So why is only one side heard...

[Snowflower]

for the WS's that have told their story and wanted to make it right, I'll still give them my opinion that the BS would be better off without them and maybe they should do them a favor.

 

but then in cases of posts like that I will go on to tell them that there are certain things that a BS is going to expect and deserves from the WS IF the WS wants to try to "save" the marriage.

 

but if they sit there and tell us that they can't give up their AP, or sit there and tell the story of how wonderful the OW/OM is and that they will always hold them dear to their hearts.....sorry, all bets are off. One of the things a WS should do if they want to "save" their marriage is to give their whole heart back to the BS. And if part of their heart belongs to someone else, then that is something the BS shouldn't have to settle or stand for.

 

In other words, they ask BS's their opinions on what they can do and what BS expect....and as a former BS, I tell them. I know that I didn't stay with my WS, but if I had stayed, I'd tell them what I'd expect.

 

They want to get inside the minds of BS's to find out what they are thinking......and we are telling them. Every BS is different, but unless they hear what more than likely is running through their own betrayed spouses' head, they have no idea how to proceed from there.

 

Their side? Fair enough, there are things a BS needs to do in the process too. But it still doesn't change the fact, in most cases, that one went outside the marriage, and the other one did not. Both spouses are responsible for the state of their marriage, but only one, again in most cases, chose to create a huge imbalance in the marriage by going outside the marriage. So that is the problem when trying to see.."their side".

 

They can work on the marriage, but the problem still remains....one of them went out and screwed someone else, in most cases. there isn't anything that can undo that, nor anything that will erase it from the BS's mind. It will always be a scar....they can heal, but a scar nonetheless remains.

 

Nice post, dexter!

[silktricks]

Most of the WS that I've seen beaten down here have actually been beaten down more by OW than by BS. The only ones I've consistently seen treated well are the WS who talk about how much they miss and continue to love their AP. The ones (such as you, CIK) who have returned to their spouse and talk about their marriage as opposed to their affair are pretty much beat up.

 

But to the OP of this thread. You are right. People should listen to everyone's stories, not just the ones we can relate to or the ones that make us feel comfortable.

[Dexter Morgan]

I am a WS & every time I have tried to chime in & offer help & how things were with my situation - how I've "gotten over" my AP - how my marriage is doing MUCH better....I'm beaten down.

 

that might have to do something with the fact that your husband forgave you, but if he ended up doing the same, that you wouldn't give him the same consideration and you'd leave him. the double standard is what gets you those responses.

 

 

So, you are right schewter - 90% are BS & they are mad as hell. Bitter as hell & most won't ever let go of what happened to them. For that, I'm sorry

 

no......your not.

[LakesideDream]

I imagine that the 90% number for BS's is fairly accurate. I understand BS's stiking out out of bitteness, and general angst... for awhile. I've been around here for years now and I can say that very few BS's views moderate. They can't stop being brightly angry.

 

That's to bad. Maybe Tony could re-arrainge the forums a little, set some guidelines and inforce them. Attacking every WS, and OM/OM will not add to the dialog, or bring about understanding. It will only reinforce what we already know/feel.

[NoIDidn't]

I imagine that the 90% number for BS's is fairly accurate. I understand BS's stiking out out of bitteness, and general angst... for awhile. I've been around here for years now and I can say that very few BS's views moderate. They can't stop being brightly angry.

 

That's to bad. Maybe Tony could re-arrainge the forums a little, set some guidelines and inforce them. Attacking every WS, and OM/OM will not add to the dialog, or bring about understanding. It will only reinforce what we already know/feel.

 

I don't think this is a fair thing to say, at all. Do you have anything to back this up?

 

This particular forum continues to get new members all the time. Is it possible that you are lumping in the newly hurt with those that have moved on and been here for awhile?

[schewter]

<<Is it possible that you are lumping in the newly hurt with those that have moved on and been here for awhile?>>

 

Frankly, I don't think those who have been here for a while have moved on.

[Devil Inside]

You know the longer I have been here the more I realize...this place is not that black and white. Yes we have some infamous bitter BSs, and yeah we have some cocky WSs, and there are plenty of OWs that are quick to go on the attack. However, for the most part, people here offer a variety of opinions based on their experiences with infidelity.

 

I am both a BS and a WS. This is a unique position and I think it gives me insight into both sides. I also identify with OWs because I thik that the pain they express is very familiar to me.

 

Most of the feedback I have gotten has been very insightful, helpful, and well intentioned. I really have been helped by reading the words of many of the posters here, regardless of their acronym.

 

Of course this is only my experience here. I have seen others get a pretty good bashing. In fact, my first thread here I was given my lumps. If I had read cake eater one more time I was going to go crazy.

[Samantha0905]

I've liked the advice I've received here so far. I'm a WS. Yes, sometimes posts can seem harsh, defensive, unreasonable, etc. -- both mine and those posted in response to me. There are a lot of emotions involved in being a BS, WS, OM/OW. It's to be expected.

 

I suppose I gravitate to some people's lines of reasoning here more than others. I don't just mean those who agree with me. I usually learn more from someone who doesn't agree with me on everything. It's a process if a person is open to actually thinking about what someone else is saying to them.

 

In some cases here already, I can tell when a person doesn't share a majority of my mores/values (and I'm not just talking religious stuff here) and although I may find their posts interesting (or even entertaining), I don't attempt to apply the same sort of reasoning to my situation.

 

As for the insults if they come flying, well -- I don't need to be accepted/liked by someone on the Internet I don't even know. I sure don't take sharp barbs to heart.

[NoIDidn't]

<<Is it possible that you are lumping in the newly hurt with those that have moved on and been here for awhile?>>

 

Frankly, I don't think those who have been here for a while have moved on.

 

Now, this is fair to say. Some haven't moved on. And some have.

 

But it doesn't change the fact that there have been several newly aware of the cheating BSs here.

 

There is a difference between the newly hurting and the deeply ingrained anger and bitterness in the range of BSs.

[NoIDidn't]

If I had read cake eater one more time I was going to go crazy.

 

Hey, cake-eater!

 

LOL

 

Crazy yet?

 

[schewter]

I can't get past the cynicism. Seems like every time someone new comes along with a story from any perspective the first thing they encounter is skepticism. Good example, read any thread where one spouse had an EA...then see how quickly people are speculating that it was probably physical...like they know the WS better than the BS. Or look at a WS's story...one where they actually express remorse, shame, guilt; and see how fast people are to judge everything from their level of sincerity to their overall disposition. One thread I'll never forget is where the lady got extremely drunk at the bar and ended up involved in a threesome with a guy and another girl...the going over she got on here was ridiculous. People accused her of lying, etc. which I think is ridiculous...why would anyone lie on an anonymous message board to a bunch of people they don't and never will know?

[confusedinkansas]

that might have to do something with the fact that your husband forgave you, but if he ended up doing the same, that you wouldn't give him the same consideration and you'd leave him. the double standard is what gets you those responses.

 

I believe I said .. Due to the circumstances NOW in our marriage I MAY NOT forgive him. I never said - NEVER forgive him. I don't keep score or memorize posts either. (sorry )

 

And the reason I'm bashed is because I see life as having gray areas. Not just black & white or my way or the highway (Oh, sorry Dex's way or the highway) I'm more open minded.

 

Also, how do you know what I feel about any BS? It's very obvious some people here were very hurt by what their spouses choose to do. I am sorry that they had to endure that.

Why I'm explaining myself to YOU I'll never know....But it just seems that between this thread & the other one you are right now frequently posting on - You ASSUME a great deal about people. Funny thing is - You don't know these people from adam...or me either.

[NoIDidn't]

I can't get past the cynicism. Seems like every time someone new comes along with a story from any perspective the first thing they encounter is skepticism. Good example, read any thread where one spouse had an EA...then see how quickly people are speculating that it was probably physical...like they know the WS better than the BS. Or look at a WS's story...one where they actually express remorse, shame, guilt; and see how fast people are to judge everything from their level of sincerity to their overall disposition. One thread I'll never forget is where the lady got extremely drunk at the bar and ended up involved in a threesome with a guy and another girl...the going over she got on here was ridiculous. People accused her of lying, etc. which I think is ridiculous...why would anyone lie on an anonymous message board to a bunch of people they don't and never will know?

 

There are lots of people posting here that aren't BS/WS.

 

There are lots of trolls on the internet, in general, who get a kick out of lying to strangers to see what their reactions may be.

 

You can almost tell who those posters are right away.

 

I have a question: how do WSs feel when posters ask why they aren't more concerned about the feelings of their former OP when they have committed to seeing if their marriage is salvageable?

 

I have an opinion on this, but will wait for responses (if any).

[Snowflower]

 

I have a question: how do WSs feel when posters ask why they aren't more concerned about the feelings of their former OP when they have committed to seeing if their marriage is salvageable?

 

I have an opinion on this, but will wait for responses (if any).

 

NID, I am most curious to hear your opinion because I have noticed this same thing about most repentant WS.

 

I think the WS who realize they really 'messed up' by having an affair and really would like to save their marriages are the ones who are the most severely bashed of all here on these boards:

 

1. The repentant WS usually get no sympathy from BS... usually the repentent WS receives a response of, 'well, if you really loved your spouse, you wouldn't have betrayed them in such a low down way"

 

2. The repentant WS gets no sympathy from the APs here because the WS epitomizes the MM/MW in their own situation who has returned to the marriage. They are also accused of being all out liars-- to themselves, their spouses and their AP about their own feelings--like these WS actually don't know how they feel. They absolutely MUST have loved their AP.

 

3. The repentant WS gets little support from other WS who are mourning the end of the affair and their feelings (those of the repentent WS) are questioned and often disregarded as false...after all, they must truly love their AP.

 

I know I would love to hear from more WS who did realize their affair was a bad choice and are trying to save their marriages...because these WS are like my husband.

 

WS who are 'lost' in their feelings of real 'love' for their AP get more support than those who figured out they really want to save their marriages.

[HarmonyHope]

WS who are 'lost' in their feelings of real 'love' for their AP get more support than those who figured out they really want to save their marriages.

 

Well I think there's obvious reasons for that. A WS who has genuine feeling for both BS and AP comes across as a tortured soul more than a user. It's a whole lot harder to have sympathy for someone who purposely duped an AP into thinking they shared love purely to get sex. OW in particular seem to react to the WS's who say they were in Affair fog and never really loved the AP because it again brings up the unpleasant question of - if it wasn't really love, what's wrong with them, why aren't they loveable? You can see it screaming in some of the responses. An of course I think it's only natural for the BS to want to feel that the WS's feelings for the AP were minimal and not comparable to what is felt for them. It appears to be a very sensitive and dicey issue.

Edited October 29, 2009 by HarmonyHope

[eeyore1981]

I'm a BS who is still in a marriage that on paper looks very bad. I have been bashed for not getting divorced. I think at least a few people on here think I am stupid, but it's hard to get offended, because sometimes I agree with them.

 

This is a forum for people to express their opinions. If someone wants to think and state I am a dumba$$, more power to them. If someone, myself included, wants to think and state someone is a worthless POS for cheating on their spouse, more power to them.

 

Every now and then some WS story will bring out some sympathy in me, and I do try to help. I've seen that from several posters, reaming in one thread, trying to help in another. My advice is to pick out what you can use, and leave the rest. It's usually pretty obvious by the first sentence or so what kind of post it is going to be.

[Snowflower]

Well I think there's obvious reasons for that. A WS who has genuine feeling for both BS and AP comes across as a tortured soul more than a user. It's a whole lot harder to have sympathy for someone who purposely duped an AP into thinking they shared love purely to get sex. OW in particular seem to react to the WS's who say they were in Affair fog and never really loved the AP because it again brings up the unpleasant question of - if it wasn't really love, what's wrong with them, why aren't they loveable? You can see it screaming in some of the responses. An of course I think it's only natural for the BS to want to feel that the WS's feelings for the AP were minimal and not comparable to what is felt for them. It appears to be a very sensitive and dicey issue.

 

Oh, I agree...it has to be very painful for some posters to read of about a WS who says the affair was a 'mistake,' they didn't love their AP, etc. I get that...

 

But, like it or not, there are some WS who feel exactly like that...and they don't get much in the way of support from any side of the 'affair triangle,' which is unfortunate.

[Dexter Morgan]

I believe I said .. Due to the circumstances NOW in our marriage I MAY NOT forgive him.

 

 

how convenient after the fact. lets hope he doesn't make the "mistake" you did, because he will be a victim of timing

 

 

 

And the reason I'm bashed is because I see life as having gray areas.

 

you REALLY think that is why? I don't think so.

 

 

Not just black & white or my way or the highway (Oh, sorry Dex's way or the highway) I'm more open minded.

 

of course you are, you'd be a hypocrite if you weren't. However it has nothing to do with being open minded...it has everything to do with you the fact that you will sympathize with people that have done as you have. Again, you'd be a hypocrite if you didn't:o so at least you aren't a hypocrite:) (with the exception of not giving hubby back the same courtesy of giving him a 2nd chance if he did as you did)

 

 

Why I'm explaining myself to YOU I'll never know....But it just seems that between this thread & the other one you are right now frequently posting on - You ASSUME a great deal about people. Funny thing is - You don't know these people from adam...or me either.

 

I know they are either cheating or betraying someone.

[NoIDidn't]

Well I think there's obvious reasons for that. A WS who has genuine feeling for both BS and AP comes across as a tortured soul more than a user. It's a whole lot harder to have sympathy for someone who purposely duped an AP into thinking they shared love purely to get sex. OW in particular seem to react to the WS's who say they were in Affair fog and never really loved the AP because it again brings up the unpleasant question of - if it wasn't really love, what's wrong with them, why aren't they loveable? You can see it screaming in some of the responses. An of course I think it's only natural for the BS to want to feel that the WS's feelings for the AP were minimal and not comparable to what is felt for them. It appears to be a very sensitive and dicey issue.

 

I don't agree with the minimizing the feelings thing for all BSs. I am firmly in the camp of not wanting to know - until I want to know and do something about infidelity in my marriage. But, once I want to know, I want to know EVERYTHING - even the stuff that will hurt me more.

 

I don't think the AP are questioning the affair fog as a question of lovability. I think they are doing it because its a ray of light (reality) into the affair bubble. I thnk its them realizing that their AP could be feeling the same and them not wanting to hear it.

 

The affair fog has been argued here ad infinitum. Most say they don't think it exists or that BSs use it to excuse the affair. But that's just what they want to believe. Even psychologists say it exists. Its a hormonal state. And it exists in other areas of our lives too. We are certainly conscious and aware of our decisions, we just aren't being realistic about the impact of them.

 

You hit the nail on the head, though. It is a dicey and sensitive issue. And it doesn't bring out the best in some when it comes up.

[NoIDidn't]

Oh, I agree...it has to be very painful for some posters to read of about a WS who says the affair was a 'mistake,' they didn't love their AP, etc. I get that...

 

But, like it or not, there are some WS who feel exactly like that...and they don't get much in the way of support from any side of the 'affair triangle,' which is unfortunate.

 

There really are WSs that feel that way. But some want to keep them in the mindset of the A.

 

I think they do get some support though. Just that the negative voices now claiming that they used their AP are drowning them out.

 

If they stay long enough to get PM privileges, they find that they have posters that want to help but don't see the point in jumping into a heated thread.

[Dexter Morgan]

I'm a BS who is still in a marriage that on paper looks very bad. I have been bashed for not getting divorced. I think at least a few people on here think I am stupid, but it's hard to get offended, because sometimes I agree with them.

 

I'll never bash someone for staying. I sympathize with BS completely(unless the BS is a physical abuser, or something like that...but even then, cheating is inexcusable)

I understand how confused, hurt, and too many times desperate after finding out a spouse betrayed you.

 

I will advise getting rid of them, but don't think anyone is "stupid". Betrayal brings out all sorts of emotions. I just believe not thinking clearly is one of them. But you are not stupid.

 

Now I have replied to someone who, after I advised them, that it was clear that they didn't want to divorce, and wanted to discount what I said, and got snippy when it was clear I was on their side.

 

And in a case like that, still, no bashing....just telling them at that point that its clear they will justify anything to keep from divorce....and knowing that I just tell them...."then forgive them and have at it".

Edited October 29, 2009 by Dexter Morgan

[Snowflower]

 

If they stay long enough to get PM privileges, they find that they have posters that want to help but don't see the point in jumping into a heated thread.

 

Perhaps they do get support through PMs...but I still don't think many stay around long enough.

 

It's like no matter what the repentant WS says, it's not good enough for anyone: BS, OM/OW, or other WS.

[HarmonyHope]

I don't think the AP are questioning the affair fog as a question of lovability. I think they are doing it because its a ray of light (reality) into the affair bubble. I thnk its them realizing that their AP could be feeling the same and them not wanting to hear it.

 

Look at what's going on right now with FallenAngel. She's questioning her own worth. Those kind of posts appear over and over. I think that is in fact the reason behind "they don't want to hear it". So I'm going to agree to disagree on this one.

 

Even if we could all agree that affair fog exists, it doesn't necessarily mean it applies to every situation. Did it apply to GEL's husband - their relationship did survive the light of day? Or OWoman, or the others? Granted, they are a rarity, but my point is that there will likely always be disagreement about when it applies.

[silktricks]

Look at what's going on right now with FallenAngel. She's questioning her own worth. Those kind of posts appear over and over. I think that is in fact the reason behind "they don't want to hear it". So I'm going to agree to disagree on this one.

 

Which is so sad, because she sounds like an exceptional woman. BUt.... it seems to me that she is questioning her own worth not because of anything that has or has not been said here, but rather because of the way she was first treated by her ex-husband and now by the MM... I personally believe that her interaction here is strengthening her, not weakening her.... at least I certainly hope that is the case. I like her.

[Holding-On]

Make a comment without backing it up. Interesting concept.

How so? Am i the most incorrect person on a thread?

 

Agreed. I think a comment that snarky needs to be taken off the thread. It added no value.

 

Well, my parrot friend, maybe you are proving the point of why WS don't post here (or just about any place).

If you are posting on threads overrun by BS and OP then you will probably most often be standing alone on the other side of any debate. You are the person most often to be disagreed with. That your opinions, suggestions and experiences are perceived as "incorrect" to the BS/OP POV does not make them so.

The only "correct" post an WS can acceptedly make in the LS community is an abjectedly remorseful and prostrate one. Look at the section in bold by the very OP!