The logic of LDRs

[infiniteQuest]

I've been lurking on the LDR forums lately, being in an LDR myself. I've been with my bf for 4 years and in an LDR for 2, where we see each other about twice a month. My dilemma is that when we're together, everything's great, but as soon as he is away, I get angry at him because he doesn't know when he will be able to put an end to our LDR.

 

Also there is the fact that I cannot logically justify being in an LDR for an indeterminate period of time, I can only justify it emotionally. But thinking logically, can an LDR be at all justified?

 

If it is true that your LDR SO is the absolute only love of your life who loves you more than anything else and is worth the years of LDR agony, then wouldn't this person by definition do everything to put an end to the LDR? If he doesn't put and end to the LDR, this means that he does not love you more than anything else (eg. their job), and hence he is not worth the years of LDR agony.

 

Doesn't the mere fact that your SO is making you go LD prove that his priority is not you? How can one justify the LDR suffering if they aren't even a priority for the one who's making them suffer in the first place?

[Thornton]

Sometimes, no matter how much you love someone, there are extenuating circumstances that keep you apart. It could be immigration issues for example, so you can't be together right away no matter how much you want to. Or it could be financial issues - you can't afford to move to where the other person lives right away, you have to save up or find a new job first.

 

Sometimes it's just not sensible to give up everything in your life to be with someone - e.g. if you're already two years through school it makes no sense to completely ruin your future job prospects by skipping out on your third year to be with some guy/girl and not getting your degree. How could you afford to have a decent life with /her if you were unemployed anyway? How could you have a happy life with him/her if you were stuck in some miserable dead-end job because you walked out of school? Plus relationships are never 100% predictable, so it doesn't make sense to completely give up on everything else that's important to you, because if the relationship breaks up you'll be left with nothing.

 

It comes down to common sense - no matter how much you love someone, you simply cannot sacrifice everything else in your life for them - that's called putting all your eggs in one basket!

[Rollercoasterr]

I think that you're assuming all LD's are like yours. That is not the case. I met my SO online. Many here have done the same. You can't justify love. It has no reason to it. You just love someone. And when you love that person with all of your being and with every ounce of your soul, you know that they are the ONLY one for you. I know several people on this forum who feel that way about their SO's.

 

I cannot be with my SO at the drop of a hat. Many of us can't. We have country borders, and oceans separating some of us. In that case you have to go through red tape to be together forever. Is it easy? Hell no. Is it worth it? Hell yes.

 

Sometimes distance can't be helped. Let's pretend for a second. Would you rather your SO go to medical school a thousand miles away, or stay by your side and be a dishwasher? If the only reason for the distance was to make a better life for you and your future family would you feel so much resentment then? Probably not, if you loved him.

 

I, like many others here, would walk through fire, swim all the oceans, and climb the highest mountains to see my love. I never regret a second of that, and I'm never "in agony" because I know our distance is coming to a close. Mathew is my soul-mate in every description the phrase could take. He's the one for me and nothing will keep us apart.

 

LDR isn't for the light of heart. And why can't YOU bring the distance to a close? Why must it always rest on ONE PERSONS shoulders? You have just as much ability as he does to end the distance.

[Els]

Logically speaking, LDRs are an investment both ways. An investment of emotions and time (in the relationship sense), as well as an investment of finance/career/education for the future. It is simply that we finish whatever is necessary before we move to be together, so that we will have a better future together. Leaving school and moving penniless and skill-less to be with the one you love not only bodes badly for the relationship, but also places a terrible burden on the other person.

[SuburbanOblivion]

I read here daily, but seldom log in. This right here made me do a double-take..

 

 

LDR isn't for the light of heart. And why can't YOU bring the distance to a close? Why must it always rest on ONE PERSONS shoulders? You have just as much ability as he does to end the distance.

 

Bingo!

 

OP, Why is he being accused of not caring, when you clearly aren't willing to do exactly what you expect him to do? Doesn't that say that you don't care about him either?

 

The fact of it is logic has very little to do with love. I think I can safely speak for everyone in this forum in that none of us would purposely choose to fall for someone who is so far away. It's a very, VERY hard thing to deal with, even under the best of circumstances. This wasn't a decision any of us made out of logic, but out of love.

 

Logic is what comes after love, at least if you have any hope of surviving a LDR. Logic is the part where you sit down and decide how to make it work. Logic is where you work out a schedule of regular contact. Logic is where you make plans to see each other despite the distance. Logic is where you realize you are partners working towards a common goal, not someone sitting and pouting because if the other person loves you, they would....

 

If that's the attitude you plan to keep on with, just walk away now, because it will never work. Give and take is important in any relationship, but in a LDR it's vital.

[infiniteQuest]

Most of you seem to be in an LDR that has some sort of a deadline, a definite goal set in the future where you will be together. Where you can put a countdown ticker on your desktop and have something to look forward to. Well I don't have that luxury.

 

I've been with my SO for 4 years total. First 2 years we were living in the same city, but he was studying very hard and we weren't living together, so it was sort of long distance. I'd see him maybe twice a month to do an activity. I was okay with that, to me it was worth it cause in the future he'd get a high paying job like me, and we'd both be financially stable and happy. So he graduated and got the job, but it required him to travel and spend 2/3 weeks in another country, and being on call pretty much 24/7. I was okay with that, it would have been foolish to turn down the job because he needed the experience. Now it's 2 more years down the line, he is overworked and wants to look for another job, but he is still looking at consulting jobs that will require travel. So it's been 4 years and I just can't seem to be able to cash in on my "investment" any time soon. I just don't know anybody who's been in an LDR for that long, without any end in sight.

 

When I am with him, emotions take over, and I feel great and I feel like it's all worth it. But then we don't see each other and don't get to have a quality conversation for over a week, and I keep waiting by the phone, and my head takes over, and it just keeps telling me "WHY DO YOU WANT TO KEEP DOING THIS TO YOURSELF FOR GOD KNOWS HOW MUCH LONGER".

[shame]

My parents had (and I guess still have, in a way) that kind of situation and they have been happily married for almost 30 years now.

 

Dad is in the technology business and he has no education what so ever - he decided not to finish his school but to work his way up in order to be able to provide my mom a nice life. He managed to do that but with his line of work it is long working days and travelling a lot. Just after two weeks of me being born he left to work two months in Germany and my mom was left with two kids alone at home. He has been away on several occasions, the longest period of time might be 10 months in London, from where he made two weekend trips to visit us back home. When he's not travelling, he's working from 7am to 8pm in a city 120 kilometres aways from where we live and he drives there and back every day.

 

He has been an absent dad and an absent husband but I have never, ever heard my mom complain. That is something I call love. They never gave up even though they knew that situation wasn't changing anytime soon but they accepted it as reality and made it work. It is still working because they love each other and that's the way it should be. They just take it as it came and they accepted the situation. Dad was never happy to go even though he wanted. I guess it has a lot to do with understanding how your actions affect the other person, discussing about it and compromising on some things.

 

Now it's getting better since my dad has been getting better and better jobs which allow him to spend more time at home. He now takes a lot of time off and does little trips with my mom. They go to Iceland, Lapland, Switzerland and spend a lot of time just enjoying the environment and their time together. And I bet my last money that when they got married and bought house, they had no idea when they would actually get to spend that much time together and they still took the chanche.

 

I had a similar situation as well when I was living with my fiancee. He's working as a light-technician by night and in a warehouse by day and he is slowly making his way up, doing less and less work at the warehouse and more and more in the actual field. In the spring and summer I got to see him for a goodnight kiss, sometimes not even that. He said hi and bye and that was it. I didn't give up on him or on us because his job actually makes him happy and it helps him to save money so that we can do nice things together when he actually has some time off. It is going to be even worse the better he gets, the more appreciated he gets and I am fully aware of the fact that I might end up in a marriage just like my mom and dad and it doesn't bother me. They are a happy couple and we are a happy family.

 

Even if we are LD now just because I have to get my Bachelor's but it doesn't change the fact that even after I get to move back to him, we won't be spending every day together. He'll still work hard and I'll still spend most of my weekends without seeing him and the weeks of not knowing if he gets home before midnight or not. There is no end in sight but he is worth the wait.

 

You shouldn't be concentrating on the time that you spend apart. You should be thinking about what he is doing for himself and you. Some people want to do certain things with their lives and no one has the right to go and say, that they are treating someone else wrong. It's not about being selfish but has a lot to do with trying to fit several parts of life together to come up with a solution that has the best result.

 

If you can't handle him doing a job he likes the way he likes it (seems to me that he really likes to travel), I think you should re-evaluate your relationship.

[SuburbanOblivion]

OP, I still don't see an explanation of why you can't or won't move to where he is based. Obviously he will always be traveling, but it would be a lot easier if you were within driving distance of where his 'home' place is so you could see each other during the down time.

 

Or better yet, why not move in together?

 

The traveling itself is just something you are going to have to accept or move on. It's part of who he is and what he does, and he'd be stupid to change that for a relationship that might or might not last.

[Els]

OP, have you talked with him about what's going to happen in the future? About his plans for the both of you, and your plans?

 

I don't have a set ticker - we have a tentative time and plan, but as with most immigration plans, there are just about 376321976243 things that can possibly go wrong with it. But you're right, that's entirely different from having a completely indefinite time frame.

 

Frankly - this is just hypothetical, but I hope that it's something that I would have the strength to do. If I were in your place, and my guy said, 'This is just how it's gonna be, for the rest of our lives - I have no intentions of changing or compromising anything to be with you', I hope I would leave. Some people can stand having a 'distance' relationship (as with people in the marines, flight attendants, etc) for ALL time - I can't. Whether you can or not, is up to you. Regardless, you should definitely talk to him about it first.

[ON MY OWN]

I've been lurking on the LDR forums lately, being in an LDR myself. I've been with my bf for 4 years and in an LDR for 2, where we see each other about twice a month. My dilemma is that when we're together, everything's great, but as soon as he is away, I get angry at him because he doesn't know when he will be able to put an end to our LDR.

 

Also there is the fact that I cannot logically justify being in an LDR for an indeterminate period of time, I can only justify it emotionally. But thinking logically, can an LDR be at all justified?

 

If it is true that your LDR SO is the absolute only love of your life who loves you more than anything else and is worth the years of LDR agony, then wouldn't this person by definition do everything to put an end to the LDR? If he doesn't put and end to the LDR, this means that he does not love you more than anything else (eg. their job), and hence he is not worth the years of LDR agony.

 

Doesn't the mere fact that your SO is making you go LD prove that his priority is not you? How can one justify the LDR suffering if they aren't even a priority for the one who's making them suffer in the first place?

Pertaining to you being a priority, LOGICALLY speaking as what you are wanting to know about is IMO opinion it depends on all the circumstances surrounding your particular situation as to WHY it is LDR in the first place.

For example I am in an LDR as well and havent seen my bf for 2 weeks and wont see him for about another 2. We have some financial issues at stake. Not to hijack your thread, but wanted to give you an example. Some times it helps to see what other people go through. Please feel free to ask me anything. I need to know a little more about your particular situation before I could make a definite determination on the answer I would give to you.

[infiniteQuest]

That's a great story of love that has made it through tough times, and of a man who has worked hard all of his life to provide for his family. I admire people like that, I really do. But my bf's and my generation are the products of families who have worked all of their lives to give us the luxury of basic wealth, and freedom to choose our career and life paths without having to slave away for years at a factory in order to be able to pay the bills.

 

Sure we are starting off at the bottom of the corporate ladder and we are by no means millionaires, but we are nevertheless free to choose not to sacrifice our families, our emotional well-being, and our health, for the sake of making more and more money. Material things are such that there is never enough of them. No matter how hard you work, you always want more. And if you're starting your life off with a pattern of giving everything else up for a dozen more grand in your paycheck at the end of the year, there is a real danger that this attitude will continue for an indefinite period of time, as it did with your parents. When should one stop saving money and start spending it on things that matter? Do you know how many working class people die with hundreds of thousands of dollars saved up in their bank accounts, only because they've been trapped in a mentality of saving all of their lives and never learned to enjoy themselves right here and right now? Most people still wait till they're 65 to enjoy their life with their partner, and that doesn't mean that it's the right thing to do.

 

This is the reason why I am thinking about giving up on this relationship if he doesn't place a priority on changing his current job situation. Achievements and money are important, but I simply don't subscribe to the philosophy that makes people work and save until they're 65 before they get to enjoy life with their partner. I strive for a balance in life, a well-roundness.

 

Because it's important to have a balance between the relationship and the job, I am not asking him to give up travel altogether either. I simply asked him to find a job that will allow him to spend 1/2 weeks with me instead of 1/3, and that will allow him to have more free time to at least have a couple of hours in the evening to spend with me, instead of always working. I realize he might not find something that fits exactly these criteria, but I asked him to set this as a goal for himself for the next little while, and to place that as the #1 priority on the forefront of his mind. But the more we discussed this, the more I realized that he isn't able to commit to having such a priority. He said he has "too much going on" in his life and doesn't know what his priorities are. Further proving my point that I'm just sitting here waiting for an improvement that will never happen.

[infiniteQuest]

OP, I still don't see an explanation of why you can't or won't move to where he is based. Obviously he will always be traveling, but it would be a lot easier if you were within driving distance of where his 'home' place is so you could see each other during the down time.

 

Or better yet, why not move in together?

 

On my end, I've committed to buying a house for us so that we see more of each other during the times that he is here. It's a huge commitment for me and I will be giving up a lot of my comfort for this.

[shame]

I may have given the wrong impression of the situation (it always happens when someone tries to put a whole lot in very small amount of words). My dad wasn't a "worker". By the time he quit working for Nokia (if you don't anything else about it, you should at least know the cell phones) he was the sixth person below the head executive of the company. And please, bear with me when I have some of the terms wrong, I'm not a native speaker so I simply don't have a clue about this kind of terms.

 

In the beginning, he did start working just provide mom instead of finishing his school. They bought a house in their early 20s and a couple of years later they had us, three children. They have always had a good financial situation ever since and I guess he could have worked less, but the line of work he's in just doesn't give you much choices. It doesn't help that he has always been passionate about his work, he loves what he does and he' damn good at it. Everytime he realised that he's not spending enough time at home, he would work less. He made compromises between work and family and found a balance there. As long as I can remember, him working has never really been just about money.

 

Considering the nature of his work, my parents thought that it would be good to have mom stay at home for a short period of time. Well, that turned out to be 13 years and she was happy with it. Dad made it possible with his work and he still managed to spend time with us. He was still there even though he did work and travel a lot. Sometimes he turned down promotions just because it would have meant spending less time at home with us. We made a lot of family trips, we went for walks in the forest, picnics, amusement parks - you name it, we did it.

 

Money was never an issue. When planning a trip to an amusement park, money was never brought up. They knew it would be expensive just to get five persons in and then all the food as well. We got ice cream, cotton candy and we even got to play the games there. We were taught to be reasonable but not to be over-protective about our money.

 

I totally get what you mean with the saving mentality but as you can see it's not exactly where I was coming from. I was talking about compromises and how sometimes really hard and awkward situations seem to turn out for the best.

 

How old are you guys? Because I really have something to say and I don't know if it can bring any perspective in your situation. If not, feel free to ignore the following.

 

I think that young people expect too much of themselves and too much of life all together. Things are wanted the easy way and everybody's supposed to know what's going to happen next and how they're going to live their lives when in my eyes it just seems something impossible to achieve. I think it's ok to be young and confused. I think it's ok not knowing what your priorities are.

 

I find the thought of being in my early 20s and knowing exactly how my life is going play itself out in the future absolutely terrifying. I make commitments but I don't expect things to follow a certain pattern because no one can say at such an early stage that this is exactly how things are going to be forever, that it's going to be possible to live my life the way I want to and have the things in my life I want there.

 

If your SO said, that he doesn't know what his priorities are, it doesn't necessarily mean that he's not commited to you and your relationship. It can simply be just an honest remark about being lost and confused.

 

If I were in your shoes, I would have a big conversation with him, face to face if possible. It really seems like you're ready to settle down and he's not even sure what's going on in his life. Maybe you can find a compromise or maybe there really is no point in you waiting anymore. You need to find out what really is going on in his head, is he just lost or is the time spent with you just not on of his priorities. But talking it all through might be a big help (even if it might hurt and be hard) in making your desicion if you want to be in that relationship anymore.

 

I wish you all the best. I really do.

[SuburbanOblivion]

On my end, I've committed to buying a house for us so that we see more of each other during the times that he is here. It's a huge commitment for me and I will be giving up a lot of my comfort for this.

 

Or in other words, you are buying a house, where you already live, that you will keep for yourself no matter what happens with him.

 

Am I wrong?

 

Not saying it's not a sacrifice, you probably weren't planning on buying a house just yet, but when it comes down to it this is something you would have done for yourself eventually anyways.

 

I'm still just having a really hard time with 'he should change jobs' and 'he should move' when in reality you aren't willing to make nearly as big changes in your own life.

 

Why not meet in the middle? Buy the house where he lives or plans to settle down.

[SuburbanOblivion]

Please don't think I'm getting at you or anything btw, just trying to give you a different perspective from someone who is in a very long, very long distance relationship herself

[infiniteQuest]

Thanks for your kind wishes and your input, Shame. It's interesting what you give as an example in the case of your family, but I find that your own thoughts about your family are contradictory. You seem to be trying to say that you're living proof that with a husband and wife in a LDR, your mom has never complained, and your family turned out to be OK. Yet, this one sentence strikes a chord with me: "He has been an absent dad and an absent husband". Your mother obviously did a stellar job raising you and your siblings, and keeping the family together so well that you never had an idea of how hard it was for her. A child should never be part of his parents' arguments or relationship problems, and it looks like your mother did everything in her power to give her children the bliss of not having idea of how much she was struggling. My hat goes off to her, it must have taken so much strength to raise 3 children on her own.

 

However, with "an absent dad and an absent husband" by his own choice is not what I call a normal and successful marriage for neither your dad nor your mom. Maybe I don't understand the exact situation of your parents, since on one hand you say that he was absent all the time, but on the other hand you say that you did all of these activities together and that he compromised big time to be with his children. Going for vacations together every few months is easy. Vacations are happy time, where everything's perfect and everybody gets along. The benefits of a true relationship are in helping enhance your day-to-day life, raising kids as a team, facing life's challenges and joys together. If you can't have a partner who will be in your life to experience it with you for 10+ years, then it simply isn't a relationship.

 

A little about me: I am 24 and he is 26. I've had several long conversations with him about this. It's been 4 years now that he's been pursuing his own goals as a priority, and I don't want to see that pattern go on forever. I know that he is committed to me, but he is also committed to his own career goals, and that's why he is confused. If I asked him to choose either one or the other he wouldn't know which one is more important. Well, if he can't figure out what his priorities are then our relationship will forever be in this state where it just de facto comes after his job because it's easier to apologize to me for not being there than it is to his boss.

[infiniteQuest]

Or in other words, you are buying a house, where you already live, that you will keep for yourself no matter what happens with him.

 

Am I wrong?

 

Not saying it's not a sacrifice, you probably weren't planning on buying a house just yet, but when it comes down to it this is something you would have done for yourself eventually anyways.

 

I'm still just having a really hard time with 'he should change jobs' and 'he should move' when in reality you aren't willing to make nearly as big changes in your own life.

 

Why not meet in the middle? Buy the house where he lives or plans to settle down.

 

We're getting into details now. He does live in the same town as me when he isn't traveling, which is about one week out of 3. It's true that I do need to get my own place eventually, but I really don't want to live alone for 2 weeks out of 3, and that will be a huge compromise for me. I am an only child and I live with my family now. I hate not being around my family, and living in an empty house (but I couldn't live with a roommate either). I had my own place for about a year in the past, where he'd stay with me 1 week out of 3, and I just hated living alone for the remaining two.

 

How do you want me to "meet him in the middle" exactly? There's no way I can travel with him and live in the hotel, I don't have that many vacation days. And there is absolutely nothing I can do about the fact that he can't spare a couple of hours in his busy day to have a conversation with me. I'm always available to him via phone or email.

[Rollercoasterr]

I think that nothing will make you happy in this situation. You seem to be stuck on sitting at home, blaming him for your unhappiness. Sure, him being away has a lot to do with it, but remember, YOU CHOSE HIM. You could have walked away 4 years ago, but you didn't. You've been with him this whole time, and 2 years of it LD. What did you think would happen? Did you think you could play the cool, supportive girlfriend and then one day do a 180 and start blaming him for everything and giving HIM ultimatums? Really? You've had your 2 years worth of chances to have this talk with him. And now, in the midst of this awful economy you're wanting him to quit his job and find a new one at home. As if they're that easy to find! Good jobs don't grow on trees, honey. I don't know if you got that particular memo.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying your situation isn't hard, it is. I'm saying that you're being a little immature and selfish when it comes to your expectations. If you didn't want the LDR you should have left him a long time ago. Time to fish or cut bait.

[infiniteQuest]

I think that nothing will make you happy in this situation. You seem to be stuck on sitting at home, blaming him for your unhappiness. Sure, him being away has a lot to do with it, but remember, YOU CHOSE HIM. You could have walked away 4 years ago, but you didn't. You've been with him this whole time, and 2 years of it LD. What did you think would happen? Did you think you could play the cool, supportive girlfriend and then one day do a 180 and start blaming him for everything and giving HIM ultimatums? Really? You've had your 2 years worth of chances to have this talk with him. And now, in the midst of this awful economy you're wanting him to quit his job and find a new one at home. As if they're that easy to find! Good jobs don't grow on trees, honey. I don't know if you got that particular memo.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying your situation isn't hard, it is. I'm saying that you're being a little immature and selfish when it comes to your expectations. If you didn't want the LDR you should have left him a long time ago. Time to fish or cut bait.

 

Yes I chose the LDR because, as many people in this forum, I find that my SO was so worth it. But I didn't choose to be this way for 4 years. 2 years ago when he found his current job, I believe my exact words were "you have one year to find a new one". You're obviously unaware of this, but we've been having this talk for a long time already.

 

Life isn't as black and white as asking yourself "do I want an LDR or not?". There are plenty of other variables to the equation.

[shame]

I'm not going to lie. There were times when he was absent, but it wasn't all the time. I had a bad choice of words. I mean, it's kind of hard to be a part of the family when you are shipped off to Hong Kong, Kuala Lumpur, Bombay or wherever and you're working twelve hours a day. Add the time-differences and you're lucky to be able to call your family once a week. What about when everything at work goes badly and you have to work so late you won't see your kids before they go to sleep? The only comfort you get is that at least you managed to call home and let everyone know you'd be late.

 

I'm sure both of them struggled. But still, year after year they had it so good that they sticked together. I don't personally believe that any marriage can go through such a long time in such circumstances if the relationship doesn't have a good, valid base. I don't believe that anyone could pull off almost 30 years of marriage in these circumstance just because it's something you have to do, especially if you have three girls growing up and adding more stress to the situation.

 

But every family has its struggles. In my opinion, my parents did handle the situation good and when my dad was there, he really was. It would have been so easy for him to not agree to do all those family trips but most of the time he was the one to suggest them because he knew that he has to make up for the time he was away and he really did try his best under the circumstances.

 

Family trips are easy, they are happy times but it doesn't take away the fact they're important for any family. I might have given the wrong impression: we were not active all the time, but still a lot. We had a "normal" familylife as well. You know, playing in the garden and have dad watch over us when gardening, going ice-skating and have dad pick us up when we fell down, getting bed-time stories read by dad with the greatest princess voice ever. It was a balanced life. When there was little, we got much afterwords. When everything was smooth, he was an active, permanent part of our eveyday lives.

 

I'm not going to tell you that their marriage has been perfect and that everyone should aim to have one exactly like that. But their marriage has been good and our familylife has been good on the most parts despite the difficulties. I started telling about it just because it is similar to your situation and I thought it might help with trying to figure out what you want to do.

 

I get where you're coming from. It really looks like that you have been put into second place just because it's easier and I understand why it frustrates you. I was a little struck by your phrase "true relationship" and I guess you feel like you aren't in one at the moment, not in the kind that you wish for yourself. I hope you figure out if it's worth it or not. After all, we all get to choose how we want to live our lives, how it's best for us. I know it's not easy walking out of a 4-year relationship; it really isn't something you can just throw over your shoulder, but the fact is, you have to be able to be happy. Everybody deserves that.

[Rollercoasterr]

But again, love isn't about logic and ultimatums. It's about compromise and understanding. The sooner you figure that little bit out, the better off you'll be.

 

And by the way, that house doesn't count as a compromise. If anything, it serves as a reason to tie him down to where you are.

[TMichaels]

InfiniteQuest,

 

I've been following your posts and your story and haven't responded until now as I have to admit I think Rollercoaster's comment about your decision to buy a house wasn't really a compromise, but another "test" if you will to see if your b/f will spend more time with you.

 

Just curious, but did the two of you talk about your idea to move out of your parents' place and purchase a house of your own? Was there any discussion of this being a "joint investment" -- either monetarily or in your relationship as a whole?

 

Or, was this just something you decided on your own? Have you even told him about it? What was his reaction?

 

I dunno, InfiniteQuest, you say this guy is worth the "investment" you have made in the relationship for the past four years, yet in reading some of your previous posts, that road hasn't exactly been paved with roses.

 

You've said in the past that every Christmas you break up or are on the verge of breaking up due to unresolved family issues he has around the holidays.

 

You've admitted you get angry and have a hard time keeping your temper under control with him, and when others have suggested that perhaps this is because there's an underlying issue of frustration, disappointment or hurt that causes you to lash out and act this way, you have pooh-poohed that idea and said you just have a short fuse.

 

You've said you've given him an ultimatum on more than one occasion with the intent to end things, but you haven't, and that hasn't worked in terms of changing his behavior.

 

Now, even though you admit you prefer staying with your family, don't like living alone or with a roommate, you've committed to buy a house so ostensibly the two of you can spend more time together.

 

TBH, InfiniteQuest, how many times/ways are you going to try and "engineer" this relationship in an attempt to get this guy to act the way you think he should?

 

No doubt about it, all relationships are hard. They take an infinite amount of patience, understanding, compromise, communication AND a willingness ON THE PART OF BOTH PARTIES to make it work.

 

For whatever reason, no matter how great you may think this guy is, from what you've shared, he's not meeting your needs nor is he *your idea* of the perfect partner. So why are you so intent on hammering him into a mold he clearly doesn't want to or is not capable of fitting?

 

If you haven't already purchased a house, I strongly encourage you not to do so. Owning a home is a big responsibility and usually is the largest purchase/investment most people make in a lifetime. From the sounds of it, you're not the kind of person who will welcome handling the responsibilities of home-ownership on your own -- and I sincerely doubt that all of a sudden your b/f is going to develop a case of "house pride" and become the second Bob Vila.

 

So then where will you be? Sitting alone in a house that needs care and maintenance while your b/f continues to work hard and pursue a career -- fuming all the while that *you* have made a tremendous "investment" in your relationship that he once again, doesn't appreciate.

 

As others have suggested, InfiniteQuest, it's time to fish or cut bait.

 

Quite frankly, if I were you, I would take a break from this relationship and see what other options are out there -- for both of you. It's not right for you to continue to wish things were different and that this guy will change, and it's not right for him to continue a relationship that is more of convenience and habit than commitment.

 

Sorry if this is not what you want to hear, but you can't have it both ways -- and no amount of "configuring" things on your part is going to change him. But, it will make you more resentful and unhappy, if you continue to think that "one day* you'll hit upon the right "magic formula" that will change his ways.

 

All the best,

TMichaels

Edited October 13, 2009 by TMichaels

[infiniteQuest]

TMichaels,

What a powerful post. I am really impressed by the insight you provided, especially considering that I've only posted a handful of times. It seems like you've been reading my emotions about this relationship with quite an accuracy.

 

You hit the nail on the head when you said that I am trying to engineer this relationship. I am a problem-solver (and I also happen to be an engineer), so when faced with a challenge, I get a thrill of some sorts in trying to solve it. While it is true that I have a bad temper (and my bf isn't the only one complaining about it, so do my parents and friends, but I've improved that a lot recently), something doesn't feel quite right and it's especially apparent when he's away. I've faced many disappointments with him, and heard so many "I'm sorry"'s that these words don't mean anything to me anymore.

 

I guess there is a part of me that is trying to change him. Trying to make him more affectionate, make him spend more time with me, make him put me above everything else in his life for maybe just one month. But he is also enabling this by giving me the false hope that he actually has the intention of doing that. Promising me that he will do these things, promising me that he will find a new job, that only if his boss gave him a break he'd be more available if only we had a place together. We go through ups and downs because as soon as I see him in person my heart just fills with joy and he makes me believe that everything's going to be alright. I told him that he was a workaholic and that he puts his job above everything else. He denies this and tells me that it's only for a short time, that he wants to have a family and children and that these things are very important to him.

 

Whenever I tell him that I am ready to break up, he doesn't want to let me go, swears up and down that he just needs a chance. He also said that he will be looking for a new job very soon, that he himself cannot take this crazy schedule anymore. We've been on two short weekend trips lately after I threatened with the breakup, and it was great that he made time for these. But for some reason I still feel that this was only a band-aid over a situation that needs much more than that.

 

He even asked me if I would feel better if we rented a place together, which I declined and said that I'd rather buy instead. So yes, we've discussed the house issue a lot. It comes down to the fact that I have some money saved up and I need to do something with it. It's not enough to buy a house cash but it's too much to just let it sit in the bank and be devaluated due to inflation. So essentially it's also an investment for me (yes some people would argue that this is a foolish statement but the city I live in seems to go against all other real-estate patterns seen elsewhere). Still it's a major commitment from my end since he said he isn't ready to participate in it financially or be tied up in such a contract with me. That means that he will also not be participating in anything house-related I presume (he did say that he will do the groceries and help with cooking, but his word isn't worth much lately, I've heard too many excuses). There is also a slight chance that I might not be thinking all that clearly because I'm also desperately trying to save our relationship when thinking about the house.

 

In the end what freaks me out is that my head is clouded because I see his flaws and I also see mine, and it seems that as long as I have flaws too, I cannot justify leaving because I am left wondering "is it me who screwed up? Who am I to judge his shortcomings and scorn him over the fact that he is confused about his life right now? Shouldn't I be supportive of him instead?". I am not trying to make excuses for him when I talk about his positive side, nor am I putting myself down when I describe my own shortcomings such as the bad temper. But the truth is that there is always a positive and a negative side to any truth. When I come to LS it's because I need advice over something I am upset about, and I describe the bad aspects of the situation. I don't find myself doing that when everything is going well, so it's hard to clearly depict the pros and cons of the relationship as a whole. It's even harder because I am only on one end describing this relationship, where I obviously am biased because over 4 years I have embraced his flaws and learned to love them.

 

As it stands now, I had a talk with him and simply asked him to take a step back, look at his priorities, and be honest with himself about why he wasn't following though with most of the things he promised me. Is it because he's really in a tight spot right now because of the stress in his life, or is it that he just wants something different than I do and is afraid to admit it? Well it's been 3 days and I'm still waiting for an answer...

 

I am infinitely grateful to you for listening

 

IQ

[TMichaels]

He even asked me if I would feel better if we rented a place together, which I declined and said that I'd rather buy instead. So yes, we've discussed the house issue a lot. It comes down to the fact that I have some money saved up and I need to do something with it. It's not enough to buy a house cash but it's too much to just let it sit in the bank and be devaluated due to inflation. So essentially it's also an investment for me (yes some people would argue that this is a foolish statement but the city I live in seems to go against all other real-estate patterns seen elsewhere). Still it's a major commitment from my end since he said he isn't ready to participate in it financially or be tied up in such a contract with me. That means that he will also not be participating in anything house-related I presume (he did say that he will do the groceries and help with cooking, but his word isn't worth much lately, I've heard too many excuses). There is also a slight chance that I might not be thinking all that clearly because I'm also desperately trying to save our relationship when thinking about the house.

 

infiniteQuest, no matter what others may tell you or like to believe, realize that buying a house is a *lifestyle decision* not an investment. Even if the real estate market seems strong in your area, a house is only worth what someone else will pay for it and that selling price may or may not ever be what you purchased it for and the cost all the repairs, improvements, property taxes and interest you also will inevitably put in.

 

Don't believe me? Ask one of the millions of people in the U.S. in the moment who owe more on their homes than they are worth. They *never* thought they'd be in that position -- afterall, real estate *always* appreciates, does it not? Nope. Not always. Like any investment, there are no guarantees.

 

If you're truly concerned about your savings sitting idle and losing value, there's plenty of other options that will yield satisfactory returns without tieing you and your money up in an asset that's biggest appeal at the moment is that you think it will be a solution to your relationship woes. It's never a good idea to make a business decision on emotion -- and in this case, that certainly applies.

 

As it stands now, I had a talk with him and simply asked him to take a step back, look at his priorities, and be honest with himself about why he wasn't following though with most of the things he promised me. Is it because he's really in a tight spot right now because of the stress in his life, or is it that he just wants something different than I do and is afraid to admit it? Well it's been 3 days and I'm still waiting for an answer...

 

I have a feeling you're going to be waiting for longer than that. Maybe it seems like a pretty simple thing to you for him to decide which way he wants to go with his life, but we're talking about a major life decision here, and you've backed him into a corner again where I think he feels like he has few options and is just trying to do his best.

 

As I said before, I think you really need to step back and quit trying to engineer this relationship so it fits your own specifications. He is who he is, and so are you. That either is "good enough" or it's not.

 

Having said that, I would also caution you for "settling" for less than you want in life which rarely works in the long run. Instead of continuing to isssue ultimatums and wait for answers that may be long in coming, put your "problem solving skills" to work in other ways and see what other options may be out there for you whether that be financially, personally or professionally and get on with your life.

 

If he chooses to part of it in a way that is satisfactory to you, then great. If not, quit trying to shove a round peg into a square hole. Simple as that.

 

I am infinitely grateful to you for listening

 

No problem, infiniteQuest. You're welcome. Hope this helps.

 

All the best,

TMichaels

Edited October 14, 2009 by TMichaels