Sensitive but strong male...

[Rudderless]

Oh. I guess I am "heavy" too then Perhaps I should give up on relationships and just buy a rocking chair and a cat instead.

It's not the biggest obstacle to overcome. One way of getting perspective just to do something for fun that you're quite bad at.

[CLC2008]

The OP should date my friend's sister, she's an attorney and is naturally very assertive but has the emotions of a cold fish.

 

Enjoy

[Thornton]

I've found you sparky and fun... if I may say so.

Thank you So despite the research study that SadAndConfused referred to, there actually is a chance that intelligent men might like me! Hurrah!

 

 

A reposte:

Yes, but do you have the statistics for this cross-section on a global scale? If so, what are the actual figures? Hmmm? Hmmm? How about just the millions of people that surround you? And how many of those millions have you dated (lol I'm just giving an extreme example)?

 

You can't and don't know for sure. This is an "appeal to probability" fallacy. Just because it could happen, does not mean that it will happen.

Hmm, no I don't have any figures, just anecdotal evidence. Perhaps you're right - just because I have not in the past tended to encounter people who find me fascinating, does not mean they're not out there. They're obviously just very good at hiding. Come out, come out, wherever you are!

 

 

HOT!!!! I'd definitely try to get your attention if you were wearing that t-shirt around me. Which you have given me a great idea for meeting people. 3/14

I also have a Futurama tshirt that says "Planet Express: Reliable Interplanetary Delivery", as well as the Blue Sun tshirt that Jayne wears on Firefly, and one that explains how to play Rock-Paper-Scissors-Lizard-Spock They do work reasonably well in attracting the attention of any geeks who happen to be in the area, assuming they're not too shy to approach me. The latter works better in terms of meeting people - they ask me what it means, and then we play a few games of Rock-Paper-Scissors-Lizard-Spock Once I was even approached in the street by someone who wanted to ask if my umbrella was a replica of the ones used in Blade Runner (it is ).

[Zansatsu]

Thank you So despite the research study that SadAndConfused referred to, there actually is a chance that intelligent men might like me! Hurrah!

 

YES!

 

 

Hmm, no I don't have any figures, just anecdotal evidence. Perhaps you're right - just because I have not in the past tended to encounter people who find me fascinating, does not mean they're not out there. They're obviously just very good at hiding. Come out, come out, wherever you are!

 

We exist, we just don't go out to the usual hangouts.

 

 

I also have a Futurama tshirt that says "Planet Express: Reliable Interplanetary Delivery",

 

I own every Futurama DVD. Zoidberg has to be my favorite.

 

 

as well as the Blue Sun tshirt that Jayne wears on Firefly,

 

Never got into that series, but I have friends that swear it's the best thing since sliced bread.

 

 

and one that explains how to play Rock-Paper-Scissors-Lizard-Spock

 

I saw this one on thinkgeek.com and thought it was awesome.

 

 

They do work reasonably well in attracting the attention of any geeks who happen to be in the area, assuming they're not too shy to approach me. The latter works better in terms of meeting people - they ask me what it means, and then we play a few games of Rock-Paper-Scissors-Lizard-Spock

 

*Quietly clicks buy*

 

 

Once I was even approached in the street by someone who wanted to ask if my umbrella was a replica of the ones used in Blade Runner (it is ).

 

I own the Director's Cut.... so... uhh... ever been to the states? ROFL (Rhetorical question)

Edited October 31, 2009 by Zansatsu
Clarity

[Thornton]

We exist, we just don't go out to the usual hangouts.

Yes, I know... you spend your Saturday nights watching sci-fi, discussing philosophy, playing D&D, or hanging out in front of the bank in Ironforge

(I'm teasing - really I wish I had people to play D&D with on a Saturday night!)

 

I have this theory that a huge proportion of the intellectual people in the world are sitting at home feeling isolated, wishing they knew each other but lacking a way to meet. Happily the internet is changing all that - I probably talk to more interesting people online than I do irl. Nowadays you can turn up at certain places in Second Life and join a philosophical discussion at pretty much any time of the day or night (not to mention the organised debates - yay for the internet!)

 

 

I saw this one on thinkgeek.com and thought it was awesome.

That's the same one I've got - it's very good for starting a conversation with geeky people, although everyone else is rather bemused by it. So in a way I guess it acts as a filtering mechanism

 

 

I own the Director's Cut.... so... uhh... ever been to the states? ROFL

Yes, of course I've been to the states - you have better computing conferences over there Your work visas are annoyingly difficult to get though, because I've tried in the past.

[Zansatsu]

Yes, I know... you spend your Saturday nights watching sci-fi, discussing philosophy, playing D&D, or hanging out in front of the bank in Ironforge

(I'm teasing - really I wish I had people to play D&D with on a Saturday night!)

 

Actually, it's usually Rifts or Sundered Skies and we like to start early, then when we all get sick of it, we go kill each other playing Halo 3, or we pat each other on the back surviving wave after wave on Gears of War 2. Philosophy is a 24/7 occupation. Watching Sci-Fi is whenever I've got "me time" and not being called by work at all hours of the night because the automation is working, yet not speaking English so they need an interpretter.

 

And it used to be Orgrimmar or SMC for me (Horde players, on average, are older than Alliance players who want to be the "good guys").

 

 

I have this theory that a huge proportion of the intellectual people in the world are sitting at home feeling isolated, wishing they knew each other but lacking a way to meet. Happily the internet is changing all that - I probably talk to more interesting people online than I do irl. Nowadays you can turn up at certain places in Second Life and join a philosophical discussion at pretty much any time of the day or night (not to mention the organised debates - yay for the internet!)

 

/agree

 

 

That's the same one I've got - it's very good for starting a conversation with geeky people, although everyone else is rather bemused by it. So in a way I guess it acts as a filtering mechanism

 

Very clever.

 

 

Yes, of course I've been to the states - you have better computing conferences over there Your work visas are annoyingly difficult to get though, because I've tried in the past.

 

I don't attend those, although I should seeing how much I love linux (Slackware user) and "network security." I've always wanted to attend DEFCON.

 

I have, however, been to a popular Sci-Fi convention here (the second largest in the states): Dragon*Con. I've never dressed up, but it is a blast. I love collecting art prints by struggling artists and I get so much unique Sci-Fi/Fantasy work from Dragon*Con every year. I love it.

Edited October 31, 2009 by Zansatsu
Typo(s)

[Thornton]

(Horde players, on average, are older than Alliance players who want to be the "good guys").

I'm an alt-aholic, and having played both Horde and Alliance I haven't seen a significant difference in the maturity of players on either side. That aside, you're kind of lucky to have people to engage in such pastimes with - I'm kind of isolated irl, hence why I'm online a lot (I think the isolation is one of the big reasons why I worry about my prime ticking away).

 

 

Philosophy is a 24/7 occupation. Watching Sci-Fi is whenever I've got "me time" and not being called by work at all hours of the night.

I feel compelled to concur I like to read sci-fi/fantasy as well as watching it, and constantly having my nose in a book obviously does not help with the "getting out and meeting people". I can however recommend dancing as a good way to meet people (especially girls - there's a serious shortage of men at my salsa and swing dance classes). Might be something worth trying anyway...

 

 

I don't attend those, although I should seeing how much I love linux (Slackware user) and "network security."

You have to attend if you have a research paper in the conference, which is the only way to get funded for travel in my business. It's mostly a social meet-up with colleagues anyway - imagine a whole conference full of geeks, plus free dinners and parties

 

 

I have, however, been to a popular Sci-Fi convention here (the second largest in the states): Dragon*Con. I've never dressed up, but it is a blast. I love collecting art prints by struggling artists and I get so much unique Sci-Fi/Fantasy work from Dragon*Con every year. I love it.

Ooo, I wanna go, I wanna go! I would have to dress up though

I never heard about it before but it looks like great fun. There must be a million girls there for you to meet...?

[Zansatsu]

I'm an alt-aholic, and having played both Horde and Alliance I haven't seen a significant difference in the maturity of players on either side. That aside, you're kind of lucky to have people to engage in such pastimes with - I'm kind of isolated irl, hence why I'm online a lot (I think the isolation is one of the big reasons why I worry about my prime ticking away).

 

I was an alt-aholic as well having all kinds, but I stuck mostly to Horde. I played for about 3 years, so I guess my generalization may not ring true. During the Burning Crusade years, I think a lot of the Allies migrated over to make BEs so while it used to be true, it isn't any more.

 

I am lucky. I love my friends, but we are so tight knit, it's not common for us to bring new people into the fold and hanging out with them is an end unto itself.

 

 

I feel compelled to concur I like to read sci-fi/fantasy as well as watching it, and constantly having my nose in a book obviously does not help with the "getting out and meeting people". I can however recommend dancing as a good way to meet people (especially girls - there's a serious shortage of men at my salsa and swing dance classes). Might be something worth trying anyway...

 

I know enough to be ok on the dance floor, but I do need to take a few classes to brush up.

 

 

You have to attend if you have a research paper in the conference, which is the only way to get funded for travel in my business. It's mostly a social meet-up with colleagues anyway - imagine a whole conference full of geeks, plus free dinners and parties

 

I've heard about this through my brother. Good times.

 

 

Ooo, I wanna go, I wanna go! I would have to dress up though

I never heard about it before but it looks like great fun. There must be a million girls there for you to meet...?

 

There are many girls there, but so many people attend, and the clatter from the masses so cacophonous that it detracts from any casual conversation you may be trying to have. Admittedly, I didn't have the confidence last time to engage in idle conversation, so I really have only myself to blame on that one.

[Thornton]

I am lucky. I love my friends, but we are so tight knit, it's not common for us to bring new people into the fold and hanging out with them is an end unto itself.

Well, arguably this wouldn't be a problem if you already had a steady partner It's only a problem if you want to meet new people, because you end up not meeting any. I have always struggled with meeting people; you go out to a bar or something and (if you have mainly intellectual and personal criteria) it's difficult to pick out someone you might get on with, because you're judging the book by its cover.

 

I really do think that online dating is the way to go, because you can find out fairly quickly whether someone is compatible with you, and looks are an afterthought. However it's always Sod's Law that the person who piques your interest never happens to live right down the street It's terribly annoying that all of my interesting online chat buddies live hundreds or thousands of miles away, and the people who live nearby tend not to interest me so much. However I'm still grateful that I have interesting people to chat with at all, even if they're not here in person.

 

 

I know enough to be ok on the dance floor, but I do need to take a few classes to brush up.

It's fun! Plus guys usually outnumber girls 10/1 - great for you, sucks for me

 

 

There are many girls there, but so many people attend, and the clatter from the masses so cacophonous that it detracts from any casual conversation you may be trying to have. Admittedly, I didn't have the confidence last time to engage in idle conversation, so I really have only myself to blame on that one.

You seem to engage in casual conversation just fine here You're very interesting and I honestly don't understand why you have difficulty dating... someone ought to have snapped you up and put a ring on your finger by now.

[Zansatsu]

Well, arguably this wouldn't be a problem if you already had a steady partner It's only a problem if you want to meet new people, because you end up not meeting any. I have always struggled with meeting people; you go out to a bar or something and (if you have mainly intellectual and personal criteria) it's difficult to pick out someone you might get on with, because you're judging the book by its cover.

 

You've hit the nail on the head.

 

 

I really do think that online dating is the way to go, because you can find out fairly quickly whether someone is compatible with you, and looks are an afterthought. However it's always Sod's Law that the person who piques your interest never happens to live right down the street It's terribly annoying that all of my interesting online chat buddies live hundreds or thousands of miles away, and the people who live nearby tend not to interest me so much. However I'm still grateful that I have interesting people to chat with at all, even if they're not here in person.

 

Maybe I should give it another try. I had a couple of dates, but no results.

 

 

It's fun! Plus guys usually outnumber girls 10/1 - great for you, sucks for me

 

If guys outnumber girls, I would imagine it would be great for you. Of course, you are probably like me and trip on your words occasionally, so I think I know what you meant (the other way around).

 

 

You seem to engage in casual conversation just fine here You're very interesting and I honestly don't understand why you have difficulty dating...

 

I'm just trying to build the courage back up before heading out and trying to tackle dating again.

 

 

someone ought to have snapped you up and put a ring on your finger by now.

 

Don't remind me... lol

[Thornton]

Maybe I should give it another try. I had a couple of dates, but no results.

I find that people who I find interesting and attractive are in short supply online as well as irl. The difference is, online it's easier to weed out the people you're not interested in; unfortunately it doesn't increase the proportion of people you might get on with, finding someone you like online is just as rare as irl.

 

 

If guys outnumber girls, I would imagine it would be great for you. Of course, you are probably like me and trip on your words occasionally, so I think I know what you meant (the other way around).

Oops Yes, I meant the other way around.

 

 

I'm just trying to build the courage back up before heading out and trying to tackle dating again.

I am seriously at the end of my tether with relationships. I'm on the brink of just accepting that I'll remain unmarried and childless forever

 

 

Don't remind me... lol

Aww ((hug))

It's probably very little consolation, but nobody has offered me a ring either. Kind of dents your self-esteem, doesn't it? You think you're reasonably attractive and interesting, doing ok in life, but nobody wants to snap you up... so you begin to wonder what's wrong with you that everyone else can see but you can't. There's a little voice in the back of my head that wasn't there ten years ago, whispering that nobody decent will ever want to commit to me otherwise it would have happened already, like it has for everyone else... most people are married (and divorced!) by my age and I feel like an old spinster I seriously worry that I'll end up being one, and it's caused me some serious depression of late.

 

Talking about it to someone else in a similar situation helps actually, particularly because you understand the depression and angst it causes, and it sounds like you may have struggled with similar feelings. So thanks... I no longer feel like the only person in the world who's worried about this sort of thing

[The Collector]

You seem to be a smart, charming guy who has handled criticism well and have managed not to stir the ire of any of the more formidable members, including me. From your avatar you don't seem unattractive, and if I can get away with loving Marvel comics there is no reason why you can't pull despite being into whatever spoddy interests you have (oh and the quantum physics is gold with me (Hugh Everett is the greatest mind of the 20th century, how d'ya like them apples?), but not interesting to 99% of women, Thornton a lovely exception.)

 

So where are you going wrong? First, your thread mentions 'sensitive' first. Sensitive is a funny word - you can be sensitive in that you are good at reading people and understanding things others might miss, but generally it sadly signals weakness, like you're easily hurt, and more importantly is little more than a bonus in the dating world. A generation of men have been taught to be in touch with their feelings and aware of their issues, but in itself it will just get you a pat on the head.

 

You made it clear you are not looking for a pity-party, but useful advice on how to parlay your attractive qualities into success with women. So here goes.

 

You are probably one of those guys that your female friends think would make a great partner - but not for them. Because you don't turn them on. When it comes to flirting, I'm guessing you either rarely do it, or when you get a hint of interest, like your exchanges with thornton, you start complimenting the girl, or reacting too grateful for the interest. Tell me if I'm wrong, I hardly know you. You're ideal state of mind when talking to a woman you like should be 'Hmm, you have piqued my interest, so i'm going to talk to you for a bit. I'll probably tease you about something you said, and you'll think 'what a cheeky swine, most men just kiss my butt.' You will also give off the impression that although you like this girl so far, you have so many options and are used to girls finding you attractive that you really aren't that bothered about whether she likes you or not, and it's her job to impress you further... definitely not the other way around.

 

Another issue might be that you are not playful or fun enough. Those guys that drink to excess and take drugs - they often get a lot of women. They don't care, they do crazy stuff, they aren't boring. You don't have to take drugs, but many women will gravitate towards the 'dangerous', especially when they are younger. If you seem a little uptight or sensible, they might just put that down as 'no fun.'

 

Confidence - do you believe, really believe, you are 'The Prize'? Men that do, however misguided they might be, succeed with women. It's difficult without some success to base it on, but my point is that if you can break your womanless cycle it will probably snowball and you will be beating them off with a stick.

 

In short, never doubt there is a woman that will like you. Assume the sale. If one doesn't, next. And most of all, when interacting with a woman, don't feel like you have to prove yourself to her to make her make a rational decision to be with you. Women don't work like that. You have to make her feel lucky to even be with you. You can tease her because you are not afraid of upsetting or offending her. You can be wary of getting into a relationship because you have so many offers and you quite like being single. It may not be true, but the truth, in your case, is not going to get in her pants. Fake it til you make it - and honestly, from your posts, I don't see any reason why you can't make it big with women. Just be... sexier.

[Thornton]

To me that sounds rather like playing games Pretend you're not interested when really you are, act like you have sooo many options and the girl you're talking to isn't anything special... I don't doubt it's a very good way to reel in a sucker for a quick fling, but imo it isn't the way to go about finding a lasting relationship.

 

If a guy acted like he wasn't really interested in me, I would look for someone else, because I'm 30 and I don't have time to play games with someone who doesn't even seem sure whether he likes me or not. I'm very straight-forward when it comes to this sort of thing; my basic attitude is "I like you... Do you like me? If not then stop wasting my time". Imo you're either in or out, and if you don't indicate very clearly that you're in I will assume that you're out. I wasted too many years and suffered too much heartache from hanging around after guys who weren't even sure whether they liked me or not, and now that the clock is ticking in earnest I can't afford to do that any more.

 

I think what you're getting at it is that the guy has to come across as desirable, but him acting disinterested would not create that impression in my mind. I've always been looking for the big romance, fireworks from the second we meet, a meeting of the minds, all that stuff... Romeo did not say to Juliet "Meh, you're ok I suppose, but there's this other girl Rosaline that I also quite like..." No, he scaled the orchard wall and professed undying love... that's what I want (although I don't have an orchard, nor a wall for that matter; it's the principle of the thing that counts).

 

When it comes to being fun, different people have different ideas of what fun is. I'm aware that a lot of guys wouldn't enjoy the things I like, but I'm not about to change simply to appeal to a broader cross-section of men. A bottle of wine and a philosophical discussion in a quiet cafe would be my idea of heaven, but a lot of guys would find that deathly boring and would prefer to talk about reality tv or get drunk until they fall down. I respect their choice to enjoy different things to me, but I'm not about to pretend I'm the same as them, because I'm not... pretending to be someone else's ides of "fun" is something you could not keep up indefinitely anyway, and when the mask finally falls you're going to find that the two of you are actually incompatible on a fundamental level. Much better to be honest about who you are and find someone who loves you for that

Edited October 31, 2009 by Thornton

[The Collector]

Good points, but you admit you spent many years interested in guys who actually were, or playing hard to get. It does work. Being hard to get, as opposed to pretending you are hard to get, is ideal, but yes fake it til you make it. After a while it will become true, he will have lots of options. And that's the guy who get all the girls.

 

If the Op is coming across as needy or desperate or too eager to please (in real life), he needs to change that. The other, maybe more important thing, is to learn how to be sexy, to raise a woman's interest, to act in such a way that women think about having sex with him, not immediately ruling it out even if they think he'd be great for someone else. It could be a self-fulfilling prophecy, and apparently better than going around being a rational choice for a partner that nobody is choosing.

 

Women invented 'hard-to-get.' Men understand it's power rarely if ever. They are more logical and think 'look at this list of my good points - how can you resist?' Yet they do if they don't raise sexual interest.

[Thornton]

Good points, but you admit you spent many years interested in guys who actually were, or playing hard to get.

Yes, but they were knob-heads... I just didn't realise it at the time. Like many other women I was too young to have enough self respect to tell them to get stuffed; instead I would cry and feel unwanted and unloved.

 

Nowadays I have more sense, and I'm not prepared to put up with that sort of crap; I'm too old to play games, and someone who can't show the common courtesy of being honest about their intentions isn't worth my time. Anyone who makes me cry or makes me feel unhappy simply isn't worth it, and the right guy won't make me feel that way. Acting like a jerk will only ever work on girls who are too young to have any self respect, or on women with low self esteem who don't believe that they deserve to have a guy's exclusive love and attention. If someone you love acts like they need you it's actually endearing... doesn't everyone want to be needed and loved? Being sexy and desirable has little or nothing to do with playing hard to get; it's to do with being generally handsome and interesting and a good catch.

 

Being hard to get, as opposed to pretending you are hard to get, is ideal, but yes fake it til you make it. After a while it will become true, he will have lots of options. And that's the guy who get all the girls.

Well that explains everything! The guy who gets all the girls is not the guy I want to be with, hence why I would find his strategies unappealing. What I want is the guy who wants one girl, and he's the guy who doesn't play silly games and actually likes me enough as an individual to be honest about his feelings.

Edited November 1, 2009 by Thornton

[The Collector]

You've experimented and found what you like. You are also tired of the challenge of bad-boys or the non-available. But the OP needs more experience before he can make similarly informed selections. Being a great guy with no experience doesn't count for much. Just being himself and waiting for a girl to see he's a keeper isn't working out for him. He can either search through every last woman on earth to find one that likes him as he is or make a few subtle changes to the way he acts and have more choice, and more chance of landing a good LTR if that's what he wants. Acting hard-to-please and not being too eager are not exactly evil mind-games.

 

But that's only part of my advice. I think his best option is to just add some sexual edge to what he already has going for him. Sexual confidence and a confident but could-care-less attitude when interacting with women would probably solve all of his problems. What's your advice?

[Mary3]

To me that sounds rather like playing games Pretend you're not interested when really you are, act like you have sooo many options and the girl you're talking to isn't anything special... I don't doubt it's a very good way to reel in a sucker for a quick fling, but imo it isn't the way to go about finding a lasting relationship.

 

If a guy acted like he wasn't really interested in me, I would look for someone else, because I'm 30 and I don't have time to play games with someone who doesn't even seem sure whether he likes me or not. I'm very straight-forward when it comes to this sort of thing; my basic attitude is "I like you... Do you like me? If not then stop wasting my time". Imo you're either in or out, and if you don't indicate very clearly that you're in I will assume that you're out. I wasted too many years and suffered too much heartache from hanging around after guys who weren't even sure whether they liked me or not, and now that the clock is ticking in earnest I can't afford to do that any more.

 

I think what you're getting at it is that the guy has to come across as desirable, but him acting disinterested would not create that impression in my mind. I've always been looking for the big romance, fireworks from the second we meet, a meeting of the minds, all that stuff... Romeo did not say to Juliet "Meh, you're ok I suppose, but there's this other girl Rosaline that I also quite like..." No, he scaled the orchard wall and professed undying love... that's what I want (although I don't have an orchard, nor a wall for that matter; it's the principle of the thing that counts).

 

When it comes to being fun, different people have different ideas of what fun is. I'm aware that a lot of guys wouldn't enjoy the things I like, but I'm not about to change simply to appeal to a broader cross-section of men. A bottle of wine and a philosophical discussion in a quiet cafe would be my idea of heaven, but a lot of guys would find that deathly boring and would prefer to talk about reality tv or get drunk until they fall down. I respect their choice to enjoy different things to me, but I'm not about to pretend I'm the same as them, because I'm not... pretending to be someone else's ides of "fun" is something you could not keep up indefinitely anyway, and when the mask finally falls you're going to find that the two of you are actually incompatible on a fundamental level. Much better to be honest about who you are and find someone who loves you for that

 

On the one hand Thorton you are right.

You don't want someone to play games with you. You want him to desire you and devour you .

You don't want someone you barely feign interest in and them to minimize your magnifigance either...

 

.Usually when you get the fireworks and the chemistry you want to be observant if there is * anything more * ....other than the mating dance of lust and desire and fornicating 6 times a day

 

But for men its not an instant " Yes I like you .I want an immediate relationship that leads to marriage and 6 kids " Men dont quite work like that. Its more like for men : "Hey she is attractive and intelligent. I think I will take her to the Star Wars Convention." NO man worth his salt will scream * Wedding Dress! Lets get Married quickly ! " unless he is desperate.

 

But the undying love that Romeo felt for Juliet : Well . they were young teens and as we all know kids change , into adults and their needs and desires change Hence we have * what dating is for *........

[Zansatsu]

You are probably one of those guys that your female friends think would make a great partner - but not for them. Because you don't turn them on.

 

On the contrary: I often hear how they wish their lives had played out differently and how they wish it was me instead of their current. They also have talked to me at length about my "interests" in bed and have often spoken about how they wish they had chosen differently.

 

 

When it comes to flirting, I'm guessing you either rarely do it, or when you get a hint of interest, like your exchanges with thornton, you start complimenting the girl, or reacting too grateful for the interest.

 

No, I try to treat them as an ordinary person. I find I let myself down if I get overly interested because "I am not there yet" with them.

 

I interact with Thornton the way I do because as WoW players, there is a kinship there and we have common thoughts. All of my interest in Thornton is hypothetical, and while I would love to meet her, I realize that it could be a strong possibility that it may never happen. The fact that she understands me and I understand her is what makes me compliment her. We have a connection in that regard and I would be blind to ignore it.

 

 

You're ideal state of mind when talking to a woman you like should be 'Hmm, you have piqued my interest, so i'm going to talk to you for a bit. I'll probably tease you about something you said, and you'll think 'what a cheeky swine, most men just kiss my butt.' You will also give off the impression that although you like this girl so far, you have so many options and are used to girls finding you attractive that you really aren't that bothered about whether she likes you or not, and it's her job to impress you further... definitely not the other way around.

 

I don't treat a woman differently because she is a woman. If it were some guy that I was having a conversation with, they would either get my interest or not. I am straight, but I've found that women don't want to be treated differently because they were born with different physical equipment than me. Likewise, I don't think I should feign disinterest. I refuse to change who I am for them, and if they don't like me for who I am, then that's fine, but I'm not going to place them on a pedestal. Thornton owns her position because she has debated things with me at length and has earned my interest and respect as a human being and not just as a woman, although she exhibits traits of being an excellent woman in my eyes, intellectually.

 

 

Another issue might be that you are not playful or fun enough. Those guys that drink to excess and take drugs - they often get a lot of women. They don't care, they do crazy stuff, they aren't boring. You don't have to take drugs, but many women will gravitate towards the 'dangerous', especially when they are younger. If you seem a little uptight or sensible, they might just put that down as 'no fun.'

 

I can take and deliver a joke with the best of them, and I will playfully, but not degradingly tease someone. As someone who was a victim of bullies growing up, I prefer to raise someones esteem instead of lowering it to suit my needs. I also swore off drugs and excessive alcohol because I found that it created more problems for me than it solved. I have daydreamed of being a badboy, but the truth of the matter remains that I prefer a silly sense of humor than acting flamboyantly to attract attention. If a woman isn't perceptive enough to grasp my subtleties, then I'm not interested anyway.

 

 

Confidence - do you believe, really believe, you are 'The Prize'? Men that do, however misguided they might be, succeed with women. It's difficult without some success to base it on, but my point is that if you can break your womanless cycle it will probably snowball and you will be beating them off with a stick.

 

I know I have traits worthy of interest, but I prefer to maintain humility. Arrogance has caused me trouble, much like drugs and alcohol, and I prefer to see things for what they are rather than allow myself to believe in something that I invented.

 

 

In short, never doubt there is a woman that will like you. Assume the sale. If one doesn't, next. And most of all, when interacting with a woman, don't feel like you have to prove yourself to her to make her make a rational decision to be with you. Women don't work like that. You have to make her feel lucky to even be with you. You can tease her because you are not afraid of upsetting or offending her. You can be wary of getting into a relationship because you have so many offers and you quite like being single. It may not be true, but the truth, in your case, is not going to get in her pants. Fake it til you make it - and honestly, from your posts, I don't see any reason why you can't make it big with women. Just be... sexier.

 

You are right, what happens in my life is in my hands and I have the control to say who comes and who goes. But, I'm not going to go out of my way to make them "feel lucky" as this sounds too much like manipulation. If they pass me up, I will tell them they don't know what they are missing, but beyond that, I'm not going to inflate myself to appear differently to them. That sounds too much like lying to me.

[Zansatsu]

If a guy acted like he wasn't really interested in me, I would look for someone else, because I'm 30 and I don't have time to play games with someone who doesn't even seem sure whether he likes me or not.

 

Exactly.

 

 

I'm very straight-forward when it comes to this sort of thing; my basic attitude is "I like you... Do you like me? If not then stop wasting my time". Imo you're either in or out, and if you don't indicate very clearly that you're in I will assume that you're out. I wasted too many years and suffered too much heartache from hanging around after guys who weren't even sure whether they liked me or not, and now that the clock is ticking in earnest I can't afford to do that any more.

 

 

 

I think what you're getting at it is that the guy has to come across as desirable, but him acting disinterested would not create that impression in my mind. I've always been looking for the big romance, fireworks from the second we meet, a meeting of the minds, all that stuff... Romeo did not say to Juliet "Meh, you're ok I suppose, but there's this other girl Rosaline that I also quite like..." No, he scaled the orchard wall and professed undying love... that's what I want (although I don't have an orchard, nor a wall for that matter; it's the principle of the thing that counts).

 

And because we live in a world of people that have abandoned traditional ideals for romance and love, doesn't mean that that does not still appeal to some of us: the few and the proud.

 

 

When it comes to being fun, different people have different ideas of what fun is. I'm aware that a lot of guys wouldn't enjoy the things I like, but I'm not about to change simply to appeal to a broader cross-section of men. A bottle of wine and a philosophical discussion in a quiet cafe would be my idea of heaven, but a lot of guys would find that deathly boring and would prefer to talk about reality tv or get drunk until they fall down. I respect their choice to enjoy different things to me, but I'm not about to pretend I'm the same as them, because I'm not... pretending to be someone else's ides of "fun" is something you could not keep up indefinitely anyway, and when the mask finally falls you're going to find that the two of you are actually incompatible on a fundamental level. Much better to be honest about who you are and find someone who loves you for that

 

To most guys, it's an emotional investment they are not willing to make. "Boys don't cry." I would rather invest myself in someone emotionally and fall flat on my face than be "arms length" with someone for the rest of my life. Chivalry and romance are not dead, it's just more rare than they used to be, and to me, more precious.

[Zansatsu]

You've experimented and found what you like. You are also tired of the challenge of bad-boys or the non-available. But the OP needs more experience before he can make similarly informed selections. Being a great guy with no experience doesn't count for much. Just being himself and waiting for a girl to see he's a keeper isn't working out for him.

 

If I have given the impression that I've had no experience, then I apologize. I've been around the merry-go-round of love a couple of times and I'm a little dizzy from the ride. I want to settle down and be done with dating.

 

 

He can either search through every last woman on earth to find one that likes him as he is or make a few subtle changes to the way he acts and have more choice, and more chance of landing a good LTR if that's what he wants. Acting hard-to-please and not being too eager are not exactly evil mind-games.

 

But they are games nonetheless and I'm tired of playing them.

 

 

But that's only part of my advice. I think his best option is to just add some sexual edge to what he already has going for him. Sexual confidence and a confident but could-care-less attitude when interacting with women would probably solve all of his problems. What's your advice?

 

Could-care-less implies carelessness, and I refuse to be passed off that way. I am a careful, sincere, and honest person and while the rest of the population likes to spend their energies playing games with each other, I find it to be exhausting. Everything would be much simpler if everyone would just cut to the chase instead of puting up a false front to attract other people. I might not be married, but at least every single one of my exes can tell you exactly what kind of man I am. They KNOW me.

[CLC2008]

OP, what's the longest RL you've been in?

[Zansatsu]

OP, what's the longest RL you've been in?

 

2.5 Years. Virtually married for all intents and purposes but not. Live with and all.

Edited November 1, 2009 by Zansatsu

[CLC2008]

Why did you two break-up?

[Zansatsu]

Why did you two break-up?

 

She wanted me to give her children when I was working minimum wage jobs with no education. She wanted me to be her mule and support her. I did not want to bring children into the world when I could not support them comfortably. We never saw eye-to-eye on this and she kept pushing me when I wasn't ready. I wanted to get my education so I could support a family, but she could not wait for me to finish college. She cheated on me and we were done.

[CLC2008]

Sorry to hear that.