Concerned about (suicidal) friend caught in a bad relationship

[Kamille]

I'm concerned about a friend of mine. She's aware that she's an insecure gf. She's been in a relationship with this guy for 6 months. Their relationship has been a roller coaster for as long as I've known her. I feel that they both participate in the fact that this relationship isn't healthy. He struggles to make time for her (for reasons I won't go into, but that I don't respect), which makes her insecure, which makes him want to spend less time with her. A pretty classic scenario.

 

She's been working on trying to be less insecure - but when they fight - ie, when he bails out on her- she kind of loses control of herself. I've been a witness to at least one fight and have heard about others. They're all about him not making her a priority in his life, with her being brought to question her own boundaries all the time. She's caught in a scenario where she does throw tantrums over insignificant stuff sometimes, but, IMO, that's only because some of her fundamental emotional needs are not being met.

 

I think her problem is that she doesn't leave him room to settle down when they fight. She doesn't give him time to take responsibility for his part in whatever fight they are having. She doesn't let him resolve the problems on his side of things. She wants to resolve the fight right away, so she'll throw a tantrum, then feel insecure, apologize and take responsibility for the whole thing.This ensures that they never actually get around to tackling their issues. And that she never takes the time to evaluate whether this relationship is actually what she wants.

 

He told her a few days ago that he lost faith in them and that he wants to break up. She was devastated, and, of course, then proceeded to convince him to stay. Many of us have made that mistake.

 

Now here is where I get concerned. I just spoke to her and she's basically put herself in the position where she will do anything for it to work out. She feels it's her responsibility to convince him that they should stay together. I've been there before and I know what a detrimental situation that can be, especially since it simply isn't clear to me that they will ever be compatible. He cannot offer her what she wants yet she refuses to accept that, because "she loves him".

 

We were talking about this and she said: "I don't care about my well being" to which I responded with a vehement "woah! that has to be your first priority, making sure that this relationship is healthy for you" to which she replied "you saw how devastated I was, I fear that if I feel that way I might kill myself". Turns out, she attempted suicide over her last break up, so she wants to do anything to avoid feeling that way again.

 

I'm definitely in over my head here. She does want to seek counsellling and I'm helping her find a therapist but, what would you do? How would you support a friend in this situation?

Edited October 18, 2009 by Kamille

[Kamille]

Any insight? She and I kind of fought on the phone because right now she doesn't want to listen to anything but "yes, you and your bf are going to work out".

 

I want to help her but really don't know how.

[melodymatters]

Oh lord, thats quite the kettle of fish !

 

I wish I had golden advice for you and your friend, but I'm afraid I can only reiterate what you've already stated in your OP !

 

Help her get therapy.

 

Don't alienate her : if a break up is inevitable, better to be there to pick up the pieces than read about her suicide in the paper !

 

Sadness does take quite a big chunk out of our souls, but one guy, and one break up: well she needs to do the work that we are all aware needs doing ( but us knowing it doesn't help her one whit).

 

I guess, just be there for her, and hugs to you for being such a caring friend ! {{{}}}}

[Kamille]

Thanks Melody - you are the absolute sweetheart.

 

I do care for her and will definitely do my best to not alienate her. But during that phone call I was finding it hard to support her approach to things. I guess I will hope the therapist helps her tackle the underlying issues. She definitely wasn't up to tackling them with me. All she wanted me to do is reassure her that she could save the relationship, one that I'm not sure is worth saving.

 

My first heartbreak (back in the 1990s!) was horrendous and I did alineate a lot of friends by refusing to listen to their advice and adopting a few self-destructive behaviors. I remember not being able to imagine the future without my ex, yet, I don't recall ever feeling suicidal. So I have to say I don't understand it.

 

Plus I fear that she's upping the ante on their break up! Imagine being the guy in this scenario! For reasons I don't understand, she's putting her well-being 100% at the mercy of this relationship. It's not healthy for the R and it certainly not healthy for her.

 

I don't understand it. If anyone could help me understand what she is going through, I would really appreciate your input.

[Big Star]

Hey Kamille. I think you're doing exactly the right thing by your friend in being open to discussing these issues with her and also helping her to seek therapy. This sort of effort on your part on behalf of your friend shows great personal strength and I congratulate you. Many people would simply close off at the idea of someone close to them being in such great distress over something which from the outside might seem insignificant. I have had friends who have done this to me in the past and it's tough. Your friend obviously has some deep insecurities, which is not uncommon - we all do. But to be rendered totally unable to leave a destructive relationship means that she probably feels as though she completely lacks the kind of emotional support she needs. Even though it might seem as though she does not appreciate your great amount of support I'm sure that once she is better she will be able to look back and see what a great friend you were. At least that was my experience.

[sb129]

Kamille I can understand a little where your friend is coming from- in another life I pinned more of my happiness than was healthy on destructive relationships.

 

Unfortunately, the only thing that worked for me was getting so deep into a horrible R that my friends and family all but gave up on me. That realisation that they were so close to that was the kicker that prompted me to get out of the R.

 

The guy in question doesn't sound as awful as my ex- to be fair to your friends BF, he is in a pretty tough situation too, he can clearly see that the R is unhealthy for both of them and is keen to end it before either of them get too invested/ hurt.

Which is his prerogative I guess.

 

I think your friend needs you, and she still needs you despite the fact that you aren't telling her what she wants to hear.

 

Its sad that her self esteem is so bad that she puts a R that isn't meeting her needs before her own happiness.

Keep the lines of communication open and encourage therapy- you are a good friend K.

[Kamille]

Your friend obviously has some deep insecurities, which is not uncommon - we all do. But to be rendered totally unable to leave a destructive relationship means that she probably feels as though she completely lacks the kind of emotional support she needs.

 

I didn't know up until yesterday that she had attempted suicide in the past. But now I understand a lot better why she would approach her relationship the way she did. When I got over my horrendous heartbreak, I told myself: I learned a lot and now I know that yes, you get over it. She, instead, is afraid of heartbreak because she associates it with completely so much pain that she attempted to kill herself. I pointed out to her that she did end up pulling through and that she did manage to get over it, but she's stuck in thinking that there is a problem with her that means she will always lose the men she loves. This is one of the reasons she wants to see a therapist and I am glad she at least has that healthy reflex.

 

Alos, she is an ocean away from her family, so she really struggles to find support in her current environment. She has a few good friends, and hopefully we can help her through this.

 

 

 

The guy in question doesn't sound as awful as my ex- to be fair to your friends BF, he is in a pretty tough situation too, he can clearly see that the R is unhealthy for both of them and is keen to end it before either of them get too invested/ hurt.

Which is his prerogative I guess.

 

Yeah, her bf isn't going to win any awards for boyfriend of the year any time soon, but he isn't a bad guy. He says himself that he's the kind of guy who needs a girlfriend that won't let him get away with any crap. Basically, he likes a girl who can crack the whip every once in awhile. Not my cup of tea, but I'm not the one in a relationship with him.

 

That's fine, except it's a terrible match for my friend, especially considering her deep-rooted insecurities. She can crack the whip, but then she doesn't step back and let him deal with the consequences. She cracks the whip and then she needs to be reassured. He, as a result, is getting more and more tired of her demands because she doesn't stick to them anyways. Plus, because she never leaves him room to actually step up, I can attest that yes, her insecurities are getting out of control. She just needs more and more reassurance, over sometimes really insignificant stuff.

 

I was trying to teach her the golden rule of stepping back and letting him come to her after a fight. She's incapable of doing that. They fight and she therefore contacts him contacts him contacts him. Once, he even asked her for time to think, she didn't respect that, left him a few messages and then was offended that he didn't call her back.

 

Its sad that her self esteem is so bad that she puts a R that isn't meeting her needs before her own happiness.

Keep the lines of communication open and encourage therapy- you are a good friend K.

 

I was thinking of meeting her for coffee, asking her for more details on how she is doing, ask her about the suicide attempt and listen to her speak about what she needs and what she wants now. Then I'll try to suggest that perhaps approaching a reconciliation with her mental well-being hanging in the balance will actually be detrimental to said reconciliation for both of them.

Edited October 19, 2009 by Kamille

[Ariadne]

Hey,

 

People are more likely to attempt suicide when they feel lonely and don't have anyone to talk to.

 

So being there to listen is the most important thing you can do. Hopefully they won't break up, at least not just yet.

[sb129]

. Then I'll try to suggest that perhaps approaching a reconciliation with her mental well-being hanging in the balance will actually be detrimental to said reconciliation for both of them.

 

This is very true.

 

Thanks for the golden rule reminder too, K. I need reminding of that myself sometimes- esp at the moment when I am not the most rational person on the planet. Harder when you live with someone!

[Kamille]

This is very true.

 

Thanks for the golden rule reminder too, K. I need reminding of that myself sometimes- esp at the moment when I am not the most rational person on the planet. Harder when you live with someone!

 

I hope everything's okay! And remind yourself that you're over nine months pregnant, so you're allowed a few moments of irrationality.

[sb129]

Try nearly TEN months pregnant! Not such an easy lady to live with right at this moment, but I am aware of it.

 

I have never been that great at walking away to let the air clear after a fight- but am getting better, as I can see the benefits of it.

[KismetGirl]

Hmmm. Sadly there isn't much you can do but just to be there for her. Supportive, but not enabling...there is a difference. More along the lines of "what can I do to help you feel better" as opposed to making decisions for her or telling her what she should do. You don't mention the extent of her prior attempt, but classically women moreso than men use suicide attempts as a cry for help, an attention plea, whereas men are more likely to go through with the act altogether. If she mentions it again, you ask her if she has a plan on how she will do it. If she starts giving you a detailed plan of how she will do it, I'd take her to a psychiatric ER immediately. I've had to do it before in my job, and I've had to do it with a friend. She hated me while we sat in the hospital until 11 in the morning with her being examined, but at least I didn't have to wake up to find out she'd really gone and walked in front of a bus like she'd been saying she was going to do all night.

 

Your friend sounds like a classic co-dependent. She needs a good therapist, but preferably one who has experience with extreme co-dependency. Unless she addresses that aspect of her mental health, she will NEVER have a happy or healthy relationship. Her boyfriend may not win bf of the year, but I suspect he does care for her or he wouldn't be sticking around. In a way he doesnt matter right now tho...the problem is with her. Co-dependent people are very difficult to deal with, they can be near suffocating, and if he is not the type he probably needs to breathe a little and in turn ends up provoking more fights with her in some sort of response to his own inner-resentment at the burden he feels. People want to be in a relationship out of their own desire to be with someone, not out of guilt. I don't doubt she has implied to him that she'd go hurt herself if he left her, and that is a big burden to have on someone in a relationship.

 

You might want to check out this website, and then have her check it out:

 

http://www.codependents.org/

 

or

 

http://www.healthfinder.gov/orgs/HR2422.htm

 

or

 

http://www.nmha.org/go/codependency

 

or

 

http://www.allaboutcounseling.com/codependency.htm

 

Not sure where you are located but there are meetings all over the world. Most are in America I think, but they've got online meetings as well. Hard to go on what youre giving us , what sort of patterns she's developed with regards to the depression and anxiety as a matter of determing what her other diagnoses may be, but likely she's depressed, anxious, insecure, maybe Bipolar (just throwing other things out there, as I said, I havent got much to go on, havent spoken to her or observed her emotional fluctuations over time, etc), and part of it is exhibiting itself via the manifestation of this intense codependency that she's obviously had for a long, long time.

 

Now, you don't want to become the substitute for her codepency however. You want to encourage ger individualism, which is what she is lacking. She doesn't see herself as worthy, she only sees herself as a contribution to a relationship as a whole, and without that, it's like she ceases to exist. God knows I couldnt begin to get into the roots of what that may be with what little youve said....but I've seen this sort of thing ALOT. It's especially prevelant in certain populations I work with like substance abusers, but it's quite common in the population as a whole, especially in women.

 

I think the best thing YOU personally can do for her is to make sure she knows that youa re there for her, that people love her for her no matter what, and focus on the things in her life that make HER a good person (eg- does she do anything well? her job? a talent? something unique to her). Always ask "what can i do to help you feel better" without doing it FOR her, but rather being a supportive element. Never tell her that her feelings are wrong, but don't validate them either. Encourage focus on her happiness and if she starts talking about how she's scared of getting back into that depression state, just do what you did before-- remind her that she got through it before and she can do it again. She may not totally believe it now, but I think she wants to, she just needs help to get to that level of confidence. The fact that she is willing to get therapy is really good, as many people don't even want to admit they need the help to begin with.

 

You're being a great friend, and she is lucky to have you be there for her. It is hard dealing with friends sometimes, but its worth it in the end. Hope that helps a little, good luck! If I can be of any further help please let me know.

[Kamille]

Thanks Kismetgirl for the great resources.

 

I saw her yesterday and we talked. I was relieved to find that she had somewhat stopped internalizing everything and was starting to see that he had his role to play in the fact that neither of them were really happy in the relationship. But she will then bring her back to herself by hoping he will somehow change for her (sigh) or that maybe he just won't change for her but would gladly change for someone else (sigh sigh).

 

Fortunately she is seeing a therapist tomorow and she will keep me posted. We talked and I am reassured and I asked her to keep me informed and to reach out if she was feeling down.

 

Her family does know what is going on. That's the thing, I feel like she does have some very healthy reflexes, which is probably why I'm perplexed by the talk of suicide. They've been calling her everyday. She's feeling guilty about worrying them and I told her that she shouldn't let that get in the way of getting the love and support she needs. I'm sure she's there for them when they need her (as she's always been there for me when I've needed her).

 

I'm a bit relieved, but she's kind of "not out of the woods" yet. I'm hoping the therapist will work out and will want to see her on a frequent basis. Adn I'm hoping she will realize you can't change a man - and that maybe she will decide for herself that this means she wants more then he can offer... And decide for herself that she wants to move on. (He's been all over the place lately, bailing out on her, cancelling plans, etc.)

[KismetGirl]

Thanks Kismetgirl for the great resources.

 

I saw her yesterday and we talked. I was relieved to find that she had somewhat stopped internalizing everything and was starting to see that he had his role to play in the fact that neither of them were really happy in the relationship. But she will then bring her back to herself by hoping he will somehow change for her (sigh) or that maybe he just won't change for her but would gladly change for someone else (sigh sigh).

 

Fortunately she is seeing a therapist tomorow and she will keep me posted. We talked and I am reassured and I asked her to keep me informed and to reach out if she was feeling down.

 

Her family does know what is going on. That's the thing, I feel like she does have some very healthy reflexes, which is probably why I'm perplexed by the talk of suicide. They've been calling her everyday. She's feeling guilty about worrying them and I told her that she shouldn't let that get in the way of getting the love and support she needs. I'm sure she's there for them when they need her (as she's always been there for me when I've needed her).

 

I'm a bit relieved, but she's kind of "not out of the woods" yet. I'm hoping the therapist will work out and will want to see her on a frequent basis. Adn I'm hoping she will realize you can't change a man - and that maybe she will decide for herself that this means she wants more then he can offer... And decide for herself that she wants to move on. (He's been all over the place lately, bailing out on her, cancelling plans, etc.)

 

Well its good that she's taking steps to get herself help, as alot of people won't even do that much. The suicide talk....well, as I said, you never want to trivialize it, but it isn't that surprising to me anymore to hear people at work tell me that. I always take it seriously but to be honest, alot of the time people can get depressed and lonely and in a fit of anxiety say things that they don't really intend to do. Either way, she seems like she's trying to get her head straight, and hopefully this therapist will help her to realize her existence shouldn't be based strictly on someone else (eg- the significant other). I think we've all been there at one point (though maybe not to that extent), but to the point where we couldnt imagine how we'd be happy without someone and then years later wonder why we ever bothered to feel that way. It's life, but some people have a harder time dealing with it than others do.

 

Keep doing what you're doing, you're being a great friend, and hopefully she gets her issues resolved! If this guys no good for her, then hopefully she'll see that, or maybe he'll change his own behaviour. Either way, her recovery should focus on her own self worth. Good luck to her...

[Kamille]

Thanks kismet.

 

Well - they broke up. He broke things off. It's perhaps bad of me to think this, but I am actually relieved that she can now move on. I just didn't really see them as being compatible.

 

She's taking it really hard. She had been trying really hard to save the relationship for so long that she's actually kind of trapped in that way of thinking: she wonders what more she could have done and why she wasn't enough for him. I stayed with her last night and would try to get her to recognize that this means that no matter what, they weren't compatible. That she shouldn't have had to put her self-esteem on the line so much, and shouldn't have had to try so hard to changer herself or change him. She sees it sometimes, but at others she goes into circular negative thinking. A part of it, I think, is that she is indeed codependent, and she feels like she is losing her life by losing him. She also idolizes him a lot, felt honored that he would choose her (yes he is a womanizer) and is inclined to take him breaking up with her as a blow to her self-worth.

 

Gah!

 

We talked about suicide (as she has actually attempted it in the past) and I've asked her to call me if ever she got herself so stuck that she started thinking about it again. Her parents are also trying as best they can to be involved.

[Trialbyfire]

You're a wonderful friend to support her through her crisis.

 

Just be careful she doesn't do a transference and create a codependency between the two of you. If she's feeling suicidal and calls you, you might want to set up a three-way call with a suicide hotline. This way, you can help her through it without taking 100% responsibility for her life.

[shadowplay]

I'm concerned about a friend of mine. She's aware that she's an insecure gf. She's been in a relationship with this guy for 6 months. Their relationship has been a roller coaster for as long as I've known her. I feel that they both participate in the fact that this relationship isn't healthy. He struggles to make time for her (for reasons I won't go into, but that I don't respect), which makes her insecure, which makes him want to spend less time with her. A pretty classic scenario.

 

She's been working on trying to be less insecure - but when they fight - ie, when he bails out on her- she kind of loses control of herself. I've been a witness to at least one fight and have heard about others. They're all about him not making her a priority in his life, with her being brought to question her own boundaries all the time. She's caught in a scenario where she does throw tantrums over insignificant stuff sometimes, but, IMO, that's only because some of her fundamental emotional needs are not being met.

 

I think her problem is that she doesn't leave him room to settle down when they fight. She doesn't give him time to take responsibility for his part in whatever fight they are having. She doesn't let him resolve the problems on his side of things. She wants to resolve the fight right away, so she'll throw a tantrum, then feel insecure, apologize and take responsibility for the whole thing.This ensures that they never actually get around to tackling their issues. And that she never takes the time to evaluate whether this relationship is actually what she wants.

 

He told her a few days ago that he lost faith in them and that he wants to break up. She was devastated, and, of course, then proceeded to convince him to stay. Many of us have made that mistake.

 

Now here is where I get concerned. I just spoke to her and she's basically put herself in the position where she will do anything for it to work out. She feels it's her responsibility to convince him that they should stay together. I've been there before and I know what a detrimental situation that can be, especially since it simply isn't clear to me that they will ever be compatible. He cannot offer her what she wants yet she refuses to accept that, because "she loves him".

 

We were talking about this and she said: "I don't care about my well being" to which I responded with a vehement "woah! that has to be your first priority, making sure that this relationship is healthy for you" to which she replied "you saw how devastated I was, I fear that if I feel that way I might kill myself". Turns out, she attempted suicide over her last break up, so she wants to do anything to avoid feeling that way again.

 

I'm definitely in over my head here. She does want to seek counsellling and I'm helping her find a therapist but, what would you do? How would you support a friend in this situation?

 

Wow, this girl sounds exactly like me. I don't think I can give you any advice because I'm still trying to figure out my own problems.

[KismetGirl]

Wow, this girl sounds exactly like me. I don't think I can give you any advice because I'm still trying to figure out my own problems.

 

Erm....that was....helpful....

[Kamille]

Wow, this girl sounds exactly like me. I don't think I can give you any advice because I'm still trying to figure out my own problems.

 

I actually thought about you as I was trying to figure out what she was going through and was hoping you could help me better understand.

 

I guess the thing that makes her depressed is that she somehow feels cursed or something. Plus she doesn't want to have to go through the pain of the heartbreak and is desperately looking for a way to skip it altogether.

 

I can understand that, but in my experience, accepting that it hurts is the only way through.

 

Honestly though, I'm proud of her so far. She's been doing pretty good, as far as I can tell. Her big thing right now is that it isn't fair that he gets to go on with his life as if nothing happened while she has to rebuild her social network (she would mostly hang out with his friends). She sees bleakness where I see opportunity.

 

I am an annoyingly optimistic person.

[Ariadne]

I'm proud of her so far. She's been doing pretty good, as far as I can tell.

I am an annoyingly optimistic person.

 

Sigh..

 

(Hopefully she is not trying to put on a show because you freaked out about her mentioning suicide, and still can confide and be open with you).

Edited October 25, 2009 by Ariadne

[shadowplay]

I actually thought about you as I was trying to figure out what she was going through and was hoping you could help me better understand.

 

I guess the thing that makes her depressed is that she somehow feels cursed or something. Plus she doesn't want to have to go through the pain of the heartbreak and is desperately looking for a way to skip it altogether.

 

I can understand that, but in my experience, accepting that it hurts is the only way through.

 

Honestly though, I'm proud of her so far. She's been doing pretty good, as far as I can tell. Her big thing right now is that it isn't fair that he gets to go on with his life as if nothing happened while she has to rebuild her social network (she would mostly hang out with his friends). She sees bleakness where I see opportunity.

 

I am an annoyingly optimistic person.

 

That part is something I can especially relate to! This is my biggest fear when it comes to losing my ex. Most of the people I hang out with are his friends/roommates. That network is totally dropping off now. If anything losing those connections are more painful than losing him.

 

I can completely relate to where you're coming from. I think when you're a shy person who has built your life around an SO it is really, really difficult to let go. People who have support networks to fall back on may not understand this.

 

I would also guess she is somebody who has trouble making new friends, so while other people may take "starting over" in stride she anticipates it with dread.

 

You need to bottle that optimism Kamille and give it to me and your friend!

[Kamille]

Sigh..

 

(Hopefully she is not trying to put on a show because you freaked out about her mentioning suicide, and still can confide and be open with you).

 

 

Well if the show includes curling into a ball and bawling her heart out, then I don't think that's what she's doing, but thanks for your concern Ariadne.

 

She's up and down and all over the place, which is normal. In the end though, she has to go through it, not me. So if she doesn't feel she can confide in me for whatever reason, that is really outside of my control. So far though, I don't feel that this is the case.

[Kamille]

I would also guess she is somebody who has trouble making new friends, so while other people may take "starting over" in stride she anticipates it with dread.

 

 

I've had to start my life over so many times that I forget how daunting it is (my parents moved a lot and I continued to move a lot after). Add the restlessness that comes with heartbreak to that and I guess I can understand her fears.

 

She is doing a lot though. I see her as social, funny and outgoing but I think she perceives herself as shy. It's funny, I recognize parts of my former (teenage) self in her. She sometimes acts like we're doing her a favor by hanging out with her, when really, she is wonderful to have around.

[Ariadne]

Well if the show includes curling into a ball and bawling her heart out...

 

(Ok, that sounds more normal. When you said she was doing pretty good I was surprised).