Stroon Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 i think one of the problems here is the stereotyping that all men want more sex than women, which is simply not true. I fail to see how people can be generalised in such a way as they tend to be by some people on this forum. Each couple is different. I myself was in a relationship years ago where my partner was not interested in sex. There was nothing 'wrong' with him. He was not an alchoholic, not a drug taker. he was happy in his work, and a well adjusted person. he simply did not have a high sex drive. Some people just dont. there doesnt always have to be an underlying psychological reason why. He even went to the doctors (on my request) to have hormone level checks (testosterone etc) and they were all normal. Its not always one or the other persons fault, its just about people, and how different we all are. I think its quite damaging that we're generally made to feel that unless we fit into the 'norm' that we all need therapy. Especially considering the 'norm' doesnt actually exist and most of it is implied by the media to get us to purchase certain items to make our lives more 'normal' tsk. Link to post Share on other sites
Fallen Angel Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Everyone makes mistakes in relationships (two-way street as I recall). Point is I was having fun with as I said was an unscientific poll..... I will also drag out the hypothesis and conclusion to say that my friends who are divorced and in I imagine were in "bad relationships", and now getting it 10-12/mth are better in relationships then us who have maintained our relationships.... How about this for a theory... They are in a better place because they were willing to MAKE A CHANGE, rather than sit back doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result. I am not saying that leaving your marriage/LTR is the answer, but you have to change the situation if you want to make it work. If what you are doing now is not getting you the result you desire ( more sex ), then change your behaviour in an attempt to change the result. Link to post Share on other sites
Lizzie60 Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 As for Lizzie, I really hope there are few women who think like you and have such a jaded view about monogamous, long-term relationships..... Welll then.. sorry to disappoint you.. but this seems to be what most women in long-term M feel... sexually bored.. or zero libido... take your pick.. but whenever they get into a PA or in a new relationship.. it's alllll sexually exciting again.. for a while.. btdt.. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Toodamnpragmatic Posted October 13, 2009 Author Share Posted October 13, 2009 As for Lizzie, I really hope there are few women who think like you and have such a jaded view about monogamous, long-term relationships..... Welll then.. sorry to disappoint you.. but this seems to be what most women in long-term M feel... sexually bored.. or zero libido... take your pick.. but whenever they get into a PA or in a new relationship.. it's alllll sexually exciting again.. for a while.. btdt.. We know Lizzie, we know.... Same story from you over and over. I know you are happy and kudos to you. I just hope not all males and females are like that...... I never realized how lucky I am with my spouse until I started reading LS..... Nothing like you and many females here and I am so happy for that..... Link to post Share on other sites
hopeful1980 Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 As a woman, I would say the times i did feel a serious decrease in sex drive, it was due mainly to my feeling a lack of emotional connection. I can't speak for all women, not even for most women, only for myself. But for me, there is a HUGE link in my brain to the NON SEXUAL affections of my partner, to my SEXUAL desire for him. When he is kind, loving, gentle in attitude and tone, when he spends the time to really listen to how my day was and shows empathy for my emotional state, when he holds my hand, strokes my hair, kisses me on the forehead, those things all deepen my love for him, and therefor strengthen my sexual desire for him. For me, when I am feeling ignored, when I am feeling "less than", I don't feel particularly "sexy". *shrug* It isn't about filling our every whim, it is just about taking the time to show us in a nonsexual way, that we are your most important treasure. That is what makes me want to make love to my man anyway. Over, and Over and Over... I agree with you 100%. Sex for me has more to do with the nonsexual acts that lead up to it. If those aren't there, there is nothing my H can do to my body that will turn me on. Sex starts in my mind. Link to post Share on other sites
alphamale Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Women are the losers in this formula each and every time, because it's the men who call the shots when it comes to sex in a relationship. that is such baloney. it takes two to have consentual sex. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Toodamnpragmatic Posted October 13, 2009 Author Share Posted October 13, 2009 I agree with you 100%. Sex for me has more to do with the nonsexual acts that lead up to it. If those aren't there, there is nothing my H can do to my body that will turn me on. Sex starts in my mind. Start a new post if you want to list what men do wrong and don't have sex..... We know it will go for 50 pages.... Again this is not the point of the post. For a minute pretend that all my friends are decent people and as said all are decent looking, fairly successful (i.e. 6 figure salaries+), healthy, not overweight, not alcolohics, drug addicts, womanizers or cheaters..... I state this only so that some issues can not be used as a reason to not have sex. It is fascinating, funny and somewhat indicative the responses to the sex question asked. Those divorced with younger GF's have sex 5-12X's as much..... Link to post Share on other sites
Lizzie60 Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 We know Lizzie, we know.... Same story from you over and over. I know you are happy and kudos to you. I just hope not all males and females are like that...... I never realized how lucky I am with my spouse until I started reading LS..... Nothing like you and many females here and I am so happy for that..... Oooh... I thought you were one of the married couples who rarely had sex.. Link to post Share on other sites
hopeful1980 Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Start a new post if you want to list what men do wrong and don't have sex..... We know it will go for 50 pages.... Again this is not the point of the post. For a minute pretend that all my friends are decent people and as said all are decent looking, fairly successful (i.e. 6 figure salaries+), healthy, not overweight, not alcolohics, drug addicts, womanizers or cheaters..... I state this only so that some issues can not be used as a reason to not have sex. It is fascinating, funny and somewhat indicative the responses to the sex question asked. Those divorced with younger GF's have sex 5-12X's as much..... They can still be decent men and not being doing the right things to turn on their wives. I would assume MOST men are decent men who love their wives, but that doesn't mean they know how to turn them on. And let me tell you something about those younger girlfriends. . . some of them probably have dollar signs in their eyes. A woman will do a lot of things for security and getting with an older man with experience and money is a plus. Of course a younger non-married woman is going to be having sex more than an older married woman with responsibilites and children. That's a no brainer. Link to post Share on other sites
giotto Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 For a minute pretend that all my friends are decent people and as said all are decent looking, fairly successful (i.e. 6 figure salaries+), healthy, not overweight, not alcolohics, drug addicts, womanizers or cheaters..... maybe they are just boring? Sorry, TDP, but I do think it's a relationship issue as well. If your wife is telling you that there's nothing wrong and then she doesn't want to have sex with you, then she is lying to you... maybe it's not just your fault, maybe she's got issues as well, but in a healthy marriage/relationship sex is never a problem... having said that, I don't think it's just the men's fault... it's just that relationships and human beings evolve and change... and people become really boring... Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Lucky Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 For a minute pretend that all my friends are decent people and as said all are decent looking, fairly successful (i.e. 6 figure salaries+), healthy, not overweight, not alcolohics, drug addicts, womanizers or cheaters..... I state this only so that some issues can not be used as a reason to not have sex. It is fascinating, funny and somewhat indicative the responses to the sex question asked. Those divorced with younger GF's have sex 5-12X's as much..... TDP, I'm curious as to what conclusion you draw from your sample group ??? Mr. Lucky Link to post Share on other sites
Author Toodamnpragmatic Posted October 13, 2009 Author Share Posted October 13, 2009 maybe they are just boring? Sorry, TDP, but I do think it's a relationship issue as well. If your wife is telling you that there's nothing wrong and then she doesn't want to have sex with you, then she is lying to you... maybe it's not just your fault, maybe she's got issues as well, but in a healthy marriage/relationship sex is never a problem... having said that, I don't think it's just the men's fault... it's just that relationships and human beings evolve and change... and people become really boring... Giotto, many know your issues and marriage, and we certainly sympathize, but this is the case in I'd say 80%+ of marriages..... Trust me there are very few healthy marriages, if sex is the barometer........ Surprised you of all people Giotto would post this. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Toodamnpragmatic Posted October 13, 2009 Author Share Posted October 13, 2009 (edited) TDP, I'm curious as to what conclusion you draw from your sample group ??? Mr. Lucky Divorce before 50 and sow your oats.... I think unfortunately it is indicative of what is. And trust me, not one of these friends married have a "bad" marriage..... Heck 10-12X's a month would be wonderful, but only so much an old guy can take..... Edited October 13, 2009 by Toodamnpragmatic Link to post Share on other sites
quankanne Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 it takes two to have consentual sex. I agree with you there. I'm also saying that a couple's sex life is often set by what the man dictates. Men *might* say they want an aggressive woman in bed, but few can actually cope with a chick who has a healthy appetite for sex, because they don't think it's "natural." for all the squawking I hear about women being the ones who give sex in a committed relationship the kiss of death, I say "POOH!" Link to post Share on other sites
hopeful1980 Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 it takes two to have consentual sex. I agree with you there. I'm also saying that a couple's sex life is often set by what the man dictates. Men *might* say they want an aggressive woman in bed, but few can actually cope with a chick who has a healthy appetite for sex, because they don't think it's "natural." for all the squawking I hear about women being the ones who give sex in a committed relationship the kiss of death, I say "POOH!" I think the opposite. I think the woman sets the pace of sex in a relationship. It may be the man who intiates more often, but it's the woman who decides whether or not it's going down more often imo. Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Lucky Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Divorce before 50 and sow your oats.... I think unfortunately it is indicative of what is. And trust me, not one of these friends married have a "bad" marriage..... Heck 10-12X's a month would be wonderful, but only so much an old guy can take..... I think that what happens in many long-term relationships is that sex becomes a power struggle. And if I'm a STAHM or perceive myself as the less advantaged person of either sex on any basis (financial, emotional, etc.), then sex becomes one of the things I can control. The decision to do so may not even be a conscious one, hence the mysterious libido fade that strikes many relationships. I'd tell your 4 long-term couples to put their pride aside and undertake MC ... Mr. Lucky Link to post Share on other sites
Lizzie60 Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 I think the opposite. I think the woman sets the pace of sex in a relationship. It may be the man who intiates more often, but it's the woman who decides whether or not it's going down more often imo. I also agree that it's the woman who sets the pace.. Link to post Share on other sites
giotto Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Giotto, many know your issues and marriage, and we certainly sympathize, but this is the case in I'd say 80%+ of marriages..... Trust me there are very few healthy marriages, if sex is the barometer........ Surprised you of all people Giotto would post this. well, I've done lots of soul searching and I've come to this conclusion... sex is not the only barometer, but it's a good indication of how healthy a relationship is... obviously, it depends on people's priorities and people's attititudes towards marriage. As I said, after 20 years together, some development/evolution is to be expected and there are so many factors involved that, maybe, it's easier to be a "generalist" and say it's a relationship issue. I don't think I'll ever get to the bottom of this... I can only tell you that white lies are easier than divorce... P.S. Sorry to disappoint you... Link to post Share on other sites
Author Toodamnpragmatic Posted October 13, 2009 Author Share Posted October 13, 2009 well, I've done lots of soul searching and I've come to this conclusion... sex is not the only barometer, but it's a good indication of how healthy a relationship is... obviously, it depends on people's priorities and people's attititudes towards marriage. As I said, after 20 years together, some development/evolution is to be expected and there are so many factors involved that, maybe, it's easier to be a "generalist" and say it's a relationship issue. I don't think I'll ever get to the bottom of this... I can only tell you that white lies are easier than divorce... P.S. Sorry to disappoint you... I should have the the quantity of sex as a barometer for the health of a marriage........ I'd like to think the quality is still there...... Link to post Share on other sites
giotto Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 I should have the the quantity of sex as a barometer for the health of a marriage........ I'd like to think the quality is still there...... sure... if we consider the quality as a barometer, I'm in there... Link to post Share on other sites
Fallen Angel Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Start a new post if you want to list what men do wrong and don't have sex..... We know it will go for 50 pages.... Again this is not the point of the post. For a minute pretend that all my friends are decent people and as said all are decent looking, fairly successful (i.e. 6 figure salaries+), healthy, not overweight, not alcolohics, drug addicts, womanizers or cheaters..... I state this only so that some issues can not be used as a reason to not have sex. It is fascinating, funny and somewhat indicative the responses to the sex question asked. Those divorced with younger GF's have sex 5-12X's as much..... Maybe I am just stupid, but I have given you what I thought were valid answers to your question.. yet you seem to discount every one of them. What are you looking for? What answer would please you? Do you want to hear that it is because the married women are older, and don't crave sex because of their age? Would that be a suitable response for you? Or how about, women are just all b*tches, and we use sex as a means of having control. Would that be a valid answer in your eyes? You have asked a question, and received many honest answers, yet you throw them all aside still digging for the answer YOU WANT TO HEAR. So rather than ask us the question, why not just give us the answer, since we are all too dumb to answer it ourselves anyway? Link to post Share on other sites
Author Toodamnpragmatic Posted October 13, 2009 Author Share Posted October 13, 2009 Maybe I am just stupid, but I have given you what I thought were valid answers to your question.. yet you seem to discount every one of them. What are you looking for? What answer would please you? Do you want to hear that it is because the married women are older, and don't crave sex because of their age? Would that be a suitable response for you? Or how about, women are just all b*tches, and we use sex as a means of having control. Would that be a valid answer in your eyes? You have asked a question, and received many honest answers, yet you throw them all aside still digging for the answer YOU WANT TO HEAR. So rather than ask us the question, why not just give us the answer, since we are all too dumb to answer it ourselves anyway? No and your response is that it is all the male's fault in these relationships, and in some twisted way it is my friends who are divorced and were so due to no adultery, drug or alcohol problems, thus relationship issues, are now good in relationships and having sex 5-10X's as much as the shmucks in marriages????? Just playing out your obvious conclusion. Something just does not make sense... Giotto, JamesM, I think we have an answer and should quit our bellyaching..... Link to post Share on other sites
Fallen Angel Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 No and your response is that it is all the male's fault in these relationships, and in some twisted way it is my friends who are divorced and were so due to no adultery, drug or alcohol problems, thus relationship issues, are now good in relationships and having sex 5-10X's as much as the shmucks in marriages????? Just playing out your obvious conclusion. Something just does not make sense... Giotto, JamesM, I think we have an answer and should quit our bellyaching..... I NEVER said that.. show me ONE PLACE where I said anything even REMOTELY like that!!! Link to post Share on other sites
soserious1 Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 (edited) Start a new post if you want to list what men do wrong and don't have sex..... We know it will go for 50 pages.... Again this is not the point of the post. For a minute pretend that all my friends are decent people and as said all are decent looking, fairly successful (i.e. 6 figure salaries+), healthy, not overweight, not alcolohics, drug addicts, womanizers or cheaters..... I state this only so that some issues can not be used as a reason to not have sex. It is fascinating, funny and somewhat indicative the responses to the sex question asked. Those divorced with younger GF's have sex 5-12X's as much..... Ok, so divorced men can go out and get much younger women and have sex 5-12 x's as much as married men do I'd say then that if you're a married man who desires more sex and you've exhausted all options in getting your wife to put out more then perhaps divorcing and finding a younger woman is the best option. As a person who divorced in large part due to issues and struggles around sex, I can say that who's "fault" it is becomes a moot point after awhile, you can struggle over sexual issues till you reach the point where suddenly you wouldn't want the refusing spouse even if he/she crawled before you naked begging forgiveness. The sexless nature of the marriage then has passed the point of no return, best to minimize the bleeding and formulate your exit plan. Edited October 14, 2009 by soserious1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Toodamnpragmatic Posted October 14, 2009 Author Share Posted October 14, 2009 I NEVER said that.. show me ONE PLACE where I said anything even REMOTELY like that!!! No what I posted was a funny aside from a night out with the guys (please note, no bars, strip joints or pick up places involved). I just noted a huge disparity in the sex between those in happy, good marriages and those in relationships 1-2 years in length. Some (and all of them women) have taken this as a chance to deride the married male's relationships or to use the familiarity breeds contempt/boredom mantra. Actually that is the interesting postscript to my OP...... Link to post Share on other sites
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