A question for the BS

[Spoiled]

Do you really believe that?

 

I think if you wanted to have contact you would have. My opinion and truth does a Spouse really want to hold that over you. It is YOUR choice, and I am also big on owning it ( me too, me too).

 

He closed his one email account ( still don't know if she actually knew about it, but he closed it). I am sure his cell phone records are easily available and we have had numerous ( at least 5 that I can think of, 1 hour plus phone calls) He can't hide his bill because of the situation there, that I am sure of and several texts.

 

She most likely is "trusting" him but seriously, I wonder ... how after finding out about almost 10 years, no one is that trusting, no one.

 

My H definitely did not want to "hold that over" my head. However, my xMOM's W printed his cell records and looked at them often after d-day. His W called me several times up to a week about those records. And yes, he made the choice to keep contacting me. Instead of calling from his cell, he called my cell from his job. If my H viewed my cell records once and/or requested the password, we would NOT have been communicating via phone. He gave me his trust and my username reared it's ugly head.

[anne1707]

No, my apologies but if you read you are only one of the few that say it was actually a deal breaker.

 

 

When you have been around LS longer, you will realise that my H is far from being exceptional in this being a dealbreaker for him. I can think of several long standing posters who have similar views to him.

[Spoiled]

We have only had 1 DDay..... 4 months ago..... but she found out about years and years of lies and infidelity all at that time.

 

Every situation is different but my xAP's W had many clues prior to d-day but I honestly think she chose to ignore them for several reasons. And I believe she would ignore more if any in the future. A few days after d-day, she made a public post online about how "wonderful" her H was, yet calling me screaming at both of us at the same time. Other than love, some BS want to maintain their "perfect" image to friends, church, and family or do not feel able to manage without the WS. Therefore in their best interest to forgive and reconcile. Please do not take this the wrong way, but it's the truth. My xAP's W is not a career woman, has a progressive physically disabling disease, has small children, and loves her H. She focused more on blaming me of attempting to ruin her life and using her to get to her H. It was almost a week after d-day when she found out it was me because he covered up who he was having the A with, refused to give her cell records, and never threw me under the bus. She swept the A under the rug and they were not in MC even five months after d-day.

[Spoiled]

If I had refused any requests from my H after d-day about who, what, when, and how, he would have told my a$$ to pack and get out!!!!!!!

[moaningmyrtle]

We have only had 1 DDay..... 4 months ago..... but she found out about years and years of lies and infidelity all at that time.

 

Ah just like me - one d-day and a decade of lies and infidelity.

 

I am not debating that.

 

My question was and remains is that a deal breaker?

 

From what I have seen - it is not and that is the real question.

 

My experience is it is common that there are several DDays and that it does not change/ulter the original decision of the BS to stay in the M.

 

I understand the "why it shouldn't happen" but my experience is it most often does not but does not change the decision of the BS.

 

The original question was - Did it or did it not affect your decision to reconcile?

 

You keep saying that in your experience and from what you've seen it's not usually a deal breaker. Yet you keep asking the question as if you're still not convinced either way.

 

I've only had the one d-day and I think a further one would be a deal breaker But until I experience it I don't know for sure. I'm far more mentally prepared for it to happen again is all I can say.

 

From the way you have described your AP he sounds like a particularly dishonourable man. Of course I don't want to think my H is quite that bad but realistically he has been pretty bad.

 

A better question for you is to ask him why he is continuing to betray his wife with you? And to ask yourself how many d-days you are prepared to go through before it becomes a deal breaker for you.

 

Most Loveshackers who have been through this themselves are not really taken in by your protestations that you just want to be friends, are no longer in an A and that you think he sincerely is trying to save his marriage.

[PhoenixRise]

Please don't be offended and you certainly do not have to answer.

 

 

In a previous thread last week someone mentioned that in their particular situation if they were to find out there was more contact after the WS and OP went NC, then it would be done.

 

Not judging but my opinion from viewing many here is that it happens often, and for some.... they find out a year or longer later that the NC never actually happened or never remained.

 

I know that us kissing and playing crossed the line, but my question to you is if you found out they were in ANY contact (lets say just talking) would that be the deal breaker?

 

Or do you to some "degree" expect a length of time before you really expect NC to take place?

 

 

 

I left my husband after I discovered that he was still in contact with the OW after our dday. I packed up and moved to another state and started to build a life for myself and our child without him.

 

It was only after he followed me and by his many, many actions showed me that the affair was over and that he was sincere in wanting to rebuild our marriage that I took him back. AND none of this happened overnight.

 

I saw your post on the other board and let me tell you....unless his wife can invite you over for dinner then you are not his friend. You are his affair partner and if your "friendship" is a secret from his wife then it is still an affair. You are fooling yourself to think otherwise.

[Blindsidedagainalive]

If WW continued contact just for One Second after D-day.....their would be no reconciliation because I would probably still be in jail.

 

Don't know how most of you reacted, but it was a WRATH....I scared myself.

 

I smashed phones, I broke windows, I burned clothes, I pissed on shoes.

I called OM and advised him that he would never look, talk, touch my WW ever. I hit a heavy bag for months, exercised to complete exhaustion and illness. Took traquilizers just to stay sane and still.

 

If WW was insane enough to maintain any contact, she would have moved out.

 

If I saw OM on D-day, he would not be alive and I would be in jail.

 

This is serious business here.

What I have described above sounds like a violent man...right?

 

I am a businessman who has ONE fight in my adult life.....who almost lost everything because of someone else's decision.

 

If you cheat, you are playing with death......quite simple.

[PhoenixRise]

oooh. i think this is a good one. so lets say the BS has dday. finds out about the affair and demands NC. so what benefit is that? that youre forcing your H/W not to talk to a person? that doesnt mean the feelings end.

 

if i was in that position i would want my spouse not to feel that way about their AP. just because I forced NC doesnt mean the feelings go away. so i'm thinking i wouldnt want someone to stay with me just because i gave them no other option or i had been caught. i would want my spouse to stay because I was the one they were in love with.

 

not because i was the only one left....

 

 

I am constantly amazed when OW post this kind of thing. In an affair the BS's marriage and relationship is disrespected in the worst possible way behind their back. Why is it that when the BS finds out about the affair and demands the respect for their marriage that should have ALWAYS been there they are "forcing" the WS to do something?

 

Unless the BS has built a cage in their basement and is holding the WS prisoner there the BS is not forcing the WS to do anything. The WS does not and should not have carte blanche to disrespect his/her spouse just because he/she feels like it.

 

AND in either case the the WS has a choice, to continue the affair and continue the destruction of the marriage in favor of a relationship with the AP or to recommit to the marriage 100%.

 

Doesn't the BS also have the right to determine what kind of relationship they want to be in? The feelings and needs of the WS and the AP are not the only feelings and needs that matter.

[LadyDi]

It's apparently not a deal breaker to the W of the MM I'm seeing. Several D-day's, seperations, MC, trips for them to reconcile and he always makes his way back. Then it's "I love my H sooo much" all over the place . Of course the blame is all on me, even though every single time it was him who came back/ broke NC with me. He obviously gets off scott free somehow...........

 

So no, it's not a deal breaker in my triangle.

[showmethemoney]

The point is there is no single answer Yes or No. Everybody is different in what they can tolerate in the name of love. Some BS will end a marriage at even one break in NC and some will accept numerous breaks in NC. Eventually it all comes back in the end. Every time NC is broken your telling your BS that they are second and a new D-Day occurs in the mind of the BS. Each time what little trust gained to that point is reduced back to near zero. No marriage will survive multiple D-Days ever! It's really up to the BS to decide if they want to be married or have a group partnership.

[someonesangel]

Ah just like me - one d-day and a decade of lies and infidelity.

 

You keep saying that in your experience and from what you've seen it's not usually a deal breaker. Yet you keep asking the question as if you're still not convinced either way.

 

 

A better question for you is to ask him why he is continuing to betray his wife with you? And to ask yourself how many d-days you are prepared to go through before it becomes a deal breaker for you.

 

You are correct, that is the true question to answer at this moment.

 

Most Loveshackers who have been through this themselves are not really taken in by your protestations that you just want to be friends, are no longer in an A and that you think he sincerely is trying to save his marriage.

 

I have no reason to lie to anyone here, don't know you personally and certainly don't care if people believe me or not. I have personally lost many important people in my life, and yes I would say more than the average person. My perception is different, I watched a core person take their last breath in front of me, and YES I do value friendship and love far more than most would do to that. I am not suggesting I am 100% clear on what my true objectives are, and I think I have been honest in reflecting that in my posts.

 

However, I do know that I do genuinely want a friendship, I do genuinely want to believe he is saving his marriage and while i understand why it is still considered to be an A - I also know I am more than willing to give up the emotional support and physical contact.

 

Whether you choose to believe that or not, is entirely up to you.

 

 

As for the MM being more " unhonorable" than many MM here or for that matter many OW/OM here, no...... but again we would go back to the fact that many OW will state what is happening on thier side and many BS will not want to see that it could be and is at times happening in their own backyard.

 

I asked the question because while I *believe the percentage stay, I obviously wanted to hear it in a more structured post rather than trying to assume positions. So no, I am not 100% certain or I wouldn't have asked the question.

[whichwayisup]

Right or wrong, the friendship will still remain in secret. This isn't just about you and him, it's about his marriage, his wife and how healthy a friendship outside his marriage is with a woman he had an affair with. I don't understand why you can't see this?

 

How can HE focus on fixing things at home, reconnecting with his wife, making love to her, being intimate on all levels if you are still in his life? How are you going to be able to get over your own intimate feelings for him if you still see/talk to him? How can you grieve and let go, have closure?

[Fallen Angel]

I have personally lost many important people in my life, and yes I would say more than the average person. My perception is different, I watched a core person take their last breath in front of me, and YES I do value friendship and love far more than most would do to that. I am not suggesting I am 100% clear on what my true objectives are, and I think I have been honest in reflecting that in my posts.

 

You are passing judgements on us here without having any clue what some of us have suffered. You seem to be insinuating that your suffering has been and continues to be much more than we can ever understand and thereby gives you a strength to endure that we have not.

 

I held my daughter in my arms as she took her last breath in this world. Does that make my suffering somehow superior and therefore my views on loss and love more valid than anyone else's? I think not.

 

Almost everyone here has suffered a great deal. Just because you do not agree with what they are saying does not mean you have to go on the attack and make others out to somehow be "less than" you.

 

I know you are hurting. And I personally am sorry for your pain and hope you work through it sooner rather than later. But please do not pass judgement on all of us, and we will not pass judgement on you.

[datura_noir]

Well, to answer the original question, I think: I would have abandoned my husband and bid farewell, if NC had been broken after he ended it. I gave him the dreaded ultimatum not long after dday and his "goodbye" trip with her (lasting 2 weeks). I told him that if he wanted to still talk to her, that was fine; I just wasn't going to stick around. So it came to that: He could have me and start to rebuild without leaning on her for support, or he could remain buddies with her (totally behind my back, of course) and I would move on, and then they could explore the potential of their relationship. He chose to end all communication with not only her, but her brother, who had been his closest friend for over 15 years.

 

I couldn't have dealt with any more communication between the two, especially knowing the stretched truths he told her about me. I am so glad he chose to give the friendship/history up to reconcile with me. I think I'm worth it.

[DNU1]

I am sorry you have had to go threw 3 DDays, I know I couldn't and can only imagine the strength it would take.

 

I am assuming you are still together, although that may be incorrect?

 

No, we are not together. DDay#1 was 15 years ago...we did MC, moved to another town, rebuilt our marriage. DDay #2 was day after Christmas 2008...tried to recover marriage, worked through marriagebuilders and IC/MC. Asked if there was any one else I needed to know about..she swore up and down there was nothing else.

 

Day#3 was May 2009...found out about affair with co-worker that happened two years ago...and she still worked with him. I handed her d-papers a few days later.

 

We are negotiating a settlement currently. Ddays suck arse, but divorcing my best friend, my soul mate, the love of my life, mother of my children...that was the hardest thing I have ever had to do in my LIFE! It sucks beyond all belief.

[someonesangel]

You are passing judgements on us here without having any clue what some of us have suffered. You seem to be insinuating that your suffering has been and continues to be much more than we can ever understand and thereby gives you a strength to endure that we have not.

 

I held my daughter in my arms as she took her last breath in this world. Does that make my suffering somehow superior and therefore my views on loss and love more valid than anyone else's? I think not.

 

Almost everyone here has suffered a great deal. Just because you do not agree with what they are saying does not mean you have to go on the attack and make others out to somehow be "less than" you.

 

I know you are hurting. And I personally am sorry for your pain and hope you work through it sooner rather than later. But please do not pass judgement on all of us, and we will not pass judgement on you.

 

FA

 

I was in no way passing judgement on you or anyone else. I Quoted a particular response and responded to THAT post and not only that said more than most ( meaning the world outside of LS as well). I was not posting a general "to all" so please don't insinuate I was, nor do I know your story as you do not know mine.

 

Regardless, I did respond to a very much " you are not hiding from us on LS" post that was negative in context and I responded directly to that.

 

 

Why is it, that people will quote ONE post in many while many others have said I have been given food for thought, have been given things to look at and have appreciated the feedback.

 

Talk about finding needles in haystacks.

[someonesangel]

No, we are not together. DDay#1 was 15 years ago...we did MC, moved to another town, rebuilt our marriage. DDay #2 was day after Christmas 2008...tried to recover marriage, worked through marriagebuilders and IC/MC. Asked if there was any one else I needed to know about..she swore up and down there was nothing else.

 

Day#3 was May 2009...found out about affair with co-worker that happened two years ago...and she still worked with him. I handed her d-papers a few days later.

 

We are negotiating a settlement currently. Ddays suck arse, but divorcing my best friend, my soul mate, the love of my life, mother of my children...that was the hardest thing I have ever had to do in my LIFE! It sucks beyond all belief.

 

I am so sorry.

 

I assume it was with a different Man, although I do agree with the BS when they say it isn't the affair that kills the marriage, it's the lies. As I have said, I would lose it if I thought I was in MC and IC and in recovery only to find out that under those "honesty" venues I was still being lied too.

 

Was she having an affair with the co-worker? or had and was done, I am just curious how you found out that far after if it was done - you certainly don't have to answer.

 

And for you, you simply have to have faith and find strength in your ability to see yourself as worthy, believe it or not that confidence and the pain will bring strength in yourself in the long run.

[Fallen Angel]

FA

 

I was in no way passing judgement on you or anyone else. I Quoted a particular response and responded to THAT post and not only that said more than most ( meaning the world outside of LS as well). I was not posting a general "to all" so please don't insinuate I was, nor do I know your story as you do not know mine.

 

Regardless, I did respond to a very much " you are not hiding from us on LS" post that was negative in context and I responded directly to that.

 

 

Why is it, that people will quote ONE post in many while many others have said I have been given food for thought, have been given things to look at and have appreciated the feedback.

 

Talk about finding needles in haystacks.

 

I responded to that because it felt to me that you were insinuating that because we (including the world outside of LS) had not suffered the losses you had, we could not understand with the same depth you do the pain of loss and love. That was how I read it, and it made me feel insulted. I am not going to apologize for responding to how it made me feel. I still feel that way after rereading it a few times. Whether that was your intention or not I don't know, but that is how I percieved it.

 

I have no reason to lie to anyone here, don't know you personally and certainly don't care if people believe me or not. I have personally lost many important people in my life, and yes I would say more than the average person. My perception is different, I watched a core person take their last breath in front of me, and YES I do value friendship and love far more than most would do to that. I am not suggesting I am 100% clear on what my true objectives are, and I think I have been honest in reflecting that in my posts..

 

I would venture to say that the average person values love and friendship just as much as you do, regardless of how great or small their losses in life. But that is just my opinion, for what it is worth.

[someonesangel]

I responded to that because it felt to me that you were insinuating that because we (including the world outside of LS) had not suffered the losses you had, we could not understand with the same depth you do the pain of loss and love. That was how I read it, and it made me feel insulted. I am not going to apologize for responding to how it made me feel. I still feel that way after rereading it a few times. Whether that was your intention or not I don't know, but that is how I percieved it.

 

I would venture to say that the average person values love and friendship just as much as you do, regardless of how great or small their losses in life. But that is just my opinion, for what it is worth.

 

 

FA

 

I don't want to argue with you, as I said you want to take one post and rip it apart, that is fine.

 

I apologize if you took it personal as it was not my intent.

[DNU1]

I am so sorry.

 

I assume it was with a different Man, although I do agree with the BS when they say it isn't the affair that kills the marriage, it's the lies. As I have said, I would lose it if I thought I was in MC and IC and in recovery only to find out that under those "honesty" venues I was still being lied too.

 

Was she having an affair with the co-worker? or had and was done, I am just curious how you found out that far after if it was done - you certainly don't have to answer.

 

And for you, you simply have to have faith and find strength in your ability to see yourself as worthy, believe it or not that confidence and the pain will bring strength in yourself in the long run.

 

 

Yes, a different man than DDay#2. For me it was combination of affairs and lies. I had enough. I knew what I had to do. It was very hard. Lots of tears, lots of gut wrenching anguish...lots of pain. Especially to see the look in my DDs eyes every night when I put them to bed.

 

Really the details aren't important now. I rarely frequent this and other boards now. These boards were a great source of strength and encouragement as I worked through DDays and divorce. Now the stories here just drag me back to the unpleasant memories, make me question times in our marriage. I don't want to do that any more. I want to remember the good times - and there were many in our years together. I want to move forward. I want to put this in the rear-view mirror, continue to heal, continue to move my life forward.

 

I want to continue to be the best Dad I can be. I want my STBx to continue to be the best Mom she can be. I want to continue to interact with her in a way that our DDs will remember and respect when they grow older and fully understand this divorce and what lead to it.

 

This isn't about me and her any more...it's about our children! Minimize the impact on them, do EVERYTHING i can to help them. Listen to them, answer their questions, be a great Dad, take care of them. That's all that matters now. It's all about the kiddos.

[tami-chan]

If WW continued contact just for One Second after D-day.....their would be no reconciliation because I would probably still be in jail.

 

Don't know how most of you reacted, but it was a WRATH....I scared myself.

 

I smashed phones, I broke windows, I burned clothes, I pissed on shoes.

I called OM and advised him that he would never look, talk, touch my WW ever. I hit a heavy bag for months, exercised to complete exhaustion and illness. Took traquilizers just to stay sane and still.

 

If WW was insane enough to maintain any contact, she would have moved out.

 

If I saw OM on D-day, he would not be alive and I would be in jail.

 

This is serious business here.

What I have described above sounds like a violent man...right?

 

I am a businessman who has ONE fight in my adult life.....who almost lost everything because of someone else's decision.

 

If you cheat, you are playing with death......quite simple.

 

Only if you do not value your life and if your life has zero meaning without that person. But why would anyone put that tremendous responsibility/burden on another person? Are you not the "captain of your own ship"?

[silktricks]

I never demanded NC.

 

I didn't discover anything, he told me about it. He told me he wanted to end it with her. I felt sorry for her. I purchased a gift for him to give her as a "going away" present. He asked that I be on the phone extension when he told her goodbye (she didn't know I was on the phone).

 

He insisted that he be completely transparent, and provided all email passwords, etc.

 

Had I found later that this was deception and he was maintaining contact we would no longer be together. I know, however, that he did not, as her whining continued emails were evidence of no contact.

 

If there would ever be any daliance with anyone else ever in the future (by either me or him) we would be through.

[Dexter Morgan]

I know that us kissing and playing crossed the line, but my question to you is if you found out they were in ANY contact (lets say just talking) would that be the deal breaker?

 

the deal breaker for me would have been BEFORE the NC...in other words, when you cheated to begin with.

 

And if you get the answer from some that your inability to go NC is NOT a deal breaker, does this mean you will keep on being involved thinking it isn't a deal breaker?

 

 

Or do you to some "degree" expect a length of time before you really expect NC to take place?

 

IF I were to stay with a cheater, I'd expect NC to happen IMMEDIATELY.

 

If someone has given YOU a 2nd chance, then you are pissing all over the forgiveness of your significant other and you are showing you didn't deserve that 2nd chance to begin with.

[Spark1111]

I would never minimize the pain you are going through. But if you truly wanted to be his friend, wouldn't a friend allow him to figure out his own confusion with regards to his marriage?

 

Wouldn't a friend encourage him to give 150% to either re-committing to a marriage or finding the strength to walk away from it?

 

And if that friend was his former affair partner, what would be the most selfless act she could do in this situation?

 

Total NC, IMHO.

 

That's why so many posters espouse the philosophy of NC here.

 

It does force a choice and an action on HIS part. It ends the confusion once and for all.

 

If friends don't let friends drive drunk, then for me, friends do not continue contact with a man who claims he wants to re-connect to the marriage when they were his former/current affair partner. Not now, now for a long time and maybe, not ever if he and his wife successfully reconcile.

 

And if they don't you will know it soon enough, and your friendship can reignite at that time.

[Dexter Morgan]

oooh. i think this is a good one. so lets say the BS has dday. finds out about the affair and demands NC. so what benefit is that? that youre forcing your H/W not to talk to a person? that doesnt mean the feelings end.

 

which is way I always advice dumping a cheater. seems too many think the BS should put up with this. Seems too many cheaters think they should have a time where they can stay in contact and ween themselves off the other person.

 

 

if i was in that position i would want my spouse not to feel that way about their AP.

 

of course YOU wouldn't.....because you are in the cheaters seat. if you had never cheated, and your spouse cheated, I highly doubt you'd be ok with him maintaining contact while you sat at home and took it.