Incredibly unscientific Poll.....

[Mr. Lucky]

So, TDP, if you position yourself in the same group as your friends, are you satisfied with it? Do you think it's the norm? And why do you think they find themselves in that position? Are they happy about it?

 

To be honest, I re-read the thread and I don't quite know what you are getting at. Many women here think it's their (the men's) fault, but I never got to know your opinion about this particular matter... or at least I haven't found it yet in any of your posts... but I might be wrong! You seem to imply that the lack of sex is very widespread amongst couple with 20+ years of marriage, and that your relationship is ok... so, why do you think the lack of sex happens and why are you so interested in it if you marriage is fine? Just curious...

The same thought occurred to me. When you're laying frustrated in bed next to your spouse, do you take solace in the fact that many of your friends are in the same boat? That approach never worked for me...

 

Mr. Lucky

[hopeful1980]

Mostly sex decreases because of children for a number of years, and that is okay and expected. However once there is time again, does sex return to those prior levels? Heck do you remember what it was like?

 

My issue with the thread is women (by and large) have used it again to comment on the ills of marriage and their spouses. Men on the other hand, particularly in the section of LS seem to be madly in love and attracted to their wives..... Which I find quite interesting.

 

Then there is Lizzie, who basically tells men that women may love them but by and large, fall out of lust or sexual feelings for them, which bothers me to no end.

 

My friends are all holding out for the time when there will be more time and sex will increase. Whether it does or not, I don't know and will tell them when and if they ask:laugh:. I will note that amongst these married men, all the spouses are as attractive or more so then when they first met (mine too).

 

I am the first to admit I am shallow and I look at other males in my age bracket and I am well ahead of the curve when it comes to spouses that you are sexually attracted too...... So as the entire package goes, I am very happy...... I do think it is the norm 2-4 X's a month.... Am I happy, not 100%, but the fact is that I am excited that I want sex more with my wife, as opposed to 95% of other late 40's women I see at school, on the street....

 

I will make the ultimate shallow statement..... Told my wife to put on 40lbs, and I promise to stop chasing her as often as I do......

 

So I am ahead of the game.

 

I guess I just have a different perspective. I was and thought others were just commenting on why they assumed these married men were not having sex as often as they like. The only POV I have is my own female one and the reasons why my husband wouldn't have it as often as he liked. I wasn't using this thread as an opportunity to bash him or men in general. Most women here also stated that women generally have lower sex drives as they get older and have more children/responsibilites. There were other reasons provided besides the lack of attention men generally give to their wives.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

The same thought occurred to me. When you're laying frustrated in bed next to your spouse, do you take solace in the fact that many of your friends are in the same boat? That approach never worked for me...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

 

No I think to author's like Joan Sewell, author of I'd Rather Eat Chocolate: Learning to Love My Low Libido and realize I am certainly not alone.....

 

There was a post and follow-up, which I have brought up in another post asking about the above author and her assertions. See Dan Savage and his archive from March 15-22, 2007 that has a great response to the question..... and then female responses the following week.

 

Frustrated I think is a real stretch...... Yes if I have gone beyond 2 weeks sure, but not after 2-3 days......

 

Way too many horny people as far as I can tell on this site.....

[OWoman]

I have to say this theory is valid. It stands to reason that given the circumstances people (especially women) are evolving to have slower sex drives. It makes sense. I've often felt this way myself. When I wanted children, I wanted sex all of the time. Now that I have 2 kids and have no desire to reproduce, my sex drive has gone down. It's logical.

 

Ha ha I'm the complete opposite - when I'm ovulating I tend to want sex less, or insist on "safer" activities (oral, anal, etc) but when that danger zone has passed, I can't get enough!!

[Toodamnpragmatic]

I guess I just have a different perspective. I was and thought others were just commenting on why they assumed these married men were not having sex as often as they like. The only POV I have is my own female one and the reasons why my husband wouldn't have it as often as he liked. I wasn't using this thread as an opportunity to bash him or men in general. Most women here also stated that women generally have lower sex drives as they get older and have more children/responsibilites. There were other reasons provided besides the lack of attention men generally give to their wives.

 

 

Again I ask, don't men get older and have more responsibilities as well and share in raising the children? Why is this not acknowledged when women post???

[OWoman]

Mostly sex decreases because of children for a number of years, and that is okay and expected. However once there is time again, does sex return to those prior levels?

 

No - it surpasses them! (Unless, of course, your partner looks like they're still pregnant...)

[hopeful1980]

Again I ask, don't men get older and have more responsibilities as well and share in raising the children? Why is this not acknowledged when women post???

 

Of course, but this doesn't seem to effect their sex drive like it does women so it seems a moot point. Men and women are different emotionally and physically, so it really goes without saying that we each react to marriage and life in general in different ways. Sex has always been a point of contention in most marriages with men claiming they don't get it as often as they would like. Of course there are exceptions to that rule, but in general that is true.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

Of course, but this doesn't seem to effect their sex drive like it does women so it seems a moot point. Men and women are different emotionally and physically, so it really goes without saying that we each react to marriage and life in general in different ways. Sex has always been a point of contention in most marriages with men claiming they don't get it as often as they would like. Of course there are exceptions to that rule, but in general that is true.

 

 

Exactly..... Just wanted to see that response posted by a female..... Thanks....

[giotto]

Mostly sex decreases because of children for a number of years, and that is okay and expected. However once there is time again, does sex return to those prior levels? Heck do you remember what it was like?

 

My issue with the thread is women (by and large) have used it again to comment on the ills of marriage and their spouses. Men on the other hand, particularly in the section of LS seem to be madly in love and attracted to their wives..... Which I find quite interesting.

 

Then there is Lizzie, who basically tells men that women may love them but by and large, fall out of lust or sexual feelings for them, which bothers me to no end.

 

My friends are all holding out for the time when there will be more time and sex will increase. Whether it does or not, I don't know and will tell them when and if they ask:laugh:. I will note that amongst these married men, all the spouses are as attractive or more so then when they first met (mine too).

 

I am the first to admit I am shallow and I look at other males in my age bracket and I am well ahead of the curve when it comes to spouses that you are sexually attracted too...... So as the entire package goes, I am very happy...... I do think it is the norm 2-4 X's a month.... Am I happy, not 100%, but the fact is that I am excited that I want sex more with my wife, as opposed to 95% of other late 40's women I see at school, on the street....

 

I will make the ultimate shallow statement..... Told my wife to put on 40lbs, and I promise to stop chasing her as often as I do......

 

So I am ahead of the game.

 

Thanks for that... I understand a bit more, now...

[mem11363]

I have a question for the women reading this post. The is for women who have been in at least 2 long term relationships - one of which your desire level stayed high and/or your sex life stayed really good the other where it did not stay high and/or your sex life got very limited over time due to your loss of desire.

 

Why?

 

In particular what behavioral differences were there between the men that you think influenced this outcome?

 

If the differences were totally physical - first time Brad Pitt, second time Danny Devito - you don't need to answer. Just curious about behavioral stuff.

[hopeful1980]

I have a question for the women reading this post. The is for women who have been in at least 2 long term relationships - one of which your desire level stayed high and/or your sex life stayed really good the other where it did not stay high and/or your sex life got very limited over time due to your loss of desire.

 

Why?

 

In particular what behavioral differences were there between the men that you think influenced this outcome?

 

If the differences were totally physical - first time Brad Pitt, second time Danny Devito - you don't need to answer. Just curious about behavioral stuff.

 

ROTFL!!!

[Toodamnpragmatic]

I have a question for the women reading this post. The is for women who have been in at least 2 long term relationships - one of which your desire level stayed high and/or your sex life stayed really good the other where it did not stay high and/or your sex life got very limited over time due to your loss of desire.

 

Why?

 

In particular what behavioral differences were there between the men that you think influenced this outcome?

 

If the differences were totally physical - first time Brad Pitt, second time Danny Devito - you don't need to answer. Just curious about behavioral stuff.

 

I'd say it is impossible to get an answer..... LTR would in the context of the OP be at least 10+ years..... So you'd have to have 2 10+ years relationships, no children (huge affect on a relationship both good and bad) and then have to hope there was no physical changes in appearance or performance/frequency of intimacy if that is an important factor for the female. Add to that issues such as health, drugs, alcohol, financial, infidelity that may have affected the partnership......

 

I doubt you will find a sample size that fits your criteria.

[Lizzie60]

I have a question for the women reading this post. The is for women who have been in at least 2 long term relationships - one of which your desire level stayed high and/or your sex life stayed really good the other where it did not stay high and/or your sex life got very limited over time due to your loss of desire.

 

Why?

 

In particular what behavioral differences were there between the men that you think influenced this outcome?

 

If the differences were totally physical - first time Brad Pitt, second time Danny Devito - you don't need to answer. Just curious about behavioral stuff.

 

I can answer..

 

First LTR... 18 years (29 yrs total)... SO 11 years older than me.. I completely fell OUT of love with him.. he was more like a brother.. everything else was good.. except the sex.. zero libido with him..

 

Second LTD ... 5 years total ... SO 12 years younger.. sex life was amazing until the very last day..

 

I don't think age was the factor... IMO it's more the years spent together.. routine kills passion.. so when there is no passion, there is no libido.. IMO.

[mem11363]

The initial theme of this post was basically: If you are married, you will be sexually underfed over time. The only way to be sexually well fed is to divorce and be with a younger GF. It was couched in disclaimers but that was the message.

 

I agree that this sexually underfed theme is common. And in a decent number of these situations, the women just don't like sex so much and/or don't think they themselves are sexy.

 

But in the rest of them:

Sure seems like there is a lot of confusion between being a helpful partner and being a sexy partner. Very common theme - guy posts that he is sexually deprived even though he does the laundry, cooking, etc. Most of these guys - the reason they are doing that is they asked their wives why their sex life is screwed up - but it wasn't a real conversation. It became a conversation about what the wife wanted more of. I would describe these posters as classically conflict avoidant. For example:

- The high drive partner complains about sexual frequency and the low drive spouse says, you should help out more around the house

- The high drive spouse then asks, will you have more sex with me if I am more helpful?

- The low drive spouse replies: That isn't what I mean in an annoyed tone of voice

 

And the conversation ends here with nothing resolved.

 

That is a perfect example of how a conflict avoidant husband interacts with his wife. The thing is, the conflict avoidant spouse is not able to change that. It is a trait.

 

Since these folks find it frightening to have this type of conflict, they take a different approach. They simply say that wives stop putting out over time no matter what you do.

 

Maybe this is blaming the victim, but the pattern that I have seen when reading posts from guys who are sexually underfed is this:

- They are not just sexually underfed, they are not that high a priority in general to their wives, and they feel neglected in other ways - basically they have accepted the role of second class citizen in the marriage

- They are conflict avoidant

- They are too nice

- They tend to talk like victims (this bad thing is happening to me and I have no control over it - aren't women biatches)

- They are too safe

- They seem awfully close to their wives. Too close. Any wife who says - the BF gets more sex then the husband because the GF doesn't have to see him every day - she might be joking, likely though the husband is too close to her, too available, too easy. And that fits this pattern of boredom that sees to be part of the puzzle.

 

 

 

I can answer..

 

First LTR... 18 years (29 yrs total)... SO 11 years older than me.. I completely fell OUT of love with him.. he was more like a brother.. everything else was good.. except the sex.. zero libido with him..

 

Second LTD ... 5 years total ... SO 12 years younger.. sex life was amazing until the very last day..

 

I don't think age was the factor... IMO it's more the years spent together.. routine kills passion.. so when there is no passion, there is no libido.. IMO.

[Fallen Angel]

 

Maybe this is blaming the victim, but the pattern that I have seen when reading posts from guys who are sexually underfed is this:

- They are not just sexually underfed, they are not that high a priority in general to their wives, and they feel neglected in other ways - basically they have accepted the role of second class citizen in the marriage

- They are conflict avoidant

- They are too nice

- They tend to talk like victims (this bad thing is happening to me and I have no control over it - aren't women biatches)

- They are too safe

- They seem awfully close to their wives. Too close. Any wife who says - the BF gets more sex then the husband because the GF doesn't have to see him every day - she might be joking, likely though the husband is too close to her, too available, too easy. And that fits this pattern of boredom that sees to be part of the puzzle.

 

I agree with most of what you said, but, I think that most posters are making this a 'who is at fault, man or woman' issue, and the truth is, we just do not know. Just because a man says he is not getting enough sex to his buddies, doesn't mean that is the truth. My xH said that kind of things to his friends all the time, yet HE was the one who was not performing in the bedroom.

 

As to if the men are "too close" to their wives, I think it is not a matter of familiarity breeding contempt, but rather a matter of couples spending a lot of time in the same space, but not really TOGETHER. I would say that both parties probably started slacking in the 'keeping it spicy' department, men get comfortable and quit complimenting their wives sexiness, women get comfortable and stop dressing sexily, men get comfortable and quit romancing their wives.. the wives get upset because they are not getting "romanced" (having their emotional needs met) they retaliate by not providing for the physical needs of their partners.

 

I think BOTH parties are likely equally a fault in MOST cases. If a man wants more sex he should offer more romance. If a woman wants more romance she should offer more sex.

 

In my opinion, the best way to have YOUR needs met, are by first meeting the needs of your PARTNER. Once they are happy, meeting your needs becomes something they WANT to do.

[hopeful1980]

I agree with most of what you said, but, I think that most posters are making this a 'who is at fault, man or woman' issue, and the truth is, we just do not know. Just because a man says he is not getting enough sex to his buddies, doesn't mean that is the truth. My xH said that kind of things to his friends all the time, yet HE was the one who was not performing in the bedroom.

 

As to if the men are "too close" to their wives, I think it is not a matter of familiarity breeding contempt, but rather a matter of couples spending a lot of time in the same space, but not really TOGETHER. I would say that both parties probably started slacking in the 'keeping it spicy' department, men get comfortable and quit complimenting their wives sexiness, women get comfortable and stop dressing sexily, men get comfortable and quit romancing their wives.. the wives get upset because they are not getting "romanced" (having their emotional needs met) they retaliate by not providing for the physical needs of their partners.

 

I think BOTH parties are likely equally a fault in MOST cases. If a man wants more sex he should offer more romance. If a woman wants more romance she should offer more sex.

 

In my opinion, the best way to have YOUR needs met, are by first meeting the needs of your PARTNER. Once they are happy, meeting your needs becomes something they WANT to do.

 

I wish that worked for me. My husband doesn't give me more romance when I give him more sex. It just leads to more sex. One month I made sure I initiated sex with him a least once a day and gave him bjs at least once a week and you'd think I'd get a backrub or some flowers or something. Nope. All I got was that he couldn't keep his hands off of me after that. And I did tell him I wanted more romance and was specific.

 

I guess it's like a wife asking her husband to do the dishes and instead of leading to sex it leads to her asking him to take out the trash. The list just gets longer and longer but you don't get your reward.

[Fallen Angel]

I guess it's like a wife asking her husband to do the dishes and instead of leading to sex it leads to her asking him to take out the trash. The list just gets longer and longer but you don't get your reward.

 

I really am sorry that it didn't work for you, but I have to say.. I laughed my @ss off when I saw that ^^^^^!!

[Toodamnpragmatic]

I wish that worked for me. My husband doesn't give me more romance when I give him more sex. It just leads to more sex. One month I made sure I initiated sex with him a least once a day and gave him bjs at least once a week and you'd think I'd get a backrub or some flowers or something. Nope. All I got was that he couldn't keep his hands off of me after that. And I did tell him I wanted more romance and was specific.

 

I guess it's like a wife asking her husband to do the dishes and instead of leading to sex it leads to her asking him to take out the trash. The list just gets longer and longer but you don't get your reward.

 

Well yes some man are lunk heads, others not so much..... Some people have this terrible misconception that women enjoy sex and may actually want sex and closeness with there husband with no ulterior motives....

 

Of course having sex should lead your husband (we are really simple creatures) to be a better person to be around, help more around the house, show recipricol affection and romance......

 

1 Month and everyday!!!!! He probably couldn't keep up with you and felt it became a chore......

[hopeful1980]

Well yes some man are lunk heads, others not so much..... Some people have this terrible misconception that women enjoy sex and may actually want sex and closeness with there husband with no ulterior motives....

 

Of course having sex should lead your husband (we are really simple creatures) to be a better person to be around, help more around the house, show recipricol affection and romance......

 

1 Month and everyday!!!!! He probably couldn't keep up with you and felt it became a chore......

 

Oh we didn't have sex every day, I just let him know if he wanted to it was available. I still do. Every night I suggestively ask him to meet me in the bedroom. Sometimes he gets up right away and other times he'd rather watch Jay Leno. It's fine with me.

 

I do enjoy sex with my husband - extremely. My motive to have sex with him isn't just to get affrection. I just miss the affection that we used to share when we aren't having sex. The nonsexual acts are just as important to me, but obviously not to him and I am lacking that in our relationship. That doesn't mean I'm going to quit having sex with him if I don't get my way. I'll just try again tomorrow and the next day for the rest of my life and we'll see what happens.

[giotto]

Oh we didn't have sex every day, I just let him know if he wanted to it was available. I still do. Every night I suggestively ask him to meet me in the bedroom. Sometimes he gets up right away and other times he'd rather watch Jay Leno. It's fine with me.

 

I do enjoy sex with my husband - extremely. My motive to have sex with him isn't just to get affrection. I just miss the affection that we used to share when we aren't having sex. The nonsexual acts are just as important to me, but obviously not to him and I am lacking that in our relationship. That doesn't mean I'm going to quit having sex with him if I don't get my way. I'll just try again tomorrow and the next day for the rest of my life and we'll see what happens.

 

wow, a wife - with small children - who wants sex all the time? I'm shocked!

[hopeful1980]

wow, a wife - with small children - who wants sex all the time? I'm shocked!

 

I make myself want it. We work different shifts. When I come home from work, he's going to work. So after I do all the chores, make dinner, and put the kids to bed, I have time to myself and I concentrate on being ready for him when he gets home. I have time to clear my mind of all the cares and worries that prevent me from being relaxed and get myself in the mood so when he walks through the door, I'm ready.

 

I don't want sex all the time, but I realize it is essential for a healthy and happy marriage so I make the effort.

[giotto]

 

I don't want sex all the time, but I realize it is essential for a healthy and happy marriage so I make the effort.

 

Can I give you my wife's e-mail address, so you can explain a few things to her?

[hopeful1980]

Can I give you my wife's e-mail address, so you can explain a few things to her?

 

I read The Surrendered Wife by Laura Doyle and it really put things into perspective for me.

[giotto]

I read The Surrendered Wife by Laura Doyle and it really put things into perspective for me.

 

Thanks... I heard of that... but my wife will never read it, especially with a title like that and especially if proposed by me...

[Toodamnpragmatic]

Thanks... I heard of that... but my wife will never read it, especially with a title like that and especially if proposed by me...

 

 

My wife would probably bash me over the head with the book if I tried to get her to read it. Is it in paperback:)? She however would rather I read "I'd Rather Eat Chocolate" by Joan Sewell.... Which as I have said sounds like the saddest indictment on marriage I ever heard.