yes... yes we are. We get called names, smacked and used in the real world, and it's okay. It's not really abuse of any form when women do that to men, or so I've been taught.

 

Heck, men don't even like having to pay for coffee today sometimes and complain about women expecting them to pay. Imagine a world where women used and abused men and then told men they really like it? You don't have to live in that world. Women do.

 

You're too old fashion, too caught up in antiquated social standards. Should I be expected to buy you coffee because you're a woman? You're going to pretend like it's bad if I don't?

 

And since porn as esculated to now it's okay to smack women, make them stop breathing, and gag them, what is next? Honestly. Another question you failed to directly address. What is next? If things keep esculating is it now going to be okay to punch women in the eyes? Completely cut off their air supply to make them pass out? How far does this need to go before men step back and say "yeah something isn't right here'.

 

This type of porn is never going to reach that point. Why? Because it has nothing to do with that. There is nothing sexy about hurting a woman, just as I've been telling you. We have have already reached the point where we have drawn the line. There already is one infamous instance of punching in porn. It was met with huge backlash from the porn community, from both fans and other pornographers, they really got burned for doing it, and rightfully so. They did it even though she told them not to, which is very disturbing, I wouldn't condone something like that even if she begged. Most men would agree. That is nothing like the domination or play in this gagging, pinching, smacking etc... it is nowhere near that. This stuff isn't causing them pain.

 

How many times do I have to say it?

 

I don't know, how many times do you want to be wrong in your assuming of what men think and feel, and how this relates to anything other than just sex and ****ing?

 

That's the core message.

 

The message you get, or maybe even the one you want to get anyways. How do I know? Like I said, you fear what you do not understand. Which is completely understandable here... but damn, these posts are getting too long.

[Des]

Ok, well be prepared to have dildo's shoved down your throat, you can't come up for air really either until you almost gag and puke. All kinds of objects shoved up your butt, and probably smacked really hard in the face, oh yeah and spit on. Then they will tag team you...ahhh sounds like a lovely fantasy huh.

 

Why can't she dominate and abuse me in ways that aren't homo-erotic? Why can't she just force me to give her oral, smack and spit on me, maybe gag me with her hand or something? Wow that would be all kinds of hot. Sign me up.

[h2ofrek]

Here is the one thing I have learned; if your mate does not like you viewing it, there is a reason. That reason needs to be addressed and then respected for there to be growth.

 

Porn IS a fantasy and can lead to some very skewed impressions of how the real world SHOULD be, instead of dealing with life on it's terms.

 

I am just stating this as a cautionary tale and am not going to take sides either way. I know where it has led me and I hope nobody else has to lose as much as I did to realize how damaging porn can be if you are not careful.

 

Take it or leave it.

[Des]

Porn IS a fantasy and can lead to some very skewed impressions of how the real world SHOULD be, instead of dealing with life on it's terms.

 

I am just stating this as a cautionary tale and am not going to take sides either way. I know where it has led me and I hope nobody else has to lose as much as I did to realize how damaging porn can be if you are not careful.

 

I somewhat agree. But I get the feeling that a lot of people on here don't take the sexual aspect of a relationship to be all that important. I think that it is of equal importance as anything else in a relationship. You need to compromise, and meet your partner half way. Not just reject their desires altogether, and dismiss them as being an utterly unimportant part of a relationship. I mean, you're ideally spending the rest of your life with this person, you might as well turn each other on and fulfill one anothers sexual desires to the best of your ability.

 

Yes, some can be easily persuaded and influenced, by more than just porn. But I think porn is meant to be taken more as what could be rather than what should be. I still see nothing wrong with taking ideas from porn and experimenting, given consent of course. But not just assuming that it's the way things are or should be.

[Taramere]

What would Siegfried Farnon say in this situation

 

Siegfried was a gentleman, and "Health and Efficiency" was about as raunchy as his reading material ever got. Too classy a man by far to have his name make an appearance in a discussion like this.

[PandorasBox]

Why can't she dominate and abuse me in ways that aren't homo-erotic? Why can't she just force me to give her oral, smack and spit on me, maybe gag me with her hand or something? Wow that would be all kinds of hot. Sign me up.

 

 

Oh, she can abuse you any way you allow her to. I was just using those types of domination as examples of the extreme, because that is pretty much what this thread is based on. Extreme kinds of things done to people in porn (or in real life I suppose.)

[Jersey Shortie]

H2ofrek:

 

I hate to say it, but the whole issue I see with porn, and this comes from a LOT of experience on the matter, is that it develops a false sense of expectation of the women in my life.

 

I believe that if I had not been so warped by the forms of sex that I viewed in porn, I would have been better able to appreciate the beauty of the woman I was married to; not be greedy and always expect a little more.

 

It is my opinion that if you have a woman, that should be all of the porn you need or want. Open up to her and tell her all of your wants and let that be a building block in your relationship.

 

 

I think alot of men would agree. But alot of men wouldn't have your courage to admit it.

[Jersey Shortie]

That's the key difference between our sides of the argument. I've already acknowledged everything there is to acknowledge about this porn, I've explained it and how I feel about it from a male perspective. Since I am in fact male, I sure as hell think I know more about myself and being male than someone who isn't and who is not me. But you would insist otherwise.

 

You've made your own assumptions about what women like. And you've justified it based on a paid industry that's meant to protray fantasy. So for you to sit there and try and discredit my point of view on the fact that I am not a man, as if the male perspective is the only one worthy of having any important, I find that hypocritical.

 

 

I mean what, do women know more about men than men? Is that what you're telling me? Men have no ability to see the reality of what they are? Because the porn just takes them over, right? It blinds them? Sure.

 

I never said women know more about men. What I have said is that women should judge men based on their invested interets and actions. A man that likes hardcore porn, or even a man that spends alot of time looking at regular porn and defending it, has his priorities messed up and women should judge him and what kind of partner he would make or his thoughts on women based on what he is into sexually.

 

 

Well if it's becoming the "norm", and more men and women are into it, then I guess the less abnormal it becomes. Zing!

 

So now you want pinching, smacking, gagging, choking and vomitting on a man's penis to become the norm and that's suppose to be healthy? I digress. Your statement doesn't even make sense to what I posted. Which was discussing what is abnormal. You want to make the point that it's abnormal for women to be disturbed by porn that's designed to humilate them. And I rightly so pointed out that what is abnormal is the level of things some men increasingly are becoming interested in and invested in.

 

What's next? If these things are an esculation of the dominance of women, what would be the next esculating step? You're not so naive to understand that these things are infact exculating. Now it's pinching, slapping, gagging and choking women. Like that isn't bad enough. What's next? Punching them in the face? Making them pass out? Come on, you want to talk about hardcore porn, lets talk about it. What's the next step? It's certainly not going to stop at the things that are in porn now. It never does. Porn is always pushing the envelop and there are always men there ready to soak it up. So please share your thoughts on what is goign to be next on the treatement of women? And how much should women love it then? I guess we should be greatful a man wants to be with us even if he is smacking us and hitting us while he's doing it.

 

These woman actually doing it don't think it's as bad as you do, if it really was, how could they even pretend to like it? Besides, most of the time they are not told to pretend to like it, fake reactions in porn are easily detectable and often criticized.

 

So lets be clear, one of your very first arguements in this post was how could I possibly know what men thought or felt because I wasn't a man myself and I wasn't allowed to make assumptions based on what men choose to be interested in .But it's okay for you to make assumptions about women and what they like or don't like. You just back tracked in yuor own argument here.

 

I don't know if you realize it but most women that do porn, do it because they have fewer options that women who don't. Most women that do porn, have unhappy childhoods or unsupportive families or other emotional issues. There is a very small subset of women that actually might enjoy doing it but most women that are healthy and well rounded don't go into the porn industry. Now women that let any man smack, spit on them and treat them like they are worthless has even deeper issues. Most women don't last longer then 6months to 1 year in the porn business because within that time frame they are asked to do more hardcore asks and it both distories their emotional and physical bodies. Ask the doctors of these young women that have been used and abused in the fashion we are talking about here. You really think any woman's body is meant to sustain that abuse or should? You are fulling yourself and buying into a fantasy if you think so.

 

Heck, read some interviews with Jemma Jamison. She is very clear about the rampet abuse of women in porn. But if you want to stand that up to some model on how women should be or even like to be treated, you go ahead. But it doesn't say much about men if that's the route you want to go.

 

And If you want to make to keep making assertions about women in porn, meanwhile telling me I am no allowed to do the same, you go ahead but your argument has just been broken down.

 

 

Irrelevant. Sure, I get some people are "sexual" without watching porn. But what, is that something to be proud of?

 

Absolutley.

 

Something to brag about?

 

Sure is.

 

What does that even matter to this discussion?

 

You decided to make personal attacks about my sexual nature. You started name calling me based on our discussion. It's very reveleant because you're the one that brought it up. Now you are back tracking once again red-handed.

 

Respect... I don't think men or women have enough of it for each other anymore, but you can't blame that entirely on porn. That's just how it is. Men take advantage of women, women take advantage of men

 

Umm, I don't blame it all on porn. But the subject here is porn and it's a big one. As for "that's just how it is"...if we all followed that line of thought we would live in a very lazy world. I like men that want to take action, not sit on their rumps and shrug their shoulder and scratch themselves. But that's just me.

 

 

 

You're too old fashion, too caught up in antiquated social standards. Should I be expected to buy you coffee because you're a woman? You're going to pretend like it's bad if I don't?

 

LOL, seriously, you don't even shell out for coffee on yoru dates? LOL.

 

This type of porn is never going to reach that point. Why? Because it has nothing to do with that. There is nothing sexy about hurting a woman, just as I've been telling you.

 

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaat? Are you kidding me? That's all that this porn is about that we are talking about. OMG, you got to be kidding. I guess you got to tell yourself whatevre you need to to sleep at night.

 

 

We have have already reached the point where we have drawn the line. There already is one infamous instance of punching in porn. It was met with huge backlash from the porn community, from both fans and other pornographers, they really got burned for doing it, and rightfully so.

 

I wonder how long that will last before it's back. If men can spit on , smack, gag and make women choke, they arne't that much father from wanting to punch them around.

 

They did it even though she told them not to, which is very disturbing, I wouldn't condone something like that even if she begged. Most men would agree. That is nothing like the domination or play in this gagging, pinching, smacking etc... it is nowhere near that. This stuff isn't causing them pain.

 

Hate to break your heart Sweetheart but when someone pinches, smacks, gags or spits on you, it doesn't feel good and it stings and can hurt to varying degrees. So if you want to keep telling yoruself that women love this stuff and that's how women want to be treated, I suggest yo talk to most women and ask them how they really feel about this kind of porn in your real life.

 

I also hate to break your heart but you do realize that the women in porn are paid to project an image right? They aren't paid to make them feels good. They are paid to make it seem like everything a man does them is perfect and wonderful even if he is smacking her around. Please don't buy into the fantasy. That's not real life. It doesn't feel good when a grown adult male with more strength then you wants to smack you to make himself feel good.

 

The message you get, or maybe even the one you want to get anyways. How do I know? Like I said, you fear what you do not understand. Which is completely understandable here... but damn, these posts are getting too long.

 

You are damn right I fear generations of men that like and boys that are being brought up in a world entrenched with the fantasy of humilating and abusing women. And I don't understand it. I don't understand why men want to abuse women.

 

Regular porn is bad enough and the stereotypes and standards it sets women to fail at. Now we have men that like seeing women gagged, abused, choked, spit on and so forth. That is something to fear as a woman. Because it says alot about where a man's interests lay and how he feels about women. Whether you want to admit it or not. Women should be afraid. Because if this is what men like now, there is no tellign what they will like in the future. As if what is out now isn't bad enough.

[Crusoe]

 

Regular porn is bad enough and the stereotypes and standards it sets women to fail at. Now we have men that like seeing women gagged, abused, choked, spit on and so forth. That is something to fear as a woman. Because it says alot about where a man's interests lay and how he feels about women. Whether you want to admit it or not. Women should be afraid. Because if this is what men like now, there is no tellign what they will like in the future. As if what is out now isn't bad enough.

 

Very true and it reminds me of what Ted Bundy warned us about during his final interview.

[burning 4 revenge]

Siegfried was a gentleman, and "Health and Efficiency" was about as raunchy as his reading material ever got. Too classy a man by far to have his name make an appearance in a discussion like this.

Yes I think youre right

 

He'd probably make a hasty exit out of this discussion to the Drovers Arms for a pint (or four) where he'd find Tristan chatting up a barmaid and appreciating his brother's relative innocence for the first time would give him a pat on the back and start a discussion about birthing goats at Old Skeldale's farm

[ADF]

Very true and it reminds me of what Ted Bundy warned us about during his final interview.

 

Ted Bundy was a pathological liar who, encouraged by James Dobson (of Focus on the Family), tried to slough off the blame for his crimes on pornography. It was a cynical ploy to save his own life.

 

Andrea Yates drowned five of her children because she thought God wanted her to. Mentally unbalanced people can be set off by anything. Or should we ban the Bible as well as well as porn?