Incredibly unscientific Poll.....

[silktricks]

Divorce before 50 and sow your oats.... I think unfortunately it is indicative of what is. And trust me, not one of these friends married have a "bad" marriage.....

 

Heck 10-12X's a month would be wonderful, but only so much an old guy can take.....

 

I'm older than 50 as is my H, and we certainly have sex AT LEAST 12 times/mo. for cryin' out loud, that's only 3 times a week....

[soserious1]

No what I posted was a funny aside from a night out with the guys (please note, no bars, strip joints or pick up places involved).

 

I just noted a huge disparity in the sex between those in happy, good marriages and those in relationships 1-2 years in length.

 

Some (and all of them women) have taken this as a chance to deride the married male's relationships or to use the familiarity breeds contempt/boredom mantra.

 

Actually that is the interesting postscript to my OP......

 

 

I don't find anything "funny" about being in a marriage where your sexual needs go largely unmet, I also suspect that one of 2 things is happening either those "happy, good marriages" you've cited are not so good behind closed doors as nobody can be privy to all that transpires behind the closed doors of another person's marriage and most folks tend to present their best face in public.

 

or.. that being minimally sexual in the content of a long term marriage is a normal condition for many people.. which then begs the question ..is having a continued high sexual drive normal after one has been married for many years, particularly if one has fufilled the biological mandate to reproduce?

 

Of course, the sampling of your peer group isn't enough to form a conclusive study:)

Edited October 14, 2009 by soserious1

[mem11363]

It is very hard to maintain passion in a LTR.

 

If at the start either partner sees sex as optional and only something to participate in if both feel like it - it will become a low sex marriage eventually. If both partners see sex as part of their vow to love, you have a shot - and just a shot at a passionate long term marriage.

 

Even so, this requires a delicate balancing act. The low drive spouse has to love the high drive spouse enough to derive pleasure from giving pleasure more than receiving it. The high drive spouse needs to mask their desire to some degree, be playful about the desire gap and use it to their advantage. A certain amount of unmet desire - at least in a man - fuels his ambition, sharpens his senses and brings him an edgy energy. Too much - is like too much fire inside - it burns - it hurts and ultimately it will drive you mad.

 

At the end of the day though - it is difficult to resist a partner who can say in all truth - I deny you nothing of substance - and in return I only require two things: be a good parent to our children, and love me in the way a man needs to be loved.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Out with friends Saturday and the question came "How often do you have sex?"....

 

All males (6) mid-40's.... All professional, fairly well-to do, decent looking with spouses the same. Not a single one with health problems or weight issues (for purposes of this poll).... Marriages or common-law partnerships all 10-23 years..... Two divorced...... All have young children, mine the oldest (outside one divorced) @ 13 & 16..... Others range 2-9......

 

So how often...... 1-1.5 X per week to 1 X per month for married. 10-12 X per month for the two divorced with GF's in their 30's.....

 

Tell my wife and she laughs and nods, explaining "Well those two don't have to see their BF's everyday"......

 

Does it say anything? No, but funny, eye-opening and pretty much what I expected......

[soserious1]

What if, in the end, barring drug addiction, etoh abuse or other obvious abuses, a sexless marriage is simply the

outgrowth of having been successful at our biological mandate ie: reproduction?

 

We have fewer children than any generation before us and we place a premium value on those offspring. Children used to add to the family coffers by sharing in the work of the family ie: the agricultural model. Nowadays it can cost over 1 million dollars to rear a child from birth thru grad school.

 

In a society where children cost so dearly, it would make sense if our biological drives for sex were dampened once we'd reproduced our 2 offspring, after all if children require massive resources to rear diluting those resources

among even more offspring wouldn't make sense.

 

Maybe, just maybe sexless marriages arise from a lot of different, random factors that vary from couple to couple

and it doesn't mean that men are disgusting pervs or that women are evil biatches?

[mem11363]

How many men on here can say they believe that they can be at a frequency of once a month with an attractive partner they like and love and describe their marriage as happy?

 

I flat out don't believe it. If both people are healthy, and the man has a sort of normal drive in his mid forties - once a month is a starvation diet.

 

I have a question for the women: if you are with a guy who is very attracted to you and wants to connect 2-3 times a week, and you are only connecting with him once a month what does that mean?

 

I thought it meant that the woman in question has calculated the minimum amount of sex to avoid a divorce and is providing that. I just don't see how the OP can say happy marriage in the same paragraph where I am reading "sexual aversion."

 

 

I NEVER said that.. show me ONE PLACE where I said anything even REMOTELY like that!!!

[soserious1]

How many men on here can say they believe that they can be at a frequency of once a month with an attractive partner they like and love and describe their marriage as happy?

 

I flat out don't believe it. If both people are healthy, and the man has a sort of normal drive in his mid forties - once a month is a starvation diet.

 

I have a question for the women: if you are with a guy who is very attracted to you and wants to connect 2-3 times a week, and you are only connecting with him once a month what does that mean?

 

I thought it meant that the woman in question has calculated the minimum amount of sex to avoid a divorce and is providing that. I just don't see how the OP can say happy marriage in the same paragraph where I am reading "sexual aversion."

 

 

I can only answer your question in the context of my situation as a woman who divorced a man over sexuality issues.

 

My husband quite simply no longer found me physically attractive enough to be sexual with me. Now I can't speak about why married women decide to not have sex but it seems to me if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and has feathers then it's usually a duck. People usually decide to stop having sex when the act is no longer pleasurable to them or when they deem the pleasure they receive as not being worth the work and effort involved.

When you add in a year, 3 or 5 of arguing about sex the entire issue mushrooms into something not easily repaired.

 

My ex just didn't desire me anymore, all the talking, begging and compromising in the world did was to make his aversion to me even stronger.

 

Also, if you are a prideful person, the type who hates having sex with a spouse unless they're offering it because they're burning

up with lust, efforts to fix things will probably fail. Unless one can accept the offer of sex from a lower drive partner as an expression of their love instead of viewing the offer as "mercy" or "pity sex" things won't work well.

 

I think we can perhaps negotiate more frequent sex but we cannot browbeat, guilt or punish a person into lustfully

wanting us as badly as we want them on a physically level. Even if my ex had said that he'd agree to having sex

with my x number of times per month to fulfill his marital promise, it wouldn't have worked as I'd have cringed

at the thought of mercy sex sessions. Our arguments, the wounding sting of constant rejection and lowered self-esteem

that went along with it all was just to great.

Edited October 14, 2009 by soserious1

[eeyore1981]

No what I posted was a funny aside from a night out with the guys (please note, no bars, strip joints or pick up places involved).

 

I just noted a huge disparity in the sex between those in happy, good marriages and those in relationships 1-2 years in length.

 

Some (and all of them women) have taken this as a chance to deride the married male's relationships or to use the familiarity breeds contempt/boredom mantra.

 

Actually that is the interesting postscript to my OP......

 

BBM

 

Did you ever stop to think if so many are saying it, it might have some truth in it?

[soserious1]

Wanted to share a few more thoughts here, if you all can indulge me by reading further:)

 

As I approach the 1 yr mark of when things finally came to a head in my marriage, I see that our sexual problem grew slowly over time.. beginning 1st with his inability to regularly climax with me, that slowly mushroomed into a situation where sex became fraught with a lot of anxiety... and not just for him, over time when it became more than clear that he no longer found me arousing, each sexual interlude left me feeling worse and worse about myself. I couldn't enjoy sex even on the increasingly rare occasions when we would try because in the back of my mind all I could think was that he was doing this like it was a chore, being intimate with me was akin to mowing the lawn or taking out the trash.. as our conflicts worsened he actually started admitting to this and even worse.

 

I don't know all the hows and whys of sexless marriage, I do know that each person needs to try to decide early on

what their limits are and to be very clear with their spouse about them. In my situation there were no children to consider. I think in situations involving kids, you need to think long and hard before deciding to stay or go but that

staying should not be an option when the war over sex has reached levels that are as emotionally abusive as my situation became.

 

The saddest part of my marriage was not that he fell out of lust with me but rather that the 2 of us couldn't summon enough respect for each other and the love we once had to be straight and honest with each other a LOT sooner.

[Mr. Lucky]

How many men on here can say they believe that they can be at a frequency of once a month with an attractive partner they like and love and describe their marriage as happy?

 

I flat out don't believe it. If both people are healthy, and the man has a sort of normal drive in his mid forties - once a month is a starvation diet.

 

I have a question for the women: if you are with a guy who is very attracted to you and wants to connect 2-3 times a week, and you are only connecting with him once a month what does that mean?

 

I thought it meant that the woman in question has calculated the minimum amount of sex to avoid a divorce and is providing that. I just don't see how the OP can say happy marriage in the same paragraph where I am reading "sexual aversion."

I agree. A partner that refuses to participate on a reasonable sexual level is manifesting something - anger, resentment, alienation, hurt, etc. And if (at least) one partner feels that way, how can you say you have a "happy" marraige ???

 

Mr. Lucky

[JanetD]

How can a conclusion be drawn when the men in one group have been in relationships of 10 years or more and the men in the other group have been in relationships of a much shorter length?

[NoIDidn't]

it takes two to have consentual sex.

 

I agree with you there. I'm also saying that a couple's sex life is often set by what the man dictates. Men *might* say they want an aggressive woman in bed, but few can actually cope with a chick who has a healthy appetite for sex, because they don't think it's "natural."

 

for all the squawking I hear about women being the ones who give sex in a committed relationship the kiss of death, I say "POOH!"

 

I think the opposite. I think the woman sets the pace of sex in a relationship. It may be the man who intiates more often, but it's the woman who decides whether or not it's going down more often imo.

 

I also agree that it's the woman who sets the pace..

 

I disagree with all of you. I say its the person that has the lowest sex drive that sets the pace. Whatever gender they may be.

 

This really isn't about the stereotypes, its about the sex drives.

[NoIDidn't]

How can a conclusion be drawn when the men in one group have been in relationships of 10 years or more and the men in the other group have been in relationships of a much shorter length?

 

I agree. This is like comparing apples with pineapples. Just because they both have apple in the name, doesn't make them similar. Same with these relationships.

 

Its not fair to compare long-term marriages to relationships that aren't as long, have no children to consider, and aren't truly committed. Not to mention the young single women vs. the older married women thing. That's really unfair, IMO. These two have about as much in common as prepubescent girls and embryos. Both alive and human (maybe even female, LOL), but life experiences are completely different at those stages.

[giotto]

How many men on here can say they believe that they can be at a frequency of once a month with an attractive partner they like and love and describe their marriage as happy?

 

I flat out don't believe it. If both people are healthy, and the man has a sort of normal drive in his mid forties - once a month is a starvation diet.

 

I have a question for the women: if you are with a guy who is very attracted to you and wants to connect 2-3 times a week, and you are only connecting with him once a month what does that mean?

 

I thought it meant that the woman in question has calculated the minimum amount of sex to avoid a divorce and is providing that. I just don't see how the OP can say happy marriage in the same paragraph where I am reading "sexual aversion."

 

 

well, I have to agree with this... even if the lack of or infrequent sex is due to low sex drive and not lack of love, it must have a deep effect on the relationship... that's why I was agreeing to the "relationship issue" statement...

[Toodamnpragmatic]

Mostly the issue with the married are the children/work impeding opportunity.... I find it really interesting that yet again people not knowing me (at least no more then what I post) and my friends, all have opinions on the state of their marriages all from the frequency they have sex.

 

I have news for you, I know many many people having little to no sex and this is much more common then those having lots and lots of sex.

 

I'm sorry for those in bad relationships, with lousy husbands or one's that did not fulfill their sexual needs. I really do empathize with those in unhealthy relationships.

 

I've asked in other posts what one thinks is average in terms of quantity of sex and in people in their 40's and older I do not think it is nearly as high as many here would think.

[giotto]

I've asked in other posts what one thinks is average in terms of quantity of sex and in people in their 40's and older I do not think it is nearly as high as many here would think.

 

mine is definitely "not very high"...

[OWoman]

I'm older than 50 as is my H, and we certainly have sex AT LEAST 12 times/mo. for cryin' out loud, that's only 3 times a week....

 

And why not?

 

On some other thread someone posted that they were very concerned that my H and I had sex on average 3 times a day - that thought that was seriously perverse and showed some dangerous character flaws, but I would far rather we harnessed our libidos in the development and deepening of our R than that we took cold showers, wore hair shirts and forced ourselves to watch gardening programmes on the TV instead! When did two consenting adults expressing their love and intimacy within their M become wrong, FFS?

[OWoman]

I've asked in other posts what one thinks is average in terms of quantity of sex and in people in their 40's and older I do not think it is nearly as high as many here would think.

 

That's fine if you're happy to be average. I'd rather excell...

[Lizzie60]

I disagree with all of you. I say its the person that has the lowest sex drive that sets the pace. Whatever gender they may be.

 

This really isn't about the stereotypes, its about the sex drives.

 

 

I agree..I should have added that, in general, it's the woman who has the lowest sex drive.. but I agree it's the partner with the lowest sex drive.. has to be.. only logic..

[Lizzie60]

How many men on here can say they believe that they can be at a frequency of once a month with an attractive partner they like and love and describe their marriage as happy?

 

I also don't believe this.. unless the H has a low sex drive.. then everything is perfect..

 

I flat out don't believe it. If both people are healthy, and the man has a sort of normal drive in his mid forties - once a month is a starvation diet.

 

I agree.

 

I have a question for the women: if you are with a guy who is very attracted to you and wants to connect 2-3 times a week, and you are only connecting with him once a month what does that mean?

 

btdt.. he was very attracted to me.. wanted sex every single day... but I didn't.. sex was a sacrifice with him.. but my libido was healthy since I was fantasizing about other men.. never cheated.. but once I left him.. I went on a sexual rampage.. then lived 5 years with a much younger man...sex was amazing.. so I guess.. I just didn't love him anymore as a 'lover'.. I loved him like a brother.. or a best friend.. nothing sexual. and I know lots of women who feel the same way.

 

I thought it meant that the woman in question has calculated the minimum amount of sex to avoid a divorce and is providing that. I just don't see how the OP can say happy marriage in the same paragraph where I am reading "sexual aversion."

[hopeful1980]

What if, in the end, barring drug addiction, etoh abuse or other obvious abuses, a sexless marriage is simply the

outgrowth of having been successful at our biological mandate ie: reproduction?

 

We have fewer children than any generation before us and we place a premium value on those offspring. Children used to add to the family coffers by sharing in the work of the family ie: the agricultural model. Nowadays it can cost over 1 million dollars to rear a child from birth thru grad school.

 

In a society where children cost so dearly, it would make sense if our biological drives for sex were dampened once we'd reproduced our 2 offspring, after all if children require massive resources to rear diluting those resources

among even more offspring wouldn't make sense.

 

Maybe, just maybe sexless marriages arise from a lot of different, random factors that vary from couple to couple

and it doesn't mean that men are disgusting pervs or that women are evil biatches?

 

I have to say this theory is valid. It stands to reason that given the circumstances people (especially women) are evolving to have slower sex drives. It makes sense. I've often felt this way myself. When I wanted children, I wanted sex all of the time. Now that I have 2 kids and have no desire to reproduce, my sex drive has gone down. It's logical.

[hopeful1980]

I agree..I should have added that, in general, it's the woman who has the lowest sex drive.. but I agree it's the partner with the lowest sex drive.. has to be.. only logic..

 

I agree as well. In general, the woman has the lower sex drive. But doesn't that make sense seeing as how it is the woman who has to bear most of the physical consequences of sex should she get pregnant? It only makes sense that women would want sex less frequently than men. It's like natures birth control.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

That's fine if you're happy to be average. I'd rather excell...

 

Yes, wouldn't we all...... Let me be the first to say that you do excel..... What I am saying is I know that I can complain/post here in anonymity and read others posts, and I certainly know that things for me are much better then many.....

 

The more I read and research, the happier I am in my relationship and own skin. The fact that my friends confirmed my suspicions is not a terrible thing.

 

But yes I do aim to excel.......

[giotto]

So, TDP, if you position yourself in the same group as your friends, are you satisfied with it? Do you think it's the norm? And why do you think they find themselves in that position? Are they happy about it?

 

To be honest, I re-read the thread and I don't quite know what you are getting at. Many women here think it's their (the men's) fault, but I never got to know your opinion about this particular matter... or at least I haven't found it yet in any of your posts... but I might be wrong! You seem to imply that the lack of sex is very widespread amongst couple with 20+ years of marriage, and that your relationship is ok... so, why do you think the lack of sex happens and why are you so interested in it if you marriage is fine? Just curious...

[quankanne]

I disagree with all of you. I say its the person that has the lowest sex drive that sets the pace. I can buy that – because it's the one who wants sex the least who dictates how often sex is offered/shared. And it sucks when you're the one with the "higher" sex drive.

 

which is ironic, as one poster pointed out: You want to be intimate with that person, but when it finally *does* happen, you worry about stupid shxt to a point where it's just not enjoyable ... is he going to throw his back out? Is this a mercy fook? He really doesn't want to do this, he's just pretending to want it so he can get it overwith ... etc.

 

the question of how, then, do you have a happy marriage when sex sucks? You come to the reality that sex isn't the be-all end-all of the relationship, it's just a part of it, and you learn to bend as needed, like a willow in inclement weather. Of course I want my husband to chase me around the house and initiate sex because he really and truly wants to do me, but to be happy in my relationship, I've got to get rid of those expectations and learn to work with what's actually there.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

So, TDP, if you position yourself in the same group as your friends, are you satisfied with it? Do you think it's the norm? And why do you think they find themselves in that position? Are they happy about it?

 

To be honest, I re-read the thread and I don't quite know what you are getting at. Many women here think it's their (the men's) fault, but I never got to know your opinion about this particular matter... or at least I haven't found it yet in any of your posts... but I might be wrong! You seem to imply that the lack of sex is very widespread amongst couple with 20+ years of marriage, and that your relationship is ok... so, why do you think the lack of sex happens and why are you so interested in it if you marriage is fine? Just curious...

 

Mostly sex decreases because of children for a number of years, and that is okay and expected. However once there is time again, does sex return to those prior levels? Heck do you remember what it was like?

 

My issue with the thread is women (by and large) have used it again to comment on the ills of marriage and their spouses. Men on the other hand, particularly in the section of LS seem to be madly in love and attracted to their wives..... Which I find quite interesting.

 

Then there is Lizzie, who basically tells men that women may love them but by and large, fall out of lust or sexual feelings for them, which bothers me to no end.

 

My friends are all holding out for the time when there will be more time and sex will increase. Whether it does or not, I don't know and will tell them when and if they ask:laugh:. I will note that amongst these married men, all the spouses are as attractive or more so then when they first met (mine too).

 

I am the first to admit I am shallow and I look at other males in my age bracket and I am well ahead of the curve when it comes to spouses that you are sexually attracted too...... So as the entire package goes, I am very happy...... I do think it is the norm 2-4 X's a month.... Am I happy, not 100%, but the fact is that I am excited that I want sex more with my wife, as opposed to 95% of other late 40's women I see at school, on the street....

 

I will make the ultimate shallow statement..... Told my wife to put on 40lbs, and I promise to stop chasing her as often as I do......

 

So I am ahead of the game.