Classmate hard to read?...

[Bluecat]

So there's this girl I know, and I have no idea what to make of her. She has recently acted in awkward ways and I'm perplexed by it. I apologize that this is long, but hopefully it will provide enough details.

 

Some stats first: She's in college and should be 21 soon. I'm a post-bacc student (graduated college, worked for a few years and came back to school to take more classes) and turned 31 a few months ago. EVERYBODY tells me that I look like I'm 20 - 23. She knows my age and we're studying the same major.

 

I was an undergraduate Teaching Assistant last spring and she was one of my students. She's very hard-working. As a result, she was the one person I interacted with the most, out of all people I interacted with that semester. Since then, we've kept in touch due to taking other classes together. She e-mails me somewhat often about help with school.

 

Over the summer, she wanted to ask me more questions about, school, career, etc. and wanted to meet up. I told her that I would be sightseeing near her area, which is almost an hour away from school. She invited me to her house. We sat outside and talked about school stuff, random non-school stuff, and had a pleasant time. I also met her dad.

 

A few days later, she e-mailed me with more questions, and said that I should drop by whenever I'm in her area again, because she had a lot of fun. A few weeks later, I was going to go sightseeing near her area again and asked her if she wanted to meet up. I got a communications blackout for nearly a week. I texted her the day before my trip, and she finally replied, apologizing and saying that she had to work that day. But when school started this semester, she approached me and seemed happy to see me.

 

Recently, she told me that her sister had painted a mural at a nearby hospital. Later, I was visiting a museum and noticed that the hospital was right across the street. I'm an artist and just simply had to check it out. When I told her I saw the mural, she looked at me like I was weird. But she knows I'm an artist with professional experience.

 

Occasionally I've asked her if she wants to get something to eat together (as I do to everyone I know). She always says no. However, I've noticed that she never gets the free food at school club meetings either. This semester, out of politeness, I've offered her rides between campuses when the classes we take together let out (our school has multiple campuses). She initially accepted a bunch of times, but has recently declined often.

 

This semester, I've been tutoring her for one of her classes. She has also e-mailed, texted, and called by phone regarding help for the class. She has also asked me to be project partners with her for another class we're taking together.

 

I have never asked her out, never hit on her, never said weird things to her, etc. I have always treated her with professionalism, respect, courtesy, and encouragement. The same way I would treat everybody I know. We seem to get along well when she's not acting peculiar. She's usually a very down-to-earth, well-mannered girl. We've shared info about our personal backgrounds with each other. One time she did tell me that she struggles with lack of self-confidence, doesn't have a ton of friends, and is struggling to "get out of her shell". She also has to deal with a lot of stuff at home.

 

Her social behavior towards me is definitely peculiar at times. Does anybody have any ideas about what is up with this girl? I wonder if she misinterprets my friendliness as pursuing her, which therefore scares her, and tries to keep me from "getting too close"?

 

But if that was the case, I figure she would just stay away and never ask me for help anymore. I'm sure she knows other people who have taken the classes before. Yet she keeps interacting with me and keeps coming to me for help with school. Maybe she occasionally tries to reach out socially and then clams up again? Maybe she simply uses me like a tool because I can tolerate her persistence in school? Or maybe I'm just reading too much into this?

 

I don't want to mess up our interaction. I would like to help her succeed with her goals, as she is a good student who just needs a little more faith in herself.

 

Thanks for reading, I greatly appreciate any insights.

[Athena]

What's not clear to me is if YOU like her?

 

If she is shy and lacks confident, I think over time she will become more comfortable with you and get to like you more.

[Curious-One]

I am not sure if you like her as more than a friend If so do the following.

 

I say you make a move on her as soon as possible. Go in for a kiss or if you dont have the balls to do that tell her that you are starting to like her more than a friend.

 

Looks like you are going toward friend zone and if that happens it is very hard to start a romantic relationship w her.

[Peaceful Guy]

i had not even thought that you might be interested in this girl until the other people mentioned it. however, rereading the first line in that context, it does make sense. perhaps there is a mutual attraction there and she is frustrated by your cool professionalism? really, i cant tell, what do you think?

[Bluecat]

Thanks for all your replies thus far. My relationship with her has always been tutor & student. I see her in this way. Because I've never dated (yes it's sadly true), other friends who hear that I'm tutoring a female student have done the obvious, "Are you two gonna go out, ha ha". Then they press the issue hard if I describe her in a positive way.

 

I did think it was kind of ballsy of her, a 20 year old girl, to invite a 31 year old guy over to her house for an afternoon. I was always under the impression that some girls would hesitate about doing such a thing - I don't know, maybe I have prudish preconceptions. Anyway, I thought, "Hmm, is something going on?" But then when I asked to meet up later on, she flaked out. I've tried to objectively observe her behavior since then, and to always be friendly and helpful. But she seems to alternatively run "hot" and "cold".

 

I asked a friend of mine about the mural incident and he didn't think what I did was weird at all. As a matter of fact, he thought the girl's reaction was odd. At first I kind of let her reaction slide, but it's bothering me, so I will bring it up the next time I meet her. When it comes to my interest in art, I don't like it when people second-guess my intentions.

 

I guess what I'm perplexed about goes beyond just her. I was always taught to treat people with respect - especially girls. This includes opening doors for them, walking in pace with them and not walking ahead of them, showing confidence, etc. So this is what I've done.

 

But it just seems like time and time again, girls put up some sort of protective barrier. I don't stalk, stare, or say strange things. I know I behave properly. My guy friends actually think what I do is cool. But it's almost as though girls, on the other hand, automatically assume I'm going to pursue them like a creepster. They seem to put up a barrier at a certain point, even though I'm not pursuing them. At least this is my impression over the years. On the other hand, obnoxious guys who treat girls like garbage seem to attract girls like a magnet. It's weird. Maybe I'm out of date. Is it no longer okay these days to act like a gentleman, to show respect and courtesy towards girls? Should I be less gentlemanly?

Edited October 8, 2009 by Bluecat
grammar fix

[Athena]

You need to read the online book, "No more Mr. Nice Guy" by Robert Glover. Check it out!

[Peaceful Guy]

But then when I asked to meet up later on, she flaked out. I've tried to objectively observe her behavior since then, and to always be friendly and helpful. But she seems to alternatively run "hot" and "cold".

 

i can really relate to your situation. i think that what you're dealing with is a difference in maturity level. ive found that women younger than me (i guess it could be women of any age, or anybody really) seem to overthink situations, don't know how to appropriately deal, and then end up behaving erratically.. sometimes leaving me with a big question mark. it does make sense, we can understand how a lack of maturity (experience, understanding, or whatever you want to call it) could cause irrational behaviors, but its still frustrating when it happens. im not trying to sound superior here, this is just how i understand it. i dont think less of these people, but it helps to understand it this way instead of beating myself up about it. basically, even though it hurts, you didn't really have control over it.

 

When it comes to my interest in art, I don't like it when people second-guess my intentions.

 

you don't have to defend yourself. what you did was totally resonable. put it out of your head.

 

Should I be less gentlemanly?

 

absolutely not. you have to look at things in the big picture. even though you wanted things to go differently with this girl, in the long run this was the best possible outcome for you. maybe she missed out, but you're free of a relationship with someone less mature than you. you do this already(or something similar).. but continue to think,, how would i feel if someone treated my sister, cousin, future wife, or mom in the past this way? please don't let this turn you into a jerk. i guess the fear is, what if by being myself (nice) i end up alone? well, it hasn't happened yet, and i'll take a chance on things ending up really good.. i dont want to sound preachy, but i really get the feeling you share a similar perspective.. just trying to remind you of some stuff you probably already know.

[4givrnt4gtr]

Hmm well as a girl.....

 

If i were her I would think you kind of like me.

 

Point blank

 

Its true...we do overanalyze EVERYTHING. Let alone that we have in our brains that men are not nice just to be nice..ever. They want something, and usually it is either to date us, to hook up with us etc. Unless you talk to her about other girls, she is gonna take your offers for dinners, rides etc as attempts to make a move. Especially if she is insecured

 

Now, the fact that she isnt running for the hills says she is kind of interested in you, but isnt sure what you want so she keeps going back and forth. Our train of thought in this situation usually goes like this:

 

"Oh my god! he is gonna give me a ride! he likes me!!" and then dinner happens and you dont say anything about dating etc so she thinks "uhh well thats weird, why is he driving me around but hasnt asked me out?? ughhh what a jerk"

which in turn makes her decline your next offer to hang out because in her mind you are just messing with her. Etc Ad Nauseum. In order to avoid this right now and in future interactions, make sure the girl has a clear idea of what you want from her. Clear as day if possible. IF you only see her as a friend, let that be clear. If you want more, make that clear as well. If you want to see how you feel about her, again, make it clear. What drives us crazy is the mixed signals, which makes us act like nut jobs because we dont know what you men want from us

 

Now, from experience the only way she is gonna have it clear that you dont like her is if YOU make that clear. Either let her know in the nicest way possible: "oh you're such a great girl, I have a friend who would love to meet you" (if u have a friend) or "ohhh that guy in class?? yeah totally checking you out, you should talk to him!" (or something maybe not as immature as that but you get my drift).

 

Even then, if the girl wants to think you like her for whatever reason, she will. As i said most of us are not used to have a guy being nice to us without alterior motives. Sad but true.

Edited October 8, 2009 by 4givrnt4gtr

[Bluecat]

Thank you everyone for your replies. Just wanted to give an update. Well, unfortunately my interaction with this student has seemed to have gone downhill. As the semester has gone on, I have found it increasingly hard to get her to say hi in class. As a matter of fact, she now generally disacknowledges me in one of her classes. She'll give me a quick nervous split-second glance and then look back down to whatever she's doing. So I don't even have the chance to give her a hello nod. In another class, she will speak with me sometimes, but I think she does it when there's nobody else around, or if she has no choice. At least this is the sense I'm getting.

 

Meanwhile, she is her normal self when she hangs around other people. Again, I have never ever treated her any differently than when I was her teaching assistant. I have ALWAYS given her my best respect, professionalism, and encouragement. It seems obnoxious that she can be chummy with other people, yet suddenly begin to ignore someone who SHE HAS ASKED to help her out across the last year.

 

A couple of weeks ago, I was at a field trip and she was there. Her dad tagged along. I had met him before, and he remembered me. Overall, I got a much more enthusiastic interaction out of him than her during the trip!

 

Last week, she and I actually had a pleasant conversation, like old times. We wished each other good luck on our respective exams. But a few days later, I got the sense she was trying to brush me off. I needed to ask her about classwork. We both took the bus back to a different part of campus after class. The entire way, I was sitting next to her and she kept talking to another student and totally did not acknowledge me. This went on for about 15 minutes. After everyone got off the bus, I had to pretty much chase her down to ask about the classwork. She gave kind of a half-assed answer, "Um, I don't know, ask so-and-so...sorry..." I mean, WTF? The entire episode felt SO weird.

 

She has also pretty much stopped coming to me for help, and goes to other people who are still taking the same classes as her (read: people who have not yet completed the classes). Of course, it's her choice to go to whoever she wants for help. But it's weird that she has stopped coming to someone who has gone through these courses with top grades. The other day, I overheard her express frustration to another classmate about how it was kind of hard to get help with a particular class (a class I had helped her with a bunch at the beginning of the semester). He suggested that she should talk to me. I felt so vindicated.

 

The help, time, and advice I have given this student over the last year has been huge - it's a fact. She was the one who repeatedly approached me for help and advice over the last year, and now she's giving me this weirdness all of a sudden? It's rude and disrespectful. I honestly thought she would be the last person who would act this way. I've tried to give her the benefit of the doubt. I mean, pre-med stress can make even the best people go weird. But still...

 

A couple of people I have talked to all say that her behavior is obnoxious and odd. They think it could be a confidence/self-esteem issue. Perhaps she's not used to a strong student giving her a positive attitude and encouragement. I have also talked to her a couple of times about this, to see if everything is okay. She claims it's not me, that she gets like this sometimes. But I seriously don't know what to believe, because she doesn't get like this with everybody else. Her answer feels like BS. I suspect something is going on.

 

I have greatly valued our interactions together, because I always manage to learn something new and improve as a student and tutor. And I've always meant well. But I fear that, for some reason, she might be letting our interaction fizzle off. If so, it's really too bad for her, because she will DEFINITELY be hard pressed to find another student who is willing and CAPABLE of helping her as much as I have. This whole thing could be a train wreck in slow motion, and I can't do anything about it. It's really unfortunate.

 

Sorry if this is long and sounds like a bunch of complaining. I'm stressed and need to vent. It's embarrassing that I'm a 31 year-old guy and can't figure out a 20 year-old girl!

Edited October 30, 2009 by Bluecat
Remove html code and correct typo

[Peaceful Guy]

Sorry if this is long and sounds like a bunch of complaining. I'm stressed and need to vent. It's embarrassing that I'm a 31 year-old guy and can't figure out a 20 year-old girl!

 

nah, it all sounds pretty valid to me. it may suck now, but in the future you'll have forgotten (emotionally, hopefully) about all the bull, and just remember that you were helpful to a classmate, and played it cool as a friend. you're in the clear my man, no worries!

[Bluecat]

Thanks for all the feedback. I really appreciate it. Peaceful Guy, thanks a lot for the encouragement. Although all this stuff has been puzzling, I have definitely not let it distract me from my own schoolwork.

 

Well, I spoke with a female student (for convenience we'll call her Jane) and she shed some light on what might be going on with this student I was helping (for convenience we'll call her Sarah). Jane helped Sarah before me, and eventually befriended her. Over time, Sarah did similar things to Jane, like what has been happening to me this semester.

 

Jane said that Sarah seems to have some pretty serious trust issues, self-confidence issues, and friendship issues. Sometimes Sarah will go off and isolate herself too. She looks like a well-adjusted, mild-mannered, super student when you first meet her. She seems to have no problem making acquaintances. But once you get to know her at a more personalized level, at a certain point, she starts to avoid you, like she's scared. It most likely stems from some heavy ongoing issues in Sarah's family. Sarah had told me very vaguely about certain things going on in her family, but I didn't realize they were affecting her to this extent. Then the stress of school just compounds everything.

 

When I walk into class these days, she will ignore me, like I'm the one person in the room who is invisible until needed. Or she'll nervously glance at me and then look back down. Or she'll just stare at me for a few seconds. The only thing I can do is mirror Sarah's actions right back at her, because saying hi has obviously become too hard for her. Recently we've interacted over a project. She's focused and engaged, but the vibe feels tense. Very different than last spring, summer, and the early part of this semester.

 

As for the mural incident (see original post), I confronted her about it. She got kind of embarrassed and was like, "No no...actually I was impressed that you went to see it...I was just surprised that you remembered...I could have told a bunch of people and nobody would have remembered...it goes to show what kind of person you are..." So it seems like she's not used to people being totally sincere with her or something...

 

When Sarah asked me for school help this semester, I just thought I was signing on for another tour of duty. I didn't expect to totally get hit in the face with her emotions, and wind up posting on LoveShack to ask for insight!

 

Ultimately I'm not mad at her, because her actions seem to be based on instinct, derived from her issues outside of school. I figure at this point, I could either keep away, or just hang around and be supportive. If I keep away, I think it would just help contribute to her insecurities. So it seems like the sensible option is to hang around and be supportive. And then maybe someday she'll understand there are people out there who are willing to be nice to her!

 

I do wonder if I should just let all this slide? Or if I should talk openly with her after the semester is over, and let her know in a non-judging, non-threatening way about what I experienced, and that I am supportive of her?

Edited December 4, 2009 by Bluecat

[boogieboy]

Dude, she doesnt want to talk to you anymore, and your being a nudge. She is repulsed by you now because you are clueless. You are becoming annoying to her, and shes too immature to tell you she doesnt want to talk to you anymore.

 

Ill let you in on what happened with her.

 

She liked you at first, but you never made a move. Too nice.

If you like someone you have to show them right away. No bones about it. Light physical touching and all. You confuse her oif you dont escalate things with her.

 

She thought you liked her because you kept offering her things, and then you offered too much. She didnt feel like she earned your offerings, you cant do that. Your personality is enough, you dont have to offer anything else. Rides, other things, you might as well have been giving her flowers everytime you saw her. It reeks of desperation, its not gentlemanly. A gentleman can be charming without acting like he is trying to buy her attraction.

 

She lost interest when you didnt make a move, and once they lose interest, youre done for, they wont want to speak to you when they know you like them. Thats when she started flaking on get togethers.

 

She is frustrated because you cant take hints, hints of "i like you" and then hints of "i lost interest, why wont you go away?"

 

Youre a nice guy and she feels guilty that she doesnt want to talk to you and cant tell you. Thats why she is hot and cold.

 

If you are 31 and dont know how to read women, you need to work on that immediately. Start talking to more women at school and get yourself a gf. Youre not getting any younger! Dont let your drive for a 2nd degree take too much time away from learning life...dont let it make you into a social misfit.

Edited December 4, 2009 by boogieboy

[Bluecat]

Huh? Remember, she also did the same thing to a FEMALE student. So this must mean she's, like, bisexual?

[boogieboy]

Huh? Remember, she also did the same thing to a FEMALE student. So this must mean she's, like, bisexual?

 

Dont make excuses for her! And dont listen to women who are trying to make you feel better, they will lie to you. It doesnt matter what she did to the other girl, she made it apparent that she wants to steer clear of you. Theres no way back either. Get the book "no more mr nice guy". Pleeeease do it.

[Peaceful Guy]

It reeks of desperation, its not gentlemanly.

 

i think this has happened to me.. of course, its frustrating, because i didnt want anything from them. it looks like desperation, because i must want something, right? when people see me this way i feel like they need to get over themselves.

[Bluecat]

Peaceful Guy, I agree. Actually it's not just "Jane" and me who got the awkward treatment from "Sarah". A couple of other people I've talked to have received the same awkwardness. With acquaintances, Sarah can still keep on her "game face" and interact fine with them. With the people she knows at a more personal level, it's a little more complicated. I recently read about the family problems Sarah had told me about, and how these problems affect family members. Sarah is essentially a checklist for the issues that commonly come up. So although this whole situation may have looked different at first glance, at this point I know absolutely for sure this chick is struggling with some tough personal difficulties, and I had just wanted to update my thread regarding it.

 

I just act as myself. If other people want to misinterpret my generosity and take it for granted, it's really their problem, not mine! Life goes on!

Edited December 5, 2009 by Bluecat

[Bluecat]

I should also add that I don't go through life with the assumption that girls in general will lie to me in order to make me feel better. It's paranoid and cynical. Sure, it's possible the person could be lying. But I always initially extend a certain amount of tentative trust to people, because it's the proper thing to do. I actually do it also as a way to gauge people's characters. Eventually, the liars will be revealed in one way or another. If I second guess every girl (or everyone) I meet, I would just push away the people who ARE being honest.

 

Also, I have absolutely no interest in the massive amounts of game playing, so-called rules, and mind games I've observed from people who are dating, or are chasing each other. It just makes such a mess, time and time again. Then people wonder what went wrong, and repeat the cycle.

 

While I'm on this topic, friends of mine who are married or in steady relationships all say that for things to work, there must not be any game playing at all, and that relationships take time to start and build. They say the important thing is to show a girl that she can be comfortable around you and trust you, and that it does take time to do so. But if you want a quick bed fling, then you'll most likely end up playing games. Then you end up with a mess. People can charge me all they want with being "clueless" about game playing, mind games, and rules, but I'd rather not get involved in any of that stuff, for the sake of my own sanity!!!

Edited December 5, 2009 by Bluecat

[doushenka]

Bluecat, you've done absolutely nothing wrong that I can see. Sarah reminds me of myself-as-was in a lot of ways, actually; I'm not surprised she has trust issues. Let people get too close and they'll inevitably betray you, right? No wonder she runs away from everyone!

 

Mind you, that's not an excuse. I got help for my problems. I can only hope Sarah will do the same.

 

Just be who you've been all along. Let her see that you're not going to turn on her. People with trust issues often lack stability in relationships, so when we do trust again, it'll be someone who's not going to pull a 180 on us! I'm not saying invest yourself in her more than a tutor would in a student, but be your constant self.

 

I wish I'd had someone like you when I was a confused, scared girl of twenty.

[Bluecat]

Doushenka, I think your advice makes a lot of sense. Thank you for sharing your insights, I greatly appreciate it.