Male height in looks "rating"--Is 5'4" a "1"?

[betamanlet]

What about the whole balding= more testosterone thing?

 

 

There was an ER episode that dealt wit this, when Anthony Edwards character was approached by a woman to be a "model", and he thought it was because another male patient told him that women like bald guys because they are more "virile". When he told the woman who asked him to be a model, she laughed when she heard this, and she wanted him to model for some kind of rogaine commercial, and said "some man must have said that to you, right"?

 

 

Don't forget, money conquers all. If you're rich, women will date you regardless of your height. Problem is, would you want to date a woman who is dating you because of your money?

[Janicee]

Inner qualities of a man often goes first, but in case there is a chance to choose, I would undeniably choose a taller man with same inner qualities. Other than the reason for outlook, the feeling is good with a taller man who appears to be more compatible in various aspects:p

[betamanlet]

Inner qualities of a man often goes first, but in case there is a chance to choose, I would undeniably choose a taller man with same inner qualities. Other than the reason for outlook, the feeling is good with a taller man who appears to be more compatible in various aspects:p

 

 

[AD1980]

the feeling is good with a taller man who appears to be more compatible in various aspects:p

 

What does that even mean?

[betamanlet]

What does that even mean?

 

 

I don't want to speak for her, but I think she's saying she might overlook other issues if he's tall enough. They will suddently seem more compatible if he's taller.

[Janicee]

I am a tall girl of 5'9''. So I feel more secure with a taller man, a least one or two inches higher. Our physical touches as holding hands, cuddling, kissing and even talking while walking are more comfortable and convenient. Oh we are in an Asian Society, it is more uneasy if there is great difference in height:bunny:

[cole.]

I like how a bunch of the girls are saying, "No! I'd never date a guy less than 2 inches taller than me."

Come on, please. I'm 6 ft and have a hard enough time finding a decent guy around my height without everyone else stealing them

The thing about height that irks me, is that without that comfort of having a partner at the same level, then I would feel like the man. Being so tall, I generally got male roles in all drama productions at high school - so for relationships, this time, I would enjoy feeling like the female I am.

[jw90063]

I'm 5'4" and looking for input from women about their view of guys that height and perceptions of attractiveness based on height

 

Studies--scholarly and my own research on Match--show that only about 10% of women include my height in the height requirements/preferences they list on their profiles.

 

Based on that statistic, 90% exclude me from consideration based on height, regardless of any other physical or else wise factor. Being in the bottom 10% is equivalent to being a "1" physically. Other physical factors play a part, but if you're written off by 90% based on one trait, that leaves you at the "1" level, no?

 

My weight is dead on-average to a handful of pounds lighter, and I'm considered somewhat handsome, but I'm not sure how much effect they'd have on my looks "score" given the height issue.

 

I'm far more then my height or appearance and have many great things going on, but the role of height is a question that always lurks. I intend to post another time with other questions relating to dating in real life, not on-line, where I think actually talking in person diminishes (somewhat) the "short height" disadvantage.

 

Here's a Match message that brought the question into stark relief for me recently. She contacted me, then we shared about 4-5 messages from each of us, then I received this message:

 

"I need to share something with you about which I'm very embarrassed, particularly since I'm the one who initiated our e-mailing. The reason I wrote to you is because you're obviously very bright and handsome, and I just didn't look at the stats. I'm 5'10." Our height difference is a problem for me, one that I won't overcome. I wish you all the best."

 

O.K. She said she had just begun on-line for the first time ever, but she didn't look at the stats until after sending me 4-5 messages over a week? After the numerous good things she said, the great, fun, smart messages, and after having impressed her greatly, this happens. Sent me into a major downward spiral. I've received messages from other women about not being interested based on height, but not after being contact being initiated by the woman and after a long exchange. Wish she hadn't given me the true reason.

 

 

Is this a joke. Another height thread. Seriously, what is the BIG deal??? Are you that same Stumpy guy who started all those height threads?

[betamanlet]

I like how a bunch of the girls are saying, "No! I'd never date a guy less than 2 inches taller than me."

Come on, please. I'm 6 ft and have a hard enough time finding a decent guy around my height without everyone else stealing them

The thing about height that irks me, is that without that comfort of having a partner at the same level, then I would feel like the man. Being so tall, I generally got male roles in all drama productions at high school - so for relationships, this time, I would enjoy feeling like the female I am.

 

See, your preference is based in your own insecurities.

[theumlaut]

Is this a joke. Another height thread. Seriously, what is the BIG deal??? Are you that same Stumpy guy who started all those height threads?

 

OP here. No it's not a joke, not I'm not that guy. Is it that BIG of deal? Yes it is. Per stats on on-line personals sites, guys who are 6' tall fall in the height preference of 95% of women. At my height it's 10%, meaning 6 ft guys have 9.5 times as many women willing to consider them beyonmf height considerations.

 

And those stats aren't all that go into choosing. That sets an upper limit form which the 10% or 95% gets reduced by religion, build, race, education, money, other looks, politics, personality, etc. This is assuming that woman treat the height as a requirement whiteout willing to bend on it. Unreal, but the point is still made that it is a big deal.

 

What would your concern be, and what would your life experience be like if you faced that delimiting factor in your dating world? Walk a mile in my shoes.

[theumlaut]

You're a twat.

 

The reality of this is basic biological drive. We are hard wired to be attracted to qualities that represent virility, strength and a host of other things that would make for good breeding and providing.

 

This is because although society has moved at a phenomenal rate in the last 10,000 years that is too quick for the evolution of our brains to catch up.

 

Henceforth we will judge attractiveness based on certain characteristics for many thousands of years to come.

 

Too you "biological" types: You're speaking about theories, not demonstrated "proof" or established scientific fact. At that your science is not science and poorly reasoned.

 

Socially constructed attitudes play a role; how much each effect things is unknown.

[theumlaut]

I'm the OP

 

]So many comments. For the substantive ones, thanks for those that are substantive replies, particularly from the women, to whom my inquiry was predominantly addressed. There are threads within the thread about short men and various arguments—I am far from being like those sorts of posters who also are speaking in support of short males. I distance myself from many of the posts here trying to defend and support short men’s potion, but I sense a troll and/or people with severe insecurity and self-esteem issues that are independent of the poster’s height

A few things

 

1. Someone mentioned that there are always threads like this. There’s a reason for that, because it is a very real, practical issue for those of us who are short to deal with daily.

 

2. Re: that observation from that poster, my thread is different because I was--in the main-- trying to get at the "looks rating" issue, which NO ONE commented on. That’s something new from what I’ve seen. I’m looking for a sort of “empirical” basis for the issue as part of overall looks rating. It matters in looks judgment, but how much

 

3a. For the “she's tall(er), therefore of course/naturally she wants someone taller” argument: Why? Height serves no functional purpose. It doesn't affect ability to love, sex, share feelings, compassion, supportiveness, intellect, brains or emotions, and nothing in physical terms. So why should the tall(er) women "of course" want someone as tall, or taller, or at least X'Y" compared to women of other heights at given preferred heights? It’s a bogus claim to me. It might be true for any given woman, but that seems to be a self-esteem/body image on their part. So many of these types of comments include the "I feel...." that's a subjective individual-driven feeling.

 

3 b. Goes for short(er) men not wanting tall(er) women. I smell a body image problem with both sexes having such a strong preference due to that. My masculinity is not in question. I know I'm very short. Being with a tall(er) woman isn't going to bring me some great surprise/awakening to that. If your femininty/masculinity is in question based on your height in relation to another's, you have major issues having nothing to do with your height in relation to male/female (potential) partner's relative height.

 

4. On the functional issue, height is distinct from penis size as a preference precisely because penis size is a *functional* matter. To whatever extent size matters to woman in her sexual response, it matters to some degree: What woman is indifferent between a 1", 3", 6", 10", 12" penis? There's a “too big" 'too small" for every woman, in specifics particular to each woman at her own personal preferences.

 

5. On the idea that women or men will/should care about what others will think of their being with a shorter partner: Could anything be more immature? In high school, sure, I can see that being an issue for girls. For mature people? Who decides on partners based giving real consideration to what others' think? No one I want to know. A ludicrous claim. This above goes for short men not wanting tall(er) women.

 

6. Many other things play a role, of course. I have some extremely impressive accomplishments relating to the esteem in which I’m held by other people re: leadership, charisma, intellect, academic achievement, etc. I was very popular as a kid, not picked on, not a wimp. I’m an alpha male and as masculine as any other guy, just 5’4”. Part of the bit of success I've had is based on my writing quality, humor, ability to articulate my ideas, intelligence etc. in my profiles. I've been given numerous compliments to this effect. I slave over my profiles. I don't operate under the delusion that height is of importance in some final way.

 

7. On the "tall men are more successful" thesis, of course it's not absolute. At some point men can be too tall for many women. Studies of personals ads show that the most sought after height--defined as being included in women's height preferences they list, is 6'0" with 95% acceptance rate. It declines above and below that

 

8. On women commenting that they’re tall, but most men they date are shorter: If you're 5'11, at least half of all men are shorter than you. The dating pool is shaped by actual, not relative, height. I've seen female acquaintance’s profiles and see that they list something like at least 5'10, 5'11, 6 ft, yet they complain incessantly about there being "no good men." Well, reduce your target population by at least 50%, and guess what: You've eliminated at least half of all "good men," defining "good men" without relevance of height considered

 

9. p.s.

How does this height/build/strength phenom play into gay (male/male or female/female) relationships? Are lesbians more attracted to other women based on height and strength? Gay men more attracted to smaller males? I don't know. Anyone? If isn't a big deal, does the biological argument carry much weight?

 

Wow the way these things can spin out of control very quickly. As hsould be obvious, my curiosity extends beyond just my persoanl situation, or the height realtionship in general. I'm heavily intellectual, so I love to think about and analyze everything.

Edited October 30, 2009 by theumlaut
formatting

[AD1980]

I'm the OP

 

]So many comments. For the substantive ones, thanks for those that are substantive replies, particularly from the women, to whom my inquiry was predominantly addressed. There are threads within the thread about short men and various arguments—I am far from being like those sorts of posters who also are speaking in support of short males. I distance myself from many of the posts here trying to defend and support short men’s potion, but I sense a troll and/or people with severe insecurity and self-esteem issues that are independent of the poster’s height

A few things

 

1. Someone mentioned that there are always threads like this. There’s a reason for that, because it is a very real, practical issue for those of us who are short to deal with daily.

 

2. Re: that observation from that poster, my thread is different because I was--in the main-- trying to get at the "looks rating" issue, which NO ONE commented on. That’s something new from what I’ve seen. I’m looking for a sort of “empirical” basis for the issue as part of overall looks rating. It matters in looks judgment, but how much

 

3a. For the “she's tall(er), therefore of course/naturally she wants someone taller” argument: Why? Height serves no functional purpose. It doesn't affect ability to love, sex, share feelings, compassion, supportiveness, intellect, brains or emotions, and nothing in physical terms. So why should the tall(er) women "of course" want someone as tall, or taller, or at least X'Y" compared to women of other heights at given preferred heights? It’s a bogus claim to me. It might be true for any given woman, but that seems to be a self-esteem/body image on their part. So many of these types of comments include the "I feel...." that's a subjective individual-driven feeling.

 

3 b. Goes for short(er) men not wanting tall(er) women. I smell a body image problem with both sexes having such a strong preference due to that. My masculinity is not in question. I know I'm very short. Being with a tall(er) woman isn't going to bring me some great surprise/awakening to that. If your femininty/masculinity is in question based on your height in relation to another's, you have major issues having nothing to do with your height in relation to male/female (potential) partner's relative height.

 

4. On the functional issue, height is distinct from penis size as a preference precisely because penis size is a *functional* matter. To whatever extent size matters to woman in her sexual response, it matters to some degree: What woman is indifferent between a 1", 3", 6", 10", 12" penis? There's a “too big" 'too small" for every woman, in specifics particular to each woman at her own personal preferences.

 

5. On the idea that women or men will/should care about what others will think of their being with a shorter partner: Could anything be more immature? In high school, sure, I can see that being an issue for girls. For mature people? Who decides on partners based giving real consideration to what others' think? No one I want to know. A ludicrous claim. This above goes for short men not wanting tall(er) women.

 

6. Many other things play a role, of course. I have some extremely impressive accomplishments relating to the esteem in which I’m held by other people re: leadership, charisma, intellect, academic achievement, etc. I was very popular as a kid, not picked on, not a wimp. I’m an alpha male and as masculine as any other guy, just 5’4”. Part of the bit of success I've had is based on my writing quality, humor, ability to articulate my ideas, intelligence etc. in my profiles. I've been given numerous compliments to this effect. I slave over my profiles. I don't operate under the delusion that height is of importance in some final way.

 

7. On the "tall men are more successful" thesis, of course it's not absolute. At some point men can be too tall for many women. Studies of personals ads show that the most sought after height--defined as being included in women's height preferences they list, is 6'0" with 95% acceptance rate. It declines above and below that

 

8. On women commenting that they’re tall, but most men they date are shorter: If you're 5'11, at least half of all men are shorter than you. The dating pool is shaped by actual, not relative, height. I've seen female acquaintance’s profiles and see that they list something like at least 5'10, 5'11, 6 ft, yet they complain incessantly about there being "no good men." Well, reduce your target population by at least 50%, and guess what: You've eliminated at least half of all "good men," defining "good men" without relevance of height considered

 

9. p.s.

How does this height/build/strength phenom play into gay (male/male or female/female) relationships? Are lesbians more attracted to other women based on height and strength? Gay men more attracted to smaller males? I don't know. Anyone? If isn't a big deal, does the biological argument carry much weight?

 

Wow the way these things can spin out of control very quickly. As hsould be obvious, my curiosity extends beyond just my persoanl situation, or the height realtionship in general. I'm heavily intellectual, so I love to think about and analyze everything.

 

Great post..Its easy for somebody to stand on their soapbox whos not a short guy and say its all in your head or dont wory about it just worry about the women who like you

 

Mens height or lack of is the bgigest physical dealbreaker in the dating world why wouldnt a short guy feel a little bad abou it or at least ponder why women are so height obsessed??

 

And i dont belivee the whole its bioligical thign its too easy an excuse for shallowness..

 

You cant tell me telling women who are impressionable creatures from an early age on the whole tall dark and handsome thing and short fat and bald doesnt stay in their heads and effect them when picking a mate

[allina]

Okay, 20 years from now, your son comes home from school, crying, and you ask him, "what's wrong Tyler?" and he says "Jane McManus turned me down, she said I was too short for her!".

 

What would you say to your son to make him feel better, and would you believe what you say?

 

Uhh I'd tell my son to quit crying like a little p*ssy or Jane McManus will never like him

[allina]

And to keep this on topic, I personally don't care about height. I'm 5'4 and wear heels often but I don't care if a guy is short.

[cognac]

Great post..Its easy for somebody to stand on their soapbox whos not a short guy and say its all in your head or dont wory about it just worry about the women who like you

 

Mens height or lack of is the bgigest physical dealbreaker in the dating world why wouldnt a short guy feel a little bad abou it or at least ponder why women are so height obsessed??

 

And i dont belivee the whole its bioligical thign its too easy an excuse for shallowness..

 

You cant tell me telling women who are impressionable creatures from an early age on the whole tall dark and handsome thing and short fat and bald doesnt stay in their heads and effect them when picking a mate

 

I also don't buy the whole biology thing and it's a really shoddy argument. Imagine if men made a whole sale rejection of brunettes and blamed it on biology. There are many sensible physical dealbreakers, I can understand and don't blame a woman who would not date a man who is very deformed, ugly, effeminate, fat, etc, these are sensible things. But when women won't date "the perfect" man because of his hair color, eye color, or height (in other words, the vast majority of women), that is just retarded.

 

Women say we are bad and shallow and visual. But women are all that plus unforgiving, they certainly don't start to love us men until their 30's and 40's when their looks erode and even that nowadays is become rarer and rarer.

[SoulSearch_CO]

I don't think I could date a guy that's shorter than me (I'm 5'7"). I was married to a guy exactly my height, although with his spinal condition (DDD) he started to shrink a little. If I hadn't already been in love with him, I wouldn't have started dating him had he been shorter than me. I've dated only guys that are taller than me since divorcing. I find the couple inches above me to be sexy. Most recently dated a guy only 2 inches taller than me...but he was still at least taller than me.

[gypsy_nicky]

if your face is attractive and your well proportioned there shoudnt be a problem with being short.

[betamanlet]

I don't think I could date a guy that's shorter than me (I'm 5'7"). I was married to a guy exactly my height, although with his spinal condition (DDD) he started to shrink a little. If I hadn't already been in love with him, I wouldn't have started dating him had he been shorter than me. I've dated only guys that are taller than me since divorcing. I find the couple inches above me to be sexy. Most recently dated a guy only 2 inches taller than me...but he was still at least taller than me.

 

 

I don't think I could date a woman with smaller breasts than I have (I'm a DDD) I was married to a woman with exactly my breast size, although with her breast cancer hers started to shrink a little. If I hadn't already been in love with her, I wouldn't have started dating her had she had smaller breasts than me. I've dated only women with bigger boobs than me since divorcing. I find the bigger boobs to be sexy. Most recently dated a gal with boobs only slightly bigger than me...but she was still at least bigger than me.

 

 

My questions for everyone here, is why would this be considered pig headed and shallow, but it isn't with women and height?

[Rudderless]

Is this a joke. Another height thread. Seriously, what is the BIG deal??? Are you that same Stumpy guy who started all those height threads?

I don't think it's stumpy, it's just an easy attraction for people to post these sorts of things up. Some people also have a weird need that if they are miserable/unsuccessful they find something to blame it on then argue that everyone else with that same attribute has to be miserable too. There is absolutely no point in engaging with these people as their agenda isn't discussion/promoting well being, it's simply to drive their own problems down everyone elses throat

[Rudderless]

But they are though. Studies show that taller men are more likely to get hired and get promotions and higher pay just because of their height.

 

http://edition.cnn.com/2007/US/Careers/02/02/cb.tall.people/

 

http://www.slate.com/?id=2063439

 

The thing is, short guys don't whine so much about this, and only whine about being rejected by women..

 

The irony is of course the authors have failed to give equal weighting to, and you've completely missed the fact that this earnings disparity in relation to height applies equally to females. That would be because of a cognitive predisposition towards only seeing what you want to see which is far from what the reality is.

 

The recent studies showed that the overall quality of life differential relating to height is somewhere in the range of three percent. Which is totally negligible. However, the media love to run these kind of stories as it taps into human nature, why believe you can be a winner when it's far easier to accept you're a loser?

[paperchase]

...Imagine if men made a whole sale rejection of brunettes and blamed it on biology...

 

Women would simply die their hair. LoL!

 

But seriously,

 

If they are too short, they wear 5" heels.

If they have small breasts, they wear miracle bras and long for breast augmentation.

If they look too old, they get botox and then face lifts.

If they are too fat, they starve themselves or try liposuction.

 

And with all these imperfections, they will rule out a man based on something he can't control. Now I'm obviously not talking about all women, but it makes sense why some who are extremely preoccupied with their looks, would seek a tall dark man in shining armor. They need that to feel good about themselves. Plus if they are consumed with reaching a societal ideal on beauty as it relates to themselves, they would naturally apply the same standards to a prospective mate.

[Rudderless]

 

So I guess short men need to compensate by having a better personality.

 

No, people don't have to compensate as there is no "them" in terms of the dating pool, there are only other individuals. Hence you only have to meet the right person, which isn't anything to do with the number of people you attract on a perceptive level, and only to do with meeting the right person - which is simply about going out and meeting them, not becoming mr super charming/intelligent/witty etc.

[SoulSearch_CO]

If they have small breasts, they wear miracle bras and long for breast augmentation.

Or those of us that have small breasts come to terms with the fact that they just ARE the way they ARE and yes, it cuts down on certain men being interested, but WTF do I care? Kind of like the height issue - I can accept what I've been given on my body and be happy and confident... or I can go through tremendously painful plastic surgery to put stupid silicone things in my chest that'll get in the way, make it harder to sleep on my stomach, and attract the more shallow guys, and put me at risk of terribly painful (and potentially disfiguring/life-threatening) complications. Boy, oh boy, that sounds like an awesome option.

 

I guess my point is... A lot of guys prefer chicks with bigger boobs. I have A's. A lot of chicks prefer guys with height. I accept my boobs (and love them!) the way they are and have had no trouble finding guys that I adore that love them, too. Quit bitching about your height, guys. Confidence goes a long way. I'm tired of hearing the complaints. Learn to love yourself so that others can even be given the opportunity to do the same.

[cognac]

Or those of us that have small breasts come to terms with the fact that they just ARE the way they ARE and yes, it cuts down on certain men being interested, but WTF do I care? Kind of like the height issue - I can accept what I've been given on my body and be happy and confident... or I can go through tremendously painful plastic surgery to put stupid silicone things in my chest that'll get in the way, make it harder to sleep on my stomach, and attract the more shallow guys, and put me at risk of terribly painful (and potentially disfiguring/life-threatening) complications. Boy, oh boy, that sounds like an awesome option.

 

I guess my point is... A lot of guys prefer chicks with bigger boobs. I have A's. A lot of chicks prefer guys with height. I accept my boobs (and love them!) the way they are and have had no trouble finding guys that I adore that love them, too. Quit bitching about your height, guys. Confidence goes a long way. I'm tired of hearing the complaints. Learn to love yourself so that others can even be given the opportunity to do the same.

 

There's the difference see. Guys who are under 5'8 won't ever "stop the bitching" because at this point it's all we can do. Unlike you with your tiny boobs, us shorter than the average man will find it very hard for a normal looking, OK woman to accept us. Mean while you can find many normal, attractive, and similar to you people find you attractive even with your small rack, a guy who is not atleast 5'10 will never have this pleasure.

 

It is just the way the cookie crumbles and I won't change it. But don't give me that love yourself crap. I'm sure we all love ourselves, it's just hard or impossible to find people of the opposite sex who love us.

 

I mean, you even made sure to mention your husbands spinal condition causing him to slightly shrink in the same sentence as your little divorce story. Don't pretend they don't overlap.

 

 

Stop blaming us and just accept you are insanely shallow ladies or pretending to be so accepting and care only about personality . You are no better than us, in fact you are far far worse than anyone ever imagined.