NowhereToHide Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 Fallen Angel - good for you! Ok everyone. there will be a huge moment of silence when i say this...BUT.... so as hard as this NC thing is, and as much as i miss him, im starting to see the leopard for his spots AND I do feel better being out of that OW position. the three years i spent there left me bruised and battered. i was a strong woman before this and maybe i can be again. (ok now dont be surprised when i'm crying my pitiful eyes out again in a few minutes) OH MY GOD! I am jumping up and down right now! BEG!!!! You go girl! Okay, do you realize what this is??? It is the first step for you! Seeing him not as this perfect man, this soulmate, but for a fallible person -- someone that is human and wouldn't be the "everything" you made him out to be. YAY! And yes, you will again cry your eyes out. No doubt. But this is a HUGE step for you!!!! Link to post Share on other sites
scatterd Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 (edited) For a person that wants to get along you should pratice what you preach. Edited October 20, 2009 by scatterd Link to post Share on other sites
Author Fallen Angel Posted October 20, 2009 Author Share Posted October 20, 2009 For a person that wants to get along you should pratice what you preach. I am unsure what you mean, I thought I was being very respectful, if I have not, please point it out to me with an example so that I can try to do better in the future. Link to post Share on other sites
scatterd Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 Thank you thats a start Link to post Share on other sites
Author Fallen Angel Posted October 20, 2009 Author Share Posted October 20, 2009 Thank you thats a start Scatterd, I am serious when I ask you to point out to me an example of where I was out of line or rude to someone. I really am trying to be a better me, but since I think that I have been fair and respectful, and you obviously do not think I have, please give me an example of what you see that I am not seeing in myself. Without knowing what I have said that was wrong, I will not know how to go about offering my opinion in a more helpful way in the future. I really want this to be a place where everyone feels comfortable being completly honest and feel that they can post whatever they are feeling without fear of "flaming". ESPECIALLY without fear of that from me! I appreciate any input you have in this so that I can better myself to be able to be more helpful to the next poster and to apologize to anyone I may have wronged. Thanks! ~~FA Link to post Share on other sites
bluegreen12 Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 I really want this to be a place where everyone feels comfortable being completly honest and feel that they can post whatever they are feeling without fear of "flaming". ESPECIALLY without fear of that from me! ~~FA If I say exactly what I feel about women like you who sleep with married man, I will be banned from this board. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Fallen Angel Posted October 20, 2009 Author Share Posted October 20, 2009 (edited) If I say exactly what I feel about women like you who sleep with married man, I will be banned from this board. Bluegreen, You make the choice of saying what you want to say in a negative and hurtful way, as long as you continue to make personal jabs at people they will continue to get angry and defensive with you. If you want people to take what you have to say into consideration, the best way to do it is to phrase it in such a manner that it is not hateful and accusatory. I do not mind hearing from people with a different opinion than mine, in fact, that is why I am here. But when that differing opinion is full of spite and name calling the OP shuts down and does not get the message. I think you have it in you to bring some insight and valid input into these boards, but in my opinion it needs to be done with tact and compassion. I am not saying you have to change your views, just express them with more sensitivity. I look forward to the day when you and I can have civil discussion about the issues expressed on these boards. Again, Thank You for taking the time to post your opinion. Edited October 20, 2009 by Fallen Angel Link to post Share on other sites
boldjack Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 Fallen Angel, this is an outstanding thread!! I sometimes think that the atmosphere becomes one of competition, rather than a sincere attempt to help the OW/OM, the WS or the BS. Posters disagree with each other, and begin to argue points, and before you know it the thread is way off topic. I think that the issue of staying on-topic would help stop a lot the acrimony and keep the threads moving in a positive way. Whatever our points-of-view, we should all agree that helping the OP should be our first priority.:) Link to post Share on other sites
Author Fallen Angel Posted October 20, 2009 Author Share Posted October 20, 2009 Fallen Angel, this is an outstanding thread!! I sometimes think that the atmosphere becomes one of competition, rather than a sincere attempt to help the OW/OM, the WS or the BS. Posters disagree with each other, and begin to argue points, and before you know it the thread is way off topic. I think that the issue of staying on-topic would help stop a lot the acrimony and keep the threads moving in a positive way. Whatever our points-of-view, we should all agree that helping the OP should be our first priority.:) I agree that staying ON TOPIC is helpful, but as we all know it is human nature to wander a bit (as seen here in my own thread) especially as not everyone has private message capabilities and if we don't have our "own thread" we cross post trying to "catch up" with each other. I just really don't know the answer. I guess the hardest part about it is that we all disagree about how to "help" the OPs. Some people think that a slap in the face serves as a "wake up call". For me however, that is the surest way to get me to completely disregard the point the poster is trying to make. Because of this, I am likely to miss something that could have otherwise been helpful. I really hope people will start to think about what I said about us all (or most of us) being damaged goods here. I am sure there will be those who disagree, but generally speaking people who are completely happy in their relationships don't hang out in the infidelity - OM/OW forums of a relationship website. I try not to say anything to someone else that if said to me I would find offensive. Though apparently I need to be even more aware of how I word things as well. The last thing I want to be guilty of is further breaking someone who is already broken. Link to post Share on other sites
MistyK Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 How about for starter, you change that from "am" to "was" and stop messing around with someone's husband. How about you stop resigning up with different screen names after being banned a billion times? Link to post Share on other sites
JumpinJimmy Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 Good thread, and after reading the responses and seeing the same 5 screen names writing to it, I thought I would add my thoughts to add some diversity. As being one who is a little harsher than most, I have found that if you go back to the basics and address the behavior and not the person, they have a tendency to not take it so personal. Also, FA said MY best suggestion is that if someone does start "picking on you" or trying to start a "fight" that you just thank them for their opinion and then STOP RESPONDING TO THEM! which I agree with. Give the haters the due dilegence that they deserve by ignoring them. On the posters end, they need to get brace themselves for some harsh words if they come on the LS and brag about wrecking marriages and being proud of it.. Link to post Share on other sites
Dexter Morgan Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 No matter which side of the triangle (or square) you are on, this board is supposed to be a place to learn from others, to get advice, and hopefully to heal. ok, but some of the advice ppl here look for is how to continue hurting someone else in real life. I am an OW, and some of the best advice and most compassionate comments I have recieved here has come from BW. It is because we have chosen to see each other as human beings, and looked beyond our positions in the triangle to find the person in pain and in need of tenderness, that we are able to offer each other support and kindness. fair enough, so are you an OW looking on how to end things with a MM, or are you looking to further your relationship with someone elses husband? big difference. the latter doesn't really deserve support. What do you all think we can do to work past the name calling and personal attacks and make this a safe and helpful place for all of us to heal? Suggestions? yes, for the people that are hurting others in real life to recognize it and actually care. But too many OW/OM feel as if they have no obligation to decency towards the BS and have the attitude as if they are entitled to sleep with other people's spouses. Change that attitude, and you just might get different results. Link to post Share on other sites
mybrowneyedgirl Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 if the MM is sleeping with someone else then he needs to be the one to answer to his spouse, not the OW. i understand its pretty controversial to feel that way and i'm prepared for it. i have no obligation to her, i dont know her or what her marriage is like. i only know the sack of lies hes told me, the man i'm sleeping with. and so its a bit quick to jump the gun and tell the OW she has some sort of "obligation to decency" to someone when theyre part of a situation that may be falsely described to them. i have an obligation to MY husband. and yes, i did him wrong. but i'm not obligated to her. she wants to come after me, destroy my life, get revenge. thats fine. but two wrongs dont make a right. and to say its justified is wrong. i could easily reverse it and say she had an "obligation of decency" to be a good wife to him, she wronged him and so he strayed. (i dont really feel that way but im just showing that theres more to this than blaming the OW) Link to post Share on other sites
Jacky Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 Very good thread, LS forum was suppose to give support for people who are going through difficult situations. People come here for support and advice, not to be judged. Is hard enough to keep everything to themselves. For the haters, does it feel like you have done the right thing after you have said something harsh to someone who suppose to have done wrong? Feels proud because it is morally correct to telling someone off? I am going to assume that we OM/OW didn't willingly choose to be in this position and we just couldn't help who we fell in love with. I am referring to majority of us, some minority might feel different about this. This situation we are in is very difficult and painful. For OM/OW we probably couldn't control our emotions towards a certain person despite the fact that he/she might be a MM/MW. It takes two to tango anyway, the MM/MW's M has problems or the love has died for each other then they fall in love with another person. Morally this shouldn't happen but sadly this happens in real life because passion fades and one or both side of the party can't be bothered to sort things out. Most situations is different but it should never be one person's fault.... Link to post Share on other sites
Dexter Morgan Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 if the MM is sleeping with someone else then he needs to be the one to answer to his spouse, not the OW. I completely agree. But if the OW feels she has no obligation to afford the BS human decency, then this is the problem of which I speak. People that don't want to afford others that decency simply on basis that they "don't know them", are a problem to more people in real life than the person whose spouse they are sleeping with. So while the MM/MW is the most to blame and need to take the lion's share of the responsibility in what they are doing, saying that one owes nothing to the spouse of the MM/MW they are sleeping shows what kind of character they are cut from. Just because MM/MW can't keep it in their pants, or keep the legs crossed around those other than their spouses, does not mitigate the despicable action and attitudes of the OW/OM. Now if the OW/OM actually has some remorse in their role in helping a spouse being one betrayed, and feels they owe them some level of consideration....then that would be completely different. I could even respect an OW/OM for at least that. i understand its pretty controversial to feel that way and i'm prepared for it. i have no obligation to her, i dont know her or what her marriage is like. so you don't feel like you owe her, or anyone else, decency or even the respect of at least a little consideration for what you are helping happen to them? not even a little?? i only know the sack of lies hes told me, the man i'm sleeping with. well duh!! he is a married man cheating on his wife. what finally tipped you off? and so its a bit quick to jump the gun and tell the OW she has some sort of "obligation to decency" to someone when theyre part of a situation that may be falsely described to them. what difference does it make, with regards to decency towards the wife of the man you are sleeping with, that the MM's words to you are lies? Link to post Share on other sites
mybrowneyedgirl Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 well i think there's a big difference. i entered a situation that i believed to be much different than it really was. i would have a different level of guilt and responsibility had i known she was a perfect wife than one who had herself hurt him in the past. and i feel remorse. i caused another person pain and heartache. destroyed her life. she was innocent. of course i feel guilt. but im not obligated to feel that way and if i didnt then i wouldnt be bad person for it. Link to post Share on other sites
boldjack Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 MBEG, I happen to believe that contact between the BS and the OW/OM is counter-productive, at least until disclosure, and maybe not even then. It depends on the situation............FA, I think that perhaps the most important aspect, is for all parties to refrain from personal attacks and name-calling. Disagreements can and will occur, but the answer is NOT to personally attack the other person. It's quite all right to attack their argument, just not them personally. The OP, after all, will take what they need and leave the rest, so anything more is just vindictiveness. Link to post Share on other sites
Dexter Morgan Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 and i feel remorse. i caused another person pain and heartache. destroyed her life. she was innocent. of course i feel guilt. but im not obligated to feel that way and if i didnt then i wouldnt be bad person for it. remember that the next time someone treats you with anything less than respect or decency. They don't owe it to you. Don't be mad at them. Link to post Share on other sites
Devil Inside Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 I think that it is unrealistic to think that everyone is going to hear exactly what they want to hear or be supported by every poster on these boards. I just do not think it will happen. LS is really great because it is a forum where people of all kinds of backgrounds, experiences, and philosophies can give their own version of support and advice. What I need to hear is probably not what you need to hear. I also may need a different kind of support at one point...and then later something totally different. In the end I think it just makes sense to come here being mindful that for many people here...what they post is to help THEM and not YOU. Writing what they write makes them feel better about THEIR situation...not YOURS. When this is the case it is pretty obvious...because the message is delivered just does not seem to be constructive at all, and seems very defensive and personal...it does not take a detective to figure these out. So when you get those...just move along...they aren't there for your benefit anyways. I would also say...this is not a place for those with thin skin. You are going to be told some things you don't want to hear...so if you are in a fragile state and judgment and criticism is going to be a trigger for you...then stay away. Overall I think this place helps more than it hurts...but like anything else in life...take it with a grain of salt. Link to post Share on other sites
wheelwright Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 I would like to add as a new poster, that i find the balance about right. There are the OW who are still in shock and fairly unable to feel guilt because they thought they were with the love of their lives. There are the more evolved affairsters who are working through NC. And there are bitter people on the other end. Somehow it is all helpful. It's not nice to be attacked, but it is grounding to see the other side. I am not sure what bitter BSs get out of it though. Unless they are of the understanding type, does it not just drive jealousy and other negative emotions? Link to post Share on other sites
fooled once Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 MBEG, I happen to believe that contact between the BS and the OW/OM is counter-productive, at least until disclosure, and maybe not even then. It depends on the situation............FA, I think that perhaps the most important aspect, is for all parties to refrain from personal attacks and name-calling. Disagreements can and will occur, but the answer is NOT to personally attack the other person. It's quite all right to attack their argument, just not them personally. The OP, after all, will take what they need and leave the rest, so anything more is just vindictiveness. I totally agree with this post. Lately, I have noticed when certain posters don't like the responses they are getting, they start with name calling and labeling posters as "BS's" and stating they don't belong here. Mainly a lot of the newer posters. I think everyone can do their part and address posters with NOT name calling and deciding who can and can't respond. Again FA ~ fantastic post! And I hope as you continue your journey, you can find the strength you need to break free and begin to heal. You are an awesome woman and I know you are really struggling with your situation. I hope soon you get the clarity you need to realize you deserve full attention from a relationship, not part time nor sharing. **hug** Link to post Share on other sites
NoIDidn't Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 Lately, I have noticed when certain posters don't like the responses they are getting, they start with name calling and labeling posters as "BS's" and stating they don't belong here. Mainly a lot of the newer posters. This is not a new phenomenon. Its been the tactic deployed by angry OP over and over again because it rallys other OPs to their *side*. One doesn't have to be a BS to dislike infidelity. It would be nice to not see threads like this pop up every couple of weeks. Link to post Share on other sites
fooled once Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 I agree with you NID; after that last thread a few weeks ago, it seemed like things calmed down quite a bit. But in the last several days, it has started up again And you are right, one doesn't have to be a BS to dislike infidelity. I dislike it very much, which seems hypocritical since I was a OW at one time, but I learned and grew from it and realized what a huge mistake I made, AND what a liar the guy was. Link to post Share on other sites
NoIDidn't Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 I agree with you NID; after that last thread a few weeks ago, it seemed like things calmed down quite a bit. But in the last several days, it has started up again Must mean a couple of posters were banned for a few days. LOL And you are right, one doesn't have to be a BS to dislike infidelity. I dislike it very much, which seems hypocritical since I was a OW at one time, but I learned and grew from it and realized what a huge mistake I made, AND what a liar the guy was. Oh, they have a name for you too. They call you "reformed", as if that's a bad thing. LOL. Its just sad. I get tired of hearing OP claim that they are being attacked in their board just because someone disagreed with them. It would be so very nice to be able to be completely civil in this forum, but its such a charged topic, I just don't see it happening all the time. Link to post Share on other sites
RedDevil66 Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 I was the OW 10 yrs ago when I was in my early 30's and I can say with true clarity, I was a scum bag! I paid for my actions dearly, I apologized to the wife and moved on to become a better person. Now having said this, I have an much sympathy for the OW/OM as I do a pedophile. And seriously people, you need to stop taking an interent msg board so seriously! goodness! Link to post Share on other sites
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