WS......SEX with OW/OM? Sex in M, can it get better?

[jennie-jennie]

Wow, your children are adults, and you still put them before your own happiness. My children are 14, 16 and 24. I don't see their happiness in any way being in conflict with mine. (We have had this discussion in a heated thread earlier on LS. ) Neither do I see it as selfish to listen to the feelings of my heart. To me it is being true to my inner self, living in consistence with my inner feelings.

[NoIDidn't]

I understand that. I don't know your situation. My children are adults, by the way -- 19 and 25. They have no idea there has ever been any unhappiness in our marriage as I don't discuss the lack of passion with them or the sex issues and outwardly we seem very happy and get along in general. They love us. They love their parents together.

 

I think it's important -- for me -- not to put my future happiness out there as what's most important to me. I think it's important to be happy, but I don't accept seeking it via selfishness is the way to find true happiness. Plus, they come first for me. Now, when I had the affair I wasn't putting them first. I'm trying to find that part of me that understands how important it is not to put my selfish desires in front of God, my husband and them.

 

I think I've been given all I need in life to be happy and the fault with utilizing it lies in me. I am very blessed.

 

Your attitude reflects mature reasoning that I can really appreciate. I think everyone goes through the feelings of wanting their needs to be put first all the time, but we eventually get back to the big picture - that its not all or only about us.

 

I struggle with this balance too. I came to the conclusion that there are many ways to put myself first occasionally that doesn't upend everyone else's lives in the process. It only sounds self-sacrificing, but its really not.

[Samantha0905]

Wow, your children are adults, and you still put them before your own happiness. My children are 14, 16 and 24. I don't see their happiness in any way being in conflict with mine. (We have had this discussion in a heated thread earlier on LS. ) Neither do I see it as selfish to listen to the feelings of my heart. To me it is being true to my inner self, living in consistence with my inner feelings.

 

We are very close and they are very close to us. Again, I don't mean you aren't and I feel a need to say that repeatedly, apparently. I'm just responding from my place in life. I've actually thought about it a lot as my son has repeatedly asked me, "Mom, when are you moving back home?" He's at NYU. And my daughter is showing up almost every weekend (she lives in another town and is married) because she knows I come home when she's there. We go to football games together this time of year -- college. Anyway, she loves me a lot. And, as I said, they love "us."

 

Just as an aside, she is like my husband and not as communicative. Neither of them have asked me "why" I moved out. My son has. Interesting.

 

I'm glad you have found some happiness and have made the decisions that feel right to you. It's difficult to live in consistence with my inner feelings when they've been so conflicted. I hate to think of life without my ex-AP and I hate to think of life without my spouse/our history/our family. I know without a doubt I'm a Christian, so I'm going to go with that to make my decisions and hope my faith brings me through all of this.

[boldjack]

OP, I feel that Jennie has some really strong points, but to me it's all about honesty. I am friends with a woman , who was in a basically sexless marriage. She and her H had both had affairs, but they had small children. They made the decision to stay married, and keep the family together, until the youngest was out of HS. They solved the sexual problem by going on "business", trips". They raised their children, then went their separate ways, but they were honest with each other. IMO, they made a very mature and enlightened choice.

[Samantha0905]

Your attitude reflects mature reasoning that I can really appreciate. I think everyone goes through the feelings of wanting their needs to be put first all the time, but we eventually get back to the big picture - that its not all or only about us.

 

I struggle with this balance too. I came to the conclusion that there are many ways to put myself first occasionally that doesn't upend everyone else's lives in the process. It only sounds self-sacrificing, but its really not.

 

Yes, it is a struggle. I think there's some resentment there perhaps from being a stay at home mom and always feeling I've put their needs before mine. Again -- just more whining on my part about a true blessing in life. Perhaps I need some cognitive therapy. LOL It's just a faulty way of processing I think, but I suppose we all should be able to vent at times.

 

And I agree -- it does come off as self-sacrificing -- but truly is not. I think I'm making big problems out of things which are actually life's blessings. Plus, and here I go sounding like a feminist -- -- I think women put themselves on the back burner a lot -- their thoughts, feelings, needs, etc. -- and then end up with built up resentment. Perhaps, if I had asserted myself more in life I wouldn't have ended up living in an apartment for six months instead of home where I need to be. My husband would probably laugh at that remark as I'm no shrinking violet, but I think I have squelched a lot of myself in my marriage for some reason. I don't know why I have conformed so much.

 

I know where the problems originated. When we first married, he was very conservative Southern Baptist as were his parents. I would even get talked to about little things like having a glass of wine in a restaurant or not feeling a need to get up EVERY Sunday to go to church. We had a shorter separation at 10 years of marriage -- six weeks -- and counseling and we worked our way through that. He actually did loosen up -- a lot. I feel like I've corrupted him now. J/K He doesn't think a thing about he or me having an alcoholic beverage and we attend church sporadically at best.

 

My point is, however, he made a concerted effort to change and I don't know why I'm still mired down with the effects of past issues and still feel squelched. He wants me to get out and do things. He likes for me to be with my friends. He encourages me to go to school, work or do whatever I want to do in life. I'm in a rut for some reason.

 

I try to analyze it. For all I know, it may just be residual effects from becoming an empty nester last year and perimenopause stuff. Who knows? I'm just tired of feeling frustrated and looking for happiness. I think it's right here and I'm just blind to it.

[Samantha0905]

OP, I feel that Jennie has some really strong points, but to me it's all about honesty. I am friends with a woman , who was in a basically sexless marriage. She and her H had both had affairs, but they had small children. They made the decision to stay married, and keep the family together, until the youngest was out of HS. They solved the sexual problem by going on "business", trips". They raised their children, then went their separate ways, but they were honest with each other. IMO, they made a very mature and enlightened choice.

 

Well, I can appreciate that but we don't have a sexless marriage. I just lack passion for him, but he seems to have it or -- probably -- have had it -- by this point. I'm sure moving out hasn't made him feel more passionate for me.

[Samantha0905]

Sorry Jack. I just realized you addressed "OP" in that post and then again realized I've TJ'd again! I need to start my own issues thread.

 

Spoiled, forgive me -- I thought our issues seemed very similar -- if I'm babbling too much in your thread, please just tell me. I've gained a lot from things you've posted.

[boldjack]

I think that in your case Sam, divorce would be a better option, because you don't seem to have any open communication, between you and your H. He thinks that the marriage is one thing , you KNOW that it is another. Passion comes from knowing you partner and being aware of his/her needs. This is another reason I counsel disclosure, it puts both of you on the same page , to make the decisions necessary for both of you, and the kids, in a mature and adult manner. Sorry for the thread-jack, Spoiled, just answering a question.

[Spoiled]

In my reasoning, it isn't just about me. It's about my daughter and her future grandchildren. It's about my son. It's about my own siblings who come over every year for Thanksgiving and who have known us as a couple since we were adolescents. It's about my husband and his future happiness. It's about his parents and siblings. It changes life dynamics for so many people besides me.

Affairs are selfish and deceitful and I don't think there's any argument around it.

 

Also, when I say there is no passion I don't mean there is no love or no passion about things besides sex. I met my husband when I was 14 and there is a lot of history and a lot of love there. He is the person who I know without a doubt would be by my side if I were to get cancer or something. He will be there for me through good times and bad. If he were to get sick or anything, I know I would want to be by his side and not want someone else to be there. We do things together -- go to football games, movies, golf, etc. He sends me flowers. He holds the doors for me. He's a good father. Obviously, not listing in order of importance here.

 

Oh -- and I didn't mean the marriage was sexless. We have sex every Saturday night on "date night" at about 11:00 when I'm at the house. (I've been in an apartment since June.) Yes, it's that predictable. In fairness to him, I initiated with my ex-AP. I was more spontaneous with him. The issue is in doing this with my husband as I just don't have that fire for him. I've read repeatedly it's comparing apples and oranges, but I don't remember ever feeling that passion about actual intercourse with my husband. I loved kissing him in high school and do remember us getting all hot and bothered then. This was when I was 14, 15 and 16 years old. It was his idea to wait until we married (when I was 21) to have sex and once it happened, it just wasn't that great to me. I went forever thinking I didn't like sex, but eventually figured out that really wasn't the problem. My ex-AP confirmed that.

 

Exactly how I feel.

[Spoiled]

Spoiled, I just want to send you my support. Big hugs

 

Thank you, I need it.

[Samantha0905]

I think that in your case Sam, divorce would be a better option, because you don't seem to have any open communication, between you and your H. He thinks that the marriage is one thing , you KNOW that it is another. Passion comes from knowing you partner and being aware of his/her needs. This is another reason I counsel disclosure, it puts both of you on the same page , to make the decisions necessary for both of you, and the kids, in a mature and adult manner. Sorry for the thread-jack, Spoiled, just answering a question.

 

Divorce is an answer, but the wrong answer in my opinion. We have too many positives, but yes, I agree communication is lacking. I think it can be improved.

[Samantha0905]

Exactly how I feel.

 

Yes, I know. When you posted this thread, I immediately thought, "That's me!"

 

In my heart, I know these are things that can be remedied. As Jack pointed out, open communication is not there. I said lacking above, but it's practically non-existent. We seem to communicate on a surface level. I feel this lack of intimacy is the root of the lack of passion.

 

Now, if we can only figure out how to develop the intimacy in our relationships with our spouses.......

[Spoiled]

Yes, I know. When you posted this thread, I immediately thought, "That's me!"

 

In my heart, I know these are things that can be remedied. As Jack pointed out, open communication is not there. I said lacking above, but it's practically non-existent. We seem to communicate on a surface level. I feel this lack of intimacy is the root of the lack of passion.

 

Now, if we can only figure out how to develop the intimacy in our relationships with our spouses.......

 

I, too, feel like I have always placed everyone ahead of myself. Working in health care requires much compassion and patience. Dealing with a H who travels with work and both of my children are under the age of 5.

 

Like you, my M is not sexless and my H and I get along extremely well. We make an awesome team and others say that to us consistently. Makes me feel like a total a$$. But the passion is not there. Yes there was some initially but I lost that several years ago.

 

JJ mentioned not staying in a passionless R, but I never experienced it before to know it even could exist.

[wheelwright]

Now, if we can only figure out how to develop the intimacy in our relationships with our spouses.......

 

Doesn't this deserve its own thread?

[Spoiled]

Okay, Samantha, I finished reading your post. I respect your decision. I have however myself never accepted being in a relationship where I did not feel passion for my partner. That is a key ingredient of a relationship to me. And in my relationship with my exSO, the passion I held for him did not go away for the 25 years we spent together.

 

If I had only known the "passion" I could feel for someone prior to M. Met my H after graduating college and knew many single woman who were older than me and complaining about the dating scene. Looking back, I honestly feel like because my H had so many other qualities, I did not think attraction was so important. And did not want to miss the opportunity of "what could be" in regards to getting married.

[Samantha0905]

I, too, feel like I have always placed everyone ahead of myself. Working in health care requires much compassion and patience. Dealing with a H who travels with work and both of my children are under the age of 5.

 

Like you, my M is not sexless and my H and I get along extremely well. We make an awesome team and others say that to us consistently. Makes me feel like a total a$$. But the passion is not there. Yes there was some initially but I lost that several years ago.

 

JJ mentioned not staying in a passionless R, but I never experienced it before to know it even could exist.

 

Me either. We met so young. I really feel there is something to some of the issues existing because we initially met as young adolescents -- not adults. We've never had that adult passionate relationship. I realize that wanes somewhat over time anyway, but it seems it would be there somewhat.

 

I can't remember, but your husband knows right? About the affair? Did you tell him? I'm assuming he knows because bj extends you empathy, berates me and suggests divorce. Obviously, the open disclosure thing is of great importance to bj, and I can respect the opinion and it's good to hear varying opinions. He's actually made me contemplate more the pros and cons of telling.

 

It makes me feel like a total a$$ also. Not worthy.

 

People tell me all the time they wish they had a relationship like mine. Outwardly, all seems well and we actually do love each other very much in many ways.

 

It's hard to explain, but I'm happy I've found someone who can relate somewhat to what I'm saying.

[boldjack]

Spoiled and Samantha, do you see what you are doing? One-hand clapping. There are TWO people in each of your marriages, and you aren't allowing your spouses to have any part in making decisions that effect both of you. How can you possibly have a passionate relationship with your SO, when both of your partners are completely in the dark about your true feelings? If you can't have open honest communication with your SO'S, then you aren't in a marriage, you're in a business arrangement. NOBODY can solve the problems between two people, when one of them is completely ignorant of the situation. I'm really sorry for your spouses, because neither of you is prepared to be honest. You can't have honest passion , without honesty. The main reason that you had passion with your AP'S was because you were honest about it, with them..

[Samantha0905]

Spoiled and Samantha, do you see what you are doing? One-hand clapping. There are TWO people in each of your marriages, and you aren't allowing your spouses to have any part in making decisions that effect both of you. How can you possibly have a passionate relationship with your SO, when both of your partners are completely in the dark about your true feelings? If you can't have open honest communication with your SO'S, then you aren't in a marriage, you're in a business arrangement. NOBODY can solve the problems between two people, when one of them is completely ignorant of the situation. I'm really sorry for your spouses, because neither of you is prepared to be honest. You can't have honest passion , without honesty. The main reason that you had passion with your AP'S was because you were honest about it, with them..

 

I don't even feel like I've been 100% honest with my affair partner, so that reasoning doesn't work for me.

 

I also don't want to say to my husband, "I feel no sexual passion towards you." Ouch! I want to develop it with him without scarring him for life and I think more honesty would be helpful. I do not, however, believe telling him of the affair or telling him I have no sexual passion for him would be constructive. I think it would be selfish of me to do so and leave a terrible and permanent scar on his heart and psyche. Do you think a couple is ever totally 100% honest about everything they feel with each other? I doubt it and there are parts of ourselves we don't need to share with others at times.

 

There are advocates of not telling also. It's a personal decision.

[Untouchable_Fire]

I don't even feel like I've been 100% honest with my affair partner, so that reasoning doesn't work for me.

I also don't want to say to my husband, "I feel no sexual passion towards you." Ouch! I want to develop it with him without scarring him for life and I think more honesty would be helpful. I do not, however, believe telling him of the affair or telling him I have no sexual passion for him would be constructive. I think it would be selfish of me to do so and leave a terrible and permanent scar on his heart and psyche. Do you think a couple is ever totally 100% honest about everything they feel with each other? I doubt it and there are parts of ourselves we don't need to share with others at times.

There are advocates of not telling also. It's a personal decision.

 

Then your not being honest with anyone... which is a sucky feeling.

 

You should pay attention to what BoldJack is saying. When you hold back a part of yourself, it reduces YOUR feeling of intimacy. Your H may even feel like he knows you well.

 

What creates passion for you?

[boldjack]

Yes SAm but these advocates of non-disclosure are for the most part, failing to reconnect, why ? Because they aren't being honest. Your excuse about the "permanent scars", is just that, an excuse. You don't know how your husband will react, because you don't know your husband. If you truly knew him, you would not have disrespected him with another man.

[Samantha0905]

Yes SAm but these advocates of non-disclosure are for the most part, failing to reconnect, why ? Because they aren't being honest. Your excuse about the "permanent scars", is just that, an excuse. You don't know how your husband will react, because you don't know your husband. If you truly knew him, you would not have disrespected him with another man.

 

And he does not know me -- obviously. It's not an excuse. You like that word. It's my opinion that telling him about an affair I no longer am having will only serve to hurt him, our marriage -- and yes, in some ways I suppose I am covering my ass. You mentioned that at another time and I contemplated it.

 

I still feel like I've hijacked this thread, so I'm going to put something I found online on the other thread I've started about my issues.

[HisSweetThing]

And he does not know me -- obviously. It's not an excuse. You like that word. It's my opinion that telling him about an affair I no longer am having will only serve to hurt him, our marriage -- and yes, in some ways I suppose I am covering my ass. You mentioned that at another time and I contemplated it.

 

I still feel like I've hijacked this thread, so I'm going to put something I found online on the other thread I've started about my issues.

 

I don't think you absolutely need to tell him about the affair, but I think if you have any hopes of improving your marriage, you do need to find a way to discuss the lack of passion in your relationship. After recently discovering what passion really is, I don't know how anyone could choose to live without it. Isn't passion what life is supposed to be about? I feel "alive" for the first time in I-don't-know-how long. I have had passion in other areas of my life - I was passionate about raising my kids; I'm passionate about fitness - but I never had it in my marriage. That's why I'm in the process of divorce. Since I never had it, I am under no delusions that I can create it. I think it's a special thing that is either there or not.

[Spoiled]

Me either. We met so young. I really feel there is something to some of the issues existing because we initially met as young adolescents -- not adults. We've never had that adult passionate relationship. I realize that wanes somewhat over time anyway, but it seems it would be there somewhat.

I can't remember, but your husband knows right? About the affair? Did you tell him? I'm assuming he knows because bj extends you empathy, berates me and suggests divorce. Obviously, the open disclosure thing is of great importance to bj, and I can respect the opinion and it's good to hear varying opinions. He's actually made me contemplate more the pros and cons of telling.

 

It makes me feel like a total a$$ also. Not worthy.

 

People tell me all the time they wish they had a relationship like mine. Outwardly, all seems well and we actually do love each other very much in many ways.

 

It's hard to explain, but I'm happy I've found someone who can relate somewhat to what I'm saying.

 

Yes, my H is aware. My xAP's W found out about our R and I told him the entire truth. It was fully discovered, there was not a choice for me not to tell him.

[Spoiled]

Spoiled and Samantha, do you see what you are doing? One-hand clapping. There are TWO people in each of your marriages, and you aren't allowing your spouses to have any part in making decisions that effect both of you. How can you possibly have a passionate relationship with your SO, when both of your partners are completely in the dark about your true feelings? If you can't have open honest communication with your SO'S, then you aren't in a marriage, you're in a business arrangement. NOBODY can solve the problems between two people, when one of them is completely ignorant of the situation. I'm really sorry for your spouses, because neither of you is prepared to be honest. You can't have honest passion , without honesty. The main reason that you had passion with your AP'S was because you were honest about it, with them..

 

I have spoken with my H regarding my feelings. He is fully aware about the excitement and passion that I desire within our M. Even before the A, it was after d-day that he began to try. We have discussed it daily for the past few days and we are both making efforts to create the passion.

 

Because the intimacy we once shared was lost a few years ago, I am concerned whether or not I can achieve the ultimate goal. I long for anyone who has experienced the lack of intimacy for years and regained it. I ended the A, I am maintaining NC, being honest, and in IC and MC. Right now, my greatest hindrance is the emotions I continue to have for my xAP. Even when those emotions subside, I will not stay if the attraction and intimacy is not better. I am looking for all suggestions because I want to put forth every effort in attempt to solve my issues.

[jennie-jennie]

Spoiled, I hope you will keep us updated on your progress. I too am truly interested in if it is possible to wake that passion and intimacy in a marriage/relationship.