Male height in looks "rating"--Is 5'4" a "1"?

[Sport]

Hi everyone. I read almost (95%) of all posts made by you. As i am a short (you may say very very short) 5'4" male i found this thread interesting and i liked the OPs. I am 21 and while some may say i'm still young i would like you to read what i have to say (write), based on my life experience so far.

 

As i said i am 5'4", lets say good-looking (as I've been told even though i dont care), do workout when i have time and have an above average body shape (when i was in high school i was number one in school rank in arm wrestling ), always the first in math, physics etc. My IQ tested by non-official IQ tests is above 140 although this may not be that accurate. Im very friendly with all people (intelligent, stupid, ugly, handsome/beautiful, fat, thin, religious, nonreligious) and always help my friends, never insult anyone. Guess what... I've never had a relationship with a girl. Is that a coincidence? Even the girl friends i have (not girlfriends) are 90% shorter than me. Why so? Coincidence? I don't think so.

 

I liked some of the posts from Cognac, AD1980, betamanlet. Even though some

of you guys find yourselves short (I remember the shortest of you was 5'7"), imagine how much harder i have it.

 

No matter all the girls here say. Its not a preference, height is a standard. Short men cant be compared with fat/small boobs/ugly nose women. Its all different because men don't have these kind of standards, they have preferences yes, but not standards and that's why this comparison is poor.

 

As i read all the posts here i didn't learn anything new. I was just curious if i could find some people that think like me and i fortunately found some. And fortunately (again) i have seen (in real life) there are women "with brain" that don't see us men as accessories, but like us for what we have inside, just like i like those kind of women.

 

Until lately i was so depressed with my height and it has been an obstacle to me for many other things, i couldn't even study. But i have thought about it very much and now i'm more than happy with my height. You will wonder why. I now see life from a different angle.

 

And now this is the most important thing i like to say to all short men: I see my height as an obstacle for having (getting) sex partners but thats not that important. Whats important is finding someone to love and that loves you AND i would never love a girl that makes height as a requirement because thats just not the type of girl for me, i like them brained and doing so means she's not brained. And by doing this, guess what, it seems i'm the most picky in this threat because with wanting girls brained i excluded 97% of all the girls. So its fine for me for them not to want me. If i want sexual satisfaction i have some "public girl" numbers in my contacts list in my phone (and im not embarased at all and even if i was no one would ever find out) so the worst part of this is only money . If you can see life this way and you find yourself intelligent and seek love firstly not "accessories" than you will definitely feel better.

 

Thanks to all who spend their time by reading my post.

[cognac]

This is the problem with being a short guy, you start off as a "1" no matter what. What does that mean? That even if you are absolutely, 100% perfect in every other way, you are still a 1. God forbid you have even the slightest physical or personality flaw coupled with being short, that brings you down even less than a 1!! That is the reason most short guys have the experience that only extremely fat or extremely ugly women seem to be interested in us

[PJKino]

Hi everyone. I read almost (95%) of all posts made by you. As i am a short (you may say very very short) 5'4" male i found this thread interesting and i liked the OPs. I am 21 and while some may say i'm still young i would like you to read what i have to say (write), based on my life experience so far.

 

As i said i am 5'4", lets say good-looking (as I've been told even though i dont care), do workout when i have time and have an above average body shape (when i was in high school i was number one in school rank in arm wrestling ), always the first in math, physics etc. My IQ tested by non-official IQ tests is above 140 although this may not be that accurate. Im very friendly with all people (intelligent, stupid, ugly, handsome/beautiful, fat, thin, religious, nonreligious) and always help my friends, never insult anyone. Guess what... I've never had a relationship with a girl. Is that a coincidence? Even the girl friends i have (not girlfriends) are 90% shorter than me. Why so? Coincidence? I don't think so.

 

I liked some of the posts from Cognac, AD1980, betamanlet. Even though some

of you guys find yourselves short (I remember the shortest of you was 5'7"), imagine how much harder i have it.

 

No matter all the girls here say. Its not a preference, height is a standard. Short men cant be compared with fat/small boobs/ugly nose women. Its all different because men don't have these kind of standards, they have preferences yes, but not standards and that's why this comparison is poor.

 

As i read all the posts here i didn't learn anything new. I was just curious if i could find some people that think like me and i fortunately found some. And fortunately (again) i have seen (in real life) there are women "with brain" that don't see us men as accessories, but like us for what we have inside, just like i like those kind of women.

 

Until lately i was so depressed with my height and it has been an obstacle to me for many other things, i couldn't even study. But i have thought about it very much and now i'm more than happy with my height. You will wonder why. I now see life from a different angle.

 

And now this is the most important thing i like to say to all short men: I see my height as an obstacle for having (getting) sex partners but thats not that important. Whats important is finding someone to love and that loves you AND i would never love a girl that makes height as a requirement because thats just not the type of girl for me, i like them brained and doing so means she's not brained. And by doing this, guess what, it seems i'm the most picky in this threat because with wanting girls brained i excluded 97% of all the girls. So its fine for me for them not to want me. If i want sexual satisfaction i have some "public girl" numbers in my contacts list in my phone (and im not embarased at all and even if i was no one would ever find out) so the worst part of this is only money . If you can see life this way and you find yourself intelligent and seek love firstly not "accessories" than you will definitely feel better.

 

Thanks to all who spend their time by reading my post.

 

Great post,and I dont even have a problem with preferences we all have them i have a problem with the condescedning attitude towards short Men by women

 

Im around 5/7 1/2- 5'8 on a good fay which is a little short but nothing extreme and have been called short by girls 6 inches smaller then me,unless a girl is towered over she thinks a guy is short..

 

I have no problem with women who are a little insecure being allot taller then their Man but when a women wouldnt give a guy a chance who she may otherwise be attracted to because hes only 3 or 4 inches taller instead of towering over her well that doesnt make much sense to me..

 

AS you said its not even a preference its a standard and demand for most women to be towered over..Men have nothign close to that in terms of demand from the opposite sex..

 

I have friends who prefer thigns on a women like big breasts or ass but if therye attracted to the womens face and rest of her if that one trait is missing i dont know a guy who wouldnt give the girl a chance unlike women with height

 

Why women worship height like they do is beyond me..I dont buy the hardwired into thinking, i think its much more cultural and social otherwise all women from around the world would have these strict height demands as much as White and Black women from the US do..

Edited January 2, 2010 by PJKino

[PJKino]

Yea it definitely is social conditioning but I still can't pinpoint exactly what it is in society that caused women to be SO obsessed with even ridiculously small amounts of height.

 

Media,society in general

 

You have terms like Tall Dark and Handsome and then the opposite Short Fat and Bald women hear all their lives

 

Women are impressionable creatures who desperately want to fit in and be accepted by societies ideals of beauty..

 

Why do you think they flip out everytime they gain a few pounds just because some skinny girl in some bikini is shown on a commercial and they feel they have to be as skinny as her?

 

If theyre told Tall Men are attractive shroter are not theyre gonna listen..

 

So with all that add in womens natural insecurities about themselves and the need to feel feminine by having to have a guy tower over them and then thinking somehow theyre always in danger and need protection and you have a recipe for Tall guys being worshipped..

Edited January 3, 2010 by PJKino

[Sport]

Media,society in general

 

You have terms like Tall Dark and Handsome and then the opposite Short Fat and Bald women hear all their lives

 

Women are impressionable creatures who desperately want to fit in and be accepted by societies ideals of beauty..

 

Why do you think they flip out everytime they gain a few pounds just because some skinny girl in some bikini is shown on a commercial and they feel they have to be as skinny as her?

 

If theyre told Tall Men are attractive shroter are not theyre gonna listen..

 

So with all that add in womens natural insecurities about themselves and the need to feel feminine by having to have a guy tower over them and then thinking somehow they're always in danger and need protection and you have a recipe for Tall guys being worshipped..

 

I think you are perfectly right and the word worship is very suitable except the fact that when you say women you shouldn't mean 100% of all women. Fortunately not all of them see things this stupid way. I agree that it's media's fault but not at all because women should see thing with "their eyes and mind" and not with those of the media. These kind of girls have a poor character and i personally don't even want to get to know them. If I talk to them with respect and support them for any reason (even if i don't think they have it right), i do it just because maybe i might need them later to help me (i know thats not that good). I do this because i don't like these kind of girls, who think with others mind. I call these type of people, people that live for others and not for themselves. Thats the point, these kind of people suck. "Oh look at my boyfriend, he is tall, see? the boys think I'm the best, thats why the tallest of them came with me" They measure their overall life success with the appearance of their boyfriend. If they see a friend of them with a tall boyfriend they get jealous. All these people do is life cycle, they are just brought to life so that humanity will continue, just to do the reproduction process. Just like animals. I personally don't want these kind of people in my life. If they get in my way ill "use" them, if i need them, I'LL get in their way and "use" them. Thats what life has taught me. And trust me i can "use" them with ease and get what i want except sex (because I'm not tall enough to date them) because their IQ level seems to be the lowest (of course it is, all they think is clothes, shoes, hair...). So why should we short men bother??? Because we have it harder to get sex partners (without money )??? Thats why i am confident with myself. Sorry for being a little "aggressive" but thats not the first time i discuss this topic and it really irritates me.

 

And as i said before not all girls are like this (very fortunately). So girls who really feel things the good way (they really think height doesn't mean anything and don't have these kind of stupid standards), the girls who live for themselves and don't really care what others think (why shouldn't a girl date a shorter guy?? huh?? because others think this is weird??? if you find a good answer to that than I'll admit i am 100% idiot) are the ones that deserve my friendship or more. Ill happily help them with what i can. But i guess these kind of girls are at a very very low percentage in these days. I have more to say but maybe later because no one will read such a long post. And i guess this thread "changed" a little compared with what the OP wanted but changed naturally. BTW ill answer the OP question based in my experience so far (i doubt he'll read this ) . Yes, you (and me too) are a "1".

[lostwithafuture]

Although a lot of us shorter men do not want to accept it, height plays a major role when it comes women. It is true that this is unfair but I am afraid the rules have already been set and we can not change society and especially not women.

 

So I think if a guy is short he should do some of the following to help himself succeed with women and in life generally:

 

1. Work on his personality and make sure his confidence is high, I am sure this will make him stand out.

2. Try and find women who understand/value a man for his principles and personality. Women who are after diamonds and handbags are normally shallow and will never understand value you for what you are.

3. If you feel height is a big problem for you then wear shoes that make you taller, its not cheating but just a loophole in the system (I don't personally do it)

 

I am 5'7 myself and I have experienced this height problem but crying about it will not help. Get used to rejection, build a strong personality and I am sure every short guy will do great!

[dreamergrl]

I think all of you obsessed with being short should for a support group.. far far away.

[cognac]

I think all of you obsessed with being short should for a support group.. far far away.

 

 

This is essentially our support group, I'm shocked as to how many guys like me there are, shows you it's not me that's the problem. While being short is a huge romantic disadvantage, and once in a while socially, it's not that horrible. I personally like being 5'7 for a variety of reasons. No need for a support group as it doesn't really interfere with my daily life outside of interacting with women, but then again I am only 21, it's not as urgent that I find a woman right now (strippers and hookers can fill that void worst case scenario ), but I can't imagine how helpless a guy in his 30's like betamanlet must be feeling.

 

If I ever bring it up, it's only on this forum or when talking about romance that I bring up not being tall.

[Throne Of Lies]

I'm the OP.

 

Stop the insanity people.

 

 

Hey rock dots, I don't get what you are saying, empirically. What if you aren't 5-4, but you aren't 6-0, either? What if you are in the eight inches between those two heights? Are you a 1 because you are not six feet, no matter how close you come to the mark, so it is a 1 or 10 situation? Or is there some sort of gradient, where a 5-11 person is an 8 or 9 and a 5-7 person is a 4 or 5? Can a woman even tell the difference between a 5-11 man and a 6-0 man? I doubt I could from anything but right up close.

 

Additionally, aren't there things that directly mitigate height, rather than compensate for it by raising your overall score? Maybe being hung like a racehorse? I understand that wouldn't be common knowledge though.

 

Plus, isn't the whole ranking system basically a determination of how fit your genes are, how likely your offspring are to survive and reproduce themselves? Isn't that the bottom line of the whole she-bang? Because if it is, it seems like height could be mitigated pretty easily, and that the ranking of one you are assigning might be knee-jerk. I mean, I SAY I only will only date non-white women less than 5-2, but honestly, the standard is way more lax than that. Maybe it is the same way here, and the technology assisted blocking/screening is an artificial construction that is throwing off your data.

[Sport]

I think all of you obsessed with being short should for a support group.. far far away.

 

Oh, look at what we have here one of the 97% of the girls i mentioned (not so rare huh?). What really is your problem? Are you trying to help anyone? If you are not than no one here needs your opinion. You already read what people here wrote and you should know that we know what you (plural) think which is like 97% of the others. Do you really think that we short people should form a support group??? If you think so (i think you do) then your brain is a 2-dollar brain (is that much?). If that was a good idea there would already be groups like that. Why there aren't? Let me explain, maybe you are able to get it: now, if we formed groups like that do you think that we would have more success in romance? Would girls now see us as more attractive? Would you? If you would, you are a 2-dollar brain. If you wouldn't, you are a 2-dollar brain because you had the idea to form the group. Another very important reason that those groups dont exist is that it would seem like we are "begging for mercy". Me begging for mercy??? LOL and... to continue it, would not have success because height discrimination is "hidden".

 

Aaaaand... as you see, what cognac said in the post before mine is true. You see these groups exist. But they are virtual and none of us shows his identity. Me, cognac and others (sorry but i dont remember the names) are part of the group as you can see.

 

Now please dont reply any further if you dont intend to say something more interesting.

 

And to Throne Of Lies: The OP is right. He did not categorize all men within the 5'4" - 6'0" segment. He said 5'4" is a "1" because only 10% of the girls wants to date men 5'4" or shorter. So everyone shorter than that is a "1" to (practically it is "0") and if we suppose that 90% of the girls would date men 6'0" or taller that makes men taller than that a "10".

[OpenGL]

50% of american males are less than 5'10.

 

One standard deviation is about 3 inches. So that means 34% of males fall between 5'7 and 5'10, meaning that if you are in this range statistically you are in a very reasonable variation range.

 

The only point of that statistically it would be hard to argue that falling within one negative standard deviation is "short"

[ridinghero]

I'm glad I found this message thread. I periodically look u things like "depressed height" or "depressed short" and find good threads like this. I'm 33, and have experienced a lack of dates from being short and unattractive throughout my entire life. Ever since high school, I've felt somewhat inferior to most guys, as they all seemed to grow to average or above average heights, yet I was around 5'6". I also wear glasses and I've been slightly overweight all my life.

 

At first I tried to be very nice to women, but noticed that no one was really interested in me in that way. Beautiful women, no way, not a chance... I never had one date in high school or had many female friends. In college, I knew I had to overcome my problem so I started talking to more women, and asked several out but they never accepted my offer. Being rejected caused me even more mental trauma. Some had boyfriends already, and others treated me like I was some sort of creep or that they didn't really want anything to do with me.

 

I took to looking for dates online and had more success, especially in the earlier years of the internet, at least finding some "action" every now and then (hell, you go years without sex in your early 20's, it will drive you mad), but rarely with "good looking women" and they rarely wanted anything to do with me after one date or one time hanging out. Some would in fact meet me, then within a minute say they had to go to help their friend, do something, some lie. But I knew they were lying. To keep meeting girls that were slightly taller than me was very annoying, but it seemed like so many were close to my height or taller, what could I do?

 

I only really ever had success with overweight women or women that really had no standards, sad to say, or total misfits. Look, I'm not saying anything negative about them, I dated them, befriended them, but it would have been nice to be able to attract others, something average or normal. The only time I really had "some" interest by women was when I went on the Atkins diet and went from 175 lbs (at 5'6") to 145 lbs during the summer of 2006. I also wore contacts (even though I can't see well with contacts because of my astigmatism) and tried to dress better, etc. I also had a new job since I just graduated from college, so I thought I had "all the pieces". I had more success, yes, but in my mind I was the same person... why were they showing me some interest now because I dropped a few pounds and I don't wear my glasses? Then I started to hate them even more because a few changes showed how superficial most women are.

 

Still, it felt like I had to do so much just to attract any attention... I met some girls, none really above a 6 or 7, had a few dates, some fun, but still can't say I broke into the "upper echelon of women". I ended up dating a girl I met, much younger than me, but still she's on the "slightly overweight" level, and she really doesn't have a career or higher education. She's nice though, and I'm still dating her, but I don't think I've accomplished much in meeting higher end women... at my regular "dorky short with glasses" look or my upgraded "lean mean but still short wearing contacts to impress you but I can't see anything" look. So now I just hate everybody.

 

So yeah, height discrimination does exist by women. I think it's worse now than it was years ago... it's definitely worse online now than say 10 years ago, when the internet wasn't so mainstream. Now you've got mainstream women online and they're got totally different "standards" than the typical non mainstream net user 10 years ago.

Edited January 4, 2010 by ridinghero

[theumlaut]

Hey rock dots, I don't get what you are saying, empirically. What if you aren't 5-4, but you aren't 6-0, either? What if you are in the eight inches between those two heights? Are you a 1 because you are not six feet, no matter how close you come to the mark, so it is a 1 or 10 situation? Or is there some sort of gradient, where a 5-11 person is an 8 or 9 and a 5-7 person is a 4 or 5? Can a woman even tell the difference between a 5-11 man and a 6-0 man? I doubt I could from anything but right up close.

 

Somewhere I said the rate at which one appears in women's height preference ranges varies by height. 5'4" appears in fewer than for 5'8", which fewer than for 5'"10 which is fewer than for 5'11".....So, no it isn't zero or one.

 

and.then.some

 

"I do want to apologize for my use of that term [Napoleon Complex], given your frustration. Yet, I still feel that you're overreacting just a tad, given the context in which I used the term."

 

I wasn't referring merely to or because of you. It seems that most of the world, hence those here, believe in such a thing, a myth. It's all around. Your comment just offered an opportunity to address the issue for the benefit of everyone here. No offense to you.

 

ordinary girl

 

in replying to my

 

"I'm the OP.

 

Stop the insanity people.

 

The thread starts one way, get hijacked by the first 10 pages of posters addressing everything but the QUESTION I posed....."

 

"what did you expect? this is a public forum. besides, the idea is that people sometimes approach your point from a view you hadn't thought of. you are supposed to be on a learning curve on LS."

 

My point was that all of sudden whole thoughts, ideas, statements, criteria, traits are being attributed to me, rather than addressing the topic. So I log-in in after 4 weeks and find people saying: "OP, you need to quit worrying about X, quit being an insecure loser because you think this about women," or then there's the thread person approach "The OP is someone who needs............blah, balh, blah."

 

Commenting not on ME or anything I said. Then when I do post a follow-up, someone comes in with, "But you x,y,z..............." things having nothing to do with me but now associated with me because some space cadet said all these things about me. What I found when I returned was a thread not addressing what I was addressing but at all. Not a different point of view, but OFF-TOPIC, making it a different topic of the sort about short men that appears repeatedly when I was trying to do something differently. Is it too much to expect people be accurate and relevant to the topic of the OP? No. Does it happen often? Yes, but that doesn't justify it or negate the value in my attempt to set things right again.

Edited January 11, 2010 by theumlaut