Okay I'm going to be nasty now.... Apologies....

[Toodamnpragmatic]

I hope.....

 

Simply everyone will tell you about the cycle....

 

You meet and are in lust (I was really naive and inexperienced, thus probably did not take advantage of the situation).....

 

You get married or move in together and have ups and downs as expected (at least we did).... Nothing major, just is.....

 

You have kids.... Ours when young were above average in the work department, including employing the "Family Bed" parenting option..... Also work, establishing careers....

 

Kids grow older, still together, some time finally available, hopefully better financial stability and as a male you look forward to those opportunities that you two talked about and they are not there as you imagined.....

 

Then I will get completely superficial and see what will happen when you hit the mid-fifties.... You grow old, attractiveness wanes (male and female), health falters, pressures with respect to your parents (if alive as ours are) start to affect your lives.....

 

As said not a dealbreaker and am happy that I do look at my spouse and still have lust in my heart..... For that I am happy.... And I do have the same or more sex then most married men I know (or at least have convinced myself that I do;)).

 

 

 

 

 

 

It will never be perfect.

 

I'm sorry your wife is too tired, because I honestly believe she wants to give you want you so desperately want but she doesn't know how to do it with all the other things going on in her life and inside her mind. That's how I felt.

 

I had to make the decision to take other things off of my plate so that I could make sex a priority. I made the decision to put it on the to-do list for myself and my husband so that our marriage will last. It wasn't anything my husband did, I just made that choice and I'm sticking to it because I know it's important. I'm not going to lie and say I always feel like initiating sex, but I know my husband doesn't always feel like listening to how my day was so I show him some empathy. We're still young, but I'm going to try to hold up my end of the bargain for the duration.

Edited October 27, 2009 by Toodamnpragmatic

[Spark1111]

Well, I know men and women are biologically very different in the how we become aroused department, for evolutionary reasons.

 

Above all, men need respect and show their love through mating with a female. (Physical validation)

 

Women, need to be appreciated, and show their love by caring for the clan, so to speak.(Emotional validation)

 

As a woman, I can only speak for myself. When the GF, you hung on my every word, told me often how beautiful and smart I was, carried my books and fixed my car without me asking. And you pretended that sex was the last thing on your mind as you held my hand and stroked my face. Feeling so appreciated and validated, I could not wait to have sex with you.

 

When you married me....well, you stopped trying so hard, and I felt it. At the end of a long day, when we'd hardly taken the time to emotionally connect, we'd both fall into bed, and you'd be ready for sex, and I....would feel less special and somewhat neglected and not so much into it....and then you would feel neglected.

 

I am not saying anyone is right or wrong here. It is just the way it is.

 

So when you sent me flowers, took me dinner on OCCASION, it felt somewhat manipulative and I would think "Gee, he rarely does this anymore, so he must want sex," and it would be, well.....just okay.

 

It is not easy, but it is this simple:

 

Cherish me, make me feel like the most important thing in your world, treat me like you would a "new" girlfriend and.....

 

I'll treat you ike my boyfriend. Woooooowieee!!!!

[NoIDidn't]

TDP

 

What are you looking for with these posts? I am really curious. I don't post much to your threads because of the abuse heaped on female posters. There seems to be a fixed perception that no matter what they say, they are blaming you for the problem.

 

I am in the club of wondering what is in it for you to keep asking this question. There are no other answers. The rest IS up to you. You might not want to hear it, but its true.

 

There was a thread started by a guy who claimed he was now a "pick up artist" and that his wife now couldn't get enough of him when before she felt he lacked flair. Did she change? No. He did. I am not suggesting that you do what he did, but he did the changing and he got results that he wasn't expecting.

 

I don't think the answer is to do more chores. I can tell you from personal experience that it doesn't work - especially if the chores are done from a place of expecting something in return. The problem with the chores route is that we women expect you to do it to help us cheerfully and willingly. And the attitude in which it is usually done is anything but. And that is a huge turn off.

 

My point is attitude. Its all about attitude. That pick up artist changed his attitude. And everyone else changed in response. You can only control you. I can only hope that what I am reading on my computer screen is not what your W is actually experiencing.

[Phateless]

Well, I know men and women are biologically very different in the how we become aroused department, for evolutionary reasons.

 

Above all, men need respect and show their love through mating with a female. (Physical validation)

 

Women, need to be appreciated, and show their love by caring for the clan, so to speak.(Emotional validation)

 

As a woman, I can only speak for myself. When the GF, you hung on my every word, told me often how beautiful and smart I was, carried my books and fixed my car without me asking. And you pretended that sex was the last thing on your mind as you held my hand and stroked my face. Feeling so appreciated and validated, I could not wait to have sex with you.

 

When you married me....well, you stopped trying so hard, and I felt it. At the end of a long day, when we'd hardly taken the time to emotionally connect, we'd both fall into bed, and you'd be ready for sex, and I....would feel less special and somewhat neglected and not so much into it....and then you would feel neglected.

 

I am not saying anyone is right or wrong here. It is just the way it is.

 

So when you sent me flowers, took me dinner on OCCASION, it felt somewhat manipulative and I would think "Gee, he rarely does this anymore, so he must want sex," and it would be, well.....just okay.

 

It is not easy, but it is this simple:

 

Cherish me, make me feel like the most important thing in your world, treat me like you would a "new" girlfriend and.....

 

I'll treat you ike my boyfriend. Woooooowieee!!!!

 

I'm just as busy as you are. Am I supposed to find time to constantly fawn over you? Do you find time to constantly fawn over me? That's not realistic. After years together, we should be judged by how we are to each other, not what one person is doing for the other.

 

You are expecting it to be all about you.

[giotto]

Cherish me, make me feel like the most important thing in your world, treat me like you would a "new" boyfriend and.....

 

I'll treat you like my girlfriend. Woooooowieee!!!!

 

[GorillaTheater]

TDP

 

What are you looking for with these posts? I am really curious. I don't post much to your threads because of the abuse heaped on female posters. There seems to be a fixed perception that no matter what they say, they are blaming you for the problem.

 

I am in the club of wondering what is in it for you to keep asking this question. There are no other answers. The rest IS up to you. You might not want to hear it, but its true.

 

There was a thread started by a guy who claimed he was now a "pick up artist" and that his wife now couldn't get enough of him when before she felt he lacked flair. Did she change? No. He did. I am not suggesting that you do what he did, but he did the changing and he got results that he wasn't expecting.

 

I don't think the answer is to do more chores. I can tell you from personal experience that it doesn't work - especially if the chores are done from a place of expecting something in return. The problem with the chores route is that we women expect you to do it to help us cheerfully and willingly. And the attitude in which it is usually done is anything but. And that is a huge turn off.

 

My point is attitude. Its all about attitude. That pick up artist changed his attitude. And everyone else changed in response. You can only control you. I can only hope that what I am reading on my computer screen is not what your W is actually experiencing.

 

I remember that thread, and read it again when Scriv posted a link to it. I find myself in a situation where, minus the extra-curricular screwing around, I found a lot of helpful stuff there.

 

Yes, attitude is key. Perhaps THE key.

[carhill]

Here's that thread:

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showthread.php?t=170807

 

Personally, I left no stone unturned. The D-stone turned out to be the healthiest

[Fallen Angel]

Damn close, but not perfect.... We all have warts and I know I have my share. I think they are minor, my spouse may think otherwise..... But that is why as a man it is difficult to understand why it seems to affect sex more then anything else in the relationship..... We as males are happy to overlook a lot to have sex.....

 

BTW my spouse is always tired too.... Nothing sadder then when my spouse does say she was in the mood, but was too tired (or fell asleep)..... Must be something in the air.....

 

I know FallenAngel and soserious want to hear about that long list.....

 

BLAH!!! That's what I think of that!!!

 

If you read what I have said, REALLY READ IT, you will see that I have never said anything is wrong with you!! I know you keep jumping to that conclusion and you get defensive about it.

 

I get that this is a sensitive subject, but rather than take my comments as personal jabs at you I wish you would TRY to see them for what they are.. my attempt to help you to possibly gain some insight into how the female mind works.

 

I have become frustrated by our back and forth because while I am trying to be helpful, you seem to think I am trying to turn you into the bad guy in the situation, I AM NOT!!!

 

I will quit posting to you altogether if the things I say are going to cause nothing but animosity between us... If you ever DO want to talk to me, or have my input, just yell, and I will come running.

 

Happy Posting!

[soserious1]

What if all of this is really not anybody's "fault" ? What if the combination of years of being married, the presence of children , work, fiscal constraints, the pressures of mid-life hormonal changes and all the rest simply combine to lower sexual drive in some people?

 

I don't know about the rest of you but I've found that when I begin to problem solve a difficult situation with another person by looking to ferret out who's "fault" it is, things seldom go well, the assignment of a heaping dose of blame does little to ignite feelings of lust in anybody.

Neither does pouting, pressuring, nagging or the 101 other ways highly sexed people pressure a lower desire partner, indeed, I think once you are to this point all such moves seem to do is to kill the other person's desire level even further.

 

At the end of the day each of us must assess how important sex is to us, what will we compromise on? what is a deal breaker? We must communicate these facts to our spouses in a calm but serious way, ie: not in the heat of an argument but rather outside the house in a formal sit down.. be clear, spell out your needs, feeling, state what you will compromise on, also state what you will do if change doesn't happen.

 

For myself, I chose divorce as our situation had gone from mere sexlessness to a marriage where I was receiving verbal and emotional abuse in response to my requests for intimacy and answers to what was happening in our marriage. Over time, I went from feeling bad and buying into the idea that our sexless marriage was my fault, to slowly beginning to hate the man. Indeed we reached a point where even if he'd come to me begging for sex

I'd have been totally turned off and refused, over time his repeated rejections of me coupled with his cruel remarks

devaluing me and my sexuality turned my feelings of love for him, to pure hatred and loathing.

 

 

In the end, once you are to that place, the point in time where the refused becomes the refuser, the marriage is over. I truly think if I'd skipped

all the problem solving and pressuring tactics I tried when I was buying into the idea that the situation was all my fault and skipped ahead to the formal sit

down session where I plainly stated my needs within the marriage and what steps I'd take if things did't change even a little, I'd have been better off.

Edited October 27, 2009 by soserious1

[NoIDidn't]

I remember that thread, and read it again when Scriv posted a link to it. I find myself in a situation where, minus the extra-curricular screwing around, I found a lot of helpful stuff there.

 

Yes, attitude is key. Perhaps THE key.

 

I found a lot of useful stuff in that thread too, also minus the cheating.

 

The biggest takeaway from that thread for me was that his confidence went up. That's the sexiest thing for both genders.

 

The other thing is that his changes didn't come with any expectation from his W. He did it for himself. And he got huge dividends as a result. Something he was not expecting, per se.

 

I don't remember where I read this quote (that I am going to totally misquote anyway) but it said something to the effect that problems are opportunities to make changes within one's self. Sometimes the constant complaining is coming from within instead of from what someone else is or isn't giving to us.

[The Midnight Rider]

I've been reading this post and it is eerily similar to my earlier post "When did your wife turn into your mother" or some nonsense like that. I posted my exact findings from that post earlier in this post. And low and behold the EXACT issue I ran into from my earlier post came up in this post too. It's uncanny! Somebody gives him an answer to a broad question, then people start attacking HIM because it was somehow HIS fault that his wife didn't have sex. He tries to stay on topic, but the snowball keeps moving downhill. Eventually somebody who understands the question starts up a meaningful dialog to help him find the answer he seeks, not just for himself, but for all husbands.

 

TDP, you are stone cold RIGHT! There is a huge difference between wives and girlfriends. Girlfriends meet the very best in you and love you for that. They get that guy who will run over a crowd of orphaned nuns to get to that woman who will return the favor by giving him sex so mind blowing he loses IQ points afterward. Wives turn into mothers who turn into managers, teachers, custodians, cooks, and referees and not just for the kids but for the husband who cant seem to remember that underwear goes in the FLIPPIN' HAMPER NOT THE GD FLOOR! Husbands, most of you will agree those days of your wife wanting you with the white hot intensity of a thousand burning suns are (in the words of the most awesome Ernie Harwell) "LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG GONE!"

 

Here's the twist; husbands will approach the SO and say in the sweetest way possible "Schnooky-wookems, is there something I can do to make you want me as much as I want you?" This opens the floodgate to the MOST INTENSE HONEY-DO LIST EVER. You asked for it, dummy. You will now be required to do more housework, spend more time with the kids (which is a neat trick if you BOTH have a full time job), take her to someplace exotic, show more romance, make more money, and build a full size replica of the Sears Tower using only spit and blades of grass. Ready for the punchline, fellas? It's all bull****. She doesn't want any of that. She has an itch that you or she can't even scratch. She doesn't feel sexy or she doesn't feel accomplished or she doesn't feel young anymore or something to that effect. Husbands of the world, we've been duped!

 

So what's the answer? If I knew for sure I'd write a book, make millions and spend my time tossing the football with my daughter, playing footsie with my wife, and playing poker at the Black Diamond room in the Bellagio. But I can say this; women need to feel confident that they are what will make them happy before they allow YOU to make them happy. All the "I love you" and "Great day in the morning! You are SOOOOO hot!" won't make a hill of beans worth of difference until she believes it herself. Want to see the epitome of an uphill battle? Get 30 women in a room and you'll have 30 women tearing one another apart about how much the other 29 are inadequate in some way. Too fat, too thin, too tall, short, old, young, bald, poor, blond, something. Women HATE one another on one level or another. Now take one of the same 30 women, put her in front of a mirror, and have her point out her faults and the list would need to be put on a flatbed trailer. Ask her husband the same question about her and his list would be, "Huh? She's perfect!" See the disconnect?

 

So fellow fellas, here is your task: try to convince your wife that she is what you see her as. She's tired and full of "I've got to do this or else!", but you've got to find a way to convince her that she is as wonderful as you think she is. You've got a shot, but be warned; your biggest enemy is her's as well. It's her and all the self doubt that she brings with her. There's a mountain for ya! Good luck climbing THAT! Will women probably hate me for this post? YOU BETCHA! Will I lose sleep? NOT REALLY! If I'm wrong, point it out. I'll listen and be objective. But if I'm right then ladies, look at yourself for a moment through your HUSBAND'S eyes and you will see the beauty that is within.

 

DAMMIT!

[soserious1]

Damn close, but not perfect.... We all have warts and I know I have my share. I think they are minor, my spouse may think otherwise..... But that is why as a man it is difficult to understand why it seems to affect sex more then anything else in the relationship..... We as males are happy to overlook a lot to have sex.....

 

BTW my spouse is always tired too.... Nothing sadder then when my spouse does say she was in the mood, but was too tired (or fell asleep)..... Must be something in the air.....

 

I know FallenAngel and soserious want to hear about that long list.....

 

 

 

I am not sure exactly what your trip is but I'm going to tell you that you say you are happy in your marriage.. but your anger and resentment over your wife's sexual refusal seeps out in your posts very clearly. Yes, healthy children, stable finances etc are good things but are they worth the cost of giving up something that is essential to your well being ?

 

 

You are FURIOUS at her refusals.. and the road to changing that starts with openly acknowledging that fact and then deciding where to go from there.

 

In therapy I'm learning that what happened in my marriage wasn't the result of any one single factor, no one thing or "fault" to assign blame to, that would be too easy, too neat. My marriage fell apart for a lot of reasons and the road to recovery for me began with admitting just how angry I was at having my physical needs rejected and trivialized by my husband, the rejection hurt, it hurt like hell and being able to openly admit that was key to everything.

 

 

Good luck with your journey.

Edited October 27, 2009 by soserious1

[tnhusband]

TDP - a couple of thoughts:

 

Obviously you know this but bear in mind that not only are men and women different but women are different from other women. I come on these boards are read things like "women do this" and "men do that" - usually it's not true for ALL women or ALL men. I for one know my wife is not very typical - e.g. she thinks flowers and romance are stupid, she loves that I help with chores - but it doesn't turn her on etc. etc.

 

So anything specifically mentioned as a solution for you and your wife is at best a shot in the dark - you know your relationship better than anyone. Only you can find the solution.

 

I assume you come on here searching for answers because you really do want things to be better and you don't want to leave her. You're frustrated and searching for that magic idea.

 

To all the posters on here responding with such negativity - please step back and ask yourself why you are responding to an anonymous man with such unhelpful comments - look in the mirror and what do you really see....

 

TDP - have you read my response to the James thread a month or so ago? I think I know where you are - but are you willing to really try something new? Something a little out of character. You are not going to be able to consciously change her libido. You can't change her but you can change you.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

and the resentment you have is palpable. But as said, you were screwed (sorry for the use of that word) in so many ways and it was nasty and cruel.

 

I am not FURIOUS at her and you and Fallen Angel continue to project everything on me..... My questions are purposefully general in nature (such as my informal poll that I posted).

 

I am no more furious then I am looking at someone who is better at a sport, more successful, lucky in life/love.... It is.... No big deal.

 

Men all over have this same lament (and some women). Soserious I will ask and I know it is hurtful, your ex, did not want to have sex with you. Did he want it with other women?

 

I know my wife does not want other men and is happy with sex and the amount we have..... I can be happy knowing that......

 

FallenAngel, quit making it about me.... I have told you my issue and really don't see where I have been asking for answers to my issue. I have asked for the 100th time to understand why the simple equation that if orgasm=enjoyment and we all like enjoyable things, why is it such a big deal to have it more????? If I had sex everyday with my wife and she only had orgasms 2X's a week, guess what???? I'd then only have sex 2X's a week. I won't do something that is not mutually enjoyable..... But that is me and my simple mind at work......

 

I like to golf.... I look forward to it. I would like to play 2X's per week in the summer.... If I played everyday and my enjoyment waned, I'd play less until I found that balance.

 

Again though I do not want to hear Lizzie or others telling me my wife is bored with me and this is the case with most married couples.... Again she may be right (I don't think so), but that is off topic.....

 

So ignore me FallenAngel as it is obvious you want to answer to my faults not the general premise of the OP.....

 

Also note the second part, where I ask for the difference between GF's and spouse's and how they react to presents/trips/dinners/flowers, which again I find very telling.

 

Men how often have you wooed youur spouse with the above and then not had the evening/weekend away that you envisioned and why was that???? Again a serious question.

 

 

A few have answered the question as asked and I thank them....

 

 

 

I am not sure exactly what your trip is but I'm going to tell you that you say you are happy in your marriage.. but your anger and resentment over your wife's sexual refusal seeps out in your posts very clearly. Yes, healthy children, stable finances etc are good things but are they worth the cost of giving up something that is essential to your well being ?

 

 

You are FURIOUS at her refusals.. and the road to changing that starts with openly acknowledging that fact and then deciding where to go from there.

 

In therapy I'm learning that what happened in my marriage wasn't the result of any one single factor, no one thing or "fault" to assign blame to, that would be too easy, too neat. My marriage fell apart for a lot of reasons and the road to recovery for me began with admitting just how angry I was at having my physical needs rejected and trivialized by my husband, the rejection hurt, it hurt like hell and being able to openly admit that was key to everything.

 

 

Good luck with your journey.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

about flowers/presents/romance...... and for that I am eternally happy believe me. She appreciates them but is not gushy over them and we make jokes about it.

 

And yes no two women are the same....

 

TDP - a couple of thoughts:

 

Obviously you know this but bear in mind that not only are men and women different but women are different from other women. I come on these boards are read things like "women do this" and "men do that" - usually it's not true for ALL women or ALL men. I for one know my wife is not very typical - e.g. she thinks flowers and romance are stupid, she loves that I help with chores - but it doesn't turn her on etc. etc.

 

So anything specifically mentioned as a solution for you and your wife is at best a shot in the dark - you know your relationship better than anyone. Only you can find the solution.

 

I assume you come on here searching for answers because you really do want things to be better and you don't want to leave her. You're frustrated and searching for that magic idea.

 

To all the posters on here responding with such negativity - please step back and ask yourself why you are responding to an anonymous man with such unhelpful comments - look in the mirror and what do you really see....

 

TDP - have you read my response to the James thread a month or so ago? I think I know where you are - but are you willing to really try something new? Something a little out of character. You are not going to be able to consciously change her libido. You can't change her but you can change you.

[soserious1]

and the resentment you have is palpable. But as said, you were screwed (sorry for the use of that word) in so many ways and it was nasty and cruel.

 

I am not FURIOUS at her and you and Fallen Angel continue to project everything on me..... My questions are purposefully general in nature (such as my informal poll that I posted).

 

I am no more furious then I am looking at someone who is better at a sport, more successful, lucky in life/love.... It is.... No big deal.

 

Men all over have this same lament (and some women). Soserious I will ask and I know it is hurtful, your ex, did not want to have sex with you. Did he want it with other women?

 

I know my wife does not want other men and is happy with sex and the amount we have..... I can be happy knowing that......

 

FallenAngel, quit making it about me.... I have told you my issue and really don't see where I have been asking for answers to my issue. I have asked for the 100th time to understand why the simple equation that if orgasm=enjoyment and we all like enjoyable things, why is it such a big deal to have it more????? If I had sex everyday with my wife and she only had orgasms 2X's a week, guess what???? I'd then only have sex 2X's a week. I won't do something that is not mutually enjoyable..... But that is me and my simple mind at work......

 

I like to golf.... I look forward to it. I would like to play 2X's per week in the summer.... If I played everyday and my enjoyment waned, I'd play less until I found that balance.

 

Again though I do not want to hear Lizzie or others telling me my wife is bored with me and this is the case with most married couples.... Again she may be right (I don't think so), but that is off topic.....

 

So ignore me FallenAngel as it is obvious you want to answer to my faults not the general premise of the OP.....

 

Also note the second part, where I ask for the difference between GF's and spouse's and how they react to presents/trips/dinners/flowers, which again I find very telling.

 

Men how often have you wooed youur spouse with the above and then not had the evening/weekend away that you envisioned and why was that???? Again a serious question.

 

 

A few have answered the question as asked and I thank them....

 

 

Yes Todd, my ex had no problem being sexual with other women, he's now living with a woman 20 yrs my junior that he met on craig's list.

 

I still say that you are hurt and angry over your wife's refusals.. after all you do so much and you overlook so many of her faults to get sex "as so many men do"

and yet she refuses.

 

I really don't feel your questions are general in nature, I'm not sure what is it that you're hoping to gain here, I am confused.

 

It would be great if there were one answer to all of this, one neat, easy way to assign blame and fault, unfortunately there isn't and even if there were fault and blame aren't sexual turn on's for many people.

[GorillaTheater]

TooDamn, I feel for you, James, Giotto, and other husbands on this road. I've had times in my marriage like that, and I understand how this must hurt and confuse all of you. It's like a betrayal. Hell, it might actually BE a betrayal. You want answers, naturally, but what if there are no answers, or at least none to be found? What are you going to do then?

 

In my case, keeping it "fun and flirty" did wonders for the sex, but now I'm dealing with issues of emotional distance from my wife. You'd think that would be a libido killer from a female perspective, but apparently not, at least at this point. But if neither my attitude nor MC fixes the problem, and things gets worse, I'll have to consider my options, the things I have control of.

 

You need to start thinking about your options too. I'd suggest that complaining about your situation, as much as it may help temporarily, isn't a particularly good option. But yeah, maybe no worse than the others. But pick a path and own it.

[soserious1]

What did I try to woo my husband?

 

Aside from working and being the sole breadwinner, I encouraged my husband to frequently get out and spend time on his hobbies and with his friends. I did not use my bread winner status as an excuse to not participate in the running of our home, I cleaned, cooked, shopped just like

stay at home wives do.

 

As to the sexual/romantic things I tried (without success ) to woo my husband ?

 

I dieted down to a size 2 and hit the gym 5x weekly for 18 months

 

I was pale skinned... and tanned at various points

 

I was blonde, red headed and brunette at various points

 

I had more wardrobe changes than a hollywood actress.

 

I bought toys, bondage gear, I attempted to initiate sex in public places, I actually dressed in an outfit and crawled on my hands and knees while telling him how hot I found his penis and begging him to do me.

 

I frequently gave oral... and begged to be allowed to do so... with no reciprocation required from him.

 

I brought a tv into our bedroom with dvd player, I would position myself in such a manner that he could watch porn and not have to look at my face while having sex with me.

 

none of it worked because ultimately a lot of the problem wasn't about me or how I looked or didn't look.

Edited October 27, 2009 by soserious1

[Lucky_One]

I've been reading this post and it is eerily similar to my earlier post "When did your wife turn into your mother" or some nonsense like that. I posted my exact findings from that post earlier in this post. And low and behold the EXACT issue I ran into from my earlier post came up in this post too. It's uncanny! Somebody gives him an answer to a broad question, then people start attacking HIM because it was somehow HIS fault that his wife didn't have sex. He tries to stay on topic, but the snowball keeps moving downhill. Eventually somebody who understands the question starts up a meaningful dialog to help him find the answer he seeks, not just for himself, but for all husbands.

 

TDP, you are stone cold RIGHT! There is a huge difference between wives and girlfriends. Girlfriends meet the very best in you and love you for that. They get that guy who will run over a crowd of orphaned nuns to get to that woman who will return the favor by giving him sex so mind blowing he loses IQ points afterward. Wives turn into mothers who turn into managers, teachers, custodians, cooks, and referees and not just for the kids but for the husband who cant seem to remember that underwear goes in the FLIPPIN' HAMPER NOT THE GD FLOOR! Husbands, most of you will agree those days of your wife wanting you with the white hot intensity of a thousand burning suns are (in the words of the most awesome Ernie Harwell) "LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG GONE!"

 

Here's the twist; husbands will approach the SO and say in the sweetest way possible "Schnooky-wookems, is there something I can do to make you want me as much as I want you?" This opens the floodgate to the MOST INTENSE HONEY-DO LIST EVER. You asked for it, dummy. You will now be required to do more housework, spend more time with the kids (which is a neat trick if you BOTH have a full time job), take her to someplace exotic, show more romance, make more money, and build a full size replica of the Sears Tower using only spit and blades of grass. Ready for the punchline, fellas? It's all bull****. She doesn't want any of that. She has an itch that you or she can't even scratch. She doesn't feel sexy or she doesn't feel accomplished or she doesn't feel young anymore or something to that effect. Husbands of the world, we've been duped!

 

So what's the answer? If I knew for sure I'd write a book, make millions and spend my time tossing the football with my daughter, playing footsie with my wife, and playing poker at the Black Diamond room in the Bellagio. But I can say this; women need to feel confident that they are what will make them happy before they allow YOU to make them happy. All the "I love you" and "Great day in the morning! You are SOOOOO hot!" won't make a hill of beans worth of difference until she believes it herself. Want to see the epitome of an uphill battle? Get 30 women in a room and you'll have 30 women tearing one another apart about how much the other 29 are inadequate in some way. Too fat, too thin, too tall, short, old, young, bald, poor, blond, something. Women HATE one another on one level or another. Now take one of the same 30 women, put her in front of a mirror, and have her point out her faults and the list would need to be put on a flatbed trailer. Ask her husband the same question about her and his list would be, "Huh? She's perfect!" See the disconnect?

 

So fellow fellas, here is your task: try to convince your wife that she is what you see her as. She's tired and full of "I've got to do this or else!", but you've got to find a way to convince her that she is as wonderful as you think she is. You've got a shot, but be warned; your biggest enemy is her's as well. It's her and all the self doubt that she brings with her. There's a mountain for ya! Good luck climbing THAT! Will women probably hate me for this post? YOU BETCHA! Will I lose sleep? NOT REALLY! If I'm wrong, point it out. I'll listen and be objective. But if I'm right then ladies, look at yourself for a moment through your HUSBAND'S eyes and you will see the beauty that is within.

 

DAMMIT!

 

What an EXCELLENT post.

[The Midnight Rider]

What did I try to woo my husband?

 

Aside from working and being the sole breadwinner, I encouraged my husband to frequently get out and spend time on his hobbies and with his friends. I did not use my bread winner status as an excuse to not participate in the running of our home, I cleaned, cooked, shopped just like

stay at home wives do.

 

As to the sexual/romantic things I tried (without success ) to woo my husband ?

 

I dieted down to a size 2 and hit the gym 5x weekly for 18 months

 

I was pale skinned... and tanned at various points

 

I was blonde, red headed and brunette at various points

 

I had more wardrobe changes than a hollywood actress.

 

I bought toys, bondage gear, I attempted to initiate sex in public places, I actually dressed in an outfit and crawled on my hands and knees while telling him how hot I found his penis and begging him to do me.

 

I frequently gave oral... and begged to be allowed to do so... with no reciprocation required from him.

 

I brought a tv into our bedroom with dvd player, I would position myself in such a manner that he could watch porn and not have to look at my face while having sex with me.

 

none of it worked because ultimately a lot of the problem wasn't about me or how I looked or didn't look.

 

Marry me. Please.

[Untouchable_Fire]

Why is it that once women get married, sex goes down the tubes? These are the top three answers I got on this very post:

1. Her mind is filled with so much other stuff, she isn't thinking about it.

2. Kids

3. Tired after taking care of points 1 and 2.

 

My responses were focused on what you can do to FIX it. That is... treat her differently, and that is typically a part of the problem.

 

So, why do you have more sex with a GF than you do with a wife even if the relationship has been the same amount of years?

 

Most women are programmed to try and keep you around... it's part of their sex drive. The moment she has you LOCKED down... Why should she have sex with you anymore. Your stupid butt isn't going anywhere else.

 

Agree?

[Fallen Angel]

What did I try to woo my husband?

 

Aside from working and being the sole breadwinner, I encouraged my husband to frequently get out and spend time on his hobbies and with his friends. I did not use my bread winner status as an excuse to not participate in the running of our home, I cleaned, cooked, shopped just like

stay at home wives do.

 

As to the sexual/romantic things I tried (without success ) to woo my husband ?

 

I dieted down to a size 2 and hit the gym 5x weekly for 18 months

 

I was pale skinned... and tanned at various points

 

I was blonde, red headed and brunette at various points

 

I had more wardrobe changes than a hollywood actress.

 

I bought toys, bondage gear, I attempted to initiate sex in public places, I actually dressed in an outfit and crawled on my hands and knees while telling him how hot I found his penis and begging him to do me.

 

I frequently gave oral... and begged to be allowed to do so... with no reciprocation required from him.

 

I brought a tv into our bedroom with dvd player, I would position myself in such a manner that he could watch porn and not have to look at my face while having sex with me.

 

none of it worked because ultimately a lot of the problem wasn't about me or how I looked or didn't look.

 

I am so sorry you ever had to go through all of that only to be made to feel "less than" ... ((HUGS))

[hopeful1980]

My responses were focused on what you can do to FIX it. That is... treat her differently, and that is typically a part of the problem.

 

So, why do you have more sex with a GF than you do with a wife even if the relationship has been the same amount of years?

 

Most women are programmed to try and keep you around... it's part of their sex drive. The moment she has you LOCKED down... Why should she have sex with you anymore. Your stupid butt isn't going anywhere else.

 

Agree?

 

I don't agree. The reasons I had more sex with my husband prior to marriage were because before we were married we were dating. Everytime we saw each other was a date. We did things that people who date do, like hold hands, have make out sessions in the movie theater, go to the park and make out, etc, etc. Time was fleeting and precious and whenever we got together we knew we'd be having sex because we wouldn't be able to do it again for a while.

 

After we got married, I see him every day. The thrill and anticipation that was there when we didn't see each other every waking minute is gone. Then when we do finally see each other, there are other little people who need our attention as well. Basically the bloom is off the rose and I have to think about other people and things besides him.

 

In that same vein, he stopped holding my hand just because. He hasn't stopped and given me a kiss that wasn't a second long in I don't know how long. He used to write me love letters - gone. He used to pay attention to the things I said and surprise me. He doesn't do those things anymore. Things have changed and I understand he doesn't have the time like he used too.

 

I think the main problem with these sex threads is empathy on both sides. It just seems like men and women just refuse to put themselves in the others shoes.

[Lucky_One]

OP, apparently there is a lot of bickering on this thread, so I am just going to address your OP (and my opinion may already expressed already somewhere else on here - sorry).

 

I think that when you have a case of two people who enjoy sex with each other and both end up with sexual release (orgasm) but you have one person who just isn't into it - then you have one person who can compartmentalize well and one partner who can't.

 

Look at affairs. Typically men can compartmentalize very well, and carry on EMAs with much greater aplomb than women. They take out the garbage on the way out the door fon trash day (irritated that their wife nagged them about it rather than just doing it herself), then they go off to work where they promptly put the wife's nag into 'Bitch Wife Box'. They have a crappy morning losing a project bid to their strongest competitor, and their boss calls them on the carpet for high volume of personal calls on their work cell. They go off for lunch with their mistress, promptly putting the boss's nag and the contract into 'Work Box', and even call the mistress 3 times on the work cell in order to coordinate logistics. They eat a t-bone and then get a BJ in the car, and walk into work, throw the mistress into the 'Lover Box' and pick up the 'Work Box' and go back into the bosses' office to discuss their need for a raise, which is promptly shut down due to company non-performance in a bad economy. They go home, toss their irritation into the 'Work Box', walk in the door and get hit with Jr's algebra homework which brings out 'Savior Box', and then get asked to clean the dog poo out of the frong beds which brings out the 'Bitch Wife Box'. After dinner, they slap the wife on the ass and toss the poo irritation back into the 'Bitch Wife Box' and get turned on by the curve of her shoulder as she brushes her teeth and they get out the 'Loving Husband Box' and present a boner to she slides into bed.

 

The wives, on the other hand, are STILL irritated that they had to ask their H 3x to take the trash out as she was already dressed for work and had on a skirt and heels and walking on the cobblestones where the trash cans are kept ruins her heels every time - and they have now compounded the trash irritation with the Discover Card people about a late payment and the not being able to help with algebra frustration and the frustration that the roast had a yucky side concealed under the wrapping and so was tougher than she thought and the guilt that she bought 3 dozen frozen taquitos for son's Spanish class the next day instead of helping him roll and fry his own and frustration that she really wants a pedicure but doesn't have time.

 

And then she gets that poke in the back from his happy erection, and she just sighs and says "Honey, I just am not in the mood for that now."

 

Women have one great box (and we all know what that is!!), and we don't compartmentalize well. Men can have multiple boxes, and they are great at opening and shutting them at will, depending on what is going on. Their penis has its own self-contained circuit with an off/on breaker, and a vagina has one ongoing central circult that connects with every aspect of her life with no central filtration system to keep BS from clogging up its smooth workings.

 

Simplification, but my opinion.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

and so sorry too....