Recalcitrant Inlightenment??????

[GrayClouds]

I was reading through some threads, one in particular. Like many on this side of the river of tears, it is another golden old heartbreak hymn. It runs for more then double digit pages where other original poster show little real healing throughout the thread.

 

I thought about some of my own threads. In essences, they consist of a combination of cathartic cleansing of grief, muddling in misery, and some good old self indigent poor poor pitiful me. These threads were wonderfully meet with understanding and grace by some surprisingly supportive strangers. But most of them show very little healing happen too.

 

They were also met with a few slams in the nutsack, smack on the head velvet hammers of honesty challenging me to let it go and move on. I want to be just can find the way. I think might be understanding why? (this is where I bring it all home, thanks for your patient) We know the hurt, we don't know the other side of the healing so we hold on to what we know.

 

Subconsciously, we feel if we wait in pain long enough it will be reward with something good. If we give it up we wont get the treat that we deserve for our effort.

 

While occasionally a good thing happens while we are in this state, like an EX come back. But that is despite the pain not because of it. Often we just extend the pain and we are left to wish, hoping and hurting.

 

In reality the vast majority of the time we don't get our just treat for holding on to the hurt. Good things do not happen for it. On the flip side. everyone who has let go of it has had good things happen. It can be that the EX came back, more likely something even better.

 

There is no real rewards for holding on to the hurt, even if everything internal is telling us differently.

 

I think I am on to something...or maybe I am just on something:rolleyes:

[TaraMaiden]

There is no real rewards for holding on to the hurt, even if everything internal is telling us differently.

 

And this, ladies and gentlemen, is what I would call a 'lightbulb moment'.....

[CaliGuy]

There is no real rewards for holding on to the hurt, even if everything internal is telling us differently.

 

If everyone who has been hurt could grasp this thought and hang on to it, we'd all move on a LOT faster.

[TaraMaiden]

I can see us three, forming the LoveShack Superhero Trio...... :laugh:

[Ilovecake]

I knew I let go when the "EX came back" was no longer a desirable option for me.

[TaraMaiden]

'Let go' is the operative phrase here.....!

 

'letting go', and 'letting be', are such simple premises, but they are also the hardest....

Because it means accepting something as it is, and abandoning any desire to make it otherwise......

 

It hurts.

 

But you have to let go of that, too....

[GrayClouds]

yes, but I really do want my doggie treat, I am such a good painfully pathetic pup...but I am tired of being in the dog house;)

Edited October 15, 2009 by GrayClouds

[Kaya]

Yey, here's to new perspectives

 

Xena is my hero!

[EricaH329]

This thread really got my brain working haha, I feel like I don't have enough time (or words) to say everything I want.

 

But i'll try.

 

As far as everyone healing goes... it's not something that's going to be noticeable over night. I feel like everyone here is trying to heal in their own way. Maybe it's by holding onto the pain (which, obviously contradicts healing) but in their mind, to them, the healing will follow.

 

Looking at it at in a different aspect, there are some people who enjoy (yes, enjoy) being in pain. So they wallow in it, not allowing themselves to fully move on or get passed the pain.

 

But, IMO, the majority of us want nothing more than to get over the pain of a heartbreak. Some people are stronger than others (hence the individuals who are noticeably healing), and the others aren't so strong (which makes for a question in whether they are actually moving towards healing).

 

Everything takes time. Person A could be on this site for a year and show little improvement, while person B could be on this site for a year and show great improvement. It all depends on the person.

 

But we are all here for support. Whether that means us just venting, or actually seeking advice (both makes us feel better to a degree) I think it's safe to say that we are making an honest effort towards feeling better about ourselves (aka healing).

 

Crap... I forgot what else I had to say. This always happens . I'll remember eventually and post back

[CaliGuy]

I can see us three, forming the LoveShack Superhero Trio...... :laugh:

 

Only if you're going to dress up like Xena.

 

I'll be Spiderman.

GC can be Superman.

 

Come to think of it, adult men in tights = not sexy.

 

LOL

[GorillaTheater]

I can see us three, forming the LoveShack Superhero Trio...... :laugh:

 

I volunteer to be the villain.

[TaraMaiden]

bananaman is a superhero too.....

[Broseph]

Dibs Villian!!!

 

Oh awesome post anyways GC

[GrayClouds]

 

But, IMO, the majority of us want nothing more than to get over the pain of a heartbreak. Some people are stronger than others (hence the individuals who are noticeably healing), and the others aren't so strong (which makes for a question in whether they are actually moving towards healing).

 

Everything takes time.

 

I agree with you completely, in fact I would not even say I am "healed". Likely far from it.

 

What I am saying is that there is something innate with the desire not to let the hurt go. It is the justification that proves we were wronged, it is the rationalization that we loved deeply, it is the reminder that the not in control, it is the support to allow us to feel like the better person. To give it up, let it go, means loosing something is comforting.

 

But the hurt really offers little. It does not make us better people, that comes from the effort to heal. The hard work of trying to heal and doing all of the things that is always suggest; exercise, hobbies. spending time with friends ect. We don't really learn anything from the pain, wisdom we acquire is begotten from the effort to move beyond.

 

If we are not cognizant of that the hurt offers us nothing then a reason to exert the effort to move beyond it, there is a strong temptation, almost reflex like desire to hold on to it. Not unlike holding on to a abusive relationship that you know is not good for you. Hoping it gets better, hoping to get reward for sticking it out.

 

So diligence to mindful the hurt offers us nothing is as important, if not more so, of a effort to heal as any other activity. This require those in pain not to ignore it but not to enshrine it.

[EricaH329]

I agree with you completely, in fact I would not even say I am "healed". Likely far from it.

 

What I am saying is that there is something innate with the desire not to let the hurt go. It is the justification that proves we were wronged, it is the rationalization that we loved deeply, it is the reminder that the not in control, it is the support to allow us to feel like the better person. To give it up, let it go, means loosing something is comforting.

 

But the hurt really offers little. It does not make us better people, that comes from the effort to heal. The hard work of trying to heal and doing all of the things that is always suggest; exercise, hobbies. spending time with friends ect. We don't really learn anything from the pain, wisdom we acquire is begotten from the effort to move beyond.

 

If we are not cognizant of that the hurt offers us nothing then a reason to exert the effort to move beyond it, there is a strong temptation, almost reflex like desire to hold on to it. Not unlike holding on to a abusive relationship that you know is not good for you. Hoping it gets better, hoping to get reward for sticking it out.

 

So diligence to mindful the hurt offers us nothing is as important, if not more so, of a effort to heal as any other activity. This require those in pain not to ignore it but not to enshrine it.

 

I was almost convinced that the purpose to this thread was completely forgotten.

 

My dear GrayClouds!! This is a post from someone that is in much pain. Everything you have described, is what everyone goes through in the very beginning of a break up.

 

The resistance towards moving on. The majority of the problem lies with acceptance. No one wants to admit that it is fully over once they break up. They always want to think 'There's another chance waiting...' but what they don't understand, is that even though there might be another chance around the corner... they are much better off without the other person.

 

Everyone deals with things differently.

 

I wish I could take your pain away. I would without question.

[TaraMaiden]

I agree with you completely, in fact I would not even say I am "healed". Likely far from it.

 

What I am saying is that there is something innate with the desire not to let the hurt go. It is the justification that proves we were wronged, it is the rationalization that we loved deeply, it is the reminder that the not in control, it is the support to allow us to feel like the better person. To give it up, let it go, means loosing something is comforting.

 

But the hurt really offers little. It does not make us better people, that comes from the effort to heal. The hard work of trying to heal and doing all of the things that is always suggest; exercise, hobbies. spending time with friends ect. We don't really learn anything from the pain, wisdom we acquire is begotten from the effort to move beyond.

 

If we are not cognizant of that the hurt offers us nothing then a reason to exert the effort to move beyond it, there is a strong temptation, almost reflex like desire to hold on to it. Not unlike holding on to a abusive relationship that you know is not good for you. Hoping it gets better, hoping to get reward for sticking it out.

 

So diligence to mindful the hurt offers us nothing is as important, if not more so, of a effort to heal as any other activity. This require those in pain not to ignore it but not to enshrine it.

 

New-Age Buddhist Monk here.....

 

Right Effort is a component of the Eightfold Path.

 

Just thought I'd put that in as a "how right you are, yet again", GC....

[GrayClouds]

My dear GrayClouds!! This is a post from someone that is in much pain. Everything you have described, is what everyone goes through in the very beginning of a break up.

 

If I can clarify, I agree that loss does produces a grieving process, one that is shared by us all. But in each case the way in which we go through the process is unique. It is personal with particular variables that influences depth and duration of it.

 

What also influences this process is not just resistance to move on, but a instinctual desire to see the pain as meaningful. If one is place their hand on a hot stove, they would quickly pull their hand from it. They would not keep it there and asked themselves why does this hurt, why does is this happening to me, if I keep it here will the pain stop. Conversely with the pain coming loss we experiencing there is a tendency for us to keep attemp to derive some answers or rewards. I am not saying everyone does this but I think many of us do and extend our suffering longer than it needs to be. And for most, overwhelm by the loss, we are unconscious we are doing so. Being aware of this pitiful and putting effort to move beyond it will greatly individuals pass the grief faster, no matter what their particular time line. We all have our own speed in the process but we all have the ability to influence that speed.

 

Everyone deals with things differently.

Correct but there are better way then other. I think most will agree that using supported friends, getting physically active, and eating well is a better way then isolation, sloth, and brownie binges. What is harder to accept that the other better way is to feel fire of loss and mentally pull our hands from it. This too will speed up the process but takes a great deal of effort. Simple but strenuous effort; a mindful commitment to feel the pain and then force yourself to mentally move beyond it. The balance of not fighting it but not embracing it.

 

It sound easy, it sounds obvious, so much so we often don't even think about doing it. Specially so when we are neck deep in crushes of grief. It requires a contiguous, consistent practice of awareness. This effort is greatly helped by realizing "I am getting no insight, no progress, no rewards by focusing on my pain." Quite frankly, i think offering this hardest advice to give to someone in pain and the hardest to hear.

 

I wish I could take your pain away. I would without question.

I have on doubt you could but it would require a long plane ride and rebounds really don't work:rolleyes: Seriously, I thank you very much for the sentiment.

[EricaH329]

GrayClouds--

 

I fully agree with what you are saying. I do think everyone needs to step away from the fire, instead of torturing themselves by staying next to it.

 

I, also, think that comes with maturity and experience though. I remember my first heartbreak. A little more than I would like. I was very young, and I didn't love him, but I remember not knowing how to deal with it. I was stuck in the denial stage for much much longer than I should have been.

 

But now that i'm older, and have had the experiences of heartbreak, i've learned what works for me and what doesn't. Trial and error. This heartbreak though, has made me take a long, hard look at myself.

 

Which is what I am suggesting everyone else to do that is going through a heartbreak. It's the best strategy that not only makes a person feel better, but allows them to heal at the same time.

 

I digress.

 

I think with the average person, immediatly after a heartbreak, they tend to wallow in it. Whether it's for an hour, a day, or a week. Until they realize that it's not working and it's not healthy. Any longer than a week... and you may have some psychological issues that are at play.

[GrayClouds]

GrayClouds--

I think with the average person, immediately after a heartbreak, they tend to wallow in it. Whether it's for an hour, a day, or a week. Until they realize that it's not working and it's not healthy. Any longer than a week... and you may have some psychological issues that are at play.

 

Again we are in agreement. I will go so far to say even the "wallow" is procedural. Though it is the part we have the most control over.

 

Often the question come up "I want to stop the hurt, how?"

The usual answer "let go"

Question "But How"

Answer: "Strick NC, exersize, using your support network, hobbies,ect"

 

I am saying that there is an additional way, which the effort of practicing not to focus on the loss, mindful of it exsistance but not let it rule. As of the formentions ways help uncontentious remove focus. I suggest contentious effort helps significantly. Even if you don't believe it, even if you can only let it go for 30 seconds, in time it will be minute. It's more then don't wollow, don't think about it. It is don't ignore it but don't give it control.

 

A man with one arm wants to clap. He can think about the fact he has only one arm a feel bad and not clap. He can ignore he the fact he has arm try to clap but be unsuccessful. Or he can say "I only have one arm so I will have to use my other arm and thigh and clap"

 

The arm is the pain of loss, focusing on it does not work, ignoring it does not work, but being mindful of it but not giving it control does works. Again not giving the pain any more value then it being there will help every to move on. It takes effort but if you feel stuck I suggest this is what you try.

 

(i kind of feeling like I should be sitting in the lotus position drinking herb tea... and this is the same guy who thought Nirvana was just a rock band)

[EricaH329]

Again we are in agreement. I will go so far to say even the "wallow" is procedural. Though it is the part we have the most control over.

 

Often the question come up "I want to stop the hurt, how?"

The usual answer "let go"

Question "But How"

Answer: "Strick NC, exersize, using your support network, hobbies,ect"

 

I am saying that there is an additional way, which the effort of practicing not to focus on the loss, mindful of it exsistance but not let it rule. As of the formentions ways help uncontentious remove focus. I suggest contentious effort helps significantly. Even if you don't believe it, even if you can only let it go for 30 seconds, in time it will be minute. It's more then don't wollow, don't think about it. It is don't ignore it but don't give it control.

 

A man with one arm wants to clap. He can think about the fact he has only one arm a feel bad and not clap. He can ignore he the fact he has arm try to clap but be unsuccessful. Or he can say "I only have one arm so I will have to use my other arm and thigh and clap"

 

The arm is the pain of loss, focusing on it does not work, ignoring it does not work, but being mindful of it but not giving it control does works. Again not giving the pain any more value then it being there will help every to move on. It takes effort but if you feel stuck I suggest this is what you try.

 

(i kind of feeling like I should be sitting in the lotus position drinking herb tea... and this is the same guy who thought Nirvana was just a rock band)

 

Very well said!!

 

I've learned that trying to redirect your focus onto other things (hanging out with friends, work, etc.) are a great way to start moving on and healing. Although, when those things are taken away momentarily, the pain begins to flood back.

 

I suggest redirecting your focus onto yourself. Learning from what you've been through, and realizing who you want to become now. Try making yourself happy for you. That way, when your friends have to go home, and work is over.. you'll still feel satisified.

 

That, though, takes a lotttt of effort. But totally worth the reward in the end.

[TaraMaiden]

Again we are in agreement. I will go so far to say even the "wallow" is procedural. Though it is the part we have the most control over.

 

Often the question come up "I want to stop the hurt, how?"

The usual answer "let go"

Question "But How"

Answer: "Strick NC, exersize, using your support network, hobbies,ect"

 

I am saying that there is an additional way, which the effort of practicing not to focus on the loss, mindful of it exsistance but not let it rule. As of the formentions ways help uncontentious remove focus. I suggest contentious effort helps significantly. Even if you don't believe it, even if you can only let it go for 30 seconds, in time it will be minute. It's more then don't wollow, don't think about it. It is don't ignore it but don't give it control.

 

A man with one arm wants to clap. He can think about the fact he has only one arm a feel bad and not clap. He can ignore he the fact he has arm try to clap but be unsuccessful. Or he can say "I only have one arm so I will have to use my other arm and thigh and clap"

 

The arm is the pain of loss, focusing on it does not work, ignoring it does not work, but being mindful of it but not giving it control does works. Again not giving the pain any more value then it being there will help every to move on. It takes effort but if you feel stuck I suggest this is what you try.

 

(i kind of feeling like I should be sitting in the lotus position drinking herb tea... and this is the same guy who thought Nirvana was just a rock band)

 

Wow.

 

And where does this bring you in your own experience, GC?

 

Tell me whether this is making a difference in your world, to your pain, because this is a complete 180 to your previous 'crappy weekend' thread.....

I would say most definitely.....

 

I would say 'my work here is done' but that sounds pretentious, trite egotistical and completely inappropriate.

 

What I would say, is:

 

When the finger is pointing at the moon,

It is a mistake to look at the finger.

 

In my opinion, you are definitely moon-gazing.

 

I am, quite seriously, breathtaken.

 

 

_/l\_

[GrayClouds]

Wow.

 

And where does this bring you in your own experience, GC?

 

Tell me whether this is making a difference in your world, to your pain, because this is a complete 180 to your previous 'crappy weekend' thread.....

I would say most definitely.....

 

I would say 'my work here is done' but that sounds pretentious, trite egotistical and completely inappropriate.

 

What I would say, is:

 

When the finger is pointing at the moon,

It is a mistake to look at the finger.

 

In my opinion, you are definitely moon-gazing.

 

I am, quite seriously, breathtaken.

 

 

_/l\_

 

Thank you.

 

Thought there is the intricate but immense leap to go from intellectualize to internalizing. Intresting enough it is the weekend again and I find myself precipitately racing down the rabbit hole. I not sure what it is but 4pm Friday the mind turns to goo. Then here comes the near continues counterproductive cerebral diatribes. But now I have a tool? Is it the knowledge to say "Stop, move on folks, nothing to see here?'

 

It like wanting to be able bench press 250 pounds and knowing that you have to start with 100 lb and work up to it over time through training and discipline. The concept can be easily understood but to internalize it to the point of showing up to the gym consistently is the real work.

 

I may be making progress but lord it is laborious. I think I am up to 145 lb and might have sprang my shoulder a bit on Friday...

 

So your work may not be done per-say, likely a few gentle(ya who am I kidding were talking about XBMWP here) reminders could be useful and needed.

[Devil Inside]

I have nothing to add right now...but just wanted to say...this is an impressive thread.

 

Truly accepting reality to end suffering.....good stuff.

[GrayClouds]

I have nothing to add right now...but just wanted to say...this is an impressive thread.

 

Truly accepting reality to end suffering.....good stuff.

 

 

Hopefully not a case of those who can not do, teach

[Devil Inside]

Hopefully not a case of those who can not do, teach

 

Oh no...I do suffering real well.