Okay I'm going to be nasty now.... Apologies....

[Toodamnpragmatic]

What makes one think it is okay to deny sex if both like it? I am at a loss. I lament that we are not talking marathon sessions, all day affairs, going for hours on end. I'm talking for some nookie on a fairly regular basis.

 

Now if you do not like sex and do not orgasm, that is one thing..... Don't read that too often. We know some people have just fallen out of love, are not attracted to or not as interested in sex. Many though are just bored, won't say anything or put it at the bottom of their to do list.....

 

How many people have heard a wife's "honey-do" list? Is there a similar men's list that does not put "have sex" at the top, with all others paling in comparison.

 

We know some women too have the issue with their husband and I expect honesty there as well.....

 

Again I talk maybe only for myself, but I think most males in these situations swear up and down that their spouse likes sex, however they place it so low on their list, that it really does not matter.

 

Please I do not want to hear Lizzie or the other's telling me and other males that we are just not desirable anymore. Really don't need to hear that one again. In 90% of the cases the spouses just don't want sex with anyone regardless of enjoying it (and yes to me orgasm=enjoyment).

 

Now to get nasty and please don't vilify me as this is not about control, money or anything....... But I did scratch the surface on my informal poll of my friends where those with GF's were getting it 5-12X's as much.

 

As a male, you buy a gift, bring home flowers, be romantic, listen/talk, whisk her away on a trip, a nice dinner....... With a GF sex is a given (at least I hope so). Is that the same with a spouse?????

 

Also would you be yearning/wanting sex with your spouse if she wasn't enjoying it (and again that to me means having an orgasm)?

 

Yes I am cranky again today.....

Edited October 26, 2009 by Toodamnpragmatic

[Mr. Lucky]

I think that, in the type of relationships you describe, sex simply becomes a power struggle. One partner feels disadvantaged in one area - finances, house work, child-rearing, emotional connection, etc. - and sex becomes a way for them to express that disconnection. The decision to do so may not even be a conscious one and the feeling of disenfranchisement may not be rational or deserved, but the bedroom becomes the medium and lowered sexual participation becomes the message. Ignore it at your own risk...

 

Mr. Lucky

[2sure]

Yeah, I think there is a difference between sexual frequency when a woman is a GF vs. wife. For me there is.

 

Some of it of course, its the newness of a bf/gf relationship. But for me, most of it is just not living together. If you dont live together, every meeting is planned around many of the other aspects of your day to day life. Every meeting is planned for. You purposely make time to see each other, thats the activity - being together. Usually including sex. It might seem more spontaneous, but really its less so because you have a reasonable expectation of having sex nearly every time you see each other. That expectation alone creates the necessary sexual tension.

 

Now for me, personally...I love getting ready to see a guy, especially when I have put aside the time to share each others attention. I love the getting dressed, smelling nice, being soft all over, doing my hair...you get it. All of that expectation and prep set a nice scene for me. As a wife living with him...its different. I'm sure some of it has been my own fault, but I really prefer to have sex when I am FREE and when I've spent some time on myself getting ready. It isnt that an unexpected quicky is out of the question...but I prefer the alternative. I guess.

[PandorasBox]

"What makes one think its okay to deny sex if both like it?"

 

 

Well, I would think if both like it, one wouldn't be denying it.

 

For me, back when I was married, it wasn't that I didn't like sex. It was I didn't like the person my spouse had become. Was it always like that? Of course not. We had a wonderful sex life, that is until he started being an ass. Which came first the chicken or the egg senario? Well, since I was the one married to him I was the one that wintessed the things I did then yes I can honestly say in MY situation HE started being an ass first. His temperment had changed, all kinds of things took place, that end up making me NOT feel close to him in a sexual way. Yes, it began to dwindle over time. There is no way I would continue to have sex with a person I no longer cared for because he chose to be an ass, and do some of the thing he was doing. I refused to be one of these women who would continue to lay down for her man because it was the "right thing to do" when I was not being treated very well in our relationship. Its not all about give and give to him so he can take and take. Please!

 

Yeah we later on divorced for several reasons, it was the best choice I ever made.

 

This is just based on MY experience though, everyone else might be different.

[soserious1]

or maybe, just maybe your spouse doesn't orgasm from sex with you, perhaps she agrees to the amount of sex that she does have out of love for you and simply fakes orgasm at times.

 

You aren't a stupid man.. if somebody tells you they really enjoy doing something with you.. but they then give every reason under the sun as to why they don't want to partake of the same activity again, that means they are probably not enjoying that activity as much as you think they are.

 

I think a better question to ask your wife would be how many times per month she's willing to "take one for the team" so to speak.

Edited October 26, 2009 by soserious1

[Toodamnpragmatic]

I am under no delusions about myself, skills, my attractiveness...... Trust me though she does orgasm, otherwise she really wouldn't bother giving me the time of day in that regard. And certainly would not bother faking it. There are other issues from her past that I know affect it.... The good news in my view is she is not interested in all with anyone else, and I guess I should be very grateful that there is no competition there..... Just trust me that what I say is correct....... I am sure Giotto, JamesM and others on this site will attest to the same thing.....

 

 

 

 

 

or maybe, just maybe your spouse doesn't orgasm from sex with you, perhaps she agrees to the amount of sex that she does have out of love for you and simply fakes orgasm at times.

 

You aren't a stupid man.. if somebody tells you they really enjoy doing something with you.. but they then give every reason under the sun as to why they don't want to partake of the same activity again, that means they are probably not enjoying that activity as much as you think they are.

 

I think a better question to ask your wife would be how many times per month she's willing to "take one for the team" so to speak.

[The Midnight Rider]

Why is it that once women get married, sex goes down the tubes? These are the top three answers I got on this very post:

 

1. Her mind is filled with so much other stuff, she isn't thinking about it.

 

2. Kids

 

3. Tired after taking care of points 1 and 2.

 

I've had posters try to tell me it is singularly the husbands fault for not showing enough attention to her so she would pay more attention to him, but as you can tell by the OP experiences, that doesn't always work, if at all. Flowers, candy and affirmations of beauty and love will only work so much if SHE isn't committed to a sexual relationship between her and her spouse and she just aint gonna get into it until the big three are taken care of. What the hell is romance if she can't keep her eyes open to enjoy it?

 

Suggestion? Get to bed early and wake her up early by cuddling up next to her. A woman's estrogen AND testosterone are highest in the morning so your chances are a little better then. Also, she doesn't have time to worry about all the crap that is going to fill her day and push you into sexual obscurity. Anybody care to tell me how wrong I am?

[soserious1]

I am under no delusions about myself, skills, my attractiveness...... Trust me though she does orgasm, otherwise she really wouldn't bother giving me the time of day in that regard. And certainly would not bother faking it. There are other issues from her past that I know affect it.... The good news in my view is she is not interested in all with anyone else, and I guess I should be very grateful that there is no competition there..... Just trust me that what I say is correct....... I am sure Giotto, JamesM and others on this site will attest to the same thing.....

 

You know, I'm going to give up now and give you what is obviously the only answer you want to hear.

 

Your wife refuses sex with you because she,like all women is an evil, scheming douche bag who lured you into marrying her and now intends to torture you by keeping you begging for sex for the rest of your life.

 

 

got it now? we married women refuse to sexor our husbands because we're evil horrible bitches and no amount of flowers, sweet talk or you 'helping" to care

for your own kids or the house that you also live in will ever make us want to polish your knob more often.

 

There it is,he answer you've been digging for.. now

 

Seriously, given that your wife isn't having an affair is it even remotely possible that she

just has a lower physical sex drive than you do? that she enjoys being close with you and that

on many occasions she'll have sex to be considerate of you but that she just doesn't have the drive you do and

that she's good at faking at it because she knows she's not going to orgasm no matter what and she wants the

experience to be good for you ?

 

I mean is it possible that your wife just has a lower desire level and drive and that these factors would be

present no matter who she was married to?

 

I'm sorry if I sound harsh here but you reach a point in a marriage where you've got to decide, is the sex

issue fixable? if it's not how important is having a lot of sex to you? if being highly sexual is important enough

you let your spouse know in a MC office that the issue is a deal breaker, if nothing changes you hire a divorce lawyer.

 

I can't imagine living my life for years and years and years asking the same question over and over again.

Edited October 26, 2009 by soserious1

[Toodamnpragmatic]

soserious1 you don't know the minutiae of my situation, but as said I know what I read here from other males and what I posted from my informal poll with friends 2 weeks ago..... I at least can rationalize this that I am not alone. Though it could be simple, all of us males (generally) are delusional.....

 

You know, I'm going to give up now and give you what is obviously the only answer you want to hear.

 

Your wife refuses sex with you because she,like all women is an evil, scheming douche bag who lured you into marrying her and now intends to torture you by keeping you begging for sex for the rest of your life.

 

 

got it now? we married women refuse to sexor our husbands because we're evil horrible bitches and no amount of flowers, sweet talk or you 'helping" to care

for your own kids or the house that you also live in will ever make us want to polish your knob more often.

 

There it is,he answer you've been digging for.. now

 

Seriously, given that your wife isn't having an affair is it even remotely possible that she

just has a lower physical sex drive than you do? that she enjoys being close with you and that

on many occasions she'll have sex to be considerate of you but that she just doesn't have the drive you do and

that she's good at faking at it because she knows she's not going to orgasm no matter what and she wants the

experience to be good for you ?

 

I mean is it possible that your wife just has a lower desire level and drive and that these factors would be

present no matter who she was married to?

 

I'm sorry if I sound harsh here but you reach a point in a marriage where you've got to decide, is the sex

issue fixable? if it's not how important is having a lot of sex to you? if being highly sexual is important enough

you let your spouse know in a MC office that the issue is a deal breaker, if nothing changes you hire a divorce lawyer.

 

I can't imagine living my life for years and years and years asking the same question over and over again.

[hopeful1980]

I understand that my husband is not a woman, but it seems some men think women should have the same sexual needs and desires they have. We don't. We don't think about it in the same way, we don't think about it as often, we don't want it as much, and we have other things we'd rate right up there with sex like eating chocolate or a good book and a hot bath.

 

Accept that your wife isn't as sexual as you are and you're half way there. It seems you just don't want to accept it.

[The Midnight Rider]

You know, I'm going to give up now and give you what is obviously the only answer you want to hear.

 

Your wife refuses sex with you because she,like all women is an evil, scheming douche bag who lured you into marrying her and now intends to torture you by keeping you begging for sex for the rest of your life.

 

 

got it now? we married women refuse to sexor our husbands because we're evil horrible bitches and no amount of flowers, sweet talk or you 'helping" to care

for your own kids or the house that you also live in will ever make us want to polish your knob more often.

 

There it is,he answer you've been digging for.. now

 

 

Simmer down, sister.

[soserious1]

Simmer down, sister.

 

 

I'm asking a straight question here.. how many times does a person get to ask the same question over and over and over again, rejecting ever answer they are given before a person finally reaches the point where they shout"enough" "just give me the script and I'll read you back the answer you

want"?

 

I respectfully submit that Toodamnpragmatic has literally heard every possible answer to his question from literally dozens of different people here. He rejects each and every answer.

 

At this point in time I just want TDP to give us the script

for the answer he wants to hear.

 

For myself, in my sexless marriage I finally realized that there was nothing more unattractive than a person walking about constantly whining "but what about my need, you don't take care of me, having sex with me would only take you 20 minutes"

 

For whatever reason, my ex didn't want to have sex with me and refused to allow me to open the marriage, at that point my options were to either accept this and satisfy myself manually for the rest of my life, to decide to act without honor and take a lover or thirdly to divorce, cost what it may and try to restart my life. Constantly whining

about my sexless marriage however was no longer an option.

[soserious1]

soserious1 you don't know the minutiae of my situation, but as said I know what I read here from other males and what I posted from my informal poll with friends 2 weeks ago..... I at least can rationalize this that I am not alone. Though it could be simple, all of us males (generally) are delusional.....

 

I didn't say that anybody is "delusional" what I am saying though is that you post this same question over and over, you reject every possible answer given.

 

What are you looking for here? are you looking to have your status as a victim validated? Are you looking for permission to hire a hooker or hit the strip clubs? Are you looking for permission to divorce?

 

You cannot make somebody burn with lust for you, at best you can negotiate a sex schedule that will satisfy some of your needs... but you can't make her or anybody else physically lust for you.. you can't force or guilt trip that response from anybody.

 

Question time for you, she doesn't want you with the same frequency and intensity that you want her.. what then will be your solution to this problem? How will you go forward, how will your reconcile your intense sexual needs with the reality that is your marriage?

[GorillaTheater]

SoSerious is right, Toodamn.

 

At some point you have to make a choice and live with it. The situation may not be fair. In fact, it may suck like a Hoover. But the choice needs to be made.

[soserious1]

SoSerious is right, Toodamn.

 

At some point you have to make a choice and live with it. The situation may not be fair. In fact, it may suck like a Hoover. But the choice needs to be made.

 

I remember you basically giving me tough love and telling me the same thing I'm telling TDP, you most likely saved my life Gorilla and I owe you huge

thanks! Life isn't perfect here by any means but things are a LOT better now, that I grew a spine and made a decision.

Edited October 26, 2009 by soserious1

[GorillaTheater]

I remember you basically giving me tough love and telling me the same thing I'm telling TDP, you most likely saved my life!

 

I can't tell you how much this means to me.

 

I told you what I thought you really needed to hear, but afterwards frankly was second-guessing myself as to whether I was too harsh, and I felt like I had stepped in it. I very VERY pleased that I was able to help, after all.

 

Thanks for letting me know, and I hope things are well with you now.

[Lizzie60]

I agree with SoSerious.. she might be faking the O... I do, sometimes.. and trust me.. the guy even think I squirted.... or they say it's even better after I do.. my vagina feels different.. why?? because trust me I'm a good faker... even do the Keigel..and the whole nine yards.. NO MEN can absolutely ABSOLUTELY know when and if a woman orgasm.. for real..

 

Plus..with my first ex.. I did reach the O.. each time.. he always made sure I had my pleasure before his... always... but it was just a pure sacrifice.. I just didn't love him that way anymore..

 

Why is that so hard to understand.. women might 'love' their H.. but not in a sexual way... simple as that. everything else is great.. but sex is a 'chore'... plain and simple...

 

Plus you have nooooo idea if she ever find someone who makes her feel hot again.. that she won't fantasize about him... you don't know that.. and she will never ever tell you..

 

We, women, know what to say.. how to say things.. we're not stupid.. my first ex had no idea I was fantasizing about other men..

 

Sorry.. but you might think you know her really well.. but maybe you don't.. I'm pretty sure she loves you.. but just not as a lover.. and I'm pretty sure if you would tell her, let's say tonite, 'honey.. I lost my libido.. we might have sex only once every 6 months'... she'll be OK with it..

 

That's the 'Roomate Marriage'.. (new definition I just made up).

 

So.. if it's really intolerable (like it was for me) ... leave..

[soserious1]

I can't tell you how much this means to me.

 

I told you what I thought you really needed to hear, but afterwards frankly was second-guessing myself as to whether I was too harsh, and I felt like I had stepped in it. I very VERY pleased that I was able to help, after all.

 

Thanks for letting me know, and I hope things are well with you now.

 

 

Being "alone" in one's early 50's is a LOT better than being stuck in one's 60's care taking for an aging spouse who's denied you sex and ripped your self-esteem to shreds.

[Phateless]

I think that, in the type of relationships you describe, sex simply becomes a power struggle. One partner feels disadvantaged in one area - finances, house work, child-rearing, emotional connection, etc. - and sex becomes a way for them to express that disconnection. The decision to do so may not even be a conscious one and the feeling of disenfranchisement may not be rational or deserved, but the bedroom becomes the medium and lowered sexual participation becomes the message. Ignore it at your own risk...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

SHE is struggling for power by withholding, while he just wants his wife to want him again.

[Fallen Angel]

I'm asking a straight question here.. how many times does a person get to ask the same question over and over and over again, rejecting ever answer they are given before a person finally reaches the point where they shout"enough" "just give me the script and I'll read you back the answer you

want"?

 

I respectfully submit that Toodamnpragmatic has literally heard every possible answer to his question from literally dozens of different people here. He rejects each and every answer.

 

At this point in time I just want TDP to give us the script

for the answer he wants to hear.

 

For myself, in my sexless marriage I finally realized that there was nothing more unattractive than a person walking about constantly whining "but what about my need, you don't take care of me, having sex with me would only take you 20 minutes"

 

For whatever reason, my ex didn't want to have sex with me and refused to allow me to open the marriage, at that point my options were to either accept this and satisfy myself manually for the rest of my life, to decide to act without honor and take a lover or thirdly to divorce, cost what it may and try to restart my life. Constantly whining

about my sexless marriage however was no longer an option.

 

I agree! He asks the question time and again, and each time we respond with the TRUTH AS WE WOMEN SEE IT, he dismisses us as being bitter and trying to blame everything on the man, even when that is obviously not the case. I too, have reached the point of just wanting to tell him whatever it is he wants to hear so he will just stop beating this dead horse. ENOUGH, if you are that unhappy about your sex life TDP, either divorce, or get into some kind of counseling with your wife to work through it. But quit telling us that our answers are invalid, just because they are not what you want to hear!

[NowhereToHide]

What makes one think it is okay to deny sex if both like it? I am at a loss. I lament that we are not talking marathon sessions, all day affairs, going for hours on end. I'm talking for some nookie on a fairly regular basis.

 

Now if you do not like sex and do not orgasm, that is one thing..... Don't read that too often. We know some people have just fallen out of love, are not attracted to or not as interested in sex. Many though are just bored, won't say anything or put it at the bottom of their to do list.....

 

How many people have heard a wife's "honey-do" list? Is there a similar men's list that does not put "have sex" at the top, with all others paling in comparison.

 

We know some women too have the issue with their husband and I expect honesty there as well.....

 

Again I talk maybe only for myself, but I think most males in these situations swear up and down that their spouse likes sex, however they place it so low on their list, that it really does not matter.

 

Please I do not want to hear Lizzie or the other's telling me and other males that we are just not desirable anymore. Really don't need to hear that one again. In 90% of the cases the spouses just don't want sex with anyone regardless of enjoying it (and yes to me orgasm=enjoyment).

 

Now to get nasty and please don't vilify me as this is not about control, money or anything....... But I did scratch the surface on my informal poll of my friends where those with GF's were getting it 5-12X's as much.

 

As a male, you buy a gift, bring home flowers, be romantic, listen/talk, whisk her away on a trip, a nice dinner....... With a GF sex is a given (at least I hope so). Is that the same with a spouse?????

 

Also would you be yearning/wanting sex with your spouse if she wasn't enjoying it (and again that to me means having an orgasm)?

 

Yes I am cranky again today.....

 

 

Todd, I am a married woman. And I really like sex. A lot.

 

But here's the thing... there ARE lots of things that get in the way of me thinking about sex more often. I've got a business with deadlines, I've got kids that have a ridiculous number of needs, I've got obligations that annoy me. That stuff is in my head all the time. And it CAN crowd out my sexual side.

 

I haven't read all of your other posts, but have you talked to your W? Have you tried setting aside time for it? Have you talked about doing things differently? (I apologize if you've already covered all of this). A lot of times, women just need to get all that other stuff OUT of their head so they can take a breath and feel their desire. It's not easy to do. I know.

 

I know for me, the more I have it, the more I want it.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

however the point is missed..... I asked how all my married friends are in the same situation. How so many on this site says the same thing. Giotto tells us his wife vigorously enjoys sex, and I think JamesM's spouse does too. I expect my friend's spouse's do too (particularly the one that meant during a fetish night). Do I expect my wife to lust after me???? No I don't. Frankly I know I am still in the same shape I was when we met, still look ok, financially more stable, no more or less fun....... Yep I have it all going for me;)......

 

Also trust me I am a realist..... I can try and explain her background, out issues, what we have tried..... However this is not about me solely. It is a fair question that many men do not have the answer for.

 

I resent the idea she fakes orgasm (though I certainly do not pat myself on the back as a great Cassanova)..... I just do not understand why if sex works, your family life and relationship is good, you two do not place huge importance on it (i.e. costumes, scenarios, lotions, potions, kink, time constraints....) why it is a big deal to get a reasonable amount, which I will say is 2X's a week......

 

If I was the only one saying this, then pile on me.... but I am not....

 

I also asked why there is such a chasm between GF's and Wives.... Why does it need to be....

 

For those interested I've mentioned it before google I'd Rather Eat Chocolate by Joan Sewell.....

 

 

I agree! He asks the question time and again, and each time we respond with the TRUTH AS WE WOMEN SEE IT, he dismisses us as being bitter and trying to blame everything on the man, even when that is obviously not the case. I too, have reached the point of just wanting to tell him whatever it is he wants to hear so he will just stop beating this dead horse. ENOUGH, if you are that unhappy about your sex life TDP, either divorce, or get into some kind of counseling with your wife to work through it. But quit telling us that our answers are invalid, just because they are not what you want to hear!

[soserious1]

however the point is missed..... I asked how all my married friends are in the same situation. How so many on this site says the same thing. Giotto tells us his wife vigorously enjoys sex, and I think JamesM's spouse does too. I expect my friend's spouse's do too (particularly the one that meant during a fetish night). Do I expect my wife to lust after me???? No I don't. Frankly I know I am still in the same shape I was when we met, still look ok, financially more stable, no more or less fun....... Yep I have it all going for me;)......

 

Also trust me I am a realist..... I can try and explain her background, out issues, what we have tried..... However this is not about me solely. It is a fair question that many men do not have the answer for.

 

I resent the idea she fakes orgasm (though I certainly do not pat myself on the back as a great Cassanova)..... I just do not understand why if sex works, your family life and relationship is good, you two do not place huge importance on it (i.e. costumes, scenarios, lotions, potions, kink, time constraints....) why it is a big deal to get a reasonable amount, which I will say is 2X's a week......

 

If I was the only one saying this, then pile on me.... but I am not....

 

I also asked why there is such a chasm between GF's and Wives.... Why does it need to be....

 

For those interested I've mentioned it before google I'd Rather Eat Chocolate by Joan Sewell.....

 

 

Because women are evil biatches who use sex to lure men in in order to get men to marry them.. that's why girlfriends will provide "costumes, scenarios, lotions, potions, kink" and why wives do not.

 

Your wife is just using you, I feel so badly for you, she owes you BJ's, she should be crawling on all 4's naked begging you to do her, after all, plenty of younger, hotter babes with tighter bodies would love to sexor you.

 

Is that what you need to hear TDP?

[mem11363]

I think TDP is accurately describing himself as the textbook husband. I think he really is that. Which is largely why he is angry and frustrated.

 

I don't think she is doing this to gain power in the marriage - I think he really listens and makes her priorities his priorities.

 

TDP,

I am sorry for you. As for what our wives think sexually - I think it is hard to know. Mine told me something in an offhand way about a month back standing in the master bath getting cleaned up one night. It was not about me - or about us - but it was about sex. And I never would have guessed that she had that type of thought in a million years. Heck I just don't even know what caused her to say it. I wasn't upset about it - but I sure was stunned.

 

I have also mentioned a very tense period in my marriage regarding sex. My wife never once told me during that time she was not attracted to me. She mentioned specific items she was unhappy about. But never made the ultimate statement - not attracted to you. But in hindsight she wasn't which was why we were on a maintenance frequency (minimal tolerable amount) of sex.

 

I do think she was getting to O most of the time during that period. I also think as hard as it is for us guys to believe - for a woman - having an O does not imply overall enjoyment of sex/desire to have sex. Meaning for some amount of time during those sexual encounters my wife was lying there thinking - when is this going to be over?

 

I am coming around to thinking that a mutually satisfying sexual marriage is at best a 1/5 proposition and maybe more rare then that.

 

 

 

SHE is struggling for power by withholding, while he just wants his wife to want him again.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

Don't patronize me or other males here..... I on the other hand am truly, truly sorry for what your spouse has put you through......

 

And I have said it before..... Believe me I am one of the lucky ones on this site.....

 

Because women are evil biatches who use sex to lure men in in order to get men to marry them.. that's why girlfriends will provide "costumes, scenarios, lotions, potions, kink" and why wives do not.

 

Your wife is just using you, I feel so badly for you, she owes you BJ's, she should be crawling on all 4's naked begging you to do her, after all, plenty of younger, hotter babes with tighter bodies would love to sexor you.

 

Is that what you need to hear TDP?