Sometimes there is no "evil wife"!

[moaningmyrtle]

I'm pleased my support thread got so many reponses.

 

I'd like to tell my story.

 

I sense a lot of the time that many OW really do think their MMs would be with them except for the manipulation by, and dependency of the wife and children.

 

My H and I have been married 15 years and have 2 teenage children. Our relationship had ups and downs but basically we were (I thought) a reasonably functional family. We have always had comments about how nice our children are and how obvious it is that they come from a loving and caring family. They are the only grandchildren on both sides of our family and they adore, and are adored by their grandparents, aunts and uncles. We have no money worries and no problems with alcohol, other drugs, mental conditions or anything. We both work in professional jobs - me part-time and my H full-time.

 

To be honest our sex life had waned over the years and I will admit that we were almost a sexless marriage - averaging perhaps 10-12 times a year in the last 8 years prior to d-day. This again I have to admit was mainly down to me.

 

My H commenced an A with a married woman about 7 years ago and d-day was a year ago. A few days before d-day I noticed him closing the computer down quickly when I came into the room and after some questioning he admitted he'd been chatting on-line with another woman. He promised me then that he had always been physically faithful to me. I was horrified and immediately realised that our low frequency sex life probably had something to do with it. From that day on we have had a very active sex life - averaging now 4-5 times per week - this has gone on for over a year now. I can assure everyone that this has been great for me.

 

But sadly that was not all. A week or so later, after we resurrected our sex life (ie a week after I caught him chatting) I decided there were enough suspicions for me to go snooping and I did. I found an e-mail account I had not known about and in it found his e-mail exchanges with the OW he had been having the A with. About a week before I had first caught him out she had sent a brief e-mail about a lunch they'd just had signing it "love always". His response was an e-mail in which he declared that he had always loved her and though about her constantly. When confronted with this he confessed that they had started their affair more than 6 years earlier and that although she was married for most of the time she had recently become single.

 

I'm sure all the BW here can identify with my utter grief and devastation at this. My legs would barely hold me up and my stomach was cramping uncontrollably. It was truly the most awful experience of my life. I had no real idea about infidelity but automatically assumed that my marriage was over, given that she was now single and given their recently declared love for each other.

 

I was in no position to think rationally about anything. It was particularly hurtful because I had already decided that I must make our sex life a priority (rather than on the back burner) if we were to survive as a couple and my H had appeared to embrace this really wholeheartedly. It was not a direct response to the A as I didn't even know about it - it was more that I had become aware that an A would happen if I wasn't willing to make changes.

 

It was totally surreal when my H begged me not to end our marriage telling me he had always loved me and that his expressed feelings for the OW were "not real, just a fantasy, would never survive the light of exposure". None of this shows him in a good light I know and they didn't then either as how on earth was I supposed to somehow believe what he'd told her was incorrect and what he was telling me was right?

 

He asked me if he could send her an e-mail ending it and I agreed. So he sent the OW an e-mail that night telling her I'd found out, that he loved me, wanted to stay with me and that he would not contact her again, asking her not to contact him. She did subsequently contact him expecting him not to tell me, but he did.

 

One year on we are still riding the roller-coaster but the troughs are getting less - the highs are still good. The OW, I hear, is sad and crying - still.

 

Having joined LS I sometimes do wonder about her - is she imagining that my H is pining after her and in the thrall of his evil wife? I don't really know.

 

I went to visit her once about 6 months ago. She was ordinary and sad but still seemed to think my H was staying only for the children - at least at the start of our conversation. We had never met before, but I'm fairly sure that she wouldn't have found me to be a monster. She said she thought my H and I obviously belonged together. I don't really know if she was being serious or facetious as I don't know her well enough.

 

I'm not really seeking advice and certainly not looking for support as I'm not an OW.

 

But I would like OW to know that it wouldn't surprise me if our situation is not unusual - especially after looking into this so much more in the last year. What does surprise me though is that so many OW do not want to believe that where they are in long-term As and the MM is not leaving then it's probably because he doesn't want to.

 

If a relationship has died then people move on including married ones - I have this feeling that if more OW insisted that the BW be informed of the A then they would really find out where their MM's loyalties lie and whether the marriage is dead.

 

Myrtle

Edited October 21, 2009 by moaningmyrtle

[Fallen Angel]

Myrtle,

 

I am sorry for the pain you have had to (and still do) endure. I know the fact that I am still in my A with a MM may make you doubt that, but for my part, it is true.

 

I don't know that all or even most of us OWs believe that the wife is evil. I think sometimes people WANT to believe that, but to my mind, that would make me wonder even more why the MM stays.

 

My MM has never said an unkind word about his W. I know that is not typical of many MM in affairs, but in my case it is true. He says he loves her. He says she has been a good wife, having never done anything to make him hate her. He says she has been a great mother to his children.

 

But, he also says he fell in love with me.

 

My MM has been a serial cheater through his entire marriage. He has admitted that to me freely. I was supposed to be one of many. By the time he found me, he had perfected his "game". Because of his job he is rarely at home, and so has been able to carry on his many affairs without the OWs ever learning that he was married at all. Except for the few that have been "friends of the family" and already knew.

 

He says he has never fallen in love with one of his OW before, and since I have spoken with two of his previous OWs and they say that he was always upfront with them that he was not looking for anything serious, and they say he NEVER even came close to saying "I love you" to them, I tend to believe him.

 

I have asked him why he cheats. He says he does not know why he did it to begin with, but states the reason he stays with me is because he fell in love. *shrug*

 

I have asked him why he stays in his marriage. He says it is because she has been a good wife and has done him no wrong that he feels it is his duty to stay until their last child is grown. That it is his obligation to fulfill.

 

I have asked him if when his son is grown if things will be different. He says that he is sure they will, but that he doesn't think I will wait that long and it is not fair of him to ask me to wait. But he does ask me to wait. Everytime I try to say goodbye, he asks me not to leave him.

 

I would like to think that she is some evil troll that is holding him at gunpoint. But that is not the truth. I think some OWs need to tell themselves that the W is horrible to be able to carry on the affair. If she is evil, then what we do is not so bad, see? If she is the devil incarnate then we (OW and MM) are her victim, instead of her being our victim. I can understand wanting to believe that.

 

She is just a victim of his lies. I am a victim of his lies. If I had known he was married I would have never been involved with him.

 

I am grateful though that he doesn't tell lies saying that she is horrible. It shows me that he has the capacity to be honest and to show compassion. Though it would be easier if I could hate her.

 

*sigh*

 

As someone posted on another thread... "infidelity SUCKS"

[wheelwright]

I can imagine the BW from my EMA feeling just like you. But I never saw her as the evil wife. It just looked to me like the marriage was dead. They did not seem to be a good fit together, and neither were happy in the M.

 

Now, after DDay, and as far as I know, they are building a closer more intimate M together. I know she has felt a lot of pain. Everyone involved has. But if it weren't for the A, they never would have reached the crisis necessary to become closer.

 

I wish them luck, for their sakes and their children. I was happy to be involved with MM while his M was dead. Once he reconnected with his W I couldn't do it. Perhaps OW are happy to be involved in the disruption of an unhappy M, but this doesn't mean they see the W as 'evil'.

 

Oh, and to Fallen Angel. Be careful. I am sure your MM loves you, but he may choose still to stay with his W after his kids are gone. There will be grandchildren. Visits. It would be a very dangerous game to wait, and I would set yourself a very firm time limit if I were you (which I nearly was!).

[MizFit]

I don't consider my MMs W to be evil...like Fallen Angel my MM has never spoken an unkind word about his wife. She doesn't like sex and has a rosy picture that he's accepted it and her life goes on...he's allowed her to believe that and looked outside the marriage for what she isn't providing. In walked me and poof...we're in love. He's not going to leave her no matter how good we are together. They have been married many years and that is his life...I think what we have confuses him sometimes, but never will to the point he's going to leave.

 

I have no ill feelings towards her, but by the same token I have no guilt to what's happening to her either. She made a conscious decision to restrict him in a part of his life that is important and he's acting on it...he continues to try and resolve it...she continues to ignore it. That struggle is between them...no matter what passes I'll never feel like she was evil nor will I ever feel guilty as to my role.

 

I think sometimes wives also need to remember as well there are OW who are good women and aren't harlots leading their innocent men astray. We all see things through our own perspectives...all of us are guilty of that. Some of us may have lived both sides of it and it does help.

[RedDevil66]

I am a victim of his lies. If I had known he was married I would have never been involved with him.

 

Are you kidding me!?!?!?!

You're calling yourself a victim. You're a victim of your very deep denial, period!

[2sure]

Prior to marrying my current husband, I was OW several times over.

During EACH of these affairs, the MM spoke of loving me, being connected to me, being neglected at home, staying for the kids etc.

 

All of that was an essential part of the affair (to them). Required for two reasons: 1. Justification for cheating 2. A real affair needs to have that Romantic/Emotional element to complete the picture.

 

I saw it for what it was, made it work for me , and the feelings for the most part were not returned to that degree. I didnt even have to fake it because they created it all by themselves. To be honest, I usually felt like I could be anyone.

 

After the affairs ended, I'm sure each of them moved on to other OW, I know none of them are divorced to this day and I also know that their marriages are not unhappy...they have the same ups and downs at the same times as every marriage. The affairs were just a selfish needy gimme.

 

I guess thats why when I remarried and my H cheated...Although I have the same outrage and pain...I did not long linger on what MY problem was or OW, I knew that to him the cheating was not a threat to the marriage, or an indication of anything except selfishness.

 

Sometimes there isnt a lot to figure out. An ass is an ass.

[howcouldInotknow]

Its so hard for me to comment on situations like this because I dont feel that my situation was the typical OW/MM situation. Do I feel like his wife was evil? No I do not think she is otherwise they would not have reconciled especially after being apart for so long. Is he happy? Maybe he is sometimes. But does it really matter? No at the end of the day she is his wife and I am not

[2sure]

I sense a bit of passive agressive joy in this idea that the OW is crying and hoping your H is still pining for her. Not very nice, IMO.

 

Misty, I'm sure you're right that some BS feel that way - probably all Initially. But I also think that feeling is a knee jerk reaction , which fades.

More importantly, I think we want to make note here that its also maybe stereotypical thinking. It goes along with the feeling that OW and BS are in some kind of competition...when really that usually isnt the case at all.

 

I have spoken to several of my own H's OW. I feel sincere sympathy for those that were most lied to. I hurt for them. Personally. And I am nothing special, no bleeding heart, just a wife.

[2sure]

I just feel like we're all getting screwed here somehow.

We can all own and recognize the mistakes and lessons from being OW.

We can all accept and acknowledge as BS what we did or didnt to to protect our marriages. OK.

 

But you know...still - it comes down to something else. I'm not yet sure what, and I'm not much of a finger pointer.

[MizFit]

Yeah and you know - it's a pointless endeavor anyway. The important thing is - Now what?

 

 

Good question...I liken it to war over religion. It is something that will always happen...always has and always will. I've been both a BS and OW and quite frankly they both stink.

[OWoman]

but sometimes the W really is kinda evil.

 

no "kinda" in my case - my H's xW was full-on scare-the-pants-off-Sauron evil! (Well, she still is - but it's less of an issue for us now she's an x)

 

I sense a bit of passive agressive joy in this idea that the OW is crying and hoping your H is still pining for her.

 

Schadenfreude can be tasty, sometimes - whenever I find my anger bubbling about some outrage the evil xW has committed, the thought of her sitting alone with her bottle and cats makes me feel a little better. At least she's getting back some of the evil she puts out.

[Spoiled]

I knew my xAP's W was not "evil" because we were close friends. Before I go any further let me say that my x-friend was a caring, loving, God-fearing, patient, and honest woman.

 

My friendship with her(prior to the A) did allow true insight into her personality and reasons why he possibly gravitated toward me. Prior to her diagnosis of a debilitating disease, something was always wrong with her. Consistently complained of pain, headaches, and more. I refrained from calling her often because it was draining at times. After the birth of their children, she experienced serious postpartum depression. From both of their mouths, this was an awful experience for them. Her experiences with medications lessened her self esteem due to hair loss, weight gain, forgetfulness, etc. Again from both of them, he was typically very encouraging and complimentary toward her. You can tell someone over and over how attractive they are but they also have to believe.

 

All of this requires great compassion and patience. However, chronic illnesses, hospitalizations, negativity, and depression can really take a toll on family members(for them lasting for past six years).

 

She never wanted to be away from their children and their was no schedule for them. I'll never forget a moment we encountered with them years before the A. He was angry about their vacation because she did not want to leave the child with family. With his inconsistent work hours, they rarely had any time together without the children. I used to encourage her during our friendship to spend time to herself and make time for her H without children. Her response, "It hurts me to be away from them, I just can't leave them."

 

In all this, xAP was feeling mentally and physically depleted, not a priority, and unhappy for a long time prior to A. He longed for laughter and refreshing conversation, sexual excitement, attention, appreciation, and mostly an escape from all the stress. He wanted to go to the movies or lunch a time a two without children. I was feeling neglected and emotionally abandoned by my H despite my typically positive and upbeat attitude. My xAP appreciated my sense of humor and enthusiasm and admired me for having social outlets and efforts to make time for my H. Of course an A was not the solution to solve our problems and we regret it terribly. Our spouses are not to blame, we made the choice.

 

Sorry so lengthy. My whole point, no the BS in my situation was not "evil" but there were some issues from BOTH that created unhappiness within the M.

[fooled once]

I don't consider my MMs W to be evil...like Fallen Angel my MM has never spoken an unkind word about his wife. She doesn't like sex and has a rosy picture that he's accepted it and her life goes on...he's allowed her to believe that and looked outside the marriage for what she isn't providing. In walked me and poof...we're in love. He's not going to leave her no matter how good we are together. They have been married many years and that is his life...I think what we have confuses him sometimes, but never will to the point he's going to leave.

 

I have no ill feelings towards her, but by the same token I have no guilt to what's happening to her either. She made a conscious decision to restrict him in a part of his life that is important and he's acting on it...he continues to try and resolve it...she continues to ignore it. That struggle is between them...no matter what passes I'll never feel like she was evil nor will I ever feel guilty as to my role.

 

I think sometimes wives also need to remember as well there are OW who are good women and aren't harlots leading their innocent men astray. We all see things through our own perspectives...all of us are guilty of that. Some of us may have lived both sides of it and it does help.

 

And you know she doesn't like sex how? Because her cheating husband told you?

 

Maybe she did like sex, but not with him? Maybe he just wanted to pump and go and not have any foreplay? Depending on her age, many times women 'dry up' and need additional lubrication and time. Maybe he wasn't willing to do it? Maybe sex HURT - I had that with my ex - he kept hitting my cervix and so sex was very painful.

 

Maybe she has a medical issue which slowed/stopped her sex drive?

 

There are any number of reasons why she doesn't like sex, per her cheating husband.

[Dexter Morgan]

Sometimes there is no "evil wife"!

 

 

 

But there has to be....there just HAS to be. the wife HAS to obviously be evil....right?

[moaningmyrtle]

Sometimes there is no "evil wife"!

 

 

 

But there has to be....there just HAS to be. the wife HAS to obviously be evil....right?

 

 

Acknowledging that one has been "left" by one's partner for someone he loves more whether you be BW or OW is extremely painful.

 

If a MM leaves his wife for the OW, then realistically everyone including the BW is forced to acknowledge that he loves the OW more.

 

But when a MM stays with his W, how many OW are willing to attribute it to the fact that he loves the W more?

 

Better to either believe the wife is evil, or that somehow he still loves the OW more but is sacrificing himself for his children or whatever.

 

The strangest thins is that men who have affairs to supplement something missing in their marriages are really the least self-sacrificing people around, so it is entirely out-of-character for them to stay in unhappy marriages for the sake of children, reputation, status, finances etc.

 

I think it just goes to show how horrible it is for an OW to have to face such a thing, that she simply has to believe that he really loves her more.

 

We all know that whoever he ends up with he loves himself the most.

 

Myrtle

[jj33]

"Obligation." I'm betting that if he ever does leave her, she's not going to be too happy about this idea that he stayed with her and wasted decades of her life out of obligation, rather than love. Wasting her life, and yours, is probably the most selfish aspect of all. It is not martyrdom to stay in a marriage "for the kids". I believe it is in fact, just the opposite. Martyrdom would involve actually giving something up, (setting you free to find someone who can be good to you?), actual sacrifice. Right now, he gives up nothing and continues to enjoy having it both ways.

 

Thats so well put Misty.

 

Myrtle. It seems that this thread is intended to to "teach" the OW about what is really going on while gloating about the success of your own situatoin.

 

I am pleased for you that you and your H were able to work things out.

 

And Im sure your H stayed because he really does love you best.

 

But that is not always the case. People marry for many reasons and they stay married for many reasons and love is not always the driving force.

 

So your consternatoin - why dont OWs see that if the man stays with his W it is really because he loves her best seems to be a vast overgeneralizatoin.

 

Could it be that thou dost protesteth too much? I hope that you find more peace in your marriage so that you dont continue to feel the need to gloat to others.

[howcouldInotknow]

Well moaning in my case I acknowledged the fact that he must love her more than me otherwise he wouldn't have went back to her. I dont know much about her. I do know she cheated and she left him thats about it. But like I said he wouldn't have back if she was that bad

[moaningmyrtle]

Thats so well put Misty.

 

Myrtle. It seems that this thread is intended to to "teach" the OW about what is really going on while gloating about the success of your own situation.

 

I am pleased for you that you and your H were able to work things out.

 

And Im sure your H stayed because he really does love you best.

 

But that is not always the case. People marry for many reasons and they stay married for many reasons and love is not always the driving force.

 

So your consternatoin - why dont OWs see that if the man stays with his W it is really because he loves her best seems to be a vast overgeneralizatoin.

 

Could it be that thou dost protesteth too much? I hope that you find more peace in your marriage so that you dont continue to feel the need to gloat to others.

 

You seem to agree that a MM having an A is less likely to be the martyred and self-sacrificing type.

 

Yet you consider I'm gloating over something that has been the biggest tragedy of my life.

 

However those OW who responded to the effect that the MM loves them more, was not seen by you as a form of gloating over the poor BW who is just stayed with for the sake of the kids or whatever?

 

Perhaps it is just too much to expect BS and OW to agree on this. Simply too painful for all.

[howcouldInotknow]

Well said JJ

 

 

In moanings case he probably did love her more but in most cases the matter is more complex than just love. There are kids, schools, homes, money, and so many other factors that staying is easier than leaving. My parents are living proof of this. For the last 6 years before they finally divorced there was no sex no nothing other than what they had accumulated together and the kids and for those reasons they stuck it out. And where is my dad today? happily in love with his OW

Edited October 22, 2009 by howcouldInotknow

[Fallen Angel]

However those OW who responded to the effect that the MM loves them more, was not seen by you as a form of gloating over the poor BW who is just stayed with for the sake of the kids or whatever?

 

Myrtle,

 

I hope that you do not think I was 'gloating', if I came off that way to you I sincerely apologize.

 

I have stated in this thread and in others that My MM has said he DOES love his wife. As to why he says he stays, that is what HE says, not words I have put in his mouth. I was just telling my story in response to what you wrote, I really did not intend it to come off as me saying anything disrespectful to you.

[mybrowneyedgirl]

His BW didnt start off evil, actually quite the opposite. but after what she went through with the A she is one scary B****. im scared to death of her!

[Spoiled]

But when a MM stays with his W, how many OW are willing to attribute it to the fact that he loves the W more?

 

What do you mean by he loves the W more? Never sat down and considered this a reason for me staying in my M. I did think about how I once was happy in my M and all of the wonderful experiences we shared. I was not at all head over heels for my H at d-day, but I figured it was worth the try to regain the happiness and love that once existed. Of course I love my H but it was not my ultimate decision to stay. If our M does not get better, will I stay and waste our precious time for decades? NO!

Better to either believe the wife is evil, or that somehow he still loves the OW more but is sacrificing himself for his children or whatever.

 

The strangest thins is that men who have affairs to supplement something missing in their marriages are really the least self-sacrificing people around, so it is entirely out-of-character for them to stay in unhappy marriages for the sake of children, reputation, status, finances etc.

 

I think it just goes to show how horrible it is for an OW to have to face such a thing, that she simply has to believe that he really loves her more.

 

As a xMOW, I stayed in my M for multiple reasons. I did sacrifice some of my desires to keep my family unit intact. I was very unhappy for almost two years prior to my A and asked my H a few times after d-day if he wanted me to leave. He said "NO" each time and wanted to reconnect emotionally, just like you suddenly wanted to give your H more sex. I "left" my xMOM to try to reconcile my UNHAPPY M, especially knowing my H was willing.

 

I stayed because of what we built together financially. I stayed to maintain my reputation in my community, church, and profession. There were things missing in my M in which my xAP supplemented a year for me.

There are times I sit with my family and think about my xAP. There are times in which I make love to my H and I think about my xAP. There are times in which I am sad and want to contact my xAP. Why can a MM who stays not ever think like this???

 

Because I am a MW and I stayed for various reasons. Why can a MM not stay for the same reasons????

[Spoiled]

Well said JJ

 

 

In moanings case he probably did love her more but in most cases the matter is more complex than just love. There are kids, schools, homes, money, and so many other factors that staying is easier than leaving. My parents are living proof of this. For the last 6 years before they finally divorced there was no sex no nothing other than what they had accumulated together and the kids and for those reasons they stuck it out. And where is my dad today? happily in love with his OW

 

I know several couples like also. Just there out of obligation. One recently divorced and said, "I was here while they were growing up, they are out the house, my time is up!" Friend's parents who sleep in separate rooms and argue like hell for years. She even suggest they leave each other, but no, they are still there.

[mybrowneyedgirl]

i have lots of reasons for staying. one is my H is a great guy and i dont think i could ever find someone like that. also are my kids, our finances and just the logistics of being together. we're certainly not the loving happy couple that we once were, but as i see it as long as we try then theres a chance that it will someday be what it once was. and no amount of time is too long to waste for me to try to make it work. because in the end the only thing i'll lose is time, but theres the potential to end up as great or better than we once were. and i would give all the time in the world for that gain.

[moaningmyrtle]

Myrtle,

 

I hope that you do not think I was 'gloating', if I came off that way to you I sincerely apologize.

 

I have stated in this thread and in others that My MM has said he DOES love his wife. As to why he says he stays, that is what HE says, not words I have put in his mouth. I was just telling my story in response to what you wrote, I really did not intend it to come off as me saying anything disrespectful to you.

 

No as a matter of fact I didn't perceive any gloating - including none by me. Believe me I have nothing to gloat over - I don't consider myself a "winner" with an absolute prize of a husband. Prize of an a** maybe.

 

What I was commenting on was that the only accusation of "gloating" was leveled at me. As well as some attributions of motive and personality traits by somebody else. I don't believe I made any personal remarks to anybody about this to warrant these responses.

 

Back on track, I bet there are many MM men who give a slightly different "slant" to their OW and BW, on why they stay married. "I love you more, but ... have to stay because (to the OW)... or had to get my needs met elsewhere (to the BW)..." is a great one to use on both women simultaneously. There are enough OW on this board that have heard that one from their MM and I'm sure a number of BW's have heard it too. As few get to directly compare notes with each other it's hard to know, but certainly reading LS is an eye-opener about it. So many variations on the same pattern/theme.