New here, heres my story

[J-Dad]

Well, if I’m going to tell my story I’ll start from the beginning. We met in high school and got married at 19. Soon to follow were 2 children in the following year. We both had issues that we worked through together, several problems maturing and knowing how to act in a relationship. Lots of nights were spent screaming at each other followed by the end result of the fighting

 

As we grew older we still had our intense fights and nitpicking, but those moments started to fall away and at least I thought we were getting along better. We bought a house, got the dog and started living the American dream. Some of my problems have been pornography that I have left out, in turn she would feel inadequate and starved herself for months and was bulimic. We have both had trust issues through the years; at a bar one night, a relative of my friend was overly friendly with me but that was as far as it went. There was nothing more than flirting, but I realize I shattered her trust and degraded her self esteem more. We worked through that moment and came out for the better.

 

There was talk of trying to have another baby, but I didn’t feel that our relationship was healthy enough to support another member and this has been a catalyst in our relationship for years. 2 years ago she was promoted to manager and this new position brought with it extreme stress levels. She complained constantly of hating her job and resented me for not letting her quit. So, we worked together to keep her job and go to tech school full time to pursue a career she would enjoy. With all of this stress and trying to maintain a family, along with my insane 12 hour swing shift it makes everything a hassle. We were always running, always angry, our relationship seemed like a business partnership. Then I got seriously ill this past summer and was home for about a month. Everything was fantastic, but unfortunately I had to go back to work, you know, earn a living. Then things started to get bad again. Arguing, screaming, breaking things. Our time together had been dwindling over the past month, but she was getting heavy into her classes so I thought nothing of it. Then on our anniversary weekend I had to work, she picked up some hours at work and stayed the night at her parents house which is normal since she doesnt like to be home alone on the nights that I work. She didn’t even call or stop by to acknowledge our 11 year anniversary and I was fuming. When I tried to call her she told me she was watching a movie with her mom and couldn’t talk. Since then it spiraled even more and in one our last arguments, I cant even remember who brought it up but we decided to split. She told me that I needed to get counseling (not us, just me) and I flat out refused. Within a week she has moved in with her mother and signed a 1 year lease on an appartment.

 

Most of the time she is the one devastated by the divorce talk, but this time its me. I cant make it through the day without sobbing like a baby. I have convinced her to try and work together on our issues and go to MC, but she says that she wants to get herself better before we can get our relationship better. Although this makes sense to me, it bothers me that she wont go to MC. I have convinced her to go for a separation rather than a divorce. I have been trying to talk her out of moving into an appt, maybe stay with her mom for a month and try to work on it, but she wont budge. Then, a morning after I had finished work, I broke the trust again and decided to check up on her. I drove by the places she said she was going to be and her car wasn’t there, so like a psycho, I called and questioned her. She eventually told me she went out to a bar with someone. This someone happened to be the man she was in a relationship in before we got together. She insisted nothing happened with him and they just talked. Either way I was devastated, and I guess it evened the score for my previous indiscretion. I believe her when she says nothing happened. Since then we have been talking and trying to work on things a little bit. I have called her crying, screaming, accusatory, remorseful and everything in between and she still takes my calls. She says she needs time to get better, she says she has no self esteem and wont know how to love until she loves herself.

 

I know our relationship sounds pretty awful, but those are the low points from an 11 year relationship, there have been countless moments of joy that seemed, at the time to outweigh the damage we had done to each other. My main concern is that once she’s in that appt its pretty much done. I don’t think she wants me any more buit she wont completely write me off either. Just today she agreed to meet me for breakfast. After a night at work while I was able to contort all kinds of scenarios in my head, I went off on her when she walked through the door. After about 10 minutes of angry phone calls back and forth we met and had breakfast and actually had a REALLY good talk, but in the end she is still moving out. She agreed to meet me and have “date nights”.

 

Let me clarify that I havent exactly been a peach through the years either; I drink, she thinks I have a drinking problem, I don’t think I do because I drink a 6 pack in a week, I have mentioned my problems with porn, I’m almost always grumpy because I’m sleep deprived, I can be antisocial and obsessive about money and the cleanliness of the house. It sounds like we are doomed, but we really are each other’s best friends. Is she just stringing me along while she looks for someone else? Is this the end? Is it worth saving? I seem to think so. I really need your help.

Edited October 17, 2009 by J-Dad

[Gunny376]

Your both life ~ job stressed!

 

BACK OFF!

 

Leave her alone ~ go complete no contact!

 

Get individual couseling.

 

Don't divorce!

 

Get IC.

 

After IC get MC (Marriage Counseling)

 

Time out!

 

Your way too young, trying to live life way too fast. Slow down, calm down, chill out and take time to exhale.

 

Catcth a breath damnit!

[J-Dad]

Thanks for the reply

 

Unfortunately I cant go NC because of the kids, but I understand that I cant keep calling her crying and screaming and begging her to come back. I have been browsing some of the other posts and found out a lot of useful info. I am going to make a Counseling apointment on Monday and order some books ( Getting Back Together, Divorce Busting).

 

MrMayI's "Just Hear Me Out" thread represents some of our problems and I have been trying to read up on that. But agreed, no divorce, we need to file for seperation to protect ourselves legally (since she is moved out) but we both seem to be somewhat commited to working it out.

[J-Dad]

I am debating what to do next. She says she wants to work but not together. I think she is having an EA/PA, if that is the case I WILL NOT work through that. So I dont want to waste the $ in filing a seperation, find out she's having an affair and have to trun around a month later and go for D. I'm thinking of installing a keylogger on her laptop to track what she is doing. She is Facebook friends with the alleged OM. I know this is a breach of trust on my part, but I am NOT going to be someone's backup plan and I need to know before I move forward.

[imagine]

If you are serious about her. Snoop and expose.

 

You need to learn about lovebusters such as angry outbursts, disrespectful judgements and how NOT to do these. If you cannot contain your anger, you may need pharmaceutical help.

 

I advise you to read the articles at marriage builders and learn of plan A and plan B.

 

Catch you afterward.

[tojaz]

J-Dad,

 

Your in a tough spot here. Best thing is to work on the problems you know YOU have, and let her work on hers. Shes not ready for MC, that hurts, but ask her to go to IC and you do the same. Stop arguing, yelling, fighting with her. If the conversation starts to escalate WALK AWAY!! I know you want to be heard, but if it's a fight nobody is hearing anything. I've been there, done the wrong things.

 

Put away the porn, show her she is more important to you.

 

Forum search the 180 and follow it to the letter with her.

 

If you choose to snoop (you will), Do not expose anything, until you are absolutely sure whats going on 100% and have made a decision what your going to do about it.

 

Watch Fireproof, i think you might get something from it.

TOJAZ

[tojaz]

The 180

 

Don't pursue reason, chase, beg, plead or implore.

No frequent phone calls.

 

Don't point out "good points" in marriage.

 

Don't follow her/him around the house.

 

Don't encourage or initiate discussion about the future.

 

Don't ask for help from the family members of your WS.

 

Don't ask for reassurances.

 

Don't buy or give gifts.

 

Don't schedule dates together.

 

Don't keep saying, "I Love You!" Because if you have a brain in your head, he/she is at this particular moment, not very loveable.

 

Do more then act as if you are moving on with your life; begin moving on with your life!

 

Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and independent.

 

Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go out with friends, enjoy old hobbies, find new ones! But stay busy!

 

When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words. Don't push any issue? No matter how much you want to!

 

If you're in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING. Seem totally uninterested.

 

Your partner needs to believe that you have awakened to the fact that "they (the WS)" are serious concerning their assertions as to the future (or lack thee of) of your marriage. Thus, you are you are moving on with your life? with out them!

 

Don't be nasty, angry or even cold - Just pull yourself back. Don't always be so available? for anything! Your spouse will notice. More important, he/she will notice that you're missing.

 

No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment? Make yourself be someone they would want to be around. Not a moody, needy, pathetic individual but a self assured individual secure in the knowledge that they have value.

 

All questions about the marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may not be for quite a while). Initiate no such conversation!

 

Do not allow yourself to lose your temper. No yelling, screaming or name calling EVER. No show of temper! Be cool, act cool; be in control of the only thing you can control? YOURSELF!

 

Don't be overly enthusiastic.

 

Do not argue when they tell you how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger). In fact, refuse to argue at all!

 

Be patient and learn to not only listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you? HEAR what it is that they are saying! Listen and then listen some more!

 

Learn to back off, keep your mouth shut and walk away when you want to speak out, no matter what the provocation. No one ever got themselves into trouble by just not saying anything.

 

Take care of you. Exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil.

 

Be strong, confident and learn to speak softly.

Know that if you can do this 180, your smallest CONSISTENT action will be noticed far more than any words you can say or write.

 

Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are feeling totally desperate and needy.

 

Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse. It's not always about you! More to the point, at present they just don't care!

 

Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives and do so in the most strident tones imaginable. Try to remember that they are also hurting and afraid. Try to remember that they know what they are doing is wrong and so they will say anything they can to justify their behavior.

 

Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel. It "ain't over till it's over!"

 

Do not backslide from your hard earned changes. Remain consistent! It is the consistency of action and attitude that delivers the message.

 

When expressing your dissatisfaction with the actions of the wayward party, never be judgmental, critical or express moral outrage. Always explain that your dissatisfaction is due to the pain that the acts being committed are causing you as a person. This is the kind of behavior that will cause you to be a much more attractive and mysterious individual. Further it SHOWS that you are NOT afraid to move on with your life. Still more important, it will burst their positive little bubble; the one in which they believe that they can always come back to you in case things don't work out with the OM/OW."

[J-Dad]

Thank you. I have been guilty of doing the opposite of those 180 tactics but now I know what I have gotta do. Play it cool. The hardest part is that I have to see her at least every 2 days because of our schedule. I feel confused about "no date nights". I understand that I need to have enough self respet to not want to "date" my wife, but I also dont want to push that opprotunity away.

 

With that said, I am going to snoop. Maybe that is a line in the sand that shouldnt be crossed, but I feel betrayed. I told her to cease contact with the OM but he is still on her FB page and leaving comments at 2:30 a.m., so I feel justified in doing it.

 

Nothing too hasty yet. She wants to come over on Sunday night to talk. I guess I just gotta try and be as collected as possible.

[tojaz]

Thank you. I have been guilty of doing the opposite of those 180 tactics but now I know what I have gotta do. Play it cool. The hardest part is that I have to see her at least every 2 days because of our schedule. I feel confused about "no date nights". I understand that I need to have enough self respet to not want to "date" my wife, but I also dont want to push that opprotunity away.

Not about self respect, what husband dosen't want to date their wife. It is a shame that you have to try and woo her all over again, but be greatful for the opportunity, a lot of us didn't get that opportunity, my ex gave me one date!

 

With that said, I am going to snoop. Maybe that is a line in the sand that shouldnt be crossed, but I feel betrayed. I told her to cease contact with the OM but he is still on her FB page and leaving comments at 2:30 a.m., so I feel justified in doing it.

Nothing wrong with that, just don't get caught and don't reveal anything to her until you've had a chance to process what you find fully. Giving it to her piece by piece as you find it will just make her a better liar.

 

 

Nothing too hasty yet. She wants to come over on Sunday night to talk. I guess I just gotta try and be as collected as possible.

Perfect time to stick to the 180, it's hard. Just keep it in your head! Even if she gets angry and tries to bait you into a fight, just stay cool and calm. Accept what she says with out playing tit for tat. Really listen!

TOJAZ

[J-Dad]

I left the LS home page open and my daughter saw it and told my wife that I was on an online dating site. Dang it! Cover is blown! I told her what this site is about and that I have nothing to hide, she can check it out if she wants. Myabe she will, maybe she wont.

 

The important part is that my little one didnt see any of the postings that I put on here.

[Aksion]

Not about self respect, what husband dosen't want to date their wife. It is a shame that you have to try and woo her all over again, but be greatful for the opportunity, a lot of us didn't get that opportunity, my ex gave me one date!

 

 

Nothing wrong with that, just don't get caught and don't reveal anything to her until you've had a chance to process what you find fully. Giving it to her piece by piece as you find it will just make her a better liar.

 

 

 

Perfect time to stick to the 180, it's hard. Just keep it in your head! Even if she gets angry and tries to bait you into a fight, just stay cool and calm. Accept what she says with out playing tit for tat. Really listen!

TOJAZ

 

Mine won't even give me the "privelege" I guess you'd call it, to speak with her. She wants to 'live her life in peace' and apparently, that doesn't involve me. I hope you make the best of said oppurtunity, and wish you the best.

[J-Dad]

Arrrgh! She initiated contact today, which went very well at first, all business. Then I took the bait and started asking about what we are doing, if we are working towards anything. All I got was noncommital answers which I guess is irrelevant. Its sure hard to follow the "rules" when the other person dosent know them, but I guess thats what becoming a better person is all about!

 

It's time. For myself if not my family, time to change. Time to get in the best shape physically, mentally and emotionally that I possibly can. After that, it's up to God/chance/fate/luck/etc

[Aksion]

Listen man -- there really are no 'rules'. You're gonna get a lot of advice here, but no situation is the same.

 

In the beginning with me, I went the whole pleading, hoping, wishing, telling her that we could fix this route -- until I realized that she really wanted no part of anything I said. So I've cut all contact with her except for when I let her know I was going to file, which she didn't respond to that e-mail. I've always worked out, but it just seems routine anymore. Everyone handles it differently, and honestly, I really hope you can handle it better than I have. Don't give up, but like many say, don't push the issue.

[J-Dad]

I have always tried to remain in good physical condition, even after we had been hitched for so long. A lot of people like to mail it in after they settle in to a relationship, but I always thought it was my job to look my best for her. Now I have to do it for my health and well being.

 

Yeah, I tried the begging and pleading and crying and everything in between at the start. They should give all newlyweds a kit of information, like this website and some of the books mentioned before on here. A lot of people, myself included, think that therapy is a joke and that they can just tough it out. Unfortunately that usually isnt the answer. Unless if you have been married several times before, almost every situation and disagreement is a new one, so is learning how to deal with it. From my perspective right now, I wish we would have talked to eachother more, instead of yelling or emoting. Reading some books together and even therapy i'm sure would have helped more than "toughing it out". If only we had been given that kit...

[tojaz]

I have always tried to remain in good physical condition, even after we had been hitched for so long. A lot of people like to mail it in after they settle in to a relationship, but I always thought it was my job to look my best for her. Now I have to do it for my health and well being.

 

Yeah, I tried the begging and pleading and crying and everything in between at the start. They should give all newlyweds a kit of information, like this website and some of the books mentioned before on here. A lot of people, myself included, think that therapy is a joke and that they can just tough it out. Unfortunately that usually isnt the answer. Unless if you have been married several times before, almost every situation and disagreement is a new one, so is learning how to deal with it. From my perspective right now, I wish we would have talked to eachother more, instead of yelling or emoting. Reading some books together and even therapy i'm sure would have helped more than "toughing it out". If only we had been given that kit...

Your building your own kit right now! If not for her, then for the next one. Your taking the time to learn about the relationship and the breakdown. Your going to benefit from that because what ever you don't fix in the relationship you carry to the next.

TOJAZ

[J-Dad]

Good couple of days. Was able to maintain my cool (for the most part ) when we had to talk. Bought "Divorce Busting" and started reading it. Actually starting to feel better on these first few steps of what is going to be a long journey. Destroying the porn tonight, even though it is the stuff she bought.

[tojaz]

Off to a great start! Also check out "Reconcilable Differences" very good book with a lot of good information!

TOJAZ

[J-Dad]

Wow, the revelations that were unveiled by fire are incredible! I lit up by fire pit in the back yard to destroy m what little was left of my pronography collection and just kind of stared into the flames for a while. All of those glossy pages dont burn very wll by the way, I thought burning them would be theraputic, I'm gonna have to take the rest to the dump tomorrow.

 

Anyways, while fixated on the flames I got to thinking about many of our relationship problems and realized what a jag I have been. Not self loathing or pity, just an awakening. I know that I need to make that appointment for counseling tomorrow so I can get this right.

[Gunny376]

Your building your own kit right now! If not for her, then for the next one. Your taking the time to learn about the relationship and the breakdown. Your going to benefit from that because what ever you don't fix in the relationship you carry to the next.

TOJAZ

 

You've gotten so much good advice here, I don't even know where to begin!

 

Vets know Vets!

 

People advising you?

 

Theyve been 'in-country'

 

Been there and back!

 

And gone again!

[PWSX3]

Porn addition isn't something you can just say; oh I'll get rid of it & things will be fine, you really need professional help...There is a reason you are watching it & that is what you have to figure out.....

 

I would like to suggest you check out celebrate recovery at a local church, good place to start, you meet good people that can help.

 

Working on yourself is the only thing you have control over & hopefully she will start to see it. When you do it for "you" & not for her then that is when you will grow.

 

Realizing that something is wrong & realizing what part "you" had in it is the first step.

 

I learned the other night in one of my classes that the percent of marriages that started before the age of 23 end up in divorce is VERY high.

 

I wish you the best but you do have a long road ahead of you. One thing to remember that I never did was listen when she speaks, don't set there while she is talking & try & figure out what you are going to say next. I remember setting in counseling and my former wife would be talking & the only thing I could think of was how I could defend myself, how I could prove she was wrong & I was right.

 

Like Tojaz said; if you start to argue just stop, ask if you could have a few minutes or even an hour to calm down and get your thoughts gathered before finishing?

[J-Dad]

Checked into my counseling option with the HR person at work last night, insurance will cover 20 visits, a good start. Had a reeaaaaaaaaaaaaaly rough night at work, my brain would just not stop running through everything. I had to come home ony my 40 minute lunch break to let my dog out and let out some pretty good yells on the drive home and way back, had a pretty good cry too.

 

Nothing but negative thoughts, then it finally hit me; as bleak as it seems, she is still moving out, but we have not signed any kinds of paperwork and we are having lunch together tomorrow. Not the brightest of outlooks but it put a smile on my face.

[imagine]

Sorry feller, when you meet her -look cheerful. A lady does not like to live around a corpse. Tell her that you genuinely missed her company.

 

Be the man that she fell in love with. Definitely no pleading.

[J-Dad]

Change of plans. She called me today and told me that she didnt want to see me anymore because it was too painful. Whatever. It saddened me but not to the degree I thought it would. She's just to flaky to commit to anything at the moment. Time to live my life right now, and my children of course. By the way she told me this after I gave her a "child support" check for $ 400. Nice.

 

I dont mention my children in this much because they seem genuinely happy, and if they are happy and adjusting to all of what is going on then maybe this is thh best thing for all involved, even though it dosent seem that way for me.

 

Whatever she wants, I dont care. I'm not going to be her lap dog any more. If she wants to move out and "be happy" so be it. I dont think you walk out on a relationship because you are unhappy, at least thats my idea of what a commitment ISNT!!! I'm going to get the help I need to get my head straight and see if this person is actually someone I would want to be with.

[J-Dad]

I went for a jog with my dog yesterday after getting home from work and made it all the way around the block, it felt great. I am really worried about the poor thing since he was her "baby". They really were ga ga over eachother, he would cry and pace the floor when she would get home, now he dosent eat any more and is vomiting all of the time. Poor dog...

 

I had to contact her last night about arrangements with the kids and we got to talking. It started out good and then devolved into bad; I'm a monster, I emotionally abused her, I violated her, I have a drinking problem, etc, etc. I told her that I'm not perfect and I'm sorry for the things that I did in the past but that is not why we were on the phone. It got better after that and we hashed a few things out. Like brunch tomorrow is back on. We are going to try and figure out if we are going to do a "family" halloween thing or not. I just gotta play it cool and not be the overbearing freak that I have been the past couple of weeks.

[J-Dad]

I started something new at work; I put a rubberband around my wrist and every time I start to get angry or feel the rush of emotions coming on I snap the rubberband. It helps me snap out of it, but by the end of the night I had red welts all over my wrists.

 

A fe songs popped into my head that helped me get through it, "I will survive" (pretty much all of the words made sense to me especially "I'm saving all my lovin for someone who's lovin me...") and Bonnie Raitt's song; "I cant make you love me if you dont, I cant make your heart feel something it wont"