agressive women!

[yes]

Some women amaze me - they do all the work - asking the guy for his number, inviting him out, etc - basically making it very easy for the guy because he KNOWS this girl's into him - no risk of rejection involved. And some of these women do have some good qualities, so they seem to get AND keep the guy this way.

 

My question is ... what's a more shy/proud girl to do? I don't make it easy - it's an effort to ask me for my number, to call, to take me out - and there's a risk at every step of the way, and it's not very easy to open me up.

 

I guess at some point I begin to wonder - why would any guy go after me if he's got an agressive girl chasing him? Is all I get guys who don't get chased by agressive women?

 

I just saw an example of this with a friend of mine, who is like me. She liked a guy, but he got stolen from under her nose by an agressive "friend", even though the guy was into her initially (he told me he thinks she's cute, asked if she's single... ) (but the agressive one asked for his number, asked him to call her, asked him to a movie, etc etc - sounds insane to me).

 

So I'm thinking hey - this is the story that happened in my life many times - the first guy i ever liked was taken away by one of these agressors.

 

Any comments?? It's not like me and my friend i mentioned don't get dates, but we have a much harder time with it than the agressive type, it seems. On the other hand, the ones we do get are clearly after us, not us after them.

 

What's shaping in my mind as a good strategy is being agressive initially - i.e. very friendly (not as far as asking for his number, but expressing hope to see him again), and then drop it & see if he carries it on, with his effort this time.

 

On the other hand, perhaps I should stay the way I am (i.e. somewhat difficult), and say screw all the guys who don't have the confidence (or don't like me enough) to make the effort.

 

thanks,

-yes

[jenny]

hmm..an interesting topic.

 

let me ask you why you choose to be difficult to get?

[yes]

i don't think I quite chose it, jenny. it's pretty much from my upbringing - i was taught not to go after guys, to let them go after me. it's not like i'm difficult to chat with or anything, but outside of being friendly with everybody, i don't help any guys at all, ie I never show interest first. Moreover, i get shy when somebody shows interest, which makes me quiet, so the guy may get the impression that i dislike him b/c i was friendly and went quiet after he expressed interest.

 

some guys see past that and keep on talking to me and if all goes well, i date them - but so far, these rlly confident/agressive guys all turned out to be players =(

 

-yes

[jenny]

o, ok, i see. hmmm..let me ask differently.

 

why do you think your culture suggests that guys should go after you and not vice versa?

 

i'm sometimes the same way, especially when i really like a guy. it worked pretty well for me until i hit about 25.5 - then the guys i knew wanted to expend energy and money on settling down and building their portfolios and lives rather than chasing.

[yes]

why do you think your culture suggests that guys should go after you and not vice versa?

----

 

 

i guess that's the tradition. many cultures suggest this. "the man's the hunter, you're the prey" kind of thing.

 

-yes

[moimeme]

not as far as asking for his number

 

Why ever not? See, here's the thing. Men are people too. They want to be liked. They like to be appreciated.

They feel just as good if a woman wants their number as you do if a guy wants yours. So why must they be forced to do all the work?

[yes]

i don't think they have to do ALL the work, but i do prefer they do the big chunk of it at the beginning, especially.

 

i guess i feel too proud to show interest first, so i always wait for the guy to make a move. i do show appreciation for people (i hope!) - but it's uniform for everyone i talk to, i don't single out any particular guy (until we're dating).

 

-yes

[moimeme]

too proud to show interest first

 

! Golly! If some guy knew that it would make you happy to know that he was interested, but he was 'too proud' to show interest, wouldn't that suck? You might never get together!

[jenny]

lol - i'll let someone else respond, but what i'm getting at is that a lot of guys dislike the kind of assumptions that are behind this kind of thinking.

 

a lot guys i knew from school were educated explicitly against this kind of thinking - they are no longer hunters, and they want the kind of women who see themselves as doing an equal share of courting labour and expenses. they see themselves as equally valid objects of attraction and expect both parties to work equally as hard at making it happen.

 

i don't really date guys like this, so i don't really know. but i do know a lot of 'new man' type of friends totally prefer aggressive women because they see them as /assertive and confident/ rather than aggressive. in comparison to most women, these girls are aggressive, but in comparison to men they are equal. also, these girls are perceived as not needing men to validate their own object-status - they already know they are attractive and worthy.

 

i've lost out to hunter girls too, but i guess i just think they wanted it more. a guy i lost said he assumed she would be better in bed and more fun than me because she had the chutzpah to go and get what she wanted.

 

but, again, as we grow older it seems more like everyone is looking for investment = return. nobody wants to waste too much time or money on someone who will not offer anything in return.

 

anyway - just some thoughts. j

[yes]

true, it'd suck. but he's the guy, so i expect him to show it first, still.

 

i'm not saying my scheme is correct, just explaining it, for now. thanks for all the qns and comments.

 

-yes

[yes]

ahh, so you're somewhat like me:

"i've lost out to hunter girls too, but i guess i just think they wanted it more."

 

exactly, i don't wanna appear to want it too much - as in, if offered, i may take it, but i don't ask. i'm like that with everything. i remember in grade school some old people were visiting the school and handing out small gifts - all the kids ran to them and took the gifts, but i stayed behind. maybe it's time to change, i don't know - this is why i posted.

 

-yes

[jenny]

also...

i don't know how true i find this idea, but there is an interesting theory floating around that our generation of guys were raised more by their mothers while the fathers were working etc, giving rise to 'the new masculinity' - which expects women to be strong, protective, and assertive.

 

i have to say i tend to prefer 'alpha-men' who chase as well, but it does seem to me there are fewer and fewer of those guys in my crowds.

[bark]

Men are people too.

 

 

Maybe some men...

 

Seriously, what I have noticed is that an aggressive woman, all things being equal, stand a much better chance of "hooking" the guy than her more passive or reserved counterpart.

 

An aggressive woman, when she shines her lovelight on a man, says a number of things.

 

First, her target is flattered. Guys like being courted.

 

Second, it's usually more fun being wooed than wooing (no fear of rejection).

 

Last, an aggressive woman appears to be a confident woman--one more colorful, dynamic and open than her more traditional counterparts. This may not be true, but appearances matter.

 

Just one guy's view.

[moimeme]

See, I used to be like that. Then I discovered that my showing interest, being friendlier, etc. was very well received indeed. I now try to make sure that I do these things because the feedback I got about it was all good. I still hesitate more often than I would like, but I try to work on NOT inhibiting my impulses toward friendliness, affection (when it's appropriate, of course), etc.

 

I spent years holding back so it takes a while to get over, but certainly the results so far have been very gratifying. It seems to make some fellows happy - and what is more delightful than making somebody happy? And yes, I know, you can't MAKE people happy but you get my drift, I think! People don't get enough appreciation so I figure why not express it when I feel it rather than being stingy about it.

[yes]

wow. i don't know what to say. perhaps it IS time to be a bit more aggressive.

 

i've been raised to prefer alpha-males i guess, but in reality i'm not sure - like if my career goes well, i wouldn't mind a househusband. so i rlly don't know what kind of man i'd like - i think i need to date around and see what type works for me - it's impossible to theoritize about this properly...

 

thanks for your view, bark - this is exactly the type of guys' attitude that brings me trouble! i guess i assumed that guys don't like to be "wooed" (or not for long anyway), that they'll overlook those overly agressive girls and look to the more reserved ones, because it takes effort, so they feel like they're hunting, and getting the girl is more rewarding.

 

-yes

[yes]

very true... hmm. i'll never be as agressive as some of these girls, but i guess i could get more active. i've tried to be more agressive a few times, and didn't get positive results, but i think i was doing it wrong, heheh.

 

anyway, keep those views coming and thanks for all your input!!!

 

-yes

[moimeme]

That may be a holdover from the old idea that men like 'demure' women. Some men still do. Some men like their ladies feisty. There is a range of possibilities in between. You need to know who you are, not who you think you 'should' be. Would you like to be treated like a 'demure' person or would you like to be in a more egalitarian type of relationship? There are men who will fit all the molds, but you need to know what sort of man you really want. Maybe you do still want/need an 'alpha' male - or maybe you'd find it was a crashing bore to be with one.

It's important to know, though!

 

P.S. You don't have to think about it as 'aggressive', which bears some pejorative connotations with it. Think of it as 'warm', 'open' or maybe even 'determined' - which is one of those 'masculine' traits but not quite as hard-sounding as 'aggressive'.

[Tony T]

Lots of guys like women who aren't so easy or available. Just don't make it too too difficult. There's a happy medium here.

[yes]

it's true that i simply don't know. i know for sure that i like men who're somewhat macho - in fact, i like a balance of macho and feminine features (he better know how to change a tire AND be able to dress decently, to give a simple example, lol).

 

what's hitting the nail on the head though is the idea of being how i "should be". i'll try to pay attention to my instincts more, see where that takes me. i've been doing it a LITTLE bit, now that i think of it, but it's hard for me. i guess i have to keep on experimenting to find my "middle" (true, Tony!!).

 

-yes

[moimeme]

Lots of guys like women who aren't so easy or available

 

Interesting. Some men will say that, but then, if they don't get shown sufficient appreciation, they get quite upset!

They're fascinating creatures You really need an advanced degree in mind-reading to figure some of them out!

[Arabess]

The "Art of the Flirt" is a think line.....honed from years of practice. Men are just as shy and vulnerable as women are. Sometimes, you have to open the door just a little....to make them feel comfortable enough to enter into the relationship. It doesn't mean you are EASY....it means you are sensitive enough to help them along.

[moimeme]

Precisely, Arabess. Some of them are even insecure and have trouble understanding that someone might appreciate them - so they hang back, thinking they may be unwanted when they may be very much wanted. There have been a bunch of them here, too.

[monkey00]

aggressive women...pfft

 

well i wouldnt mind giving it a go if a woman asked me out. but i think in that situation, the girl's gonna be wearing the pants in the relationship.

plus another reason why US guys dont mind a girl asking us out is cause there are times where we're just the same as you....c'mon about 95% of the time WE are the ones that take the initiative and ask YOU out, it would be rare in any event for a girl to ask us out...thats why we totally go for this chance!

 

Plus we wont have to risk being the fool if we get rejected!!

hehe it would be cool to reject a girl, just thinking ...but i wouldnt at first go, id go out w/her and see where it leads, if she's controling or annoying after a few dates, ill just kick her to the curb.

[kathyd]

i've been just the opposite all my life. i'm the hunter. i always believed in going after what i wanted. i got many different kinds of reactions, mostly positive.

 

i see now that i may appear too aggressive and am backing off a little. not all men like that type.

 

there's a middle ground in there somewhere. but...if i see someone that really interests me, i will make my presence known.