sally4sara Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 You've mixed up the Mormons with the Jehova's Witnesses. Mormons are the ones who really really really like sex and secretly really really really wish abortion could be an option for them. JH also doesn't buy into the original sin dogma.... So who is right and who is full of BS?(noooo, I do NOT mean betrayed spouse ) And why don't they have holy wars over it? And further, why are they not each blaming the down fall of mankind on the other(s) for the contradictions? Also....is everyone in agreement that they should be allowed to marry for not believing (for believing)? Couldn't they instead just say they were married and be happy with that? It all gets so confusing when you can't even tell the gender of your savior! Link to post Share on other sites
NoIDidn't Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 JH also doesn't buy into the original sin dogma.... So who is right and who is full of BS?(noooo, I do NOT mean betrayed spouse ) And why don't they have holy wars over it? And further, why are they not each blaming the down fall of mankind on the other(s) for the contradictions? Also....is everyone in agreement that they should be allowed to marry for not believing (for believing)? Couldn't they instead just say they were married and be happy with that? LOL. Not that I think it is anywhere on topic, but funny nonetheless. LOL. It all gets so confusing when you can't even tell the gender of your savior! Ummmm....the gender of the savior is known - he was a male. Lived as a man. The gender of the spirit god is the question. Which is really kinda redundant though, considering its known that "it" is a spirit. But of course, we humans even give spirits gender - consider succubus and incubus. LOL Link to post Share on other sites
sally4sara Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 Ummmm....the gender of the savior is known - he was a male. This only applies depending on who your god is. You are some sect of christian so it would be obvious male. But then if your dogma includes original sin and then it could be Mary and female really depending on how you look at it. Don't lets get started on Wiccans tho.....anything but that! Link to post Share on other sites
Toki Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 This only applies depending on who your god is. You are some sect of christian so it would be obvious male. But then if your dogma includes original sin and then it could be Mary and female really depending on how you look at it. Don't lets get started on Wiccans tho.....anything but that! Savior model has always typically been a male. Jesus, Krishna, Ahura Mazda, Osiris, Hercules... etc. Funny thing is, is that the Krishna/Jesus/Osiris trinity are all extremely close in idea, since all three were born of Virgin Birth, all three were supposedly the "savior", and all three died from betrayal. Link to post Share on other sites
sally4sara Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 Savior model has always typically been a male. Jesus, Krishna, Ahura Mazda, Osiris, Hercules... etc. Funny thing is, is that the Krishna/Jesus/Osiris trinity are all extremely close in idea, since all three were born of Virgin Birth, all three were supposedly the "savior", and all three died from betrayal. Moravians, Wiccans, and Druids would beg to differ, but you are right about what is "typical". So very, very typical. Book: "Her Image of Salvation" has some fun stuff on this topic. It isn't a platform for my believes however; I am atheist so none shall pass. Link to post Share on other sites
NoIDidn't Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 This only applies depending on who your god is. You are some sect of christian so it would be obvious male. But then if your dogma includes original sin and then it could be Mary and female really depending on how you look at it. Don't lets get started on Wiccans tho.....anything but that! LOL. Anything but that. I used to work with a Wiccan. I'm with you. LOL. Moravians, Wiccans, and Druids would beg to differ, but you are right about what is "typical". So very, very typical. Book: "Her Image of Salvation" has some fun stuff on this topic. It isn't a platform for my believes however; I am atheist so none shall pass. Because I actually had work to do, I tuned out my co-worker. Have any quotes from this work to share? I can't imagine what "her image of salvation" would be. Link to post Share on other sites
sally4sara Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 LOL. Anything but that. I used to work with a Wiccan. I'm with you. LOL. Because I actually had work to do, I tuned out my co-worker. Have any quotes from this work to share? I can't imagine what "her image of salvation" would be. It dealt with interpretations of some christian texts on Mary the mother and Mary Mags. The oddest was as a blending of christian teaching with Native American beliefs and the culmination being the Moravians. I remember a character named Sophia, the supposed mother to first a masculine Adam and then Jesus who was both. Jesus became two upon being crucified and the man half died leaving Jesus fully female. To them, maleness seem their "original sin" in that when Christ's male form died, so did the inner male of all humans enabling them to be capable of attaining heavens. Masculinity was a destructive force to humanity as it compelled humans to seek power. Really cool stuff as it was completely new to me. However, it holds as much credibility to me as the other faiths. Link to post Share on other sites
NoIDidn't Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 It dealt with interpretations of some christian texts on Mary the mother and Mary Mags. The oddest was as a blending of christian teaching with Native American beliefs and the culmination being the Moravians. I remember a character named Sophia, the supposed mother to first a masculine Adam and then Jesus who was both. Jesus became two upon being crucified and the man half died leaving Jesus fully female. To them, maleness seem their "original sin" in that when Christ's male form died, so did the inner male of all humans enabling them to be capable of attaining heavens. Masculinity was a destructive force to humanity as it compelled humans to seek power. Really cool stuff as it was completely new to me. However, it holds as much credibility to me as the other faiths. I guess, because I am Protestant, I really don't understand Marian doctrine AT ALL. Neither do I agree with it. But that's just the Protestant in me. LOL. Can I tell you that none of what you typed makes any sense to me? LOL. Jesus was dead on the Cross (being crucified) but only his "male" side died? Was it resurrected in three days too?! Since that is what we Christians believe. LOL. I will have to look up Moravians. They sound very interesting. Thanks for the info! Link to post Share on other sites
sally4sara Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 I guess, because I am Protestant, I really don't understand Marian doctrine AT ALL. Neither do I agree with it. But that's just the Protestant in me. LOL. Can I tell you that none of what you typed makes any sense to me? LOL. Jesus was dead on the Cross (being crucified) but only his "male" side died? Was it resurrected in three days too?! Since that is what we Christians believe. LOL. I will have to look up Moravians. They sound very interesting. Thanks for the info! Ahhh, its as hard to believe as the other unlikely stuff found in other faith based religions. One could say, the more unlikely the story, the greater ones faith has a chance at becoming. Perhaps they just have more faith than you. Link to post Share on other sites
NoIDidn't Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 Ahhh, its as hard to believe as the other unlikely stuff found in other faith based religions. One could say, the more unlikely the story, the greater ones faith has a chance at becoming. Perhaps they just have more faith than you. Perhaps, they do have more faith in their beliefs than I do. But I am certainly not going to argue with them about it how it doesn't make any sense to me (a non-believer of their beliefs). Does it really make sense to anyone that a man is killed but only his masculine side dies but his feminine side is still alive ? I can understand the logic behind Marian Catholics. They figure that if Jesus was the Son of God, then surely Mary is the Mother of God (even though the Bible doesn't say this at all). But I don't quite understand the logistics of a masculine side dying when the story goes on to include that he rose from the dead. Oh well. Interesting stuff, though. I haven't googled it yet, but will report back what I find! Link to post Share on other sites
sally4sara Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 Perhaps, they do have more faith in their beliefs than I do. But I am certainly not going to argue with them about it how it doesn't make any sense to me (a non-believer of their beliefs). Does it really make sense to anyone that a man is killed but only his masculine side dies but his feminine side is still alive ? I can understand the logic behind Marian Catholics. They figure that if Jesus was the Son of God, then surely Mary is the Mother of God (even though the Bible doesn't say this at all). But I don't quite understand the logistics of a masculine side dying when the story goes on to include that he rose from the dead. Oh well. Interesting stuff, though. I haven't googled it yet, but will report back what I find! Not trying to bust your chops if I'm making you raw. Your post just reminded me of the times child S4S would ask her sunday school teachers things like "If god knows everything, he had to know they'd eat of the tree! It doesn't make sense for him to put it around them." I'd get the whole: "well we wouldn't call it faith if it was so easy to believe silly! Now can we move on the the rest of the story or do you have any other blasphemes to utter?" Link to post Share on other sites
NoIDidn't Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 Not trying to bust your chops if I'm making you raw. Your post just reminded me of the times child S4S would ask her sunday school teachers things like "If god knows everything, he had to know they'd eat of the tree! It doesn't make sense for him to put it around them." I'd get the whole: "well we wouldn't call it faith if it was so easy to believe silly! Now can we move on the the rest of the story or do you have any other blasphemes to utter?" LOL. No you aren't busting MY chops. LOL. My kids have asked me the same thing. Its what kids do. I told my kids, it was a matter of obedience. My kids know where my car keys are. They know where I hide the candy. I tell them not to bother my things or face the consequences. To me, them eating the fruit of the forbidden tree was about the consequences. They knew the consequences and tried to hide from them. I don't think the OT was about faith, but about obedience, consequences to being disobedient, and pitting human nature against rules. You and I both know that rules were meant to be broken! Link to post Share on other sites
Toki Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 Moravians, Wiccans, and Druids would beg to differ, but you are right about what is "typical". So very, very typical. Book: "Her Image of Salvation" has some fun stuff on this topic. It isn't a platform for my believes however; I am atheist so none shall pass. Moravians = Wiccans = Druids = followed by a Although if we're talking Druidism, they didn't really have a savior model; although they did have somewhat of a trinity, and it would still be a masculine model ala Lugh. Wiccans, well the religion was founded by a sex fiend (Gardner) who admitted he enjoyed using his religion as a platform for enticing young girls into his home. Moravians, ugh, Moravians are still . Link to post Share on other sites
darkgold Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 God is generally known as a He out of old age convininece-most religions formed during a time when males were put on a higher pedestal than females, like Prince would be over a princess and a King would be over a queen. It is sexist yes, but religion had to appeal to the general public, not just the minority down to gender biased linguistics, and has come this way so far. Anyway nowadays we can afford to think out of the box-if we know better than we would would know that God needs no gender as God is perfection and does not carry the flaws of the genitilied one... Link to post Share on other sites
sally4sara Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 Moravians = Wiccans = Druids = followed by a I feel ya, christians of all flavors, muslim, scientology, whatever. all :rolleyes: the same to me. Link to post Share on other sites
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