silic0ntoad Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 This thread is giving me a headache. But I digress. Being a 27 year old male, I'd say... Appearance has a decent amount to do with who I am attracted to... But by appearance I also mean style, clothing, hair, etc... But I ain't gonna lie, I would date someone who was 33 and 120 over a 24 yr old who was 175. Link to post Share on other sites
soserious1 Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 (edited) SS1, As a 46 year old man with a 47 year old wife I am going to answer your question as best I can. First of all we need to break apart 2 different situations. One is a marriage that started in youth and proceeds to death. The second is a marriage that begins much later in life. For the first case, the commitment, shared life experiences and non-sexual love clearly keep many marriages whole until death ends them. If you look at the upper 10% of the males by assets in the US you find a majority of them stay married despite the fact that later in life they have the money to divorce and remarry a younger woman. ALL of these men would tell you that they are more sexually attracted to younger women from a purely visual standpoint. And most of them will also say they are sufficiently attracted to their wives to have a nice/good/great sex life until health/death gets in the way. The visual piece is a factor - but when you look at how these men actually behave, love, the desire for stability, shared memories etc. trumps raw youth most of the time. As for what I would do if I were single and had to choose from scratch. Age would be a factor, as would financial independence - I am in good shape but not so well off that I want to support a trophy wife who thinks her job is to look pretty and do lunch. And fitness - oh - back to that - fitness would be a big factor. I would pick a fit 47 year old over a fat 37 year old without hesitation. And what happens when the wrinkles triumph the power of "shared loved and experiences" and a man cannot get and keep an erection because the sight of his aging wife's face and body physically turns him off? What then? how does his wife convey to him the attitude of respect for his needs? You're 46.. imagine yourself suddenly single.. you can date a slim, fit 46 yr old who diets and exercises, dresses and grooms with care but has facial wrinkling and other physical imperfections that make her appear her stated age but you can also date a slim fit 36 yr old with smoother,wrinkle free skin and a tighter body. both women are educated to the same levels, have good jobs and zero other fiscal or famiyl encumbrances. If desiring a slim, fit body sexually is hardwired into us, and we are not to be considered "shallow" for this then so is the desire for a partner with other outward manifestations of youth and fertility. How are we by action and attitude supposed to convey respect towards our partners when we cannot provide the physical attributes needed for them to become physically aroused enough to be sexual with us? Edited December 3, 2009 by soserious1 Link to post Share on other sites
mem11363 Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 FO, I am going to put you on the spot since this is your thread after all. Do you have any fear that your husband would leave you due to the normal effects of aging? Do you fear he would refuse/not desire sex with you due to the normal effects of aging? Angie, I might go for the 37 year old. But widen the spread and it becomes a slam dunk. Give me the choice between a 30 year old or a 27 year old and a 47 year old and I pick the 47 year old hands down. A 10 year spread would be the outer edge of what I would even consider if I were single. But I plan to grow old/die with my one and only. Normal aging is normal aging - getting fat is getting fat. One is inevitable and expected. The other is a sign of disrespect. If you had a fit 37 year old and a 47 year old to pick from, who would you pick? There are plenty of fit 37 year olds out there, and the average 37 year old is going to be in better condition than the 47 year old. I'm not trying to be negative, I just think that soserious has many valid points that keep bieng discounted. Link to post Share on other sites
soserious1 Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 So what you're saying, then, is that EVERY man who gets married will eventually dump his wife for a younger model? I disagree. There are many, many marriages that become totally sexless due to what I'm talking about. He might not dump her but he certainly stops bedding her.. and not because he's cruel or "shallow" or heartless but rather because his sexual hard wiring dictates that a woman needs to have certain physical attributes in order for him to become sexually aroused enough to get and keep an erection till climax. Link to post Share on other sites
soserious1 Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 And you know this because you are IN those marriages? All of them? Or is this just what someone is feeding you? I suspect the latter, of course, in which case we ALL know people make stuff up. I know what I know based upon the same set of facts that you base your assertions on, my life experiences, my interactions with people I know and things that I read. It is pretty well accepted that men are hardwired to be physically attracted to women who display assets indicating that they are healthy enough to mate, to sustain a pregnancy and produce healthy offspring. Different people have differing levels of hard wiring, I respectfully submit that guys who's sexual preferences are really driven by their hard wiring are going to have trouble becoming aroused enough by the physical appearance of an aging wife to get and keep an erection from start to climax. Staying slim, exercising might well not be enough.. what then? Link to post Share on other sites
soserious1 Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 (edited) FO, I am going to put you on the spot since this is your thread after all. Do you have any fear that your husband would leave you due to the normal effects of aging? Do you fear he would refuse/not desire sex with you due to the normal effects of aging? Angie, I might go for the 37 year old. But widen the spread and it becomes a slam dunk. Give me the choice between a 30 year old or a 27 year old and a 47 year old and I pick the 47 year old hands down. A 10 year spread would be the outer edge of what I would even consider if I were single. But I plan to grow old/die with my one and only. Normal aging is normal aging - getting fat is getting fat. One is inevitable and expected. The other is a sign of disrespect. So... buried in all the pretty words is the nugget, the kernel of truth that given the choice between a 47 yr old and the 37 yr old.. all other things being equal, you'd go with the younger woman.The other age example you've listed have been pretty much ruled out based on your preferences to not end up with a trophy wife that will expect you to foot her bills. If we're going to be brutally honest regarding hard wiring and fat, why can't we be brutally honest about the rest of the hard wiring picture? We've discussed how a wife displays respect to her husband's desire for a slim, toned body by doing whatever it takes to keep herself slim, trim, toned, how is an aging wife supposed to display her respect for her husband's need for a youthful body and wrinkle free face, what actions and attitudes must the aging wife engage in to display proper respect to her man in this? Edited December 3, 2009 by soserious1 Link to post Share on other sites
GorillaTheater Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 Just for the record, SS, I'm 47 and my wife is 45. And I would happily bed her every chance I have. I love her wrinkles, her stretch marks (the badges of honor for the 8 kids she's given me over 26 years of marriage), and the sags and bags notwithstanding, because she's HOT. I'll take her over any other woman on the planet. And further for the record, I'm HOT too. Donna's seen my pic, maybe she'll back me up here. And I'm no prince. I'm not even very noble. I'm just a regular guy whose opinions on the subject are like most other guys my age. Link to post Share on other sites
soserious1 Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 Just for the record, SS, I'm 47 and my wife is 45. And I would happily bed her every chance I have. I love her wrinkles, her stretch marks (the badges of honor for the 8 kids she's given me over 26 years of marriage), and the sags and bags notwithstanding, because she's HOT. I'll take her over any other woman on the planet. And further for the record, I'm HOT too. Donna's seen my pic, maybe she'll back me up here. And I'm no prince. I'm not even very noble. I'm just a regular guy whose opinions on the subject are like most other guys my age. Taking your wife out of the picture.. you are suddenly single and faced with 2 prospects for a new relationship. Both women are slim and active. both educated with decent careers one is 10 years older than the other and looks it facially. On a purely physically level, all other factors being equal who are you likely to call 1st? Link to post Share on other sites
GorillaTheater Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 Taking your wife out of the picture.. you are suddenly single and faced with 2 prospects for a new relationship. Both women are slim and active. both educated with decent careers one is 10 years older than the other and looks it facially. On a purely physically level, all other factors being equal who are you likely to call 1st? Straight up? All other factors being equal, the one closest to my age. That kind of common ground, common experiences, counts for alot with me. Link to post Share on other sites
SimplyBeingLoved Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 Soserious... Rather than complain about it... save up and get plastic surgery. If you're convinced that wrinkles and age spots are preventing you from finding the guy you want... that is the logical step for you to take. Link to post Share on other sites
mem11363 Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 I henceforth dub you: relentlesslySeriousNayGrim SS1, I will turn the lights off - and remember her when she was younger. If needed I will pop a viagra. If she elects plastic surgery I won't argue though the truth is I have actively - gently - discourage any/all plastic surgery ideas she has had to date. I say that if it were up to me she should not but it is her body. So far she has done nothing..... I truly hope to have a massive coronary or equally severe life ending stroke before I suffer from dementia or chronic age related impotence. Failing that SS1, I will pay you to chat/talk to me on the telephone about your view of men, marriage and sex so that I quickly lose the will to live and die from an acute overdose of depressing dialogue. :) I know what I know based upon the same set of facts that you base your assertions on, my life experiences, my interactions with people I know and things that I read. It is pretty well accepted that men are hardwired to be physically attracted to women who display assets indicating that they are healthy enough to mate, to sustain a pregnancy and produce healthy offspring. Different people have differing levels of hard wiring, I respectfully submit that guys who's sexual preferences are really driven by their hard wiring are going to have trouble becoming aroused enough by the physical appearance of an aging wife to get and keep an erection from start to climax. Staying slim, exercising might well not be enough.. what then? Link to post Share on other sites
WalkInThePark Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 Straight up? All other factors being equal, the one closest to my age. That kind of common ground, common experiences, counts for alot with me. Héhé, that is good to hear. Because based on my experiences with dating sites, I get the feeling that a lot of men my age (I'm 45) absolutely want a woman at least 5 years younger than themselves. And the problem is that on a datingsite searches are done on the basis of a number of parameters and I don't want to lie about my age. BTW, I am slim and fit and people often don't believe me when I say my age (not that I care, I'd rather look good than young). I have always preferred men my age. At 45, I'd say somewhere between 41 and 52. I like the fact of having grown up in the same era and being at the same place in life. A guy 10 to 15 years older than myself would already been thinking about his retirement. Well, I keep hoping that I will meet someone my age who has no problem with a woman his age. Link to post Share on other sites
WalkInThePark Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 Actually it's not "self-pity" it's a realistic assessment of what out there on the market. I'm not interested in divorced men who are still saddled with child support obligations and who are actively co-parenting children, right there that knocks out a huge group of men. I'm also interested in finding men who are similar to me in educational background/ profession .. that knocks out another huge chunk of options from the dating pool. Finally, I'm hoping to find someone who, like me has no pre-existing medical problems. I take exactly zero medication have nice low blood pressure, low cholesterol exercise regularly and enjoy an active life style. I would not make such a dealbreaker of the fact that someone has child support obligations and/or is co-parenting. That's not something I would mind, maybe because I don't have children myself. So for me it would be something enriching. You know, if there is one asset we women in our forties have over younger women, it is that we normally do not want to have kids anymore. Believe me, a lot of men who already have kids, do NOT want to have anymore of them. And that is a problem they have with women in their thirties. Either they never have had kids and definitely want them. Or either they still have the wish to have more of them. Link to post Share on other sites
JamesM Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 This thread is not about younger men and older women or vice versa. It is not about anything but how the OP and her husband have problems in the bedroom because of allegedly her weight gain. My concern is...if posters ignore this fact, then Tony will shut the thread down. And I find that unfair to the F_O. It is her thread. Even if she doesn't return immediately, then she may want to give an update later. I am guessing that some great conversations are being held about other aspects of men, women, and relationships. These would be great thread starters. Back to the original post.... Frustrated_One, are you still reading this and do you have an update? Or have you abandoned your thread due to the detour it took? Link to post Share on other sites
mem11363 Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 Not being in the dating pool for 21 years - and not having any plans to be I never even considered that. NO WAY IN THE WORLD would I have more kids with someone. Once that is factored in all else becomes moot. I would run away from any situation where more kids MIGHT even be considered. I would not make such a dealbreaker of the fact that someone has child support obligations and/or is co-parenting. That's not something I would mind, maybe because I don't have children myself. So for me it would be something enriching. You know, if there is one asset we women in our forties have over younger women, it is that we normally do not want to have kids anymore. Believe me, a lot of men who already have kids, do NOT want to have anymore of them. And that is a problem they have with women in their thirties. Either they never have had kids and definitely want them. Or either they still have the wish to have more of them. Link to post Share on other sites
WalkInThePark Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 This thread is not about younger men and older women or vice versa. It is not about anything but how the OP and her husband have problems in the bedroom because of allegedly her weight gain. My concern is...if posters ignore this fact, then Tony will shut the thread down. And I find that unfair to the F_O. It is her thread. Even if she doesn't return immediately, then she may want to give an update later. I am guessing that some great conversations are being held about other aspects of men, women, and relationships. These would be great thread starters. Back to the original post.... Frustrated_One, are you still reading this and do you have an update? Or have you abandoned your thread due to the detour it took? You are right, the discussion is no longer related to FO's question. In answer to the initial post, I think that one of the things which is important in a relationship, is taking the wishes of the partner into account. That is if these wishes are "normal" of course. If your partner would ask you to undergo plastic surgery, that would be something completely different. If it is important for your partner that you stay fit, then I think you should try as much as possible to do an effort for that. We all age but we should do an effort to still remain as much as possible the person our partner was first attracted to. I personally do not like chubby guys. For me a guy needs to have something "sharp" about him. So if I would start a relationship with someone has that sharpness about him and 3 years later he has gained 20 kgs, it would seriously affect my attraction to him. Link to post Share on other sites
angie2443 Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 I henceforth dub you: relentlesslySeriousNayGrim LOL! That's one of the funniest things I've heard in a lont time. Link to post Share on other sites
soserious1 Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 FO and others, it was not my intent to derail your thread but rather to look at other aspects of physical appearance and how a woman should act and respond to be sure she is honoring and meeting her husband's needs in this regard. I wish you nothing but the best and hope the new year finds you half the woman you used to be:) Link to post Share on other sites
alimayrose Posted December 5, 2009 Share Posted December 5, 2009 Response to the quote below: He is either into pornography- a serious and dangerous addiction, or he has low labido from a chemical or hormonal imbalance. Get him to the Doctor or 12-step program. Or choose to do nothing. Of course, it is your choice. Pandora, I have had several surgeries on my feet - 5 different procedures. Since those, I have pain when on the treadmill which was my primary mode of cardio. And IT'S ME who wants sex - him who doesn't. I have to guilt him into it. I'm the one who wants sex, he's the one who doesn't. Before we were married, he had been in a previous relationship for 10 years to a woman who was thin. He told me that they did not have sex much. He said he was not a very sexual person. I told him that was hard to believe since we had sex all the time. Now I wonder about this. She did not have a weight problem and they did not have much sex. I told him last Christmas that what I wanted as my gift was to have sex at least 4 times a month. That is NOT a lot, but it hasn't happened. Pandora, I suppose depression could be a part of it. The economy has taken a toll on my business. I don't feel motivated about anything. Link to post Share on other sites
alimayrose Posted December 5, 2009 Share Posted December 5, 2009 (edited) I noticed you said you eat emotionally. This has to begin from the inside-out. I'll bet that since you've been married things from the past would pop up here and there- maybe he reminded you of a relative when you argue, etc. The weight will not come off until you deal with a lot of these subconscious issues. Biologically, men are visually stimulated, and I'll bet your husband felt very hurt that you let yourself go- this may be very hard to understand from a female perspective. Men need sexuality- in loving relationships it is a way for them to express love to their partner and feel he can take care of her. If the visual stimulation is taken away, he will realize he is with you in bed, but he honestly can not see the true beautiful body you obtain-the real you-which he needs to be turned on. This may hurt to hear, and I am sorry for that. But do not use the excuse that you are beautiful the way you are when you are not healthy- because not only is something going on with you physically, but inside you feel less beautiful- this is because your whole self has changed. This is not necessarily bad. I say this because this means things have come up that you are now ready to deal with. This is an opportunity for you to grow and overcome more than you were able to before! That is a good sign! In a sense of natural survival, men are able to produce sperm throughout a lifetime, where women need to stay young and fit to produce children and live through the birthing process. This is literally programmed into the brain. This is connected to sexual selection, what turns men on or off in women. Men don't understand why, they just know what they've been given! But remember, the way you have treated yourself physically is only a reflection of something major that has changed internally, and I guarantee he notices that internal change, which has probably affected him in some way. Trust me when I say he is most-likely not using sex as a weapon. Or if he finally is it is because he feels rejected. You guys can work this out. I know it hurts for you too. He needs to be visually stimulated- he needs that loving act from his wife. But for now start from the beginning. Since the outside is inevitably connected to the inside of you, I have a suggestion. Here is a book for you to check out by Luise L. Hay: You Can Heal Your Life. Do this for YOU. You know more about your personal problems so get online and google some books on your personal issues- YOURS, not your husbands- and see what you are led to. The things that really catch your eye are the ones you should pay attention to. You can also do this at your local library. Its very quite interesting what you can discover about yourself. If you find yourself needing therapy, then that is what you need, so accept it and do it! Good Luck to you on your Journey! I've only been married for four years and in that time I've gained 50 lbs. I have not had kids in that time. I have had a few surgeries that have helped contribute to the weight gain. I'm 5'2" and now weight 183. I'm a size 16/18. I am 44 years old. When I first got together with my husband, I was a size 4/6 and weighed around 135ish. Even at that weight I felt like I did not look good in a bathing suit and I wanted to lose more weight (to be around 115ish). Not sure that was realistic since I hadn't been that weight since high school. I had told him I had lost weight, so I never hid that from him. When we were first together I was motivated to work out - you know how it is, the flush of love, not being able to eat, always thinking of that person and how you are just kinda of obsessed. He had lost 40 pounds a year or two earlier and was working out. Our new relationship really motivated him. Today, he might be 15 lbs heavier but he's still a small guy. Two years ago when my weight got up to about 155 lbs, I noticed our sex life was diminishing. I wanted to talk to him about it but I get so emotional and cry and I don't think that's fair to him. So I sent him an email about it. He admitted that my weight gain was turning him off. I wanted him to be truthful but of course, it hurt. What is really hurtful is that before my husband there were lots of guys who just wanted me because of my looks. I thought my husband was different. That was a big part of what attracted me to him. He loved that I was smart, that I could talk about anything from sports to politics. He loved that we shared many of the same values. He loved my sense of humor and how I could "battle" him. When we were first together I would work out with him but I hated it. I hated having to get up early in the morning to work out. I work from home and make my own hours. One of the benefits I wanted from working from home was no more getting up at 6am. Fast forward to today . . . I'm now at 183ish. I've gained even more weight and now pretty much don't have sex with him unless I guilt him into it. I am miserable. I snore now which keeps him up - so we sleep in seperate bedrooms. We have no kids. My time is my own. He will support me - buy gym memberships, coaching sessions, etc. We have a complete professional home gym in our basement. I have no excuse except I am so hurt and bitter. This was the guy who I thought was different from all the other guys and what I have found out is that he wasn't different. I feel like he lied to me. Of course, he feels like I've done a "bait and switch" - that I don't care anymore. I feel like he has me backed into a corner and I am defensive and hurt. I don't know why I can't/won't get motivated to lose the weight. I am not happy - I loved being a smaller size. I have lost weight before but now I feel like he is using sex as a weapon. "Lose weight or no sex." When we were first married my husband was a food natzi - really strict about not eating any junk food. Again, that was fine for a while - I would have fast food while I was out during the day. I think that's how I found a bit of control in my life. Over the years, he has mellowed a bit but I know I often eat emotionally, rather than because of hunger. I have tried taking Meridian, but even that I didn't do regularly. I would say that I am in a happy marriage other than what I have written. I love my husband but I am not feeling loved. I feel like my only value is as a trophy wife. He's told me that I would be a better wife if I weighed less. That just blows my mind! I am the same person inside whether at a size 18 or 4 but he says I'd be a better wife if my jean size was smaller. I fear that even if I do buckle down and lose weight that I will be very, very bitter and angry with him. Like if I get down to a size 10 and now he wants to have sex I will be like, "FU!" I don't want to be that way but am finding that mental adjustment difficult. Edited December 5, 2009 by alimayrose typo's Link to post Share on other sites
HeyThere Posted January 2, 2010 Share Posted January 2, 2010 Dear frustrated one, Over a month has gone by. Tell us how you are, what is going on in your life? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- “No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.” -- Eleanor Roosevelt Link to post Share on other sites
hollywood undead Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 OP: You better get used to the fact that 99 % of men are shallow and primarily concerned with looks, t & a. Maybe you should give him a taste of his own medicine: next time he implies that he's not attracted to you because of your weight, tell him you're not interested in sex with him either until he has a seven figure income in his bank account. Link to post Share on other sites
imresponsible Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 It was difficult to read about this experience when it seems like the husband has been charged with your anger and pain. Part of the maturation process means reconciling that things such as attraction and feelings are dynamic; they are subject to change. I've heard so many women during the course of my life who are angry with their partners because they see them as they really are. Being overweight is usually not attractive and it's obvious. The 'pretty faces' I've seen on women who are overweight are great to look at (for a man, I guess) but husbands aren't physically attracted to just a pretty face. The majority of what initially attracts people are physical attributes; very rarely have I found a man who is initially attracted to my mind or the 'possibilities' of who I may be inside. Looks provide incentive for further exploration. That is the nature of the beast. So to be upset with someone that their feelings have changed, something no one has control over, is pointless. You cannot control how you feel, only what you do as a result of what you feel. This anger seems a bit misplaced. Why do we act as though fat 'happened' to us? One must literally, slowly eat their way to 20-30-40-50-100 pounds overweight. Anytime during that process they can acknowledge clothes that don't fit, discomfort, etc. I believe hanging onto resentment as a barrier to embracing his feelings is what prevents you from owning your problem as a simple matter of eating more food than you can quickly metabolize, lack of exercise to balance this activity and resentment that chokes your compassion for a man that is just as disappointed as you are. He has a right to what you advertised when you married him, or at least something similar. You seem upset that he doesn't want to buy what you're selling now. That said, no one looks amazing for ever but it's unrealistic to expect to be treated like you are hot if you don't even care enough lose the weight for yourself. Sex is not about duty it's about desire. If you want to be desired, you need to be desirable to that person. If you really want that, work for it. Link to post Share on other sites
Tiny220 Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 Sorry, I can't sit here and read 40+ pages, But,, if your husband love YOU,, weight wouldn't matter,, my wife has gained more than you,, I still find her very beautiful. (physically) Now, if your weight bothers YOU,, do something about it. TRUST me, I know it is easier said than done. Since 2006, I have had two shoulder surgeries, (same shoulder) went through 3 YEARS or PT for it, 2 surgeries one on each foot to have bone spurs removed, knee surgery for a torn meniscus, and had to deal with PTSD for an incident where a guy committed suicied by jumping in front of my work truck. I gained 60-70 lbs during that time. I am 6'3" and went to 311lbs. I have battled weight my whole life, and seeing the 300s drove me to drastic measures. (more for my wife and girls) I had gastric bypass last August, and have dropped almost 100 lbs. Now, any weightloss surgery is MAJOR surgery,, it is not a magic bullet, but is a very effective tool. With RNY gastric bypass, the section of the stomach that controls hunger is isolated, so I never get hungry, I do get cravings, but those can be controlled. If you ever consider it, do a lot of research. If your weight doesn't control you,, it is your husbands problem. T Link to post Share on other sites
caplrwasel Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 Hi.. I am sorry but that is the problem and you should go through it and concern to the specialist... Link to post Share on other sites
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