Why doesn't she want to give us a second chance? (girls at LS, this is for you)

[muse08]

..I asked for a second chance, to go out on some dates and make her fall in love with me again (which I could easily do!) but she refused...

 

i feel some of your pain bobbe.i'm a female and i've been through this situation many times where the guy will try to "make" me love him or care again. it could possibly work when you (the guy) hasn't done anything to betray trust or disrespect the female.otherwise, you're wasting your time.you could be honest abe, but if she's no longer attracted to you or dated you b/c she was LONELY then it still may not work. just depends on your individual relationship details, you know.

 

...however...for starters, you can't MAKE a woman fall in love w/ you again. she will do so naturally if she really loves you still. plus, if you have to "make" someone love you then you should feel really cheap b/c you should wonder if they are acting on their own terms or do they feel forced. maybe as guys, you all feel a sense of accomplishment when you think you've "made" a woman love you or convinced her, etc. but the reality is that if you have to convince a woman to love you again then i probably won't last more than a minute...

 

i'm not trying to be harsh,i'm only saying this to let you know that anything is possible. and if she does choose to come back to you, you can still stay in touch with her but you cant be too forceful or play games in the midst of trying to woo her. let things happen naturally. i'm female, but she has to give a little as well. it can't just be you all the time, unless you did something really wrong to her that you're not telling us about.in that case you will probably need to pursue her for a while and then just MAYBE she'll come back;).otherwise she may resent you.

Edited October 22, 2009 by muse08

[symbol]

Stage 1 for me was quite short because I'm particularly keen on avoiding self-deception even to the point of self-destruction. I completely skipped Stage 2 and some of my friends were worried about me because of that.

 

As for Stage 3, I think most of that stage was subconscious. I was changing certain things in my life not really to get him back but because I thought they were good for me. In retrospect, yes, they were good for the most part but I think I was really doing them as a way of bargaining with him. Oh, well...

 

Unfortunately Stage 4 was quite long. Two years after the breakup, I was chatting with my best friend and I started laughing because of some funny thing. I will never forget my best friend's reaction. She held my hand and said "The old you is finally back!"...

 

Currently at Stage 5, was back at 4 for a week because he's visiting my web page but hope to stay at 5 from now on...

[muse08]

hmmm.just skimmed through your initial thread about your breakup.thanks for the link. i'm now able to know a bit about the bkground of your relationship.

 

i think she sounds like many women, including myself. she probably just got to a point where she realized that the relationship wouldn't change and you wouldn't change. she didn't want to try to change you because she probably wanted to love you for who you were, but she couldn't when you were disappointing her and treating her badly. it wouldn't be fair for you to expect anyone to accept that kind of treatment.

 

sometimes, guys have to realize that you can't do things the way you want and expect your S.O. to be ok with it and still love you, if they're not being treated fairly by you. you guys do this and regret it later...it happens all too often. i know from experience. my ex works a lot and to me he would sleep walk through life and sometimes be too tired to do things he promised. that's a big NO NO, for a woman...well for me anyway. don't make promises you can't keep and don't expect a woman to be by your side unconditionally when she's not happy and you know it!

 

we all deserve to be happy and treated well(men and women)...someones there are no 2nd chances so you have to treat people right the first time...

[Bobbe]

I don't expect anyone to accept that kind of treatment. But it was NOT on purpose, I did not ask to have insomnia! and it's NOT the real me, it's not who I really am! And I did try to change it, I went many times to the doctor, took pills, etc.. Nothing worked If only I had found my current therapy, wich IS helping:D, much earlier..

 

I always felt guilty when I let her down, I never ever took her for granted!

When she said I was the one (10 days before the break-up), she was determined to help me find a cure, she said we would solve my problem together. She had talked to a friend who said she shouldn't give up just yet and that I wouldn't be like this forever.

 

If she broke up with me 3 months ago, I would believe everything was lost. Then we had our absolute low point in our relationship and she was much more distant than she was in the last month. Our last month was one of the better ones, I slept a little better and I there we're moments when it was like we didn't have problems and just loved each other. It was not only that last saturday.. I'm not idealizing the past, I also remember the bad times..

 

She still deeply cares about me but said she lost 'the feeling'. I'm don't want to force her to love me, I just want to be with her, be myself and I'm sure her feelings will come back naturally. Like I said before, I don't believe it's all gone, I do believe it's buried under all the problems my insomnia caused.

 

I still stand by my statement about her friend. They go to zumba together every week and she was trying for a weeks to convince her to let me go. Offcourse she didn't knew I have insomnia, so I don't know If she would adviced the same if she knew..Her other friend knew and she said to hang on..

My ex is very insecure and relies much on the opinion of others.

[Leveller]

Be more specific. What kind of mind games?

 

Also, why arent you just full NC?

 

I am. She has contacted me on a regular basis though since I got back in touch in July. Since July I think I have contacted her twice (including the text where I got back in touch). We live 30 seconds apart so as long as I am here full NC is not a viable option.

 

Mind games - just as an example since July she has invited me to her house about 3-4 times and this has included taking her PJs down to show me some bruises, having me take her top off to show me some (non-existant) bruises on her shoulders and wanting to stay 'friends'. I probably have not helped myself sometimes and had a text from her on Sunday which said 'Op ur goin 2 send me, nice text 2moro as a friend 4r my birthday'.

 

Well I did followed by a series of texts from me which said how she's used me (which she denied), how I'd asked her to marry me and then she did what she did (in May) and that I want to cut all ties to which she responded 'Im ok and dont b awful 2 u. Liked the company'.

 

My ex also told me she was now 'in love' with the guy she's with but didn't tell me cause she didn't want to hurt me. OK, don't believe this (it was her best friend who 'loves me to bits' who first told me). She might love him but looks rather like the cat who ate the cream and told me (yet again) 'he has fallen for me hook, line and sinker'. They argue regularly and go NC (he gives her the silent treatment). She has frequently called me to her house or to take her out when this has happened and stupid boy here obliged. Anyway the night she told me this (beginning of Sept) I said fine, no more texts, calls, calling up the house, taking you out for food etc. Anyway I told her I was back in touch with another ex (one who wants me back) and she got jealous. She sent me a text at 2:30am, 7:30am and about four more including 'Don't u love me anymore ha ha?' before I replied with something a bit more mature (she is 45!!!). A week later I broke this when I saw her shopping, I took the shopping back to the house and caught up. She knew I was going away and sent me 7 texts to my 2. Depite what I had said I knew she would contact me again and she did as you know. I just KNEW it.

[torranceshipman]

I sounded just like your girlfriend, a few yrs ago. I was the dumper, and totally dreaded ending it with my boyfriend because I loved him and thought he was the greatest guy EVER....BUT...I'd lost the feeling. I wasn't 'in love' with him anymore. And when a girl loses that feeling, it never comes back. She'll have carried this around with her for a while, as she'd have wanted to be 100% sure that she felt this way before having to hurt you.

 

Why does she have a sparkle sometimes when she talks to you? Because she still genuinely loves you but will NEVER be 'in love' with you again. Why does she cry? I did this too-because she feels horribly guilty to have to hurt someone she loves and cares for. Imagine your best friend in the world, then imagine kicking them in the teeth and betraying them horribly, and then reinforcing that feeling every time they ask to talk to you about why you treated them like that? The poor girl is just feeling very guilty for hurting you, and it upsets her having to face you and talk it through and see you hurt.

 

I'm so sorry, but she isn't in love with you and she'll never want you as a romantic partner again. And it isn't just about the sleep disorder. Girls are way more complex than that-it is simply that she isn't in love with you anymore...

[BCCA]

Imagine your best friend in the world, then imagine kicking them in the teeth and betraying them horribly, and then reinforcing that feeling every time they ask to talk to you about why you treated them like that? The poor girl is just feeling very guilty for hurting you, and it upsets her having to face you and talk it through and see you hurt.

 

On top of that, everything in her life also changes. She knows she now has to go on for the rest of her life with you either hating/disliking her or not caring about her at all. She knows youre not going to be her friend, or want much to do with her at all once you realize its truly over.

 

So, she is losing a lover and a best friend, and breaking some one's heart, all at the same time. The guilt is going to be hard on her.

 

She'll have carried this around with her for a while, as she'd have wanted to be 100% sure that she felt this way before having to hurt you.

 

My guess is upwards of 3 months, minimum. And shes talked to everyone else but you, and once that decision is not only made in her mind, but expressed to everyone else...its pretty much irreversable.

 

I'm so sorry, but she isn't in love with you and she'll never want you as a romantic partner again

 

I agree, and also offer my condolences. It sucks worse than anything, but it is what it is.

[PinkToes]

She said again she didn't love me anymore, that there where times when we were still together and she didn't wanted to kiss me or hug me.

 

I'm so sorry, but I think this is the most significant thing she said to you. Women (sorry, another generalization) more often feel physical attraction when they also feel an emotional attraction, so if she is reluctant to kiss you, the emotions just aren't there to sustain her desire.

 

And sadly, that can be true no matter how much they like you or care about you or want to be friends. And in my experience, it can be true even if you're a great guy and you're someone she would like to be "the one." She may wish she still felt the same way as much as you do. But she just couldn't get there anymore. And honestly, it isn't about the insomnia; it really isn't.

 

The best thing you can do now is to stay away, and focus on yourself. No one knows what will happen in the future, but unfortunately there is nothing you can do to change what she's feeling. I'm so sorry you're going through this.

[ADF]

Here's something evryone should always remember: second chances are a gift. Forgiveness is a gift. People don't owe it to us to give us second chances just because we think we deserve them.

[Bobbe]

Hmmm,

:confused:

That makes sense. :(

 

 

But isn't there a chance it's this? (Yes, I'm still hoping.)

 

-> A quote I found in another topic:

you also need to realize that sometimes there are bad times, where you feel like you no longer love that person, or no longer are attracted to them. often this is simply stress or life circumstances being projected on your partner (courtesy of my father, a psychiatrist, and someone who went through two separations with my mother before working everything out). when this happens, you need to be able to recognize it and not just run ... because after a few months apart, the bad times fade away and all you remember is the good times ... and then you begin to regret`

 

At the moment I feel very calm, like I know everything is going to be allright in the end. If she comes back, then it was meant. If not, I move on and be happy with somebody else!

I don't know what my state of mind will be tomorrow..I hope as relaxed and optimistic as today

 

As being her friend if I realise all hope is lost.. I don't know. I think I can be just friends with her without trying to get her back, but then I would need some extra time alone.. But eventually, I can see us being friends.

But that's how I think today, who knows in a few months?

 

It's now 23 days ago.. I think the worst pain is over. I HOPE so

But probably not

I don't know why I'm so happy today, it's strange..

[Bobbe]

Not so happy today, I hate this emotional roller coaster

[northstar1]

Hmmm,

:confused:

That makes sense. :(

 

 

But isn't there a chance it's this? (Yes, I'm still hoping.)

 

-> A quote I found in another topic:

 

 

At the moment I feel very calm, like I know everything is going to be allright in the end. If she comes back, then it was meant. If not, I move on and be happy with somebody else!

I don't know what my state of mind will be tomorrow..I hope as relaxed and optimistic as today

 

As being her friend if I realise all hope is lost.. I don't know. I think I can be just friends with her without trying to get her back, but then I would need some extra time alone.. But eventually, I can see us being friends.

But that's how I think today, who knows in a few months?

 

It's now 23 days ago.. I think the worst pain is over. I HOPE so

But probably not

I don't know why I'm so happy today, it's strange..

 

I'll be honest, more than likely you cannot be friends anytime soon. Perhaps from her end, if she has lost all romantic feelings, she can ease into a friendship, but since you clearly still love her, you will not be able to.

 

Maybe in a few years, but for now, you need to assume you won't have contact with her again and move on with your life.

 

Hope will be a killer if you allow it.

[Bobbe]

Then again, If she fell in love with me the first time, why couldn't it happen a second time?

I'm going to give her time but I'm not giving up just yet! In the mean time I'm improving myself to be a better me, for myself! But I admit, also to impress her, to show her what she's missing. The new improved me, Version 2.0.

 

 

I can think of 3 possible outcomes:

 

1.

After some time (months, weeks, dunno) she realises she still loves me but lost the feeling due to all our problems, stress, etc..She comes back, but she has to prove to me, she means it. I'm not just taking her back. That would lead to failure.

 

2.

We become friends, she really isn't in love anymore. (Yes, I can handle that) After a while, she falls in love with me again.

 

2b.

We're friend and just stay friends..(I'm going to need some time for this)

 

3.

After a long time I finally admit defeat and see all is lost, she won't ever speak with me again. But I'm a better person by then and will find love with someone else.

 

I do hear what you're all saying, I even learned from it and now understand much better why it happened like it happened. I just choose, for the time being, not to listens to the "move on" advice.

 

Still, I'm gratefull for the advice and support, thanks

[northstar1]

Then again, If she fell in love with me the first time, why couldn't it happen a second time?

I'm going to give her time but I'm not giving up just yet! In the mean time I'm improving myself to be a better me, for myself! But I admit, also to impress her, to show her what she's missing. The new improved me, Version 2.0.

 

 

I can think of 3 possible outcomes:

 

1.

After some time (months, weeks, dunno) she realises she still loves me but lost the feeling due to all our problems, stress, etc..She comes back, but she has to prove to me, she means it. I'm not just taking her back. That would lead to failure.

 

2.

We become friends, she really isn't in love anymore. (Yes, I can handle that) After a while, she falls in love with me again.

 

2b.

We're friend and just stay friends..(I'm going to need some time for this)

 

3.

After a long time I finally admit defeat and see all is lost, she won't ever speak with me again. But I'm a better person by then and will find love with someone else.

 

I do hear what you're all saying, I even learned from it and now understand much better why it happened like it happened. I just choose, for the time being, not to listens to the "move on" advice.

 

Still, I'm gratefull for the advice and support, thanks

 

Nearly all of these choices leave you sitting around waiting, and hoping.

 

Sure, there is a minute chance she will realize her mistake and come back, but do you really want to wait for that while other opportunities pass you by? No one can guarantee what the future holds

 

What I can guarantee is if you wait around under the guise of 'friendship', and she moves on and dates someone else, you will feel like your heart was ripped out of your chest.

 

 

No one is going to be able to change your mind here, so the journey is obviously yours alone. Most of us who are giving you advice come from a place of experience.

 

So, if you chose to hold onto hope that she comes back, it's a lonely road.

[Bobbe]

I want to try, I know I would regret it in 10 years if I just give up now..

 

I still have my question:

If she fell in love with me the first time, why couldn't it happen a second time?

 

Also, torranceshipman, are you sure that's not a sign of love? It really was a "i love you" look. I can't imagine looking like that just to a friend..

And why are you so sure the feeling will never come back?

[PinkToes]

I still have my question:

If she fell in love with me the first time, why couldn't it happen a second time?

 

 

 

The easy answer is that she doesn't want to. Her decision to leave had little to do with your behavior, it came from her heart, first. At a certain point, your behavior can't change what her heart feels. The door is closed.

 

Couples who make it through infidelity or other serious issues can only do so if they are both committed to working through the problem together. If they share that commitment, it is possible to re-kindle those feelings. But it has to come from a shared desire to keep what they had together.

 

If her emotions told her head to make the decision to leave, her head is going to be the default on whether or not to try let herself fall in love with you again. And that is awfully difficult to overcome.

[Bobbe]

I have the feeling most of you don't understand what having insomnia means.. It's not just sleeping badly, it's much more than that! It changes your whole life, it changes WHO YOU ARE. Imagine you didn't sleep well for a whole week because of a stressful event in your life. You feel like crap, don't you? Now try to imagine when you don't sleep well for a year!

 

-> You are cranky, you're concentration and memory is fubar, you're annoyed by every little sound, you have a very short fuse; the tinniest thing can make you angry and shout, you can't drive a car anymore, you feel depressed and very tired, the list goes on and on and on and on.

You're a very negative person, a bad version of you with all the good things removed. In short, you're a totally different person, not who you really are!

And when you sleep well again, you go back to your normal self! It isn't permanent!

 

Now imagine you're dating me & loving me. At first you think it's temporary and give me all the love and care I need. But months go by and it doesn't get better, it gets worse! You begin to have doubts & stress because of me, because of how I treat you (unwillingly). You don't feel as good and happy as before with me. You're forgetting how it is to have a nice time with me and only have bad days. You're constantly worrying and fueling your doubts, making them worse. Sometimes you have good moments with me, on those rare occasions I slept well. Then you're so happy you have the old me back, you really shine. But those moments are far and few. Like the insomnia, the doubts won't go away. Then you seek advice with a friend, you tell how unhappy you are, that you're doubting. You don't tell why I'm acting like this because I asked you not to tell anyone about my insomnia. So then your friend starts to push you to end it and be happy again, be free. At first you resist! But the friend keeps pushing, tries to persuade you and my condition still doesn't get any better. You're losing hope.You're love for me is bleeding, slowly fading away by each bad day. Then one day, you finally cave in to your friend. She's right you think, I don't love him anymore. Your friend is 10 years older and married, so you value her opinion more than those of others. Others who know about my problem and have seen me more than only one time, who say you shouldn't give up hope just yet and give you courage. But your positive friend is younger so less wiser and you don't see her weekly, like your negative friend.

 

This is what I think happened, I have thought a lot about this. It's not some wacky theory

When you're insecure and doubting and you have a friend who's trying to convince you to end your relationship EVERY week for at least 2 months (that I know of) than I think I'm right when I say she was pushed.

Yes, my ex decided for her self and nobody held a gun to her head but she was influenced.

 

So I have hope for 2 reasons:

 

1. The way she acted, it was far from always bad and cold. There where to many good times to believe all the love is gone.

 

2. I'm in my 3Th week of sleep therapy and things are promising. I'm slowly becoming my old self again, when she realises this I believe there's a big chance for a second chance.

A new beginning

 

Today was the first day on her new job, I'm sure she missed me to reassure her and that she wants to tell me all the things that happened. I just know this

[northstar1]

Well man, if you have your mind set to waiting for her to come back around and fall in love again, the nothing we can offer will change your mind.

 

Against all odds, I hope she does, but just dont' wait too long okay?

[PinkToes]

My ex was bipolar, and had some horrific times, and if affected every part of our relationship. He chose to leave. I would have stayed, even though some of my friends thought I was nuts, and that I deserved better. I loved him enough to see it through.

 

Good luck to you; I really hope things work out the way you want them to.

[McGrupp]

ugh. this sounds like me circa 2 months ago.

 

 

good luck

[Bobbe]

I'm not going to wait forever!

And like I said, I don't believe the love is really gone. It doesn't add up..

And it's not like I'm sitting in my bed all day, doing nothing. I'm improving myself everyday I don't want to be that horrible person ever again! It brought nothing but misery

 

It's almost a month now and I'm feeling much better now, the pain isn't gone but it's not as big anymore..

[Bobbe]

An update.

 

It's been 2 months and a couple of days now since the break-up. Haven't spoken nor seen her for 6 weeks (or 7, I should look it up).

 

I've come to realise several things:

 

- I don't need someone else to be happy. I only need myself to be happy. My happiness doesn't depend on someone else. Only when I love and accept myself 100 % can I give love and be in another relationship.

 

- I was way too clingy. I had trouble with giving her space when she needed it. I depended on her to solve my problems.

 

- My social anxiety was a big issue.

 

- Insomnia: Cause of numerous problems which combined became the deal-breaker. Low self-esteem being one of the important ones.

Because of this she lost her attraction to me. She couldn't see it changing and gave up.

 

- She's not the only one out there. I'm a great guy and there are plenty of women out there. When I feel ready, I'm going to start dating and explore my options.

 

How I feel:

I feel happy, very happy actually. The break-up was a godsend gift. I have turned my life around and I'm in a much better place now. It's the last week of my sleep therapy and I'm finally sleeping better again. You can't imagine how great this feels after more than a year!

 

I have my energy back, I go to the gym 4 times a week, in a much better shape now. My confidence has skyrocketed in the last weeks. I'm starting to feel my pre-insomnia self again. My life seems perfect now Except for one thing that's missing...

 

I still think about her every day. The pain is almost gone, she isn't the first thing on my mind in the morning anymore. ("What's for breakfast?" is )

I still want her back and I stand by my earlier statement about the love being buried under stress and all my problems.

 

I have forgiven her, she did what she had to do. I have no resentment or bad feelings.

 

The best part is, that she responded to an helpfull email I've sent her yesterday. It was only "thank you" but it made me so happy that she finally responded after ignoring me for weeks. I see this as the first tiny tiny step towards talking again.

[betrayed2]

I think she is trying to let you down easy. Stop showing up at her work and take it for what it is. Why do you think making someone fall in love with you is so easy but you won't accept that she has fallen out of love?

[WiseOne1]

That's great man, it's great that your life has improved, and she no longer clouds your whole day. However, it's no where near to being over, most liekly she's in a new relationship right now, and the new guy is still into the bargaining phase, bassically acting like a good boy because he enjoys the sex and attention....

 

I been a viewing loveshack for 5 years now, and there will become a time when she calls and starts to act as if she wants you back. Trust me, halfway everyone has been through that phase with the ex ignoring the, just to do a total 360. Most of the time the ex's are just fishing because there lonely or unsure about there "current" relationship.

[Bobbe]

When I woke up this morning, I felt great. No headache, no tiredness. Haven't felt this great for more than a year. I was so happy that I wanted to thank her for dumping me. Otherwise I would still be stuck in my old ways.

 

So I texted her, I said I felt great and happy, I'm sleeping better again. I thanked her for dumping me and for having the courage to do it. I said it was the best thing that happened to me and that she made the right decision. That I've haven't felt this good in a looong time. It was a really positive text. And I didn't expected a response but it felt good letting her know this.

 

Four hours later, she texted back:

She said she didn't know what to say, that she was thinking about it since she got my text. She said she was happy for me. She didn't think I would sleep better again this soon. Then she wished me well and that she hoped all my dreams would come true.

 

Then I texted back:

That I'm happy with myself and understand why she did it. That I don't have any resentment or bad feelings. And that I was depending on her for my happiness and now understand that I'm responsible for my happiness.

 

She then replied:

I'm happy everything turned out ok. Then one final text where she said she's not ready to talk yet in person or on the phone.

 

I'm happy she has lowered her shield and isn't ignoring me anymore.

 

I have no intentions of contacting her now. It's up to her. I told her some things that I wanted to say for a long time. I feel better having said those things.

 

I don't think she has a new boyfriend. If I know her well, she'll need at least a couple of months before entering a new relationship. I'm not the only one that was hurt. And even if she has a new BF, good for her. I would feel bad but there's nothing you can do about that and it's her life.. And plenty of new women out there for me

 

Well, time is the only tool I have now. Let's make good use of it and live life to the fullest