An observation re: OW vs BS on this forum

[NoIDidn't]

Yup. Happens ALLLLL the time, which then fans flames that were never there to begin with.

 

And I am quoting you donna just to point out that you aren't even one of the famed "BSs" that are always getting blamed.

 

Its been said over and over again that there is natural animosity between betrayed and "others" but your being here is proof (albeit, not much proof LOL) that its not all BSs here with this opinion.

 

And likewise, there are posters on LS that have never been an OP but agree often with their views. I don't think this is as simple as a "us"/"them" scenario. There is something more going on here.

[HarmonyHope]

I don't think that an OW only sleeping with one MM is a whore, for the record. The dictionary thinks so. But I don't.

 

What dictionary would that be? Not his one: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/whore

 

whore

–noun 1.a woman who engages in promiscuous sexual intercourse, usually for money; prostitute; harlot; strumpet.

–verb (used without object) 2.to act as a whore.3.to consort with whores.

–verb (used with object) 4.Obsolete. to make a whore of; corrupt; debauch.

 

 

There is NO mention of married men. At any rate, your inclusion of that comment was an unneccsary jab at "other women". Then you wonder why betrayed spouses get blamed

Edited October 27, 2009 by HarmonyHope

[donnamaybe]

What dictionary would that be? Not his one: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/whore

 

whore

–noun 1.a woman who engages in promiscuous sexual intercourse, usually for money; prostitute; harlot; strumpet.

–verb (used without object) 2.to act as a whore.3.to consort with whores.

–verb (used with object) 4.Obsolete. to make a whore of; corrupt; debauch.

 

 

There is NO mention of married men. At any rate, your throwing that comment was an unneccsary jab at "other women". Then you wonder why betrayed spouses get blamed

 

Merriam-Webster includes it, actually, so no - it wasn't the poster's idea.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/whore

Main Entry: 1whore

Pronunciation: \ˈhȯr, ˈhu̇r\

Function: noun

Etymology: Middle English hore, from Old English hōre; akin to Old Norse hōra whore, hōrr adulterer, Latin carus dear — more at charity

Date: before 12th century

1 : a woman who engages in sexual acts for money : prostitute; also : a promiscuous or immoral woman

2 : a male who engages in sexual acts for money

3 : a venal or unscrupulous person

 

Don't you see, harmonyhope, where you yourself assumed her intent? Therein lies the problem in a nutshell.

 

How's about everyone stop assuming things and calling names - AT ALL?

Edited October 27, 2009 by donnamaybe

[Dexter Morgan]

BS will usually leap to the defense of other BS - even if the position is indefensible and likewise for OW.

 

post us a link to one of these indefensible actions of a BS that was defended by other BS's. I suppose there could be an indefensible action from a BS, I just want to see what you think an indefensible action from a BS is, in the context of them being betrayed and humiliated.

[Dexter Morgan]

Merriam-Webster includes it, actually, so no - it wasn't the poster's idea.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/whore

Main Entry: 1whore

Pronunciation: \ˈhȯr, ˈhu̇r\

Function: noun

Etymology: Middle English hore, from Old English hōre; akin to Old Norse hōra whore, hōrr adulterer, Latin carus dear — more at charity

Date: before 12th century

1 : a woman who engages in sexual acts for money : prostitute; also : a promiscuous or immoral woman

2 : a male who engages in sexual acts for money

3 : a venal or unscrupulous person:eek::eek:

 

bumped with the pertinent part highlighted and 'd

 

[Dexter Morgan]

 

I HAVE been called a whore here - a number of times. Yes, the mods have removed the posts, once reported, but that doesn´t undo them, nor does it render the claim false that SOME BWs do call OWs "evil harlots" (or similar).

 

(And yes, some OWs call BWs "bitter"... which, in their opinion, is as bad as being called an "evil harlot", so perhaps OWs should just stick to "evil harlot" instead of bitter? )

 

and even though its no skin off my teeth, if the posts calling someone a wh0re, which has a proper definition in a dictionary that has nothing to do with being a prostitute, then the little "bitter" comments should be removed to?

 

Ya ya, I can hear it not, and its a matter of opinion, but those will come back and say that "bitter" is not as bad as "wh0re".....but the little "bitter"comments are designed to thumb a nose, and insult someone that has been betrayed.

 

And its in that context that I see no difference when being considered for removal and infraction.......but it is my understanding that mods don't care about the intent to insult with the use of "bitter".

[pkn06002]

This all comes down to being polite and saying what you want without being rude.

 

What you get from a lot of BS's (and supporters) is nasty posts where yes there are no names called but the phrasing and context get the same feeling across. Then those posters get all defensive about how people have taken their posts personal and/or how the original poster just cannot take the truth. Or my favorite "this is an open forum and if someone can't take the criticism the should leave" seen that one or a variation of it multiple times. I see more of this than the name calling started by WS.

 

WS/AP's get nasty and defensive (I know I was) because emotions are already raw. Then when someone posts how awful a person you are, or how you have hurt other people etc... you get defensive. It is a natural reaction which some folks seem to relish. Because when a WS/AP comes here of course it is all about them, they are the one posting. But some folks seem to think it is there duty to point out the faults of an already injured person. So you wonder why the get defensive?

 

Then there are the labels thrown around as insults both ways. Yes I have participated in this plenty.

 

People here (me included) hide behind the anonymity of the internet and some people just let their nasty side come out. It is easy for those nasty people to lash out at newbies since those new people have not grown the thick skin they need to survive in a forum like this. Newbies are already in pain and hurting the last thing they need is to be told how bad of a person they are etc....

 

So the only people you get left are those that like to fight.

Edited October 28, 2009 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[HarmonyHope]

A 12th century understanding of a similar word does still not make adulterer = whore (if "whore" currently carried the meaning of simply adulterer, it would be listed as a numbered definition), but I really don't care to argue English semantics. The name calling going both ways should stop. I'm neither an OW nor a BS and I've just been watching the train wreck that is here with awe. My question again was does all of this meanness going back and forth provide any real relief for either the other women or the betrayed spouses or is it as pointless as it appears?

[Fallen Angel]

How about I say that I am an OW and I am a whore because of it, and anytime anyone wants to call someone a whore they can come straight to me and call me a whore, and I will not fight back??

 

How about this, how about I say that I was a BW for 15 long years and I am bitter because of it, and anytime anyone feels the need to call someone bitter they can come straight to me and call me bitter and I will not fight back??

 

If I give ALL of you a target, will you quit targeting each other for God's sake???

 

I can be a target for everyone.. You can all get together and beat the hell out of me, I don;t freaking care, just quit being so damned nasty to each other ALL THE TIME!!!

 

It is ridiculous that almost all of us are here because we are hurting, but rather than try to help a fellow human being work through their pain and suffering people would rather poke each other with sharp sticks!!!

 

UGH, sometimes I wonder why I bother... maybe there is no decency left in this world at all anymore.... *sigh*

[Susmay]

... You can all get together and beat the hell out of me, I don;t freaking care, just quit being so damned nasty to each other ALL THE TIME!!!

 

It is ridiculous that almost all of us are here because we are hurting, but rather than try to help a fellow human being work through their pain and suffering people would rather poke each other with sharp sticks!!!

 

UGH, sometimes I wonder why I bother... maybe there is no decency left in this world at all anymore.... *sigh*

 

Now FA, you and I have never had an argument and usually I read your posts as a voice of reason.

 

Can't you see though that by accusing everybody else of being nasty to each other "all the time", that you too are perpetrating the nastiness. Implying that all other posters will "get together" to do nasty things to you, and that we/they do it "all the time", and that nobody has any decency but you, is simply not useful.

 

Using capitals is also the equivalent of shouting.

 

No wonder people get so defensive when blanket accusations are made about everyone but the person making the accusations.

Edited October 27, 2009 by Susmay

[NoIDidn't]

I guess this means that there is no proof that anyone has been called a whore if the posts no longer exists? j/k

 

I've seen the posts where it has happened. But let's be honest about one thing. Those posters are no longer here. So why is it constantly coming up when those posters kept getting banned and eventually stopped returning? The non-OPs posting here now aren't those posters.

 

I don't think that an OW only sleeping with one MM is a whore, for the record. The dictionary thinks so. But I don't. I think that sleeping with multiple men over a short time period qualifies one as being a whore according to the dictionary - whether the men or married or not.

 

But again, the majority of the posters - the regular posters - here do not condone that kind of name calling and are just as likely as an OP (OM/OW) to report it to the MODS.

 

I think its really pointless for some OP posters here to keep *warning* other posters of the names they might get called by posting their stories here. Its counterproductive because it puts the newbies on the defensive more often than not. Its also counterproductive because it seems to always summon a nasty poster to come in and do just that. And its not always BSs that do it, as claimed. There have been many drive by posters in this forum that will tell you that they have not been betrayed. Its obvious that they are trolling, but the BSs here take the brunt of the blame for it. I can't understand the logic behind that result at all.

 

I am bumping this because instead of addressing what was said about the trolls that have come here only to stir things up and then leave, some posters decided to harp on the definition of the word whore.

 

The number one problem with forums in general is the tangents that threads take when posters allow the real topic to get ignored in favor of the smallest slights. I know I am guilty of it too, but I am making an effort to change that.

 

Am I creating a new reality in saying that those posters are no longer posting here?

[mybrowneyedgirl]

well i personally have come here to sort it all out. people make mistakes. sure, ive done wrong by being an OW. but that doesnt mean that hindsight isnt 20/20 and im trying to learn from it.

 

if i came here and said that i had no remorse or wasnt trying to understand it all or trying to better myself then yes, you would be justified in calling me whatever name you can think of.

 

but the truth is good people sometimes make bad mistakes.

 

and to comment on the BS. two wrongs dont make a right. the harsh, abusive, retaliative comments just hinder me from sorting throught this mess and make me bitter. so the negativity is a no win for both sides.

[mybrowneyedgirl]

 

Fifth, I am human, and I have feelings also.

 

 

so true you bitter whore!

[GreenEyedLady]

Why would anyone care what some very obviously deranged strangers on the internet think of their sex life?

 

I could care less if anyone thinks I'm a whore or a b*tch for that matter.

 

Sticks and stones, my friends.

 

It is your opinion of YOURSELF that matters. It is YOU who pays your bills, loves your children and is WORTHY of respect and love and forgiveness.

 

Forgive yourself, accept what is and move forward to your future. Do not lose hope. Life is a precious gift, do not squander it.

 

GEL

[NoIDidn't]

Why would anyone care what some very obviously deranged strangers on the internet think of their sex life?

 

This makes it sound like the affair is only about sex.

 

 

I could care less if anyone thinks I'm a whore or a b*tch for that matter.

 

I think most of us oldies know your take on this.

 

Sticks and stones, my friends.

 

It is your opinion of YOURSELF that matters. It is YOU who pays your bills, loves your children and is WORTHY of respect and love and forgiveness.

 

Forgive yourself, accept what is and move forward to your future. Do not lose hope. Life is a precious gift, do not squander it.

 

GEL

 

I agree but some posters really do take things personally. I think this is where the issues really stem from. I don't see the point to taking things on the internet seriously unless you've met or know the offending poster IRL. But that's just me.

[GreenEyedLady]

This makes it sound like the affair is only about sex.

 

I agree but some posters really do take things personally. I think this is where the issues really stem from. I don't see the point to taking things on the internet seriously unless you've met or know the offending poster IRL. But that's just me.

 

We all know A's are about a myriad of issues, but many posters who haven't been OP's would like to think that it's all about sex. And that is part of it, I mean let's be real. Who else would put up with all the added drama unless they're getting something tangible out of it?

 

And I get what you're saying but sometimes this really is the only safe place for some posters. And it hurts some people more than others. Especially when the majority of OP's know that they're not making the best choice and already feel bad about what they're doing.

 

It depends on what kind of day it's been. Sometimes its like rubbing salt in the wounds.

[NoIDidn't]

If there were decency in this world than OW wouldn't exist, would they?

 

I don't understand how a group of people (OP) who show absolutely NO regard, consideration or respect for another group of people (BS), can even begin to expect consideration and compassion from the very same people they victimize.

 

Seriously?

 

Explain to me why you (OP) expect consideration and respect from people who have done nothing to hurt you when you have participated in the destruction of their marriages?

 

When someone can make a compelling argument for why OP deserve my respect, maybe then I'll show some. Until then, I will show the OP exactly the same consideration that they have shown me.

 

Ahem....

 

I don't agree with a word of this. None of these women have ever been near my H. They aren't his former OW. I am not the BS that they helped betray.

 

It doesn't help to personalize things here.

 

Sure, they are helping to violate somebody's marriage, but not mine and likely not any of the other posters' here marriages either.

 

I think we can discourse respectfully even when we disagree with their position.

 

I don't like infidelity. I have seen the havoc it wreaks, even as a child. I know it personally. But I am not here to tell anyone how to live their lives. I don't agree with the statement given by many non-OPs that we post here in help to those that are ending their affairs.

 

I will post on any thread that I feel I can contribute to in some way. If a poster is asking for help continuing an affair, it might behoove me to not post in that thread. Or at least to avoid insulting them while posting my feelings on the matter.

 

But none of the OW here have helped betray the BW here. I don't think its right to post in this forum from the position of denying them respect regardless of what they are involved in.

 

I am insulted for them to have their "decency" challenged.

[HarmonyHope]

I am bumping this because instead of addressing what was said about the trolls that have come here only to stir things up and then leave' date=' some posters decided to harp on the definition of the word [i']whore[/i].

 

 

Of course that point will get argued, you brought it up in what appeared to be a backhanded defense of other women. I find it offensive any time another woman is called a whore unless she's actually a hooker. That's just the feminist in me. Truth be told, I've noticed plenty of posters (BW's and non-BW's alike) call the other women a whore even if they don't use that exact word. Some of those posts get deleted quickly by the mods so perhaps you haven't seen the ones I've seen.

 

And since you brought her up, Impudent Oyster is a perfect example. One thing I like about her though is she doesn't pretend to be above her feelings of animosity for "other women". Some BW's do, when it's clear they are still very angry, and I'm truly not sure why. Everyone here seems to be in pain and while it'd be nice if everyone could rise above it, I just don't see it in the cards.

Edited October 28, 2009 by HarmonyHope

[silktricks]

post us a link to one of these indefensible actions of a BS that was defended by other BS's. I suppose there could be an indefensible action from a BS, I just want to see what you think an indefensible action from a BS is, in the context of them being betrayed and humiliated.

 

Dexter, I'm not spending my life backtracking through old posts. It is my opinion that some BS (including you - and quite possibly including myself) have taken an indefensible position - please note I did not use the word actions. That is true IMO of some OW/OM and WS as well. Blame can easily be apportioned here, no one group owns it.

 

Just because someone was betrayed and humiliated by their spouse does not mean that they then have the right to attempt to humiliate everyone who in their opinion has done something similar. The other people on this board have most probably done nothing to either you or me personally.

 

Everyone has their own problems in life to solve. Possibly (and only possibly) you or I or someone can provide a little bit of aid in helping them reach some semblance of a solution... Possibly... but I can tell you for sure that ramming something that you (or I) consider to be the truth will not only not help, but will probably do the opposite.

 

I was watching a comedian the other night who was talking about flipping off some other driver who had done something abysmally stupid. It's not as if the other driver is going to have some kind of epiphany due to being flipped off. It's the same here. No one is going to all of a sudden "come to the light" because someone else here has been rude. Life just doesn't work that way.

 

If you (or I or anyone) is being rude to someone, we are doing it for ourselves, not for the person we are being rude to. If for some reason someone thinks that figuratively screaming at an OW/OM is going to somehow fix their own pain - then they/we need to own that that is what we are doing, but not try to pretty it up by saying that we are somehow doing it for the good of someone else.

 

For example - I said all of that for me.

[silktricks]

Of course that point will get argued, you brought it up in what appeared to be a backhanded defense of other women. I find it offensive any time another woman is called a whore unless she's actually a hooker. That's just the feminist in me. Truth be told, I've noticed plenty of posters (BW's and non-BW's alike) call the other women a whore even if they don't use that exact word. Some of those posts get deleted quickly by the mods so perhaps you haven't seen the ones I've seen.

ahem... I'd like to point out that if you aren't using the word whore, then you aren't calling them a whore. You may be calling them something similar, but not whore.... Not saying it's right, just saying it's not the same.

 

And since you brought her up, Impudent Oyster is a perfect example. One thing I like about her though is she doesn't pretend to be above her feelings of animosity for "other women". Some BW's do, when it's clear they are still very angry, and I'm truly not sure why. Everyone here seems to be in pain and while it'd be nice if everyone could rise above it, I just don't see it in the cards.

Maybe you are assuming animosity that doesn't exist. One of the myriad of problems with "boards" is that tone of voice and expression can only be assumed. The only way we have to try to get across an expression is by the use of emoticons, yet it appears that you do not like their use and assume sarcasm, where very possibly none is meant.

 

Everyone here makes blanket statements - because it's just too unwieldy not too. But it's still up to the reader to take those statements personally. The statements - if they truly don't apply to you - do not need to be taken at all. For example - in the above statement you said "everyone here seems to be in pain." I'm not. I was - but haven't been for a long time. I come here not because I'm in pain but because most of the time I find something here that is interesting.

 

The thing is - LS used to be much much worse than it is now. When I joined people could post as "guest" without being registered. What happens now is so incredibly lightweight compared to how it used to be. That's why when I read about how "terrible" it is now it seems almost a joke.

[Dexter Morgan]

Dexter, I'm not spending my life backtracking through old posts. It is my opinion that some BS (including you - and quite possibly including myself) have taken an indefensible position

 

 

I wasn't implying someone has NOT defended and indefensible action....I just wanted to know what you felt was an indefensible action that someone may have defended.

 

don't backtrack...give me an example and I will keep in mind it isn't an actual post.

 

I can tell you I have seen OW/OM, and WS DEFINITELY defending the indefensible act of cheating....and I don't need to post a link to a thread for that.....it is OBVIOUS. I would name names of the posters that continuously defend cheating no matter what the circumstances....but I'd get reprimanded:rolleyes:

[silktricks]

Dexter - you continue to use the word action. As I stated before I used the word position.

 

So... here's MY opinion.

 

1. You have stated many times that in your opinion that a BS who chooses to stay in a marriage where they have been betrayed is never going to have a good marriage. They will always have a scar. They are taking "leftovers"... you may not have used that exact word, which is why I put it in quotes.

 

That is IMO an indefensible position. There are a number of fBS who either have posted in the past or post here now who have actual experience with choosing to recover our marriages. We have lived the choice we have made. Some of those who have chosen to attempt recovery have failed most miserably and decided they could not get past the pain of betrayal. Others have succeeded.

 

I say this position of yours is indefensible because you simply choose to ignore success stories and state that it is impossible when it clearly is not.

 

Indefensible position.

 

2. Statement is made that ALL OW are lacking in something and that is why they "allow MM to use them". Clearly this is true for some people. It is NOT true for all.

 

Indefensible position

 

3. Some OW were told the man they were seeing was single - is that their fault? clearly it is not. They didn't set out to break up a marriage, they were sucked in. Yet they are portrayed by some as terrible homewreckers.

 

Indefensible position.

 

I could go on and on, but 3 is going to do it for me now, 'cuz I gotta run.

[NoIDidn't]

Maybe you are assuming animosity that doesn't exist. One of the myriad of problems with "boards" is that tone of voice and expression can only be assumed. The only way we have to try to get across an expression is by the use of emoticons, yet it appears that you do not like their use and assume sarcasm, where very possibly none is meant.

 

Everyone here makes blanket statements - because it's just too unwieldy not too. But it's still up to the reader to take those statements personally. The statements - if they truly don't apply to you - do not need to be taken at all. For example - in the above statement you said "everyone here seems to be in pain." I'm not. I was - but haven't been for a long time. I come here not because I'm in pain but because most of the time I find something here that is interesting.

 

The thing is - LS used to be much much worse than it is now. When I joined people could post as "guest" without being registered. What happens now is so incredibly lightweight compared to how it used to be. That's why when I read about how "terrible" it is now it seems almost a joke.

 

 

Thank you for this. I am not in pain either. I wasn't in pain when I came here either. And I wasn't angry - I was shocked.

 

I have no animosity towards OPs. I have none towards that woman that once told me that she didn't know "my side". And I have no animosity towards my H either.

 

I don't get it. The talking out of both sides of the mouth that Harmony is doing. On the one hand, there is complaining about being called names, or names being implied. But then to turn around and say that she can actually respect OO's stance as being honest about her feelings? Ridiculous.

 

If there is respect for being disrespected openly, then why do these threads pop up so much complaining about the names that some OPs have been called?

[NoIDidn't]

We are not here to defend anything. That horse is already out of the barn. These affairs are already on-going.

 

If anyone is here to defend anything, affairs or marriage, then it is my opinion that they are in the wrong place. We are here to *discuss* affairs with those that are in them. Not to tell them that they are right or wrong. Not defend our position or theirs.

 

I may not have had this stance when I first came to LS and was shocked at some of the things that were written by active participants in affairs, but I took off my rose-colored glasses about life and marriage and accepted that it is what it is.

 

Do I like affairs? No. Do I support affairs? No. But they happen all the time by all types of people. People. Not robots. And these people don't need to be told that what they are doing is "indefensible". These are consenting adults, that as much as I don't like what they are doing, they are consenting adults.

[MizzBlue72]

I know that I have no animosity towards BS's on this board. I also have grown a lot of feelings that I never explored towards BS's since reading MoaningMyrtle's posts.

 

I am the OW, and I did come here because I was in a LOT of pain. These forums have really helped me look at a LOT of issues in my life that involve not only this affair but also my life.