Can't we work it out?

[Fallen Angel]

Thank you all for taking the time to respond, I am hoping that with discussion about civility in posting we can all start to realize where we have perhaps gone too far.

 

I do not expect people to always agree with my choices. I do not expect people to always want to hug me, or validate my emotions and thoughts as "right". I just want us to be able to communicate our thoughts in a way that doesn't aim to cause INTENTIONAL EMOTIONAL DAMAGE to each other.

 

I don't think that is too much to expect from a forum full of adults.

Edited October 21, 2009 by Fallen Angel
it is cold, so i had a lot of typos from shivering, maybe i should go inside

[delirious]

I was the OW 10 yrs ago when I was in my early 30's and I can say with true clarity, I was a scum bag! I paid for my actions dearly, I apologized to the wife and moved on to become a better person.

Now having said this, I have an much sympathy for the OW/OM as I do a pedophile.

 

And seriously people, you need to stop taking an interent msg board so seriously!

 

goodness!

 

Then you seriously need to stay away from here. FFS!!!

[Fallen Angel]

To the person who decided to jab at me in another thread,

 

I just wanted to thank you for your well thought out response to me. Your insight into my character and my relationship will be taken into consideration, and will be filed away into the part of my brain that will treat your comment with all the consideration which it is due.

 

I will access your insightful remarks often I am sure, along the path I am taking to try to be a better person. It will empower me by reminding me of exactly the type of person I truly strive to be.

 

Take pity on us mere mortals, we can not all be the perfect soul that you are!

 

 

 

Sorry, I guess I still have work to do in this area.

[RedDevil66]

Then you seriously need to stay away from here. FFS!!!

 

really? and why is that? Because I have an opinion you can't handle!

[scatterd]

You wanted to know why I was on another post and wrote it does not matter what color a person is we are all gods children then I joked about the size thing maybe I miss under stood what you wrote in regaurds to that but I thought it was a Jab at me.But if im wrong im sorry.I am not here to hurt people at all.I dont have a problem with anyone I am just stating my veiw.

[Devil Inside]

If I say exactly what I feel about women like you who sleep with married man, I will be banned from this board.

 

Against my better judgment I feel compelled to address this comment. I think that there are many ways to say how you feel that would never get you kicked off the board...however from what I have seen of your posts...maybe you need some help in reframing your choice words.

 

I think it is funny that you set yourself up like this poor censored poster. I mean come on...really? When I read your posts I just shake my head. I think one of two things. Either you are just on here as a complete joke to be funny and say outrageous things to antagonize...or...you are so emotionally stunted by the things that have happened in your life that you can only communicate through the mediums of hate, aggression, judgment, and condemnation.

 

I believe that the way that people speak to others is a reflection of how they feel about themselves. If that is true in your case...then man...you need a hug.

[NoIDidn't]

When I read your posts I just shake my head. I think one of two things. Either you are just on here as a complete joke to be funny and say outrageous things to antagonize...or...you are so emotionally stunted by the things that have happened in your life that you can only communicate through the mediums of hate, aggression, judgment, and condemnation.

 

I believe that the way that people speak to others is a reflection of how they feel about themselves. If that is true in your case...then man...you need a hug.

 

This is the way to say what you mean and not incur the wrath of the MODS. LOL.

 

((((hugs to all))))

[delirious]

really? and why is that? Because I have an opinion you can't handle!

 

Because comparing a cheating spouse to a paedophile, you are in serious need of therapy - are you for real?????

[NoIDidn't]

Because comparing a cheating spouse to a paedophile, you are in serious need of therapy - are you for real?????

 

You might not agree with the comparison, but some people can see what she means.

 

Both are doing things that she finds detestable.

 

I don't see why that means she is in need of therapy.

[whichwayisup]

To be honest, I think these types of threads just make everything worse. Best thing to do is hit the alert button, explain why the post is being alerted and let the mods either delete it or edit out the offensive remarks. One person says something and then others jump on and a fight breaks out - More reaction and then thread gets deleted, members banned.

 

It just comes down to basic common respect for eachother, think twice before you (general you) posts a reply and if you find you have no empathy/sympathy for the person, don't even bother replying. What's the point?

 

Supportive, harsh, eye opening advice/thoughts are MUCH different that rude/mean comments. Many OW,OM, MM,MW have learned alot from BS's, and many BS's have learned alot from OW,OM,MM/MW.

 

Anyway, opinions are like @-holes, everyone has one! hehe, just a little joke to lighten things up.

[delirious]

You might not agree with the comparison, but some people can see what she means.

 

Both are doing things that she finds detestable.

 

I don't see why that means she is in need of therapy.

 

But she admitted doing it herself as well.

 

Well here is another one!! Some people can see what she means, what people are those, mad people?

[RedDevil66]

Because comparing a cheating spouse to a paedophile, you are in serious need of therapy - are you for real?????

 

You obviously don't comprehend very well, I never compared anyone to a pedophile. I SAID and I quote "I have about as much sympathy for a OW/OM as I do a pedophile"

Where am I comparing the two?

It is not I that needs therapy in this thread. I've had my share of therapy when it was time for me to stop being morally corrupt!

Drama, drama, drama!

[RedDevil66]

You might not agree with the comparison, but some people can see what she means.

 

Both are doing things that she finds detestable.

 

I don't see why that means she is in need of therapy.

 

Thank you for getting what I meant :-)

[RedDevil66]

But she admitted doing it herself as well.

 

Well here is another one!! Some people can see what she means, what people are those, mad people?

 

Yeah, I did do it and I was a scum bag for doing it. No one in my life was sympathetic to me. My friends told me I was a horrible person and they were right, but I had my head too far up my butt to listen, see or even care.

 

I took me years to release my pain that lead me to have an affair.

Then I grew up, grew a set of "balls" and took my head out of my butt to become "whole".

 

If someone were a thief and came on this site to say "I can't help it, I rob peoples houses over and over"

I can tell you with 100% certainty that NO ONE person on this site would have an OUNCE of sympathy for them.

 

People having affairs are as damaged as any petty thief. YES, now I am comparing!

[OWoman]

Thing is, NONE of us would be here if we were in perfect, wonderful, totally honest relationships.

 

I am

 

Nothing broken here, I'm afraid

[herenow]

remember that the next time someone treats you with anything less than respect or decency. They don't owe it to you. Don't be mad at them.

 

OK, I haven't read the rest of this thread. I stopped right here because I think this is an interesting point. We pussy foot around what we are thinking when OW continually start these threads asking BW to be more respectful in our posts.

 

I have to agree with Dexter. Sometimes I just want to scream at the computer: How can you ask a stranger to respect your feelings when you say that you don't owe anything (much less respect) to the stranger your MM is married to?

 

Not all OW will feel that way, but the ones who do are more likely to be the ones calling BS bitter. Or, my favorite: Now I know why your spouse is having an affair"

 

If you want respect from strangers on an internet forum, maybe the best place to start is in real life. When OW come here and say that they are not responsible for causing pain to the BW because they (the OW) aren't the one that is married and cheating, you can't expect respect from anyone who has been in the BS situation.

 

I used to post more often and really tried to give support. But, I don't post much anymore because I'm sick and tired of OW holding BW to a higher standard of respect. Bottom line, you don't respect us (in general, I know that my H's OW isn't on this forum) in real life, but you want us to respect you on this forum. No dice.

 

Having said that, I have gotten many PMs from OW's thanking me for my advice, so maybe a bitter BW isn't such a bad thing to have on this forum.

Edited October 21, 2009 by herenow

[scatterd]

Thats a good point respect goes both ways.:bunny:

[Fallen Angel]

You wanted to know why I was on another post and wrote it does not matter what color a person is we are all gods children then I joked about the size thing maybe I miss under stood what you wrote in regaurds to that but I thought it was a Jab at me.But if im wrong im sorry.I am not here to hurt people at all.I dont have a problem with anyone I am just stating my veiw.

 

I went back and found the post you are referring to... BrownEyedGirl posted this...

Originally Posted by mybrowneyedgirl

hmmm...my BH and I havent even had the size talk yet. OUCH. this could be a touchy subject. (and i think i should add that with all the vivid sex details that AP & I talked about, size was never one of them)

 

I responded to her post with this... I do not envy you THAT talk. *crosses her fingers in hopes that BEG never has to answer THOSE questions*

 

I do not see how that was misconstrued as a jab at you, if you saw it that way, I am sorry. It was in no way intended to be a jab at you or at anyone.

[RedDevil66]

One very significant difference that makes the use of OW and pedophiles in the same sentence so distasteful - pedophiles prey on defenseless children. OW and MM are ADULTS. And so is the BS. Nobody's getting their rocks off because someone defenseless is being violated sexually. Now, your particular brand of hatred for OW is understandable, given your history - we hate in others most that which is within ourselves. Maybe it's time to stop hating yourself so you can stop hating others?

 

Yeah, you figured me out. I hate myself

I hated myself when I was bedding someone else's husband. My love for myself started when I stopped being a tramp, went to get help and 9 yrs later have an amazing life!

Look into doing the same!

Edited October 21, 2009 by RedDevil66

[moaningmyrtle]

... plenty of people have sympathy for thise who are damaged. It doesn't justify the behavior. If you can't meet a person where they are, you have no chance of really reaching them. All of this moral "You suck" stuff does nothing except confirm what they already think of themselves and perpetuate the behavior.

 

and

 

There are just always going to be people with no tact and the desire to seek revenge on the easiest target. We can't control these things. The only thing we can control is ourselves and how we react to it.

 

On another thread you falsely accused me of hoping the OW was miserable and suggested I was being passive aggressive for it.

 

Glad to see you are taking this thread to heart Misty. Practicing what you preach and all that. **[tried to add sarcastic face later but has disappeared from options]**

 

I will not bother to say much about what I think of you.

 

Myrtle

Edited October 21, 2009 by moaningmyrtle

[Fallen Angel]

I am

 

Nothing broken here, I'm afraid

 

LOL, okay then let me rephrase that, none of us would be here if we had always been in perfect, wonderful, totally honest relationships.

[NoIDidn't]

I used to post more often and really tried to give support. But, I don't post much anymore because I'm sick and tired of OW holding BW to a higher standard of respect. Bottom line, you don't respect us (in general, I know that my H's OW isn't on this forum) in real life, but you want us to respect you on this forum. No dice.

 

Having said that, I have gotten many PMs from OW's thanking me for my advice, so maybe a bitter BW isn't such a bad thing to have on this forum.

 

The bolded is basically the point in all this.

 

These threads aren't started to hold the OW accountable for their slights against anyone that dares disagree with them. Its just one more in an attmept to put the BS/BW "in their place".

 

God forbid we actually get any power in the structure of the EMA triangle.

 

There are very few OW that actually respect the BSs here. Of course, they will come back and say that we earn their respect. But I disagree with that sentiment. Again, if we are all adults here, there is no need for me to earn an anonymous person on the internet's respect. It should be a given. And according to the rules of using the boards, it is to be given off the bat - not earned.

 

(Fallen, my criticism of these kinds of threads is not aimed at you, per se. These threads are very common in this forum. And are frequently nothing more than the whining of an OP that came in here full of bluster only to be shown the light of day and they didn't like that they weren't nearly as clever as they thought they were. These kinds of threads typically pull posters that usually don't even post here into the fray to dispute the illogical rationale of those demanding respect for disrespectful behavior. And many of us posting here have, in fact, been the OP a time or two, so its not like we don't know what we are talking about even when we disagree.)

[OWoman]

There are very few OW that actually respect the BSs here. Of course' date=' they will come back and say that we earn their respect. But I disagree with that sentiment. Again, if we are all adults here, there is no need for me to earn an anonymous person on the internet's respect. It should be a given. And according to the rules of using the boards, it is to be given off the bat - not earned.[/quote']

 

NID, I think this raises an interesting point. There are a number of BSs here that I respect - and no, it wasn't "automatic" - respect, IMO, DOES have to be earned, IRL as well as here. Some have earned it, others haven't - just like IRL.

 

I have a number of friends IRL who have been BSs. That hasn't diminished my respect for them - just as their HIV status, their social class or their race wouldn't impact on my respect or otherwise for them. But there are other BSs IRL for whom I have zero respect - and my H's xW is one such. However, just because she's not worthy of respect - and so, gets none from me - doesn't mean all BSs fall into that category. I treat each case on its own merits - and I don't see any other intelligent people doing elsewise.

 

Prejudice - be it anti-OW, or anti-BS - is a sign of fear and ignorance.

[Fallen Angel]

The bolded is basically the point in all this.

 

These threads aren't started to hold the OW accountable for their slights against anyone that dares disagree with them. Its just one more in an attmept to put the BS/BW "in their place".

 

God forbid we actually get any power in the structure of the EMA triangle.

 

There are very few OW that actually respect the BSs here. Of course, they will come back and say that we earn their respect. But I disagree with that sentiment. Again, if we are all adults here, there is no need for me to earn an anonymous person on the internet's respect. It should be a given. And according to the rules of using the boards, it is to be given off the bat - not earned.

 

(Fallen, my criticism of these kinds of threads is not aimed at you, per se. These threads are very common in this forum. And are frequently nothing more than the whining of an OP that came in here full of bluster only to be shown the light of day and they didn't like that they weren't nearly as clever as they thought they were. These kinds of threads typically pull posters that usually don't even post here into the fray to dispute the illogical rationale of those demanding respect for disrespectful behavior. And many of us posting here have, in fact, been the OP a time or two, so its not like we don't know what we are talking about even when we disagree.)

 

I understand the point you are trying to make, i guess for me I try to be openminded to everyones pain, and I just don't see how name calling and personal attacks are helpful in getting someone's point across.

 

I would never deem it neccesary to try to "put a BS in their place", I have walked in those shoes myself numerous times over the years. I just think we can all find more constructive ways of voicing our opinion.

 

Once name calling starts, people stop listening to the nuggets of gold hidden amongst the sh*t. *sigh* Even this thread has turned ugly, and all I was looking for was suggestions of how we could make this a place for ALL of us to find some healing, OW/OM and BW/BH alike.

 

Like I said, I have found great wisdom and compassion in many posts from BSs, it is helpful to see what they think and feel. I think the reverse is also true that many BSs have found help in the words of OW and OM. Just because someone doesn't agree with me doesn't mean I should disregard what they have to say, but when it is mean and hurtful, I know that I tend to feel the sting rather than appreciate the message. If I didn't want honest input I would write in a personal diary rather than be on a forum.

 

I don't know what the answer is...

Edited October 22, 2009 by Fallen Angel

[Samantha0905]

I have to say I am disappointed in the way some of the threads have turned in the past two days or so.

 

I have been seeing personal attacks and name calling, finger pointing and blame laying.

 

Thing is, NONE of us would be here if we were in perfect, wonderful, totally honest relationships. ALL of us here are broken in some way, whether by our own actions, or by actions perpetrated against us by someone we loved and trusted.

 

No matter which side of the triangle (or square) you are on, this board is supposed to be a place to learn from others, to get advice, and hopefully to heal.

 

I am an OW, and some of the best advice and most compassionate comments I have recieved here has come from BW. It is because we have chosen to see each other as human beings, and looked beyond our positions in the triangle to find the person in pain and in need of tenderness, that we are able to offer each other support and kindness.

 

What do you all think we can do to work past the name calling and personal attacks and make this a safe and helpful place for all of us to heal? Suggestions?

 

HI -- and thank you for the "TJ" lesson.

 

I'm new here, but have already noticed a lot of judgment -- and also a lot of helpful advice. I don't mind listening to someone else's opinion, but when people start using terms like "idiot" "bible thumper" etc. that's pretty immature. Plus, telling other people how they themselves actually feel -- or presuming you know exactly how they feel or the motivations for their actions-- or thinking your solution is the only solution is a bit arrogant. There is a way to be constructive or critical without coming off as judgmental.