Better Dayz...moving on from break up

[Angel1111]

Hey angel, I'm doing fine. It's still a struggle and my mind wants so much to play tricks on me and convince me that he just made a bad boo-boo but everything else is ok...... but it's the way he has talked to me about all this that bugs me, he barely takes any responsibility and wants to put this "disruption" on me. He even texted and told me about loving me, that he does, but "I'm difficult to love" and that "I'm alot to deal with." What? What is that supposed to mean, and how does he think I'd respond to that?

 

Hope you are well too, and I'm so glad you've been able to help muse out so much, I hope you realize how wonderful it is to have a solid rock like you to lean on in times of confusion and self-doubt.

 

That's so nice of you - thanks. It's nice to know I can be of help. I meant what I said to muse - I feel a warm connection with the two of you - it's really neat. And I'm doing great, btw. Thanks for asking.

 

I know, the mental/emotional battle seems to go on for awhile, doesn't it? I was once in the middle of divorce when I decided to give my ex another chance. Papers had been filed, we were separated and a couple of months had gone by. We did serious talking, we made up, he acted contrite and in love and had all the right answers and I bought all of it. So I eventually stopped the divorce proceeding and 6 mos later, we move back in together again. The problems all start again almost the instant I set foot in the door. This is why I tell people not to go back with people like this because it's just a waste of time. They put on their sweet, most charming behavior, act like they finally understand how badly they've acted and how it's not worth losing you over -- until they get you where they want you again - and then they really turn up the noise.

 

Your ex is telling you all that stuff so that you'll feel responsible and come crawling back to him. He thinks it takes the focus off of his stupid behavior and that it makes you feel bad that he thinks badly of you. He's an idiot - just ignore him. It's just part of the game and he's running out of plays at this point and probably getting desparate - thinking you might actually be serious about leaving him.

 

This is fun all of us chatting in one thread - I hope you don't mind, muse, but I think it's really cute and fun. Let us know if it bugs you, though.

[Angel1111]

i agree angel has truly been a rock! like the ones on the ...(anyway let me stop the dramatics) but it's true angel i appreciate you.

 

heartford, i feel you. don't feel guilty about anything. i think i'm convinced your X is very similar to my recent X.he too tries making me feel guilty but i refuse.i do feel sentimental sometimes and miss him but not guilty. my X proposed and i return the ring in a day...needless to say he wasnt happy about it.so he's made comments like you might end up being one of those women who never get married.cause you so picky...yada yada yada. AND so i think your X is feeling guilty and ashamed and doesn't know any other way to respond but by trying to make you feel bad. not justifying his behavior in any way. have you seen him lately? does he ever pop up at your place? does he have CRAZY potential?

 

Hey - again, thanks. That's nice to hear from both of you. I'm trying to catch up on all these posts I've missed. Well, you've had some 'mixed nuts' in your life, muse, that's for sure. It sounds way too much like my life in a lot of ways.

 

I sometimes think these guys pick sane and stable women because we balance them out. My ex once told me that I kept him grounded. Well, I guess that's not really a sign that the guy's a nut because I've had sane guys tell me that as well. I agree with Heartford that your other x telling you that you may never marry because you're too picky is just mean. It was a manipulative thing to say. My son's dad used to tell me stuff after we were separated in order to frighten me - like telling me that the new craze in car thefts was to steal the insurance papers from the car and get the person's home address - or other things like that. I suppose this was supposed to make me go running back to him out of fear for my life. I told him that I didn't get into fear about stuff like that and that I didn't let criminals run my life. So ridiculous. And when that didn't work, he'd try the infamous guilt trip. Don't trust guys like this - underneath all that is a man who's out to control you. Which means he has his best interests at heart, not yours.

 

Yes, be picky! Please! By all means, be picky. Expect better and you'll get better. Stop tip-toeing around these guys and say what you mean. It doesn't mean you have to be rude or angry - just say what you think and feel. You and Heartford are great women. You're desirable women - why shouldn't you have a good, decent, stable-minded guy? Why shouldn't you be with a guy who's your match? There's no reason why you shouldn't.

[muse08]

 

This is fun all of us chatting in one thread - I hope you don't mind, muse, but I think it's really cute and fun. Let us know if it bugs you, though.

 

no, no, no...i love it! it doesn't bother me one bit. keep it going. i think the information that's being shared is helpful not only to us, but others who may be reading but not yet engaging in the thread.

 

so keep the chat going! thanks angel and good to see you!

[muse08]

Yes, be picky! Please! By all means, be picky. Expect better and you'll get better. Stop tip-toeing around these guys and say what you mean. It doesn't mean you have to be rude or angry - just say what you think and feel. You and Heartford are great women. You're desirable women - why shouldn't you have a good, decent, stable-minded guy? Why shouldn't you be with a guy who's your match? There's no reason why you shouldn't.

 

yes, go girl! lol. thanks angel! i do believe this and i know this to be true. but i think for me personally, i have to be even more selective b/c the men who i've allowed into my life all have some things in common(with the exception of my old xman; more about him later). they are like my father, who i have issues with.ANGEL, did you notice any similarities btwn your Xs and your father?

 

i need to break this cycle soon! i'm about to tell my old X who i went out with yesterday that we need to ease up, when he contacts me again. i'm getting a feeling that he's about to break my peace.i'm finally getting some peace and clarity and i don't feel like getting any attitudes or dealing with him trying to impose his feelings on me for his own selfish reasons...

 

imo, people in general, but more specifically women, have to be careful not to allow others (men in our lives) to impose their objectives on us. i was talking to my girlfriend today and we were discussing how a friend of mine was trying to CONVINCE me to jump into another job description that matches exactly what i no longer want to do. i've told him what my intentions are,yet he tried to finagle my decision. this is true with my love life as well. so often i've been in relationships with men who i wasn't initially attracted to. yet they FINAGLED they way into my life and tried to gradually impose their goals and objectives on me and it's very frustrating. leaves one feeling resentment, at least for me. this is how i felt with my current XMAN and the OLD XMAN who is now trying a helf-*ss attempt to become present in my life.

Edited November 3, 2009 by muse08

[Angel1111]

You know, I can't make any correlation between any of the men in my life and my dad - except for xMM. He was driven and decisive like my dad, he's funny and light-hearted. All of my other exes were nothing like this. I seem to have had an innate belief that I don't deserve good things in my life. I say 'seem to have had' because I'm working on this. I don't know where it came from except possibly because I was the youngest of 4 children and always got hand-me-downs, or because I was exceptionally sensitive - I just don't know. My parents loved me and my sisters say I was spoiled - I don't know where my feelings of inferiority came from. It was possibly my own doing or my own interpretation of the world. And it's so subtle that I didn't know I was like that for a long time. But I'm beginning to notice that everything seems to hinge on the fact that I haven't believed that I deserved certain things. My dad was a cool guy and we laughed with one another a lot. He was also very driven and ambitious and he loved us - his family - like crazy.

 

I think you would really like a book that talks about exactly what you're referring to about women needing to be cautious about who we let into our lives. It's entitled, "Getting to 'I do'" by Dr. Pat Allen. I really think the author titled this book incorrectly because it's not something I would've ever picked up, and I think the points made have even more than just getting married. My sister told me about the book and I was astounded by the information in it. The author talks about these very things - about why women need to be more protective of themselves and a lot of other things that are invaluable. Check it out if you like to read books like that. And, yes, you're dead on target about that - we do have to be very careful about who we invite into our lives.

 

It does seem that people don't really listen to what other people are saying. I try to be very careful about that when my friends tell me about something they like or don't like. Trying to convince someone to go against their preferences is disrespectful, in my opinion. And, conversely, whenever people choose to ignore my preferences, I just ignore them. It's very important that you honor what you want, because your wants and desires are very important. Even in relationships, each person should honor the other's preferences. Sometimes this requires compromise - but that's not the same as ignoring what someone wants. I don't think people really understand this.

[muse08]

indeed i do like reading books like that and i will look for it.

 

i don't know why you would think you don't deserve good things in your life...are you serious? i guess the rest of us are no different if we continue to allow not so god things into our lives . i just feel like sometimes it's easy to become blind to what a man is really about unless you make mental AND written notes about what you want. i too have seen THE SECRET and i won't talk much about here out of respect for the thread but i will say that it makes sense. i guess i just have to really be conscious of what i'm thinking when i meet these guys...

[muse08]

It's very important that you honor what you want, because your wants and desires are very important. Even in relationships, each person should honor the other's preferences. Sometimes this requires compromise - but that's not the same as ignoring what someone wants. I don't think people really understand this.

 

that's an EXCELLENT point and a good discussion...

[Angel1111]

indeed i do like reading books like that and i will look for it.

 

i don't know why you would think you don't deserve good things in your life...are you serious? i guess the rest of us are no different if we continue to allow not so god things into our lives . i just feel like sometimes it's easy to become blind to what a man is really about unless you make mental AND written notes about what you want. i too have seen THE SECRET and i won't talk much about here out of respect for the thread but i will say that it makes sense. i guess i just have to really be conscious of what i'm thinking when i meet these guys...

 

It's your party, honey, you can talk about whatever you want. I think the real point is that, yes, decide on what qualities you expect in a man and change your expectations about men, but also listen to your instincts. As far as expectations are concerned, if we expect a man to lean on us, for him to be the drama king, if we say that 'well, all men cheat' - that's our expectation is and that's what we'll get. If we expect a man who has no emotional control, or who really wants a 'mommy', again - what we get. If we expect a man who acts like a man, who has total emotional control and strong ethics, who wouldn't dream of controlling you, that Mr. Wonderful will show up. I will only go with one of two options in the future - either he's a great man and has the qualities that I must have, or I'll never marry again. There is no in between for me anymore.

 

On the topic of paying attention to our instincts - without fail, whenever I have met a guy that I didn't like within 10 seconds of meeting him, that opinion never changed. Or if I felt warning signals in the beginning - that always proved to be correct. With my first husband, I liked him but he was too simple-minded for me. He was a good guy, though, and we should've just remained friends. My second husband was someone I had some slight misgivings about in the beginning and those only increased with time. My third husband seemed way too covert in his behavior and it wasn't long before I knew I should've walked away. But I told myself that I would just keep it casual and would just be sure to never marry him. Ha. Not mentioning a few of the guys in between those other train wrecks. And with every marriage, I wanted to bolt before I said 'I do'. So, I guess getting to 'I do' wasn't the problem for me - it was getting to the desirable 'i do'. Sounds like you and Heartford are in the same boat. No shortage of guys, just a shortage of quality guys.

 

It's easy to look at someone else and say they deserve good things and all that - but it's quite another for us to see it in ourselves, I think. It's never really been a conscious thought for me - that I don't deserve this or that. But I do believe it's been the underlying reason behind all the decisions in my life.

[muse08]

And with every marriage, I wanted to bolt before I said 'I do'. So, I guess getting to 'I do' wasn't the problem for me - it was getting to the desirable 'i do'. Sounds like you and Heartford are in the same boat. No shortage of guys, just a shortage of quality guys.

 

yeah. the desirable 'i do' is what i want as well.not just any 'i do' will do...

 

i could've married my current X had i kept the ring, but i could never see that happening with all the issues that exist. i have more peace right now than i've had in a while and i want that to last as long as possible.

[Angel1111]

yeah. the desirable 'i do' is what i want as well.not just any 'i do' will do...

 

i could've married my current X had i kept the ring, but i could never see that happening with all the issues that exist. i have more peace right now than i've had in a while and i want that to last as long as possible.

 

That's really good to hear. I'm sure you'll still have days that feel up and down but finding any amount of peace at this stage is a really good sign. To you and Heartford - I say, keep your options open, enjoy this time to yourself because it's way too early to get involved with someone else right now; you have a lot to figure out and reflect on. Find out what you like without outside influence, define it, find out what you want to do - and once you do all that, you'll be ready for a healthy relationship I think.

[muse08]

That's really good to hear. I'm sure you'll still have days that feel up and down but finding any amount of peace at this stage is a really good sign. To you and Heartford - I say, keep your options open, enjoy this time to yourself because it's way too early to get involved with someone else right now; you have a lot to figure out and reflect on. Find out what you like without outside influence, define it, find out what you want to do - and once you do all that, you'll be ready for a healthy relationship I think.

 

true...true and...true!

[muse08]

I'm sure you'll still have days that feel up and down but finding any amount of peace at this stage is a really good sign.

 

a bit down right now, but i'm going to get through this. just wanted to check in.

 

how are you ANGEL & HEARTFORD?

[Angel1111]

a bit down right now, but i'm going to get through this. just wanted to check in.

 

how are you ANGEL & HEARTFORD?

 

Hey, girl! I'm sorry you're down. How's your day going? And how does it feel being away from that old job and everything?

[muse08]

Hey, girl! I'm sorry you're down. How's your day going? And how does it feel being away from that old job and everything?

 

heyyyy. i'm better 2day thanks.

 

my mind hasnt felt this free in a long time... even though i'm dealing with the B.U. and other stuff,it's a different kind of stress than i had when i was at that job...seriously. i'm still glad i made the decision(s)...

 

u doing ok?

[Angel1111]

I'm glad to hear that. Sometimes we can't imagine how great the freedom can be, can we? I hope you continue to enjoy it. Stay in touch!

[muse08]

I'm glad to hear that. Sometimes we can't imagine how great the freedom can be, can we? I hope you continue to enjoy it. Stay in touch!

 

hey and happy friday!! how are things with you? have you heard from heartford? i hope she's ok.

 

the date went nicely, w/the old X(not the recent X,although u said you'd write them both off). we haven't gone too far yet. i don't plan on it right now. it was a nice day.he said face to face again that "this time around is going to be so much better, i promise u". i'm a bit of a naysayer at this point,so he told me "ok, you're gonna see". so he was calling and keping in touch for the past several weeks until last night...

 

he texted me saying "hi". i wz in the midst of texting someone else as well, so i texted my old X by mistake saying "ur welcome,anytime." he said "what". i texted back telling him what happened,but go no response from him.i texted again and he only gave me a one or 2 word text. is he pouting or what? was i wrong?

 

any other time i would be broke up about his nonresponsiveness.but i'm just venting right now b/c i want to know how much (if any) i am to blame for the way things transpire in my relationships whether very serious or not. i'm not sad or distraught,just curious.so any feedback is welcome.

 

thanks!

[Angel1111]

Hey, girl! I hope you're doing well. No, I haven't heard from Heartford but I'm sure she's fine.

 

Little things like the ex being non-responsive is just one of those things that's going to kind of gnaw at you even if it isn't a huge deal. And it's probably gnawing at him in a different way. You can't really expect him to respond to you because you've broken up and he either doesn't want to talk, doesn't feel like chatting, or is just enjoying the game of ignoring you. Don't worry about it because you're probably not going to have the answers about what he does and why he does it.

 

Just please be careful with the other ex. It's very tricky to just casually date someone who's serious about you. You may tell yourself that you're just killing time but it's a dangerous place to put yourself in. I don't know anything about the guy except for the few things you told me but just like with what happened with your most recent ex - how you went against your initial instincts and let him convince you to be in the relationship - it could happen again in this situation. You have certain instincts about him and you shouldn't ignore them. It's not easy to date casually and eventually you're going to be put in the position to be serious or take it to another level. And then you'll convince yourself to sleep with him by, once again, telling yourself that it's not serious, etc., etc. All the things he's doing - texting, dating, occupying your time, saying it's going to be different this time - are designed to draw you back in and before you know it, you're in another not-so-great relationship.

 

Just please, be very careful about who you allow into your life. As we've discussed before, women especially need to be very protective of themselves.

[muse08]

hi angel. good hearing from you. how are things with you?

 

things are ok on my end. taking it one day at a time. he started calling again the next day or so. i know he's not for me.

 

my older X has been in contact but pulled back for some reason.not sure why. it lets me know that he's really not serious about what he said (which i assumed) or is intentionally trying to antagonize me.so that's that...

 

you're right on point by reminding me to be careful of who i allow into my life.

[muse08]

actually for the older X to pull back shouldn't come as a surprise to me.afterall i was the one who told him i wasnt ready.i kind of feel like he's trying to create this kind of situation for his own selfish reasons.

[Angel1111]

Hey, you! I'm doing fine and getting excited about the holidays coming up. I love this time of year. I hope it won't be hard for you considering the circumstances of the break up and everything. That can make things tough, I know.

 

Who knows what the older ex was after or whether he's really serious or not? The thing is, it's really hard to go back to an old relationship because as soon as the old issues come up again, it's like being in the twilight zone, and you tend to wonder, 'what the heck was i thinking?' I don't know, if it didn't work out back then, most likely nothing has changed to make it work now. Honestly I think he was just wanting sex and thought you'd be an easy target. That's why it's a really good idea not to sleep with a guy too soon because when they're just looking for sex, they'll disappear pretty quick when they don't get what they want. I suspect that he'll be back again because I think he's just playing a game with you. Just ignore him and go on with your life. You've got better things to do.

 

One thing I've kind of noticed about you is that you seem to spend a lot of time focused on what the guy is thinking, feeling, doing, etc. I think a lot of us women are guilty of that - thinking more of what the guy thinks instead of being more introspective about what we think or feel or - God forbid - what we want. I think it's much better for us when we shift that focus back on ourselves and make sure that WE want the relationship, that WE want the guy in our lives, that he's worthy of us. Did you ever see the movie 'The Mirror Has Two Faces'? One of the things the main character says to a guy was, "I was always so worried about what YOU would think, I never bothered to think about how I would feel." (I don't think that's a direct quote but you get the picture.) I think a lot of us are like that and I think it works against us most of the time.

 

I believe it's really important that we're kind and giving to the man we love. But I don't think women are taught to treat their kindness like a gift and that if someone doesn't deserve it, if they don't deserve us, then that gift shouldn't be given so readily. I believe that if we value ourselves, then we'll start attracting people in our lives who value us.

[muse08]

I believe it's really important that we're kind and giving to the man we love. But I don't think women are taught to treat their kindness like a gift and that if someone doesn't deserve it, if they don't deserve us, then that gift shouldn't be given so readily. I believe that if we value ourselves, then we'll start attracting people in our lives who value us.

 

Amen!

 

What you said is so true...Thank you.

[Heartford]

Hey ladies, I'm here and feeling strong. I don't know how to totally explain everything I've been going thru, but I'll try. I very much love my ex, but I also hate how he's treated me. I think he's a great guy, smart, funny, articulate, good looking, but guess what? He's NOT sensitive, not to me and what I need. He doesn't care, apparently. As long as he got what he wanted he was wonderful, but now that he's not getting it he's showing a bad side that isn't desirable.

 

We've gone thru bad times together, but looking back, they were HIS bad times, not mine. NOT MINE. I doubt he could've handled half the crap I dealt with if it had been reversed. We bonded during his bad times, OR SO I THOUGHT. He loved me for them, for my strength and committment....... HA HA guess what? not enough to NOT go off with this "friend" and have a good old time without telling me about it. LIAR.

 

Now I can't believe anything he says to me. NOTHING. It's all so black and white to me now, finally. I may have been a fool before, but not anymore.

 

What bugs me, and what I suppose bugs many that feel betrayed, is WHY. Why not just break up and pursue others? Why drag us thru this sh*t? WHY WHY WHY? Why are you so selfish that you'd intentionally lie and hurt and hurt and hurt someone? I know I can't ask him, he'll never be honest.

 

Can anyone else expain?

[Angel1111]

Hey, Heartford! Glad to hear from you, and to hear that you're doing better.

 

The lies are fairly complex but I think they're mostly about protection - protection of themselves so that they can be with someone new while keeping their long-term relationship intact, and they tell themselves that they're protecting their partner by not hurting them with the truth. The problem is, their lies are usually uncovered, so this 'protection' they've worked so hard to put in place, falls apart completely. And then people end up feeling the hurt of that betrayal, and asking the questions that you ask. I think it's a lot simpler, too, to just walk away first if the relationship really isn't working.

 

But I don't think that was the case with you and your ex. I think he just liked exercising that control over you - seen and unseen control - because what these guys do isn't within the norm and you can't use typical reasoning to figure things out. It's all about that sense of power with them and it's such a subtle form of control that it's hard to put your finger on. Most of us don't think this way so it's hard to imagine someone who gets such a 'high' off of controlling other people. But, as you say, once you step away from it, you start to see things in a different light. It's not to say that guys like that can't love another person, it's just to say that they aren't capable of love that is selfless for any length of time, or they're not capable of demonstrating love in a sane and cooperative environment. That's why they end up making a person's head swim.

 

It became my rule-of-thumb that if a guy makes me feel confused or if I find myself second-guessing him or his motives, I will back away from him and the situation. I don't care to play head games with anyone and I don't waste my time doing it anymore. Lesson learned.

 

It's understandable that you want to know the 'whys' of the situation, but please don't let him tear you up because he has too many issues for you to ever comprehend. You're a good person and you deserve to be with a guy who appreciates having you in his life.

[muse08]

very well put ANGEL. i haven't been here in a while...

 

heartford, i'm so glad that you're feeling a bit better and seeing things clearer. i've been going through very similar emotions. seeing them for who they really are (crazy as h*ll) really helps...

 

control is really something...and angel is so right about them getting off on it. the selfishness of men who can't just let a woman go rather than cheat on her, is beyond me. you will heal much better now that you're able to see things more clearly. not really complicated, he's just selfish...and borderline heartless.

 

my ex is this crazy as well in a different sort of way but still rather insane and with a normal sense of composer (even more scary), even when calling me to death! he's eased up a bit now, but still calling talking crazy talk... i think you will also feel better once you realize how much more peace you have while not focusing on him and his motives. it doesn't matter anymore b/c he's C...R...A...Z...Y, lol. really. watch, you'll meet someone if not already who is a complete contrast from your ex and you'll wonder how you were consumed by him for so long.

 

good hearing from you both!

[muse08]

As long as he got what he wanted he was wonderful, but now that he's not getting it he's showing a bad side that isn't desirable.

 

you really summed it up with that statement. i think that should be an anthem for many Ex-men...really.

 

in my mind i think i've moved on. in his, i'm not sure what's going on. he called me on thanksgiving day several times. i didn't answer until later that night. he'd left a message saying that he got robbed a few hours ago...at gunpoint....this is a bit bizzare and i laughed a bit then b/c i wouldn't be surprised if he made it all up, plus he has an aunt who is an EX-cop but she's the one who confronted me all b/c he had been telling her about our relationship when i first broke up with him.she walked up to me and looked me up and down like i'd committed a crime by breaking up with him. she told him that he better be glad he had her to "take up for him"...anyhoo, i checked on him and saw him briefly because i was concerned that he'd been robbed(so he said), but he acted so stoic. he said he didn't eat his thanksgiving dinner b/c of it. later though, i thought why did it make it a point to call and tell me this. there was nothing i could do...especially after the fact. i hadn't answered his calls all day. perhaps he thought i'd have pitty sex...so glad i didn't. he wanted to, but i refused.

 

so last night he called acting like he wanted to see me, but called back an hour later to say he'll see me the next day. i think he has all this stuff planned out! he's done it several times then calls me like crazy the following day as if nothing hppened.i knew he would be planning another stunt like this and i'm glad i was already in bed not waiting up. but i wanted to see what he'd actually do. same ol' weirdo...as long as we were together and he was getting what he wanted, he was fine and never pulled anything like the fake attempts to see me and whatnot.

 

i'm one step away from getting a protective order against him. it's annoying and this morning after he kept calling and i didn't answer he says, i must be frustrated about what's going on in my life and that's why i won't answer his calls. i texted him telling him that he needs help and that i wanted him out of my life. he still didn't get it. he pretended he didn't get it and texted back saying "if you need anything let me know"...what? he is a joke and i'm sooo glad i didn't have sex with him or get back with him. now i just have to not allow his messages to reach my eyes and ears.