We've reached the end of our journey

[sb129]

IG, don't rise to the bait.

 

((hugs))

[Lovin a scrapper]

IG, don't rise to the bait.

 

 

I so agree with this IG. No need to waste time and energy on such ignorance and insensitivity.

 

You are in my and Rayettes thoughts.

 

Huge hugs and love.

[Els]

do we even know if the guy was truly faithful all those years, though? Not really. Not if he is so willing to let it go like this, and make those comments, I seriously doubt it.

 

Nothing here tells us yet that you've even bothered to read up her past history even after RC recommended that you do.

 

IG, no need to defend what you had. Those of us who believe in you know it, and, more importantly, YOU know it. PC is evidently giving 'advice' in the teeny-high-school-crush frame of mind.

 

You've been a good part of my strength, through all the crushing blows that I've had to endure. I'll never forget how supportive you were through the time that my guy went silent on me, and I can only hope that I can return a tiny part of the favour now, when you're in need.

 

I hope you're feeling better, IG. *hugs*

[Maggs]

Dear IslandGirl--I can't begin to imagine your pain! I'm shocked, beyond belief to read this today. I was hoping for good news, but seeing as how it seemed so far off, I dreaded opening your msg. You truly are a pillar of strength and devotion on this board. Often times when things are rough in my own relationship, I think of you and know that if you can do it than surely I can too! I've looked towards you for strength and advice, as I know many dozens of women and men have. You truly are an inspiration for all of those struggling with the day to day, minute to minute desperation of an LDR.

 

I truly hope and pray that this is not the end for you and your beloved. I can't imagine the pain and stress he's undergone lately. It's quite possible that after everything, he can barely look after himself--let alone you and your relationship together. I know all about how hard words can hurt. I'm afraid too that one of these times, I won't recover the love that I feel for my fiance after an argument. I hope that through some miracle of fate and love, something positive will come to both of you. Whether it be apart or together, you both deserve happiness in the end. I hope with all my heart that it's for the both of you, together. Be strong, you have many friends here as you have so amply demonstrated your friendship to us. We're all rooting for you IG. Take care.

[sunflower89]

I'm sorry

[Kasan]

What we have endured and still remained together has only been because of a fantastic mutual love. The relationship could have not weathered the MANY previous storms otherwise.

 

In this world things happen. Tragic and terrible things. When they do people can be affected. They react differently to grief and the sadness. In the last 2 months he has lost 24 members of his immediate family. 19 of those were women and small children.

 

Unfortunately I can not reach out to him as he needs someone to right now. And in his time alone he has grown despondent and hopeless about us and about life in general. It all has simply become too hard to hold on to.

 

And perhaps your story isn't at the end that you think it is............

 

Could you perhaps table any major decisions about this marriage for a bit?

 

The fact that your husband is still standing after tragically losing 24 members of his immediate family (which makes them yours too) is something that I can't even begin to fathom.

 

To grow hopeless and despondent about your relationship and life seems like a logical step given the magnitude of this horrendous loss.

 

I understand your anger at his lashing out at you as you have been his rock forever, but surely as the strong compassionate women you are, you recognize his actions for what they are?

 

Would the Red Cross be willing to fly you over to your husband's country as an act of compassion?

 

Are there any agencies that would be willing to do this?

 

I don't know..............but I am really sorry to see the title of this thread and realize the thread was about something else.........other than your husband finally getting clearance to leave.

[Island Girl]

Thank you to all who have posted. Although I haven't posted in between your messages have given me strength - and you all have no idea how much your support has meant to me.

 

I have spoken with him a few times now. I will warn you before you continue they have not been productive AT ALL.

 

They have been very calm conversations for the most part.

 

Still very confused from his side of things however.

 

The first conversation he explained he has felt despondent about the paperwork and coming here for quite some time. (Yet he never bothered to discuss this with me??)

He went on to say that he doesn't feel he will ever come and that he has given up. Quite calmly he mentioned me filing divorce paperwork and will I be doing that here or should he do it there, etc.

 

I was quiet. I simply reiterated what he was saying and in the end said I understood what he was telling me and that now I had a lot to digest since he hadn't told me of any of this until now.

 

He called again about 24 hrs later and recanted everything he said. He then told me he does in fact still love me and never wants to be without me. He mentioned NOT filing divorce paperwork and to just move along from this as if nothing ever happened.

I expressed my confusion about him flipping AGAIN on this -- and that hesitation was met with the statement to forget he apologized at all and go back to the original idea of it being over.

I told him this conversation had left me even more astounded.

That is where it ended.

 

The next day, yesterday, again I received a call -- this one he began by acting as if nothing had happened.

When I sat silent he said very convincingly that, again, he was so sorry and that he never wants to lose me or be without me.

 

I believe, quite understandably, I am in a state of deep confusion about how I even feel at this point.

I expressed that to him - that I don't even know what to believe or think at this point. He immediately flipped the coin again and said that if I couldn't accept what he just said and move on that he'd change his phone number and I would no longer hear from him ever again.

I really almost laughed out loud. But I held my response to a calm statement of how in the same conversation he was saying two COMPLETELY different things back to back and that I didn't know what to believe and that he is obviously so confused HE doesn't even know what he feels or wants so how am I supposed to figure that out.

Well, that flipped it back again to a sincere sounding apology and he said he wants forgiveness.

 

Um -- yeah. I told him he was saying opposite things and he seemed to think that what he was doing could be just wiped away as if it never happened. That my feelings were unimportant and not even a consideration. I went on to say that I couldn't even process the phone call at that time. He tried to get back to a familiar communication - tried to engage me in an inside joke we share - to which I stated it was in no way anything that could be swept away but a serious matter.

He flipped again and told me that if I didn't talk seriously right then that he'd be getting on a boat for 6 months and I wouldn't be speaking with him.

With this information I happily said that it seemed a good idea and we'd talk after the 6 months. It would give both of us a chance to process all of this and reach our own conclusions about all of it. (I was quite serious about that as I feel I have been a ping pong ball now and I just don't need anymore of these back and forth conversations.)

 

Well that wasn't well received and again the threats loomed of changing his number and not being reachable "ever again" - that we talk now or the 6 months can be considered as "forever" as in never speaking again.

This time he added he didn't care if I filed papers here because he would file there anyway.

He said he was coming from a place of forgiving and forgetting and if I couldn't do that then it's over.

 

I gave some sort of a reply of being in more of a state of confusion.

The call ended with him saying I need to figure out whatever it is and call him when I am ready to talk.

 

SO LSers. What the hell? Anyone have any thoughts? All are welcome.

[MindoverMatter]

Rethought on post, decided I don't know enough to judge.

Edited October 23, 2009 by MindoverMatter

[Maggs]

IslandGirl--I'm tending to be in the mindset that this wishy-washiness on his part is all down to his depression in what's happened at home and the stresses of immigration. He sounds as if he's trying so hard to hold on but at the same time, he's giving you the option of saying yes I'll file for a divorce because he doesn't want to drag you down with him and he feels (as most men do!) that he's hardly a good husband or a provider in the state of mind that he's in. So he's trying to give you an easy out. In any other country, he'd be better off seeing a psychologist, having some counselling and getting on some antidepressants maybe. I'm not sure if he has these facilities available to him in his country, but he sounds very depresed.

 

I'm not saying this is an excuse to allow him to say the things he does, but I really do think that he's just so far down, he can't pull himself up again and that he doesn't want to pull you down anymore. I can't imagine how he must feel.

 

It's a real shame you both can't get together for a meeting somewhere, even at a mutual place. Like Australia, or New Zealand. Not his country, not yours. And just reconnect. It's so easy to be despondent and depressed and so willing to let go of a relationship when you haven't seen each other, have that physical love and affection that you get when you reconnect. Is there any possibility of this...even small?

 

I could be feeling like this too because I'm rooting for things to work out for you IG. I really do want things to end up good for you. I pray something works out for you. It's been a long, hard road for you both and I'd hate to see you give it up without trying 1000%!!

 

Take care.

[TMichaels]

Island Girl,

 

I can see why you're confused and more than a bit frustrated with him. But, what started all this in the first place?

 

I know that conversation is/was private and you have chosen not to get into details which is certainly your right, but it's kind off difficult for an outsider to judge what's going on now when he/she doesn't know what precipitated all this.

 

However, based on what you *have* shared...

 

So, he says he's been feeling down about the whole immigration process for some time now. Take yourself out of the equation for a moment, and put yourself in his shoes. Wouldn't you be as well?

 

This immigration thing has dragged on for years, he's living in poverty, suffering himself medically, and most recently had to go through an unfathomable number of deaths in his own family.

 

I'm not saying this whole thing hasn't exactly been a lark for you. I'm just saying that the recent spate of deaths may have been a tipping point for him in terms of realizing that mere mortals are powerless in changing what happens in their lives -- and that feeling of hopelessness is permeating his outlook about everything -- including the two of you.

 

Sometimes when people are hurting -- especially that bad -- all they want is the pain and suffering to stop. So, they will do *anything* including "throwing the baby out with the bathwater," if you will, because it seems like the only thing they have left that they can control -- and what difference does it make anyway, when you've lost all hope?

 

I don't know what he said to you initially that kicked this all off, but obviously it cut you to the core. I'm not saying that you shouldn't have been hurt and upset about all of that, but on the other hand I wonder if it's coloring you perception to the point that you are taking everything very personally, when I think a lot of your husband's behavior right now really "isn't about you."

 

For example, when he most recently told you that he had been despondent about the whole immigration process and moving to the U.S. for some time, that was news to you and certainly a shock. But in the back of your mind did you take that comment as him being further critical of you?

 

IOW, he made a statement about how he has been feeling, and your mind immediately snapped back to a former comment he made about "You not doing enough" when it came to this immigration thing which felt like he was just twisting the knife that he had already planted there?

 

If that's the case, though I can see why you would feel that way, I think you need to be careful that you're not focusing too much on "it's all about you." Because, quite honestly, I don't think that's what's going on with your husband at all -- I think he's about at the end of his rope -- he's not the only one hurting and confused.

 

As far as your most recent conversations...

 

It sounds to me that he knows he messed up, admitted that and that wasn't good enough for you so he flip-flopped in anger and frustration.

 

He flip-flopped again as ending the relationship isn't really what he wants, tried to express his regret about what he said/did before, threw in a little joke that you share in hopes of breaking the ice and melting the cold wall you've thrown up, and you re-buffed him again.

 

He threw out whatever he could to try and convince you he is serious -- threats of filing divorce papers, changing his phone number, leaving on a boat for six months, etc. And, you were immovable in your position.

 

He told you *again* that he was coming to the conversation from a contrite position and wanted to get past what had happened -- and you told him you couldn't do that (at least not now) as you were still hurt confused.

 

In total frustration, he threw up his hands and in effect has said: "I've done everything I can think of to say I am sorry, and that's not good enough for you. So fine. I give up. The ball's in your court. I'm not calling anymore. When you get your own head sorted, *you call me.*"

 

To be honest, I don't know that I blame him. He probably feels he's tried everything he can think of to apologize and once again, he's powerless to change the situation. About the only option left anyone has in that situation is to simply give up and walk away.

 

IG, don't get the impression that I am saying *your* needs and feelings* don't matter -- they are just as important or valid as anyone else's, including your husband's.

 

But, in the course of a relationship, there may be imbalances -- i.e. one person may need more support at the moment than the other -- it's not always a simultaneous 50/50-type thing. But, if the relationship is a good one, when the opposite partner needs support, in time the scales balance out.

 

I guess what I am saying is that it might behoove you to try to sort out what is being said and decide whether your usual stance of "standing firm" is going to be productive here.

 

Some or much of what is going on may very well *not* be "all about you" -- and as long as you take it that way, you two are going to be at loggerheads and will continue to destroy all that you had.

 

That's my take given what you've shared. Hope some of it is helpful.

 

All the best,

TMichaels

[Island Girl]

Island Girl,

 

I can see why you're confused and more than a bit frustrated with him. But, what started all this in the first place?

 

He had needed a considerable amount of support in all ways for the last several weeks.

Yet another "need" arose that I could not assist with at that point and this was explained to him.

 

He threw a tantrum -- a HUGE tantrum because I said I couldn't help right then and he thought I should be able to drop any responsibilities on my side and fix it all. It was during this fit that he lost his mind and called everything I have ever done into question along the lines of me not doing enough for him while telling me HE would do so much more if he was in my position.

 

I know that conversation is/was private and you have chosen not to get into details which is certainly your right, but it's kind off difficult for an outsider to judge what's going on now when he/she doesn't know what precipitated all this.

 

I realize the devil is in the details. All out there who know my story should understand this was MAJOR. No small thing -- no unreasonable miniscule detail in the grand scheme of things.

 

It was BEDROCK shaking.

 

So, he says he's been feeling down about the whole immigration process for some time now. Take yourself out of the equation for a moment, and put yourself in his shoes. Wouldn't you be as well?

 

This immigration process is happening to both of us. One has had to wait - no pressure to do the work but a never changing wait only getting updates by the partner -- the other, responsible for ALL of it, and waiting as well but able to see small progress firsthand.

 

I think all things considered there are hardships on both sides and neither one gets a "pass" due to difficulty.

 

I'm sure it has been difficult for him. I know it has been damn difficult for me to continue to fight so hard and with every kick in the face get up and do it all over again.

Both of us signed up for this as it is - and understood it was for the long haul. No matter what has happened it is the one "untouchable".

 

I had never gone there no matter what has happened and there has been a lot -- to that place to cause him to doubt me in the least. He did and in a very very big way.

 

This immigration thing has dragged on for years, he's living in poverty, suffering himself medically, and most recently had to go through an unfathomable number of deaths in his own family.

 

I have also supplemented his stay there and alleviated his needs medically and in every other way for the last 7 years. He has known he can depend upon me and I have never backed away from that part of things.

 

Nor have I ever turned around and demanded things from him that I know he can't give.

 

I demand the same courtesy that if I say "I can't" having never done so it would be accepted that it is the truth and understood as such with no tantrum about it. Simply understanding is the least consideration that I deserve I think.

 

He is aware there are limitations we now have here. I have always informed him of the state of affairs in every way.

Apparently all of that went out the window at some point who knows when.

 

I'm not saying this whole thing hasn't exactly been a lark for you. I'm just saying that the recent spate of deaths may have been a tipping point for him in terms of realizing that mere mortals are powerless in changing what happens in their lives -- and that feeling of hopelessness is permeating his outlook about everything -- including the two of you.

 

Yes it very well might have been. I'm not sure.

 

Certainly if I listen to him -- to one half of what he said at least -- he has been feeling this for at least the last 6 months. That is before the tragedies in the last two months.

I have a certain amount of anger when I think about this -- because he not only didn't share this with me in order to address it in some way but he has had no problem turning to me for assistance in every single way as always.

 

THAT little tidbit called into question every conversation we have had since then. Was he thinking it when such and such happened? Or this? Or that?

If so then how can I believe he means what he says at any time? And if all I have is trust in his words - how the hell am I supposed to trust in them or believe in them now?

 

Sometimes when people are hurting -- especially that bad -- all they want is the pain and suffering to stop. So, they will do *anything* including "throwing the baby out with the bathwater," if you will, because it seems like the only thing they have left that they can control -- and what difference does it make anyway, when you've lost all hope?

 

There is the conundrum. There is pain and suffering the last 2 months to be sure. He says it has been long before that as well.

So is it the hopelessness from tragedies or is it a gnawing doubt on his side that he simply has chosen not to talk to me about until it got too big to handle?

I have no idea.

 

I don't know what he said to you initially that kicked this all off, but obviously it cut you to the core. I'm not saying that you shouldn't have been hurt and upset about all of that, but on the other hand I wonder if it's coloring you perception to the point that you are taking everything very personally, when I think a lot of your husband's behavior right now really "isn't about you."

 

It sure isn't. It is all about him. Apparently it has been for quite some time. I am not in the equation at this point.

 

Things that are said that are hurtful to me and to our relationship are just expected to be dismissed in the blink of an eye.

 

Our entire relationship has been put into a grinder - by him - and my feelings should just go back to normal in an instant and I should be back to where I was -- willing and doing everything possible for us and him with the same minimal expectations I have always had.

 

You see, I have known there are things he simply can not do from there. I don't ask him for things he can not do. I ask for appreciation of what we have and the expectation of both of us not to make things harder for the other than they have to be. I ask for that in our conversations since that is all we have to hold on to.

He quickly threw that out the door and let me know that not only was he saying it but had been thinking of it without discussion for quite some time.

 

For example, when he most recently told you that he had been despondent about the whole immigration process and moving to the U.S. for some time, that was news to you and certainly a shock. But in the back of your mind did you take that comment as him being further critical of you?

 

No. Not critical of me at all since I know I have done everything humanly possible.

I did take it as a kick in the head that everything I have worked my butt off for the last 3 years is being discarded so easily with no recognition of how much has been done and how little there really is left.

 

I felt like we've been running a 10k, and signed up as partners, but he has been in a side car cheering me on because that is all he can do, and I have been running my heart out believing we'd get to the finish line. All I need to keep going is his encouragement and he certainly has mine too. But we got to the 9 mile mark, stopped for water, and he said, "um, I'm getting kinda tired of sitting next to you and cheering you on".

 

If that's the case, though I can see why you would feel that way, I think you need to be careful that you're not focusing too much on "it's all about you." Because, quite honestly, I don't think that's what's going on with your husband at all -- I think he's about at the end of his rope -- he's not the only one hurting and confused.

 

He isn't the only one hurting and confused. Unfortunately now I am right there with him.

His hurt and confusion has come from his own head and outside circumstances.

My hurt and confusion came directly from him.

 

It sounds to me that he knows he messed up, admitted that and that wasn't good enough for you so he flip-flopped in anger and frustration.

 

He flip-flopped again as ending the relationship isn't really what he wants, tried to express his regret about what he said/did before, threw in a little joke that you share in hopes of breaking the ice and melting the cold wall you've thrown up, and you re-buffed him again.

 

He threw out whatever he could to try and convince you he is serious -- threats of filing divorce papers, changing his phone number, leaving on a boat for six months, etc. And, you were immovable in your position.

 

He told you *again* that he was coming to the conversation from a contrite position and wanted to get past what had happened -- and you told him you couldn't do that (at least not now) as you were still hurt confused.

 

In total frustration, he threw up his hands and in effect has said: "I've done everything I can think of to say I am sorry, and that's not good enough for you. So fine. I give up. The ball's in your court. I'm not calling anymore. When you get your own head sorted, *you call me.*"

 

To be honest, I don't know that I blame him. He probably feels he's tried everything he can think of to apologize and once again, he's powerless to change the situation. About the only option left anyone has in that situation is to simply give up and walk away.

 

Under the circumstances with what has been said and weeks going by with nothing - a simple "I'm sorry" just isn't going to immediately fix everything.

 

I even went so far as to simply say - without reacting when to tell you the truth I wanted to scream at him to quit playing with my head - that this wasn't a GAME - but our relationship and him calling into question everything including my faith in him as a partner WORTH doing all of this for, etc.

I simply said that in light of what he had said to me just the day before, with the added disclosure of how long he'd been thinking that (at least 6 months) that I needed time to reconcile this and I simply was in too much shock to process the flip flopping.

 

Someone who is truly sorry and has ANY idea how they have effected the other half of their relationship would at the very least understand that the other person may indeed need to catch their breath and may be reeling from the blows most recently received.

 

I wasn't immediately accepting. To be honest I now doubt the sincerity of anything he has to say both good and bad.

I simply just don't know what to believe anymore.

It is what he created.

 

IG, don't get the impression that I am saying *your* needs and feelings* don't matter -- they are just as important or valid as anyone else's, including your husband's.

 

I know TM. I know you are pretty clear headed and you don't tend to rush to fast to judgment.

 

But, in the course of a relationship, there may be imbalances -- i.e. one person may need more support at the moment than the other -- it's not always a simultaneous 50/50-type thing. But, if the relationship is a good one, when the opposite partner needs support, in time the scales balance out.

 

You are right -- there is usually a swinging of the pendulum in most areas.

 

Our one area of mutual support is emotional. It was accepted that he can't offer support due to circumstances in all of the other ways.

 

That is why this is sacred ground. It has been well understood by both of us that this is so.

What I have clung to - that has been my source of strength through any of this is that knowledge that we are there for each other in that way.

In an instant what I held onto was changed from rock solid to vapor.

 

I am at a loss right now as to the validity of what is only briefly put in front of me as solid again especially when I say I need to take a good look at it -- it is yanked away and replaced again by the vapor.

 

I guess what I am saying is that it might behoove you to try to sort out what is being said and decide whether your usual stance of "standing firm" is going to be productive here.

 

Some or much of what is going on may very well *not* be "all about you" -- and as long as you take it that way, you two are going to be at loggerheads and will continue to destroy all that you had.

 

That's just it. I asked only for a chance to sort it out. To have even a moment to reconcile it in my head. Possibly to revisit it in another conversation.

 

I am, to put it quite simply, stunned. And in stating that the back and forth conversations were at best confusing I get another threat of the paperwork with this time the icing on top in the form of "I'll never talk to you again".

That to me just doesn't say "I understand what I am doing to you - have done to you or to us - and I am thinking about you" in any way shape or form.

 

It seems he is concentrating on himself - how he feels - his needs - etc.

 

It appears I haven't been in consideration for quite sometime. Certainly I haven't been considered in the last 6 months that he has been questioning the paperwork and the wait. Certainly I am not present in his thoughts now about what is coming out of his mouth and how it must sound or effect me.

 

*sigh* I just have no idea what to believe or how to gauge sincerity anymore. So much has been called into question. I simply can't reconcile it especially when he seems to think that I should just jump at the "I'm sorry" and easily forget all of this. Would that it were that easy. Unfortunately what goes through my head is "if and when this is going to happen again and what am I investing so much in here - if it is all so easily dismissed then what am I really holding onto?"

 

That's my take given what you've shared. Hope some of it is helpful.

 

All the best,

TMichaels

 

It is -- things to think about and certainly answering the questions help.

 

 

Maggs -- there is no chance right now of there being a meet up. It is simply a catch 22 at this point. Damned if I do -- and damned if I don't.

One alleviates the picture as it is now (possibly) while doing that will definitely delay his ability to come right away if his visa comes through. I'm at a loss.

[northstar1]

Thank you to all who have posted. Although I haven't posted in between your messages have given me strength - and you all have no idea how much your support has meant to me.

 

I have spoken with him a few times now. I will warn you before you continue they have not been productive AT ALL.

 

They have been very calm conversations for the most part.

 

Still very confused from his side of things however.

 

The first conversation he explained he has felt despondent about the paperwork and coming here for quite some time. (Yet he never bothered to discuss this with me??)

He went on to say that he doesn't feel he will ever come and that he has given up. Quite calmly he mentioned me filing divorce paperwork and will I be doing that here or should he do it there, etc.

 

I was quiet. I simply reiterated what he was saying and in the end said I understood what he was telling me and that now I had a lot to digest since he hadn't told me of any of this until now.

 

He called again about 24 hrs later and recanted everything he said. He then told me he does in fact still love me and never wants to be without me. He mentioned NOT filing divorce paperwork and to just move along from this as if nothing ever happened.

I expressed my confusion about him flipping AGAIN on this -- and that hesitation was met with the statement to forget he apologized at all and go back to the original idea of it being over.

I told him this conversation had left me even more astounded.

That is where it ended.

 

The next day, yesterday, again I received a call -- this one he began by acting as if nothing had happened.

When I sat silent he said very convincingly that, again, he was so sorry and that he never wants to lose me or be without me.

 

I believe, quite understandably, I am in a state of deep confusion about how I even feel at this point.

I expressed that to him - that I don't even know what to believe or think at this point. He immediately flipped the coin again and said that if I couldn't accept what he just said and move on that he'd change his phone number and I would no longer hear from him ever again.

I really almost laughed out loud. But I held my response to a calm statement of how in the same conversation he was saying two COMPLETELY different things back to back and that I didn't know what to believe and that he is obviously so confused HE doesn't even know what he feels or wants so how am I supposed to figure that out.

Well, that flipped it back again to a sincere sounding apology and he said he wants forgiveness.

 

Um -- yeah. I told him he was saying opposite things and he seemed to think that what he was doing could be just wiped away as if it never happened. That my feelings were unimportant and not even a consideration. I went on to say that I couldn't even process the phone call at that time. He tried to get back to a familiar communication - tried to engage me in an inside joke we share - to which I stated it was in no way anything that could be swept away but a serious matter.

He flipped again and told me that if I didn't talk seriously right then that he'd be getting on a boat for 6 months and I wouldn't be speaking with him.

With this information I happily said that it seemed a good idea and we'd talk after the 6 months. It would give both of us a chance to process all of this and reach our own conclusions about all of it. (I was quite serious about that as I feel I have been a ping pong ball now and I just don't need anymore of these back and forth conversations.)

 

Well that wasn't well received and again the threats loomed of changing his number and not being reachable "ever again" - that we talk now or the 6 months can be considered as "forever" as in never speaking again.

This time he added he didn't care if I filed papers here because he would file there anyway.

He said he was coming from a place of forgiving and forgetting and if I couldn't do that then it's over.

 

I gave some sort of a reply of being in more of a state of confusion.

The call ended with him saying I need to figure out whatever it is and call him when I am ready to talk.

 

SO LSers. What the hell? Anyone have any thoughts? All are welcome.

 

IG, I tend to fall on the sometimes overly 'practical' side of things in life, so my viewpoints may differ here.

 

Sometimes in life, there comes a time when you just have to say "That's it" and walk away.

 

Love is a wonderful thing, and you've had something very special that I think none of us on this board could have endured and supported for as long as you did.

 

But, sometimes, love is just not enough. Sometimes you go past that line in the sand where you can't go back again.

 

Whatever his reasons are for his irrational behaviour (tiredness, having experienced more suffering than one person should, sickness, despair etc), this sort of reaction and lashing out at the one person who has been a rock to him for years is not something that YOU should be expected to accept and forget so easily.

 

At some point, in all of this, you need to look out for yourself and your wellbeing (emotionally, physically etc).

 

I certainly am not trying to be the harbinger of pessimissm, just a different viewpoint.

Ultimately, I think all of us on here just want you to be happy IG, with whatever route you take.

[MindoverMatter]

I second northstar's point of view.

 

Whatever his reasons, you need to happy with the life you live. And right now, you're clearly not.

 

If I were you, I'd spend a couple of days somewhere else, make a mini holiday, go visit friends etc. Break out of the usual routine and figure out what you need.

 

He doesn't take your needs into consideration. So you should be all the more careful not to forget them.

[Island Girl]

Love is a wonderful thing, and you've had something very special that I think none of us on this board could have endured and supported for as long as you did.

 

But, sometimes, love is just not enough. Sometimes you go past that line in the sand where you can't go back again.

 

I've been wobbling with this northstar - so much of me is just feeling I am at my wits end - shaken so deeply that I simply can not get back to where I used to be.

 

There have been moments within the last few weeks where I take a step back and still feel I need to just do more - but even with those thoughts I just can't bring myself to do so when I am not being given any reason to believe my emotional safety isn't at extreme risk by doing so.

 

I'll think for a split second about how difficult his situation is but in that second I will also think about how difficult my situation has been - and in 7 years I have supported myself and HIM, provided what extras that have come up for him, have sacrificed so much to continue this relationship only to have what little I get back -- the only thing he really CAN give in return which are words - not only denied but replaced with such hurtful things instead.

 

I'm sure that sounds like psycho babble.

 

Whatever his reasons are for his irrational behaviour (tiredness, having experienced more suffering than one person should, sickness, despair etc), this sort of reaction and lashing out at the one person who has been a rock to him for years is not something that YOU should be expected to accept and forget so easily.

 

This is how I am feeling northstar.

 

That I have accepted borderline abusive conversations ongoing and then to add insult to injury our relationship is quickly discarded while telling me this has been thought about for quite awhile. That cut to the bone in many ways it is a complete betrayal.

 

At some point, in all of this, you need to look out for yourself and your well being (emotionally, physically etc).

 

I certainly am not trying to be the harbinger of pessimissm, just a different viewpoint.

Ultimately, I think all of us on here just want you to be happy IG, with whatever route you take.

 

I do appreciate it. I really do.

 

Thank you so much. So very very much.

[Trialbyfire]

IG, I think he's curled up in a fetal ball, sheltering himself from all the hurt and pain, pushing everyone out of this safe womb he's created for himself.

 

He did try to reach out to you but you're also self-protecting now, since his lashing out, has hurt you to the core.

 

((hugs))

[GorillaTheater]

IG, I think he's curled up in a fetal ball, sheltering himself from all the hurt and pain, pushing everyone out of this safe womb he's created for himself.

 

He did try to reach out to you but you're also self-protecting now, since his lashing out, has hurt you to the core.

 

((hugs))

 

I agree with TBF. That's why I remain optimistic that, once both of you push through the pain, there remains a chance to work this out.

[Maggs]

Ok, I have a question for you. After all the years of hope and heartache you've gone through together, could you say hand on heart, 100% that if you walked away you wouldn't have any regrets? Because if you walked away and regretted it afterwards, you may never have a chance to get back. That's something you both need to really do some soul searching on.

 

And also...this isn't a decision that can be made in a few days. You both need time alone quietly to think and time to talk together, when feelings have calmed down. This is not an easy thing to think of and you should take lots of time to decide.

Edited October 23, 2009 by Maggs

[Ariadne]

If so then how can I believe he means what he says at any time? And if all I have is trust in his words - how the hell am I supposed to trust in them or believe in them now?

 

I think that when he goes nice and wants to make up, is because he is afraid of what you can do to him.

 

I think he wants to check out of this deal and disappear.

 

I wouldn't even be surprised if he has family over there.

[Island Girl]

I think that when he goes nice and wants to make up, is because he is afraid of what you can do to him.

 

What I can do to him? He knows me well enough that he knows I wouldn't DO anything to him.

He has no problem being an extremely hurtful jackass right now - believe me he doesn't fear me in any way, shape, or form.

 

I wouldn't even be surprised if he has family over there.

 

While appreciate the thoughts he doesn't have a family over there. I do know this for an absolute fact. There is no possibility at all.

[Island Girl]

Ok, I have a question for you. After all the years of hope and heartache you've gone through together, could you say hand on heart, 100% that if you walked away you wouldn't have any regrets? Because if you walked away and regretted it afterwards, you may never have a chance to get back. That's something you both need to really do some soul searching on.

 

I am not sure. I am trying to take time to process what has happened and now what seems to be happening.

 

It seems he is so within himself he can't even see what this all has done on my side of things.

 

I feel like I am looking at the situation, his behavior of late, and all of the circumstances while trying to weigh it all and see as much as I can from all sides.

 

And from what I see he is looking at his own situation only and only cares about what he is saying or thinking at any given time. He can't even hear my request for a bit of time to just think.

 

And also...this isn't a decision that can be made in a few days. You both need time alone quietly to think and time to talk together, when feelings have calmed down. This is not an easy thing to think of and you should take lots of time to decide.

 

Yes. I agree. There is no rush in deciding anything.

 

And I would like time to think. I would like to avoid roller coaster phone calls and just breathe for a time.

 

I was dead serious when he said he was going on a ship for 6 months that I suggested we'll talk after that then.

Plenty of time away from the ups and downs and a true understanding of what it is like without each other.

He wasn't hearing it and since I didn't react the way he wanted I doubt he'll be going anywhere. Who knows he could surprise me. *sigh*

[marlena]

Sometimes in life, there comes a time when you just have to say "That's it" and walk away.

 

I am with North on this one, IG. It may well be time to finally let this go. You have put your life on hold for far too long. This is no way to live.

 

Unless the two of you can be together immediately, I would consider letting it go, however reluctantly, however hard it is to do. And I know how hard it can be.

[PinkToes]

I am so sorry to hear this. My ex and I split for much the same combination of reasons, and it is heartbreaking to know it's the situation and not your commitment or feelings that got in the way. We still love each other too, but it isn't enough, I know. I'm so sorry for what you're going through.

[Ariadne]

What I can do to him? He knows me well enough that he knows I wouldn't DO anything to him.

 

Well, in the case that he never wanted to live with you in America and he just wanted you to support him for 7 years, if you knew that were the case, he'd imagine you'd probably be upset.

 

He has no problem being an extremely hurtful jackass right now - believe me he doesn't fear me in any way, shape, or form.

 

That is because he wants you to dump him.

 

That's why all the "accidents" that he had lately were things that made him ugly. Like the time he was on the way to the embassy and had an accident and broke all his front teeth, and then had to get some other 25 teeth extracted.

 

All these accidents of late that cost a lot of money I imagine, where he didn't care to conceal his eagerness and demand.

 

That is probably because the show was over and he didn't care to play sweet to you anymore, instead, he wanted you to give him the money and go.

 

While appreciate the thoughts he doesn't have a family over there. I do know this for an absolute fact. There is no possibility at all.

 

You always said that he was a very handsome, charming man living in a tropical island. With the scarcity of men there is, I would be surprised.

[Island Girl]

Well, in the case that he never wanted to live with you in America and he just wanted you to support him for 7 years, if you knew that were the case, he'd imagine you'd probably be upset.

 

He never wanted me to support him for 7 years Ariadne.

 

That is because he wants you to dump him.

 

Possibly. Seems strange then when that is approached there is still flip flopping on his side and now messages from our family there...

 

That's why all the "accidents" that he had lately were things that made him ugly. Like the time he was on the way to the embassy and had an accident and broke all his front teeth, and then had to get some other 25 teeth extracted.

 

That didn't happen.

 

There was a car accident weeks before he ended up going to his interview where his two front teeth were knocked out and he had a severe concussion.

 

I'm sure HE feels that has made him ugly. I know teeth can be replaced both temporarily and permanently.

I also know that during a lifetime people's looks and even physical abilities can change. One must be prepared to accept those changes if you are prepared for "forever".

 

That is probably because the show was over and he didn't care to play sweet to you anymore, instead, he wanted you to give him the money and go.

 

I will not deny that his behavior is strange and different.

 

However, he has never PLAYED SWEET Ariadne. There has been no "show". If that is what had been going on how easy would it be to continue the act?

Even now no one doubts the sincerity of his actions during our relationship.

It is specifically BECAUSE of that sincerity (present for so long and well known to all) that there is a noticeable difference in the last few weeks.

 

You always said that he was a very handsome, charming man living in a tropical island. With the scarcity of men there is, I would be surprised.

 

There is a scarcity of men? Not there. (But I don't see a scarcity here either.)

And where he is there is no scarcity of those that are handsome as well.

 

My husband IS generally very charming. That is yet another thing that has changed and all have noticed. In these last few weeks he has been "dark" and not his usual talkative self either.

[Island Girl]

I am so sorry to hear this. My ex and I split for much the same combination of reasons, and it is heartbreaking to know it's the situation and not your commitment or feelings that got in the way. We still love each other too, but it isn't enough, I know. I'm so sorry for what you're going through.

 

Thank you PinkToes.

 

At this point there really is no decision. And I just don't feel like making one in haste. I just want to shelve it for a little while and get my head clear.

 

He obviously needs to clear his head as well.

I just wish he do that instead of giving any more flip flop phone calls that scramble my brain.

 

May I PM you -- do you mind sharing a bit more about your situation? Since it is very similar I think it may help me continue to get my ducks in a row so to speak.