Bad Boys.....

[Arabess]

Speaking of BAD BOYS....do women really gravitate towards them?

 

If so....why?

 

And what really DEFINES a BAD BOY?

[yes]

a bad boy, to me, is a man who's unwilling to committ and is screwing around, so to speak.

 

women gravitate towards them because of the challenge of changing their minds into committment, because bad boys are never smothering, because they seem macho and independent, because they have had many women (or seem like it) so women expect them to be better lovers ... etc.

 

that's my 2c,

-yes

[jenny]

i admit sometimes i prefer so-called bad boys to boys who are embittered that their traditional platitudes have somehow failed to obtain <evidently default-deserved> non-stop booty. it seems a special kind of causal error: if A is not getting B, it must be because B wants to be mistreated.

 

in fact, i would place complaints about women wanting bastards as an action on the bad-boy scale, but much much lower down. we have a kind of spectrum of actions that demonstrate 'badness,' which works for womens' actions as well. it's subjective, of course.

-------------------------------------------------

let's see:

 

10-9: physical and emotional abuse, intentional baiting then avoiding, hitting on friends, borrowing or spending partner's money. talking slanderously about one's partner to anyone who will listen. destroying property.

 

9-8: lying about important things, (i.e. i have a partner already) enraged outbursts, self-righteousness, insecurity leading to clinginess, jealous paranoia leading to spying and invasion of privacy, avoidance, or intrusiveness on partner's family, workplace, or friends. breaking plans often, no excuse offered.

 

7-6: martyr behaviour; pathologizing partner; stereotyping partner; refusing to believe partner or acknowledging partner's needs; medium lies: what he or she did in vegas. breaking plans often, with excuses. resentment.

 

5-4: consistent lateness. mockery of partner's opinions, constant baiting for civil debates. demanded affection to the point of groping in public. unrelenting bitterness against other gender. voiced dislike of partner's friends or family and avoidance of same.

 

3-0: small lies (the fish was thiss big) arguing with friends, refusal to be sentimental according to the whim of hallmark. refusing to say acceptable things about babies, the environment, lillith fair, tasteless jokes, etc.

 

0-1: complaining about not getting booty and/or committment with the presumption that it is the gender's fault; showing interest then leading on (but with sincere intentions) and flaking off; not calling unless you want to.

 

-------------------------------

i'm ok with dating guys in the 0-4 range; i'm around there myself. if the guy is too traditionally 'good,' i will be able to predict every conversation we will ever have. i like to be challenged; i despise phony virtue; so i'm ready to put up with some failures of manners and norms to have an increased amount of mental pleasure.

[bark]

i like to be challenged; i despise phony virtue; so i'm ready to put up with some failures of manners and norms to have an increased amount of mental pleasure.

 

jenny, we're made for one another!

 

Although...I'm not sure about the "mental pleasure" part.

 

Come to think of it, you're failure " of manners and norms" criterion describes most of the male LS posters. I don't know whether we are, on balance, normless and morally defective (as opposed to our better half) or we're just more honest. Maybe there's less stigma when "bad boys" post "bad boy" comments, as opposed to "bad girl" posts.

[Duke]

I had women all over me when I was bad, now that I'm good the only thing that I can lay is my head on the pillow every night.

[Skittles]

I have dated " bad boys" who ultimately rejected me because I was told I was a bad girl...not bad in the having lots of sexual partners sense, but bad in the sense that I did not play the good girl to their bad boy...

 

I wasn't" Natalie Wood" to his"James Dean"....

 

so I got dumped, maybe because ultimately, I wanted to be James Dean?

 

That sounds weird...phew...anyway one of us usually ended up being Rebel Without a Clue..

[bark]

I had women all over me when I was bad, now that I'm good the only thing that I can lay is my head on the pillow every night.

 

Duke, you kill me.

 

You're right though. The New York Times , I think, had an article about "dads and cads" in the Science Times. Woman do prefer "cads" for a few nights of sexual pleasure, but not for the long haul. If I remember "cad" traits are what one would expect. Women select 'dad" types for the long haul because they want a reliable co-parent and provider.

 

Even cads serve a function...

 

We can't win. If we're cads, we're morally deficient and if we're dads, we're boring. It'a almost enough to make one Gay. Almost.

[Arabess]

Originally posted by Skittles

 

Rebel Without a Clue..

 

Now THAT was a good play on words Skittle!!

 

I'm still reading Jenny's comprehensive list........I'll be thinking about it all thru my semi-date tonight. I promise to come back and post a suitable answer.

[jenny]

lol! yes! tell us what happens!

 

jenny, we're made for one another!

 

lol, i agree, except i really love lists! watch out, bark, you're going to get all the loveshack ladies in another frothy tizzy!

[bark]

you're going to get all the loveshack ladies in another frothy tizzy!

 

No can do. I'm not yogi-mon. My goal is minimalist: I don't want to offend any of the "loveshack ladies."

 

You're right: perfect virtue is perfectly boring. Plus, who wants to link up with a moral scold who hews to absolutes.

 

I could only love a partner who is able to tolerate, and is not threatened by, ambiguity. I abhor utopian ideals whether in politics or interpersonal relations. (Apologies to I. Berlin).

[yogi-mon]

you should worry less about offending people and say what you

believe.

 

If someone cant hack your view, well tough ****ing $hit for them.

Im not going to butter up my opinions for fear of offending someone

either they accept me for who i am, or dont.

 

its called honesty

[Hushed]

yeah women do gravitate towards "bad boys" because we like a challenge, it's pure excitement. the definition of a "bad boy" is someone that doesn't comply.

[jenny]

on honesty:

 

er..i agree to some extent. but many people are socialized, myself included, to be 'pleasers.'

 

further, too many years of schooling and debate club teaches one that there is nothing to be gained from insulting the opponent or phrasing things in such a way as to alienate possible common ground. nothing has more authority than reason, etc. we have that robert frost quotation in almost every manual:

"education is the ability to listen to almost anything without losing your temper."

 

but all that aside, i admire the hell out of people who just say what they believe and do not seek to debate or change. i may not agree with them, or understand them, but as clancy mentioned elsewhere, they are soooo fun to read.

 

 

cheers, j

[bark]

I hear you yogi-mon, and I agree. One thing I've noticed is, that with some significant exceptions--jenny, lostforwords, arabess, etc.--guy posters are edgier, more honest about the attractions of the dark side and less damn judgmental. We are more open than many of our female counterparts , not only as to disclosing our vices, but also as to accepting our vices. We're less inclined to pass down judgment from on high. Moral preening is not our style. We're not afraid to offend.

 

We represent LoveShack's Id in some respects.

[Vivid_29]

I guess you women love the badguy, because you all love what isn't good for you - eg - chocolate, cheesecake!

 

Back in my Army days, (age 18-24), I was terrible to my women! I swear, when I would meet someone, I would tell them straight to their faces that I was no f**king good for them and that I would break their heart. And they're like, "Ahhhhhh, Ok, so when I can I call you?" And I'm thinking to myself, "What the f**k?"

 

My ex, the one who dumped me 4 months ago, got me to calm down, a little. Now, that she is gone, I turned bad again.

 

 

 

You know what is interesting? I think women sometimes view us guys more as addictions, then their mate. It's like you all are addicted to the pain of having your hearts broken, over and over and over again. You don't kick us to the curb -- YOU ALL COME BACK FOR MORE!!!

 

WHY???

 

I swear, if a woman ever treated me, the way I treat them, they would be kicked the curb immediately!!!

[jenny]

here's the thing:

 

in many cases, these girls have low self-esteem, and bad-boys treat them the way they expect to be treated - the way they are comfortable being treated. equally, the guy has no other ideas on how a woman should be treated and may have insecurity issues of his own.

 

in some cases, however, we know exactly what a bad boy is and what his function is. these are not the guys one cooks for, one takes home, one bothers getting the brazillian for; these are the fun ones - the ones in between the life-altering guys. one loves talking to them, and hanging out with them, and occasionally having interesting sex with them; but one does not invest.

 

this is mostly what i do: keep the bad boys for buddies, laugh at their heinous exploits and have fun with them; but spend the time, money, and mental/sexual energy on the good guys. it's like a virgin/whore thing, except i really platonically love my bad-male friends, at a suitable emotional distance.

[Vivid_29]

Originally posted by Skittles

I have dated " bad boys" who ultimately rejected me because I was told I was a bad girl...not bad in the having lots of sexual partners sense, but bad in the sense that I did not play the good girl to their bad boy...

 

I wasn't" Natalie Wood" to his"James Dean"....

 

so I got dumped, maybe because ultimately, I wanted to be James Dean?

 

That sounds weird...phew...anyway one of us usually ended up being Rebel Without a Clue..

 

I kind of understand your situation.

 

Let's see here. The good girl vs. the bad girl. Although, I find them both appealing, I tend to lean more towards the good girl!

[Vivid_29]

Originally posted by jenny

here's the thing:

 

in many cases, these girls have low self-esteem, and bad-boys treat them the way they expect to be treated - the way they are comfortable being treated. equally, the guy has no other ideas on how a woman should be treated and may have insecurity issues of his own.

 

in some cases, however, we know exactly what a bad boy is and what his function is. these are not the guys one cooks for, one takes home, one bothers getting the brazillian for; these are the fun ones - the ones in between the life-altering guys. one loves talking to them, and hanging out with them, and occasionally having interesting sex with them; but one does not invest.

 

this is mostly what i do: keep the bad boys for buddies, laugh at their heinous exploits and have fun with them; but spend the time, money, and mental/sexual energy on the good guys. it's like a virgin/whore thing, except i really platonically love my bad-male friends, at a suitable emotional distance.

 

Jenny - With that kind of insight and attitude, you would be the ideal woman that I'd be chasing around all night!!!

 

You know, I used to think to myself, 'Why do these women let me get away with this crap?"

 

You are right - They probably have self esteem issues; afraid of being alone, afraid that noone else would want them. So they stay and well, um, you know the rest!

[moimeme]

They probably have self esteem issues; afraid of being alone, afraid that noone else would want them.

 

Never could see the charm in 'bad boys'. It's so cliché and trendy to be entranced by 'bad boys'! Bores me to tears, actually. The 'bad' is practically always a sham or a misdirected coping mechanism - who needs that? But then, I was never the one who grudgingly admired the schoolboys who smoked and spat and otherwise 'defied' the administration in exactly the same manner.

[Vivid_29]

Originally posted by moimeme

Never could see the charm in 'bad boys'.

 

Moimeme - You mean to tell me that you would never marry a man like me? But, but, but, why?

[moimeme]

Moimeme - You mean to tell me that you would never marry a man like me?

 

You'd turn good for me!

[yogi-mon]

You look like a chic i've slept with.

[Vivid_29]

Originally posted by moimeme

Moimeme - You mean to tell me that you would never marry a man like me?

 

You'd turn good for me!

 

You better be strong, and show me a firm hand, my darling!

 

There have only been a few that had the ability to set me straight!

[Skittles]

Sounds as if you like a challenging partner Vivid.

[Vivid_29]

Originally posted by Skittles

Sounds as if you like a challenging partner Vivid.

 

Yeah, I think everyone does.

 

I think that's one of the reasons why I'm so bad. Because you women, let me get away with it.

 

There have been a few that have put me in check, such as the ones that give me an ultimatim to clean up my act or they'll leave. Then, I'll be like, 'Oh s**t'. I may behave myself for a day or two and then I'm back to the same old stuff!