Sensitive but strong male...

[Zansatsu]

Sorry to hear that.

 

It happens. I learned a lot from that experience. I don't believe I wasted time with her. Thanks for the empathy.

[CLC2008]

Well you need to go out there and find a woman you will knock your bobby socks off, and treat you well too. Hope you find it, I'll keep my fingers crossed for you

[Zansatsu]

Well you need to go out there and find a woman you will knock your bobby socks off, and treat you well too. Hope you find it, I'll keep my fingers crossed for you

 

Thank you!

[Thornton]

I don't treat a woman differently because she is a woman. If it were some guy that I was having a conversation with, they would either get my interest or not. I am straight, but I've found that women don't want to be treated differently because they were born with different physical equipment than me.

 

I think the mistake that many men make is to treat women like "women" rather than "human beings"; their fundamental error is to view a "friend" relationship as being entirely different from a "girlfriend" relationship. You would probably end up spending more time with a girlfriend than you would with any friend, so in theory your girlfriend should be your best friend, not someone whom you lie to and manipulate in order to gain her interest. The same goes for women who treat men as "boyfriends" instead of "best friends". In fact, I would argue that friendship and mutual respect is the only sound basis for a relationship, because if something happens to one of you and you become disfigured, disabled or unable to have sex for whatever reason, then a relationship based solely on sex or physical attraction would probably result in divorce. Of course physical attraction is necessary, as without it you would only have a friendship, not a relationship - I just don't think it should be the foundation of the partnership.

 

 

I can take and deliver a joke with the best of them, and I will playfully, but not degradingly tease someone. As someone who was a victim of bullies growing up, I prefer to raise someones esteem instead of lowering it to suit my needs.

Pretty much every intellectual person I know (including myself) was a victim of bullies in their youth. I think such experiences have a lasting effect on relationships later in life - perhaps it's partially the source of those feelings of being misunderstood and not expecting to find someone who you truly connect with, and the resulting lack of self esteem is certainly the reason why in the past I tolerated being treated badly in relationships.

 

 

I would rather invest myself in someone emotionally and fall flat on my face than be "arms length" with someone for the rest of my life.

I believe the saying is: It is better to have loved and lost, than never to have loved at all. I wholeheartedly agree Khalil Gibran said that the well from which our laughter rises has often been filled with our tears, and I would also add that a river flows faster when its passage is gouged more deeply. Avoiding to live fully due to fear is almost the same as not living at all. Sometimes pain can even be a beneficial thing - if Ernest Hemingway's girlfriend hadn't dumped him he would never have written "A Farewell to Arms" and become one of the foremost literary figures of the twentieth century.

[Zansatsu]

I think the mistake that many men make is to treat women like "women" rather than "human beings"; their fundamental error is to view a "friend" relationship as being entirely different from a "girlfriend" relationship. You would probably end up spending more time with a girlfriend than you would with any friend, so in theory your girlfriend should be your best friend, not someone whom you lie to and manipulate in order to gain her interest.

 

I push for this because I know how I would like to be treated and I just want someone who will stand by me and with me instead of in front or behind. I don't want someone to be my mother, but if I can't kiss her when the mood strikes, I don't see the point and become disillusioned. This comes out of relationships I've had where they insist on me "always being the man" (I do everything) or were so independent that they couldn't handle normal affection (I do everything wrong). I'm not talking about the smotherers who have to have their hands on their partner at every moment. I'm talking, "Hi hun, I haven't seen you for a while" kiss. She gives me her cheek... >.<

 

 

The same goes for women who treat men as "boyfriends" instead of "best friends". In fact, I would argue that friendship and mutual respect is the only sound basis for a relationship, because if something happens to one of you and you become disfigured, disabled or unable to have sex for whatever reason, then a relationship based solely on sex or physical attraction would probably result in divorce. Of course physical attraction is necessary, as without it you would only have a friendship, not a relationship - I just don't think it should be the foundation of the partnership.

 

Exactly.

 

 

Pretty much every intellectual person I know (including myself) was a victim of bullies in their youth. I think such experiences have a lasting effect on relationships later in life - perhaps it's partially the source of those feelings of being misunderstood and not expecting to find someone who you truly connect with, and the resulting lack of self esteem is certainly the reason why in the past I tolerated being treated badly in relationships.

 

Through the miracles of modern therapy, I'm working past a lot of things that still felt real to me after decades. It's nice to make them just memories and turn them into learning experiences instead of having them fester more. Therapy really helps. I don't feel misunderstood, or threatened by people, or as depressed anymore. I find myself laughing and joking more and while I still have more issues to work out, when I lance the abscesses on my emotional being, and allow them to see the light of day, it's a very powerful and cleansing experience. My therapist is the best.

 

Another joke:

I've often heard that our generation doesn't have emotional baggage;

It has emotional moving-vans.

 

 

I believe the saying is: It is better to have loved and lost, than never to have loved at all.

 

I didn't want to quote that because I don't think it captured my passion at that moment. I do agree though that bad experiences can be channeled into greater things. Unfortunately, we sit around lamenting for way too long, and not all of us have Hemmingway's outlet.

 

 

I wholeheartedly agree Khalil Gibran said that the well from which our laughter rises has often been filled with our tears, and I would also add that a river flows faster when its passage is gouged more deeply. Avoiding to live fully due to fear is almost the same as not living at all. Sometimes pain can even be a beneficial thing - if Ernest Hemingway's girlfriend hadn't dumped him he would never have written "A Farewell to Arms" and become one of the foremost literary figures of the twentieth century.

 

You are also saying that things happen for a reason. I've found that I was the only reason my life was going the way it was and if there is any one variable you know you can control in life, it is yourself. Maybe I needed to suffer to see that I needed to change things to grow. Hmm...

[Zansatsu]

And a quick side note: A great song called "Never Enough" by Five Finger Death Punch has a set of lines that kinda sum up how I feel about being myself and open.

 

I'd rather hate you for everything you are,

than ever love you, for something you are not.

I'd rather you hate me for everything I am,

than have you love me, for something that I can't.

 

Love me or hate me, at least when you know me, you know me.

 

Five Finger Death Punch = Awesome Gym Music

 

.

Edited November 2, 2009 by Zansatsu

[Mary3]

And a quick side note: A great song called "Never Enough" by Five Finger Death Punch has a set of lines that kinda sum up how I feel about being myself and open.

 

 

 

Love me or hate me, at least when you know me, you know me.

 

Five Finger Death Punch = Awesome Gym Music

 

.

 

Hey Z do you look like your Avatar ?

[Zansatsu]

Hey Z do you look like your Avatar ?

 

It's the face I see everyday...

[Thornton]

And a quick side note: A great song called "Never Enough" by Five Finger Death Punch has a set of lines that kinda sum up how I feel about being myself and open.

 

I listened to it on YouTube - catchy

 

I always had the same attitude, i.e. I preferred to be true to myself and be hated than pretend to be someone I'm not just to make people like me. I think that attitude was what made me unpopular as a teenager But I like myself the way I am and I have no desire to follow the crowd - only dead fish go with the flow.

[Zansatsu]

only dead fish go with the flow.

 

ROFL. I've never heard that! That is AWESOME!

[Thornton]

I push for this because I know how I would like to be treated and I just want someone who will stand by me and with me instead of in front or behind.

It's a very delicate balance - I don't want to be treated like I'm incapable (because I'm not) but at the same time I don't want to have to do everything myself (otherwise what's the point of the partnership). I don't want to carry someone else but neither do I want to feel like I'm tagging along behind them. I suppose I want to be appreciated for the things I'm good at and supported in the things I find more difficult, which I guess is what everyone wants in a relationship. Intellectual equality is particularly important to me; if that's lacking I feel like I can't fully communicate my thoughts to the person in question, I feel like they don't really understand me, and it manifests as a feeling of general inequality and disconnectedness. I guess everyone is looking for a partner who is somewhat like themselves, an equal who understands them and makes the world feel less empty... it's all about trying to break out of the prison of your senses and truly touch someone else. If someone "gets" you it's the best feeling in the world

 

 

Another joke:

I've often heard that our generation doesn't have emotional baggage;

It has emotional moving-vans.

Rofl I think I already had my quarter-life crisis, so hopefully I dropped some of my emotional baggage already.

 

 

I do agree though that bad experiences can be channeled into greater things. Unfortunately, we sit around lamenting for way too long, and not all of us have Hemmingway's outlet.

We are all our own worst enemy I try to channel some of my negativity into writing; it's cathartic, even if I'm not as talented as Hemingway.

 

 

I've found that I was the only reason my life was going the way it was and if there is any one variable you know you can control in life, it is yourself. Maybe I needed to suffer to see that I needed to change things to grow. Hmm...

You may be right there; I guess I never thought of it like that before. I am probably the reason for at least some of the things I dislike about my life; I'm in the process of identifying the things I can change and making positive steps towards dealing with them, while at the same time trying not to beat myself up about it all being my fault. Beating myself up serves no purpose anyway, other than making me feel bad and preventing me from getting on with making positive progress.

[CLC2008]

And a quick side note: A great song called "Never Enough" by Five Finger Death Punch has a set of lines that kinda sum up how I feel about being myself and open.

 

 

 

Love me or hate me, at least when you know me, you know me.

 

Five Finger Death Punch = Awesome Gym Music

 

.

 

I don't agree fully with this statement. It's like saying to someone "well I have this or that about me, that may not be a good trait to have, but I can't change it and if you don't like it, tough".

 

It just seems like a VERY ridged way of thinking.

 

And why would someone want to be hated anyway? Do you personally enjoy when people are angry or mad at you? Whether or not it's your fault or theirs?

 

If your answer is "they can go f* themselves", then that sounds like an awefully big chip to carry around .

[Thornton]

ROFL. I've never heard that! That is AWESOME!

 

Tis true Fate is a tide of events sweeping us along, but you can swim against it if you are so inclined. If you don't, you just drift downstream with all the other dead fish, and watch as your opportunities float by and escape into the realm of "might have been".

[In_Repair]

It's easier to talk online than in-person, and the random pickup has NEVER worked for me. I have not tried in years and I'd rather not. It works for some men, not me. I feel soo.... cliche and.... soiled, if I do that.

 

Now striking up casual conversation at random with a stranger, that's easier and after about 5 minutes I know whether I'm interested or not. But again, that could be just me talking myself out of possible trouble... hmm... that's something to consider.

 

That's what I'm talking about. Just talk to women IRL more, and when they give you positive feedback... ask them out for a drink or coffee. Don't shy away and beat around the bush. If she mentions a hobby, use that, ask her to go to an event that involves it... dinner, a movie... anything. You'll get lots of dates that way, depending on how relentless you are. You'll learn more about yourself, you'll evolve, you'll have fun... and eventually you will connect with someone.

 

Don't worry about rejection. If they are nice about it, then what's the problem? If they are rude... then be rude right back, or I guess you could take the high road and remain dignified. Either way, just shrug it off and move on to the next one.

[Thornton]

I don't agree fully with this statement. It's like saying to someone "well I have this or that about me, that may not be a good trait to have, but I can't change it and if you don't like it, tough".

 

Of course you should be open to positive change, but sometimes the things that people dislike about you aren't negative traits that you wish to change. Take my youth as an example: I didn't much like being unpopular, but I was not prepared to behave badly and smoke and take drugs simply to fit in with the cool kids; I preferred to stay true to my own morals and simply be unpopular. In the same way, I'm not prepared to pretend to be stupid in order to pacify a man who doesn't want an intelligent girlfriend, I'm not prepared to pretend I like or dislike certain things just to fit in with a certain group of people, I'm not prepared to act against my morals just because everyone else does it. I am who I am, and I already spent enough of my life feeling bad about not fitting in - maybe I'm a geek, maybe some people find me boring, maybe my clothes aren't fashionable - but that's who I am, take it or leave it.

[Zansatsu]

I don't agree fully with this statement. It's like saying to someone "well I have this or that about me, that may not be a good trait to have, but I can't change it and if you don't like it, tough".

 

It just seems like a VERY ridged way of thinking.

 

Actually it's the opposite. I cannot control what people think about me. I want to be the best person I can be, but I realize that there will be people that will find something about me they don't like and if I don't believe I'm being unreasonable, then it is an "oh well" situation. I'm not going to bendover backwards for the angry guy in traffic who flipped me off because he had a bad day. I will always try to see something through someone else eyes, but I've also encountered my fair share of manipulators and I think that as long as I'm not hurting anyone, why should I have to dance on their strings?

 

 

And why would someone want to be hated anyway? Do you personally enjoy when people are angry or mad at you? Whether or not it's your fault or theirs?

 

You are missing the principle of the statement. I'm going to be who I am and if someone doesn't like me for it, that is their decision. I have my own life to live and I can't control the way people think. The only thing I can control is my action or inaction. It's not like I'm picking a fight with someone. If I step on anyone's toes, I will apologize. I'm human and I make mistakes, but again, I would bet that I'm probably viewed as weak for being sensitive, and that is there opinion, but I'm not going to apologize for that. Me being the person I am, without taking any action against someone else is something I should not have to apologize for. Have you ever just been disliked just for existing? It's not a pleasant experience.

 

 

If your answer is "they can go f* themselves", then that sounds like an awefully big chip to carry around .

 

No, it's about being assertive and it would be more like, "I'm sorry you feel that way and I wish you well, just leave me be."

[Zansatsu]

That's what I'm talking about. Just talk to women IRL more, and when they give you positive feedback... ask them out for a drink or coffee. Don't shy away and beat around the bush. If she mentions a hobby, use that, ask her to go to an event that involves it... dinner, a movie... anything. You'll get lots of dates that way, depending on how relentless you are. You'll learn more about yourself, you'll evolve, you'll have fun... and eventually you will connect with someone.

 

Don't worry about rejection. If they are nice about it, then what's the problem? If they are rude... then be rude right back, or I guess you could take the high road and remain dignified. Either way, just shrug it off and move on to the next one.

 

Sounds like we were talking on the same side of the fence my friend.

[Thornton]

That's what I'm talking about. Just talk to women IRL more, and when they give you positive feedback... ask them out for a drink or coffee. Don't shy away and beat around the bush.

 

If someone approached me like that I'd assume they were basing their dinner/coffee invitation on finding me physically attractive, and I'd decline on principle. I would only date someone with whom I felt there was an intellectual connection or rapport, i.e. I want someone to ask me on a date because they like me, not because they like my face/hair/legs etc. I'm tired of guys who think I'm pretty but boring

[Zansatsu]

@ CLC2008

 

Also... Another point I was trying to make with that statement was that I don't believe in misrepresenting myself and giving someone a false sense of who I am just to get them to love me.

 

I would always prefer honesty and knowing someone fully, rather than fall in-love with an "idea" of a person through deception:

 

I'd rather hate you for everything you are,

than ever love you, for something you are not.

I'd rather you hate me for everything I am,

than have you love me, for something that I can't.

[Zansatsu]

If someone approached me like that I'd assume they were basing their dinner/coffee invitation on finding me physically attractive, and I'd decline on principle. I would only date someone with whom I felt there was an intellectual connection or rapport, i.e. I want someone to ask me on a date because they like me, not because they like my face/hair/legs etc. I'm tired of guys who think I'm pretty but boring

 

You see, but if I approached you and we got into philosophical would you turn me down if I asked you to dinner or coffee to continue the conversation?

[Thornton]

You see, but if I approached you and we got into philosophical would you turn me down if I asked you to dinner or coffee to continue the conversation?

 

No, that's different... you would be asking me to dinner because you find me interesting and want to continue the conversation, i.e. you like me and if I look nice then that's a bonus. I'm talking about guys who approach you cold, make random smalltalk and then ask you on a date without ascertaining anything about your personality or establishing any common ground, so the date invitation is obviously based on them liking your looks and nothing else.

 

To clarify: I mean the sort of guys who, as In Repair suggested, ask you out and then move onto the next random girl if you say no. That's like saying people are interchangeable, and one pretty girl is as good as the next. It's rare for me to meet a guy that I genuinely find interesting, and I'd like to be that rare and fascinating jewel for him as well, not just the next pretty face who he asks for a date.

Edited November 2, 2009 by Thornton
Clarification

[Zansatsu]

No, that's different... you would be asking me to dinner because you find me interesting and want to continue the conversation, i.e. you like me and if I look nice then that's a bonus. I'm talking about guys who approach you cold, make random smalltalk and then ask you on a date without ascertaining anything about your personality or establishing any common ground, so the date invitation is obviously based on them liking your looks and nothing else.

 

To clarify: I mean the sort of guys who, as In Repair suggested, ask you out and then move onto the next random girl if you say no. That's like saying that people are interchangeable, and one pretty girl is as good as the next.

 

I would spend the time to get to know you even if I approached you at random but I would ask you to dinner if we had stimulating conversation because I've met women that were drop-dead gorgeous but couldn't hold up a conversation to save them... and they were ultimately never pursued further. I've also met women who could seduce me with their personalities, but I wasn't attracted to them, although they were much more tempting to me than the drop-dead ones because we connected. The human brain is the largest sexual organ in the body. If she was attractive and formidably intelligent, I would have to try to keep a cool head, but inside I would be a "Molten Core" (yes that is a WoW pun, lol). If it went further and we progressed, she would learn just what she does to me... in a very good way of course.

[In_Repair]

Thornton, you are misunderstanding me here a little. Besides your physical appearance, what else do you expect a stranger to act on? The date is an opportunity to get to know them, see if you want to continue dating them. This whole idea about making some sort of special connection with someone before you even go on a first date is just silly. Sure, it happens... but how has that been working out for you so far?

 

And yes... as a man, if you get rejected, then you move on to the next person. What is the alternative? Sitting around alone, wondering why you can't find a date? I can't speak for women, although I do enjoy it when a woman makes the first move.

[Mary3]

It's the face I see everyday...

 

Sooo you are as HOT as the pic ?

[Thornton]

Lol @ the WoW pun (I am easily amused )

 

I'm happy to talk to people at random because you never know who you might meet, but I would be rather dubious of someone who asked me on a date when our conversation had not revealed a mental connection between us. Not only would I not want to date him, I would also question his motives for wanting to date me.

 

Like you, I'd be more inclined to date the smart and interesting person who wasn't so good looking, rather than the gorgeous guy with nothing going on upstairs. An attractive person with formidable intelligence is a rare find indeed, and someone who is all of that plus kind/fun/compassionate/committed etc is rarer than astatine