Do you guys like this kind of porn?

[A O]

I don't think "shaming " is the right word because it's really about keeping things balanced and fair so that either gender doesn't get out of hand.

You want to keep things balanced and fair, then rise above these antics. Gender neutral people have little need for shaming.

 

If a woman works at trying to fullfill her partner and being exciting, and attractive and all that; then why does he still need to self-satisfy himself outside of that? It's about more and more and more and more and more....ect ect ect.

Men and women are different, that is something everyone needs to get their head around.

 

Why does a woman continually need to wear make-up, dress up, look attractive when not around her man. Why does she need to do that? Why isn't looking attractive the sole preserve of her man? Why does she need more, why, why, why? This is the same dynamic you're describing but in reverse. Simple fact of the matter is that we are different, we have different needs, different wants, different desires. We need to respect them, we need to respect this. Trying to pummel everyone into being the same is simply unhealthy and unrealistic.

 

And I never said they were bad or freaks. Don't put words in my mouth that were never there.

The implications are crystal clear.

 

.

[Jersey Shortie]

LOL. Wearing make up has nothing to do with porn. Oy.

 

Ridiculous as ever "AO", although we both know you are someone else.

[A O]

LOL. Wearing make up has nothing to do with porn. Oy.

The make-up is part of a far bigger picture. Why do men look at porn more than women, why do women put more effort into looking good than men? Why, why, why?

 

It is simple, we are all driven by the same force - desire - but we react and use it differently. Women, need to be desired, men desire. It's yin and yang, one can't exist without the other.

 

So, lets put this into context, in relation to your views and this thread. When a man views porn, looks at women other than his significant other, he does so because he desires. It satisfies a basic natural tenet. When a women takes the time to make herself look attractive for people other than her SO, it satisfies her base needs - to feel desired. Now, in relation to women, just because they like to feel desired, that doesn't mean they are going to act on those desires (unless its with her partner of course). Likewise, when a man desires, that doesn't mean he's going to act on those desires. This JS, is the natural order of things, and this is what most people understand, albeit without even realizing why.

 

Those who fail to grasp this see the world the same as you (there is a poster on the dating forum who is almost the male version of you). They feel affronted by the opposite sex, thus they act accordingly. There is absolutely no need to feel this way. All it takes is a willingness to understand.

 

Ridiculous as ever "AO", although we both know you are someone else.

My moniker's been around for years. You know this better than anyone here. My views and my behavior towards posters will do the talking.

 

.

[justforfun]

Pushing my dick down her throat, deep enough to make her puke, isn't my idea of loving sex. JMO;)

 

Fine. But who is to say it's not for someone else?

[justforfun]

 

We had an incident similar to this over ten years ago before the age of mass internet porn.

 

.

 

I think you'll find the age of mass internet porn started a lot longer than 10 years ago!

[A O]

I think you'll find the age of mass internet porn started a lot longer than 10 years ago!

Depends on your definition of 'mass'. There were 150 million internet users ten years ago, there's well over a billion today. More to the point though (and putting the part you've quoted back in context), certain acts were taking place long before the internet arrived (in the size and form that most people equate the internet as being today), so, blaming certain acts that happen today on the internet is incorrect.

 

.

[justforfun]

Depends on your definition of 'mass'. There were 150 million internet users ten years ago, there's well over a billion today.

 

Very true.

[Jersey Shortie]

It is simple, we are all driven by the same force - desire - but we react and use it differently. Women, need to be desired, men desire. It's yin and yang, one can't exist without the other.

 

Women need tobe desired by the man that cares about her and that she cares about. Alot of women will actually be creeped out by other men desiring her or if she is in a satisfying relationship, will infact say that she only needs her man's attention. Also, most women are finishing themselves off to a man who might look her over twice. Thirdly, men like to fee attractive and appreicate when women notice them. Unless your a hobo, most men do infact try to look nice.

 

 

Now, in relation to women, just because they like to feel desired, that doesn't mean they are going to act on those desires (unless its with her partner of course). Likewise, when a man desires, that doesn't mean he's going to act on those desires. This JS, is the natural order of things, and this is what most people understand, albeit without even realizing why.

 

If a man is looking at porn and masturbating to it, he already is acting on those desires. That's just plain fact. If you are just talking about a man thinking another woman is attractive and not finishing himself off to her, then what you are saying is comparable because he isn't taking further action and it's all passive. But you aren't comparing a woman's desire to be thought of as beautiful to a man's desire to notice beauty. You are comparing a womans' desire to look beautiful and be noticed, to a man masturbating and finishing himself off over porn. Not the same thing. I never said I don't expect men to never be attracted to anyone other then their partner. What I do expect and what many women expect is some self control and respect and loyatly to the woman they are with and claiming they care for so much. Women might like to be noticed sometimes, mostly by her own man! But they aren't finishing themselves off to just being looked at.

 

 

My moniker's been around for years. You know this better than anyone here. My views and my behavior towards posters will do the talking.

 

Your behaviors, location and views match another screen name. I know it and you know it and you can keep playing your little games. You enjoy it.

[A O]

Women need tobe desired by the man that cares about her and that she cares about.

Women need to feel desired - period, its a natural biological urge. Most only want that attention from their SO, that much is very true, however, when you look at things from your point of view (men being attracted to women other than their SO) then it begs the question - why do women feel the need to look attractive when the man of their lives isn't around?

 

The simple answer is that they're satisfying a biological need to feel desired with the big punchline being, that doesn't mean that they act on those desires, and that doesn't mean also, as you quite rightly pointed out, that they even want to be desired (not by certain types anyway). But if the person's right and desires in the correct manner - flattery, compliments, rather than ogling, leering, then it all feeds into her base need nicely.

 

And again, same deal for men, men desire, that feeds into their base need. And men can and do desire without acting, nor wanting what they desire. Its the exact same dynamic in play.

 

So you ask, why isn't one woman enough for men? The simple fact of the matter is that on a basic biological level, one man isn't enough for women either. But it's the 'acting' on that base need that is the key, and the only thing that you and anyone else should worry about.

 

Thirdly, men like to fee attractive and appreicate when women notice them. Unless your a hobo, most men do infact try to look nice.

Of course, just like the fact that some women enjoy porn, or enjoy looking at men every bit as much as men do to women. But on a whole, and as I mentioned earlier, women need to be desired more, and men need to desire more.

 

If a man is looking at porn and masturbating to it, he already is acting on those desires.

Remember, women masturbate too. So, if men are acting on their desires then so are women. More to the point, does this type of act qualify as cheating or hurting their partner? Well, that's up to each individual to decide. My 'belief' is that to the vast majority of people, it does not constitute cheating nor hurtful behavior. Masturbating is as natural an act as desire itself.

 

Your behaviors, location and views match another screen name. I know it and you know it and you can keep playing your little games. You enjoy it.

So the guy's from kiwiland (NZ), Cloudy Bay too (not that such a place exists, it is the name of a winery after all), and he does his utmost to treat posters with respect, even when faced with the opposite. And the views I'm expressing are the same old, same old that you've seen before huh. Ok, interesting.

 

.

[Jersey Shortie]

You compared women putting on make-up to men masturbating. It's not a fair comparison. I do agree, and have said myself that women enjoy being looked at more and men enjoy looking. Which is why men are fine with them looking at porn or going to see strippers but most would not be fine if other men got to see his girlfriend or if she was stripping. You aren't comparing looking to be looked at. You are trying to compare men masturbating to women enjoying to be looked at. Not a fair comparison at all.

 

You completely gloss over the fact that putting on make-up can very well be asexual. We don't always do it to turn men on. We do it to be presentable and polished. Just like men trim their nose hairs and have their own grooming habits. It's not only every about getting looks and stares.

 

Putting on make-up and comparing masturbation is completely ridiculous. When you start thinking and masturbating to other people, you are acting on an impulse and feeling. You say it's okay as long as there is no action. But there is action! It's an actoin that men get away with because it's not quite cheating but it's not quite loyal and monogmous either. It's inbetween and men push the limit about what they can get away with and that is through porn and strip clubs. And then they expect women to think they are loyal and committed to them while what they really are defending is their porn. Some women don't mind, some ignore it because it hurts them too much, some don't like it. Masturbationg and sex is all very healthy and never said otherwise. What porn is, isn't healthy. Men aren't more healthy better individuals today with sex or women because of porn. They are actually worse off for it.

 

So the guy's from kiwiland (NZ), Cloudy Bay too (not that such a place exists, it is the name of a winery after all), and he does his utmost to treat posters with respect, even when faced with the opposite. And the views I'm expressing are the same old, same old that you've seen before huh. Ok, interesting.

 

Whatever. Play all the little head games you want. You're good at it.

[Ross PK]

JS, you're being an extremist.

 

Guys, as Micheal Jacksons brother once said, you can't reason with unreasonable people.

[A O]

You compared women putting on make-up to men masturbating.

I compared men's need to desire (to look) with womens' need to be desired (to be looked at), that much is true. The leap between desiring and acting on these desires via masturbation was not made by me.

 

You completely gloss over the fact that putting on make-up can very well be asexual.

Can be indeed. Remember, the need to be desired does not have to be sexual. Same holds true for those that desire.

 

When you start thinking and masturbating to other people, you are acting on an impulse and feeling. You say it's okay as long as there is no action. But there is action!

Sorry, but I didn't say anything of the sort. Just to clarify, its whether people 'act' on their desires, be it men or women, that we need to concern ourselves with. Men can desire without acting and women can feel desired without acting on those desires also.

 

More to the point, and again, what matters is whether people think that masturbation (which is an act that both men and women enjoy), is an act that constitutes hurtful or cheating behavior towards their partner.

 

.

[Jersey Shortie]

There is nothing extremist about it. It's about questioning things that I think most people don't want to question about themselves so they can keep going along worrying about themselves first and their partners, that they claim they care so much for, second. And Ross, I infact bring up alot of good points. And many people have told me as much.

 

AO, we could keep going back and forth. And really it's pointless. You love your porn so that's what you stand by. It's no big surprise. Business as always for you. You stand up for what you think is important. And to you, porn is very important. It is too many guys and it's kind of sad. I personally need a guy that is going to be better then that and is going to be more concerned with real life then he is his fantasy life. It's tough finding guys like that but I know they are out there. Where they care more about their real lifes and sticking up for them instead of their fantasy ones.

[JackJack]

I don't know why people get so bent out of shape when people express their views on porn or certain kinds etc. Many people here have expressed their love for it, their hate for it, and some are in the middle of the road on it. It ends up coming across as it being a battle of who is right and who is wrong, and its not even about that.

[A O]

AO, we could keep going back and forth. And really it's pointless. You love your porn so that's what you stand by.

It's not so much to do about my views, as it's about explaining the dynamic of "desire" and how that very same dynamic influences the sexes in different ways. In short, its about understanding that the sexes are different and embracing and celebrating this fact.

 

And to you, porn is very important. It is too many guys and it's kind of sad.

Looking attractive is very important to women irrespective of whether their partner's around or not. And I, and most people find that perfectly fine. On the other hand, if you were consistent, you'd have have a problem with this. You'd want to be the woman, and you'd want women, to only look attractive around their man. You wouldn't want your actions or the actions of women in general to fuel the fantasies of men everywhere now would you.

 

.

[Jersey Shortie]

Are you orginally from New Zealnd AO?

 

Once again you are trying to compare apples to oranges. Men want to look attractive too. Men spend a certain amount of time making themselves look what they, on individual terms, thinks makes them attractive. Women do the same. Wanting to look attractive and looking at attractive people, both within reason, is not comparable to masturbating to porn. I am not asking for perfection. What I am asking for is a little mores self control on the guy's part. I am not in porn. Most women don't. Most men with relationships are looking at porn still. A man looking at an attractive woman is far different then a man spending time downloading and masturbating to women in porn. Yes, I understand that even when you are in a relationship you are both going to still find others attractive. When you start taking images with you home to masturbate to, or download them off the internet or view them on tv, you are taking action to self fullfill yourself with other women. Today, men spend more time then ever online looking at porn. Today, it IS a problem. Whether you want to admit it or not. I personally think you know it's a problem however don't want to touch on it because how dare *gasp* you admit I have a point.

 

You comparing women wanting to look attractive to men mastubating to porn isn't a fair comparison. Not by a long shot. And I said it before. I do agree that women like being looked at more then men and men like looking more then women. It doesn't feel good when you see the guy you are into and dating looking at other women, and really why should it? That's natural too. And it is even more disloyal when he goes outside of your relatoinship to fullfill certain needs through thigns like porn. If you want to defend porn as normal and natural, then at least have the balls to defend and understand that natural and protective feels it can conjure up in women when you know your guy is selectively seeking out other women. And don't give me that crap about it "just being video and not real". If it's real enough to turn him on and cause certain reactions and feelings, it's real enough to make a woman naturally question where her guys head is. Look, you love your porn and want to defend it. Porn is important to you. Fine. Alot of women are fine with that. But alot of women aren't and they want more from life then being stuck with a man that feels like he is settling for what he has and has to fulfill what he feels he is missing out on through over the top, derogatory and often stereotyped porn about how women should look at act tobe considered good enough to sleep with. You like your porn, that's great. That's what you want to make important in your life, you can. I want a man that actually wants more from life then something like that.

[A O]

Are you orginally from New Zealnd AO?

Originally and still in NZ yes (although I live nowhere near the world-renowned wine producing region of Marlborough, where Cloudy Bay originates from however).

 

Once again you are trying to compare apples to oranges. Men want to look attractive too.

Just like women view porn too, but everyone knows full well, who does more of which. Remember that apples and oranges are both fruit, so in regards to this topic, I'm explaining the interconnection, as well as, if not moreso than the differences.

 

You comparing women wanting to look attractive to men mastubating to porn isn't a fair comparison. Not by a long shot.

I'm simply explaining the driver behind both behaviors and how this "same" driver influences the sexes differently, in a general sense.

 

It doesn't feel good when you see the guy you are into and dating looking at other women, and really why should it? That's natural too

Agreed. There's a counter argument if you want it (bearing in mind that one behavior feeds off the other).

 

And it is even more disloyal when he goes outside of your relatoinship to fullfill certain needs through thigns like porn.

Disloyalty in this sense is highly subjective. More to the point, its arguably equally disloyal if one's partner needs to make themself look attractive while not in the company of their other half. What need drives a women to look attractive, to feel desired while not in the company of her partner. What need drives this? Simple, its the same biologic need that drives men to desire, to look. Neither sex can turn this behavior off easily.

 

In short, you're asking a lot from men but very little, if anything from women. That's unrealistic to say the least.

 

.

[Jersey Shortie]

Three times the charm perhaps? I've said it twice before, you want to compare men masturbating to porn to women wanting to look attractive. Every man here better darn well thank god that at least their woman is going out to be in porn and post pictures of herself to get attention to the same degree that these men are seeking these exact images out from other women. Or should be thanking god that she isn't deciding to be a stripper as a lark "once-in-awhile" , like alot of men claim is okay to go see strippers "once-in-awhile".

 

This isn't a matter of not asking anything from women. I never said women don't have responsiblity to act with respect to their partner or don't infact have other responsiblities. When it comes to relationships, it's usually the woman putting more of the effort and thought into it.

 

The subject has been, and hasn't changed from, men and their porn use. I don't ask for perfection. I do ask for a little mores self control, and masculinity then passivity. Can you imagine what would happen if men actually were more giving and sharing of their lives and lived more in reality with their woman then always looking for whatever it was they didn't have? I bet more men would be getting steak dinners every night. But men today rather focus on the things they don't have instead of respecting the woman who has stood by his side.

 

We don't exactly live in a world where people want to exercise self control. And sadly, I think male porn use is more of an epidemic then even obescity is in people. It's just the white elephant in the room that men don't want to look too closely at themselves. And I think men KNOW that they view porn more then their fathers did and there is something sad in that. In the amount of time today's men spend looking at porn instead of being engaged in real life. You want to keep decrying that women wanting to look attractive is equal to men activitly spending time donwloading and looking at porn of implanted 18-25, year olds. You can. But it's a lame arguement.

 

Yeap, women want to look attractive men look. But you know what? Not all women are out there wearing low cut tops and mini skirts looking for attention from other men. Infact, most average normal women with boyfriends and husbands aren't. Most women want to look nice but aren't exactly showing off the "goods". Huge difference between wanting to look your best, and showing off your t&a. How many men can claim they don't look when a chick in a mini skirt and low cut top walk by? Hey, if your man is going to give that attention to other women, you might as well get it from other men as much as you can right? Because men certainly don't want to exercise anything as honorable as self control. But you know what? I think more women are more likely to show respect for their partner by not purposely seeking out such attention even while their own man is ready to give it out to other women. I just wish men understood what it was like and if they really want relationships, then treat their woman better.

[A O]

Three times the charm perhaps? I've said it twice before, you want to compare men masturbating to porn to women wanting to look attractive.

Three times indeed. And for as many times, I'm looking at the common dynamic (desire) that underpins both behaviors but influences the sexes in different ways (to desire -men, and to be desired - women). Its yin and yang, and for perhaps the first time on this board, I'm explaining the flip side of the coin, the other side of this discussion that very, very few people ever care to think about.

 

In short, I'm explaining nature.

 

Yeap, women want to look attractive men look. But you know what? Not all women are out there wearing low cut tops and mini skirts looking for attention from other men.

Funnily enough, this isn't even the type of attraction I'm talking about. I'm thinking your stock-standard figure hugging clothing in conjunction with a liberal amount of make up. Typical work-wear for many in other words. There's no need for such attire if one is already taken (if one uses your logic). Likewise, workplaces can't force women into wearing or looking like this either in this day and age.

 

I never said women don't have responsiblity to act with respect to their partner or don't infact have other responsiblities.

Good. There's a long way to go before your examination of female behavior reaches anywhere near the levels that you dedicate towards male behavior however. Now, do you have any comments to make about women looking attractive when not in the company of her partner? Is this fine with you, if so why? If you want men to concentrate their natural urge to look, to desire on just their partner only, then what do you think of the women who make themselves look attractive, desirable towards men other than their partner?

 

If the male behavior concerns you so much, then it stands to reason that the natural female behavior woulds concern you equally, right?

 

.

[Jersey Shortie]

Three times indeed. And for as many times, I'm looking at the common dynamic (desire) that underpins both behaviors but influences the sexes in different ways (to desire -men, and to be desired - women). Its yin and yang, and for perhaps the first time on this board, I'm explaining the flip side of the coin, the other side of this discussion that very, very few people ever care to think about.

 

In short, I'm explaining nature.

 

No one needs you to explain nature to them AO, you aren't saying anything ground breaking here. Either am I. You aren't explaining nature or yin and yang. Because yin and yang is that men like to look at women like to be looked at. NOT, that women like to look pretty and men jerk it off to porn. The common thread is desire. However, that has nothing to do with the very different comparison and excuses you are trying to make. A man looking at a woman on the street and a woman noticing him doing it is yin and yang. A man jerking off to porn just because his girlfriend wants to wear a pretty dress isn't.

[A O]

No one needs you to explain nature to them AO, you aren't saying anything ground breaking here.

That's fine, but I'll leave that up to them to decide thank you very much.

 

You aren't explaining nature or yin and yang. Because yin and yang is that men like to look at women like to be looked at.

Exactly. Men look, women like to be looked at. Women attract, men are attracted. Correct.

 

NOT, that women like to look pretty and men jerk it off to porn.

And women frig off to porn too. Whipdee do.

 

The common thread is desire.

Indeed.

 

However, that has nothing to do with the very different comparison and excuses you are trying to make.

It's nature, and nature isn't an excuse.

 

A man looking at a woman on the street and a woman noticing him doing it is yin and yang.

Correct again.

 

A man jerking off to porn just because his girlfriend wants to wear a pretty dress isn't.

Just remember, you're the one who keeps harping on about porn. You wanted to know why one woman isn't enough for a man, I'm giving you and the folks out there the flip side of that very same coin, highlighting that one man simply doesn't satisfy a woman's need either.

 

 

.

[Jersey Shortie]

Lame. You picked off sentences of my post and then tried to twist it to suit your personal purpose.

 

Just remember, you're the one who keeps harping on about porn. You wanted to know why one woman isn't enough for a man, I'm giving you and the folks out there the flip side of that very same coin, highlighting that one man simply doesn't satisfy a woman's need either.

 

 

The thread is about porn. That's what the topic is about. If you don't like it, then don't comment on it. The flip side you think you are giving doesn't even compare. You want to compare men jerking off to porn to women liking to look attractive. You and all the other guys out there better thank your lucky stars that most women aren't looking to be in porn to the same degree men jerk off to it with other women in it.

[A O]

The thread is about porn.

I know what this thread is about, but I essentially started this whole train of thought when you lamented the fact - why isn't one woman enough for a man? In short, you opened the door, and I strode right on through.

 

.

[Jersey Shortie]

I got off the merry-go-round a post ago. Feel free to keep on spinning.

[A O]

No need to spin at the worst of times, let alone now. Why do men want more, more, more....you said it...I responded.

 

.