What are my chances?

[Grace]

Kanuk,

 

Please believe me when I tell you the stuff you gave her is not in a box tucked away somewhere. Like I said, I still think about my ex, but I would only never get back with him mainly because he wouldn't quit bothering me and showed me little respect. But I do still also remember the good times. Even during the time he was stalking me, he sent me the most beautiful poems he wrote. To this day, I have them tucked in a special box and I read them on occasion. This hating you thing she may have for you isn't going to last forever...she knows you well enough to know that you only acted out of pain. In time, she'll forgive and let it go. She also will miss you, unless she's inhuman. I'm telling you, time will tell. You just need to be patient and focus on your career.

 

It also doesn't matter what her friends or mother or anyone thinks of you because when it comes to love, there is no logic. If your mother or friends told you to stop loving this girl because she was horrible...would you? No one listens to anyone when it comes to the heart, so that is something that's not even an issue and not worth over analyzing. What is for you, cannot be unfor you. If it's supposed to be, it will be.

 

Coming from a girl who was once in your ex-girlfriends shoes. Now that you've backed off, I'm sure she'll miss you and may even question at one point if she did the right thing. I'm not trying to give you false hope, but that's exactly how I felt when I had told me ex to leave me alone...and he finally did. Don't call or contact her on x-mas. If you don't it will hit her and she'll finally know that you're agreeing to the backing off and moving on thing. It will probably even turn her on. I'm telling you, she's probably sitting there expecting you to call and telling her friends and mom the same thing. When she doesn't get the call or email from you...it will surprise her and most likely even upset her. It's a good thing. At least it will get her thinking finally. Don't be surprised if you end up getting a call or email shortly thereafter. If you do, you'll have to stick to your guns and still backoff. She's the one that left, she's going to have to chase you.

[Kanuk]

I'd love to think you're right, but i'm still here with all of this "she thinks i'm crazy" things to make me doubt he even thinks of me. I mean, jeeze, she skiped work and stayed away from home to avoid me at all costs. To me, that's very big deal and a very bad thing.

 

And to top it all off, now I'm hearing stories that are bothering me. You never want to hear what your girlfriend was like before you met her... sexually, but you do anyways. Now I'm hearing stories that she was the kind of girl that liked the guys attention. That she went from guy to guy befroe maybe to make up for her dad not ebing around ,to get attention. Whenever i asked her how many guys she was with or dated etc, i always got the same number or storey, so i believed her. And I supposed I should still believe her now because i have no reason to not trust her, expect the treatment i'm receiving now.

 

I knew she wasn't a virgin when i met her, and i wasn't when i met her either, so it didn't bother me. but she never loved anyone, as she said, so that means she just had random sex or whatever, only with 2 guys, but it still got to me a little. And that makes me wonder now if she's out there just having random sex again. If she only started loving, only changed her ways when she met me, i was just a blip of a phase in her life and now she's gone back to her old self again, not loving, not feeling, not caring. Like some sort of mental self defense mechanism.

 

I know it shouldn't matter to me, cause she was who she was when she was with me. Not that person from before. She loved me and was always faithful. Who she was before dosn't matter, she's not with me now, so who and what she does now is none of my business. But the mere thought of it seems to be tearing me up inside and I don't know why. By rights it shouldn't bother me.

 

I was just told about a time my ex and her friends were at a bar (whilst we were dating seriously) and i wasn't there. Apparently some guy came up to her and wanted to buy her a drink and she let him. It's not like they were dancing or groping or making out, and to the best of my knowlege she just took the drink and that was the end of it. I knew of other times this happened, cause she told me. It seems to be bothering me that i never heard of this. Not like it's a major deal, she got free alcohol... good for her. But I heard it last night, and it's really bothering me. If she didn't tell me about that, what else didn't she tell me about? Liek i said, i knew she was always faithful, but now...

 

Now i have this horribel image in my head of my ex, this women i love and adore.... being a slut. But i still love her... and i still want her back... BUt she wants a guy that's not totally dependant on her, who can get by without her. That's what everyone tells me, but look at me. It's obvous I'm not tha guy, i need her back, and i'm a wreck without her. I think. I feel, almost, as if I'm pathetic and she sees that too.

[sarah12]

Now i have this horribel image in my head of my ex, this women i love and adore.... being a slut. But i still love her... and i still want her back...

 

woah woah, slow down there. First of all, she's not a slut because she slept with two guys before meeting you and accepted a drink once without telling you! I've been following your thread, and all I can say is that you have to take Grace's advice and just back away now! You have to pull yourself together. You are now assuming all kinds of things and are convincing yourself of them. You have to stop that. It isn't healthy. I know you can't stop thinking about her, but you really really have to TRY. Go out with friends, and try and not ask about her when you do go out. Try not to overanalyze everything. You know what you had, and just leave it at that. She loved you when she was with you, and that is all you need to know. You said it yourself, so you just have to keep telling yourself that. If you don't want to feel pathetic and you don't want her to see you that way, then you have to start showing it! Start over, get yourself together! I really hate seeing you down all the time about this - you remind me of my ex - it has been over 8 months since I broke up with him, and I don't want you to turn out like him - so start putting a smile on your face and get out there!

[Kanuk]

No no, i'm not saying i think she's a slut. As a matter of fact, when i heard how few guys she'd been with i was happy cause I knew she wasn't exactly that. The cirsumstances, however, of her encounters were what bothered me. Like I said, she said she was never in love before me, and thought she was incapable of love. So it kind of bothered me a 'little' that she could just go out and 'screw' a guy cause she wanted to without feeling something for them. But like I said, that was who she was before i knew her, and not the women i love. It just worries me a little that maybe that is the women she really is, and the women i loved disapeared when she broke it off with me. Which is somehow worse, because it would mean that it is my fault, because of what I did to her.

 

But because of what someone has told me recently, it's got this image stuck in my head. And I know the person it came from is a very questionable source that is using part of what she's heard of her mixed with her own assumptions. And I should by rights, hold no stock in it at all and see it as a complete lie. But like i said, i think there's something wrong with me, because now the thought is in my head and it's bugging the hell out of me (even though i was told less than 24 hours ago). Even though I know it's robably a bald face lie just to get me to hate her so i can get over her easier.

 

I know who she was with me, i know how much she loved me and that she was faithful. That's all i should need to know. But for some reason the thought she's out there with guys right now bugs me to no end. Probably cause of my own insecurities. Maybe all dumped guys think liek that, maybe i have a problem. I don't know. I'd like to think i treated her well and that I'm worth coming back to, but somehow i don't see it. I think "why am I so special, how was i so lucky to get her, what do i have that other guys don't? She was absolutly incredibe and I was the luckiest guy to get her, but me... I'm just your average person."

 

If she was with me, I keep thinking it was only cause i was really lucky, and that there were lots of other guys out there who had a whole lot more to offer than I did. That she wont meet somone and think "geeze, what i had with my ex was so much better than this, i think I should go back to him". Instead she's thinking "Man, what was i doing with that guy fo so long?" But then again, that's just my insecurities.

 

I am backing away, and have backed away physically etc. there's no contact, i don't ask my friends what she's up to etc. I never really did the later anywho. Unfortuantly, i don't have the hang of this backing off mentally thing. And it worries me probably more that it worries you, sarah, that I've already turned into your ex, in my ex's eyes at least. I don't want to be seen that way, i don't want anyone to think of me that way. I want her to see me for the guy that loved her more than anything in the world and would do anything for her. I want her to love me like she said she used to. I know that'll likely never happen again. But i most certainly do not want to be seen as the psycho, stalker ex boyfriend that just wouldn't stop. But i also think it's too late for that, that she already thinks that way. Why else would she skip work and stay at a friends house for 2 days?

[sarah12]

I have done my best to avoid my ex as well, but it is because it has been 8 months and he still tries to track me down. In the beginning though, I avoided him for HIS own good. I knew that if he saw me, it would make things worse for HIM because I knew he was probably TRYING to get over me, but by seeing me, it would just set him back. This could be the same reason your ex avoided you as well. I really wanted him to get over me, and I think the only way to do that is for him to not see me.

[Grace]

First off (no offense) but it's none of your business how many guys she was with before you. Let's say she did sleep with 10 men, it's still none of your business. It's her life and it was before you. I'm sick and tired of this stupid double standard. All you need to know is that she was faithful when she was with you.

 

As for excepting drinks from strange guys...having a boyfriend or not, if a guy wants to buy me a drink that's his perogative. I'll accept because he's being nice, but it doesn't mean I have to do anything more with him than thank him. If he's a nice guy, I'll talk to him, let him know I have a boyfriend, and that's the end of it. You really need to chill out.

 

It sounds to me like your worst enemy right now is your own mind. You keep conjuring up stuff to hurt yourself. Why are you doing that? Why are you imagining her sleeping with 20 guys (worst scenario), yet you're not imagining her wanting to take time alone from any relationship (best scenario)? Why don't you just stop imagining anything. You're not psychic...you're paranoid and out of control of a situation and it's killing you. Your mind right now isn't the best source to ask "What do you think she's doing or feeling?" Everytime you imagine her doing something, you need to stop yourself and say "OK, I really don't know what's she's doing or thinking and the only thing I do know is what's going on in my mind." That's all you have to work with, so focus on what you're feeling. You're hurt, you're upset, you miss her, you're not ready to date anyone new yet. That's all facts. As for her mind, you haven't got a clue. Because your mind isn't thinking clearly right now, stop listening to it. Stop trying to sumise and draw conclusions from her past behavior. Just because you two broke up, doesn't mean she wants to sleep with every guy that walks down the street. Take a deep breath and give your mind a break from all this stuff.

[mandarincool]

We can't read their minds, even sometimes when we're together in the same room, but certainly not when we're apart. Especially if it was only a short relationship and we were only in the midst of getting to know eachother.

 

That having been said, we long for ongoing cosmic communication. And sometimes those who are more intuitive and open "psychically" do pick up on things. But the only way to know is to ask, and the only way to ask is to reestablish contact. And we really have to ask ourselves first: is it a good idea to make contact at this particular time?

 

I was "dumped" after four months and never could read his mind. That was part of the problem. The break seemed to be difficult for him, and certainly was for me. I begged for a bit and then communicated that I understood and would be ok and hoped he'd be feeling better as he was quite depressed. Part of his giving up on us had to do with my impatience with his depression and emotional withdrawal so early on in the relationship. Anyway, through contemplation and reading, etc., I'm seeing that literally, space is what is needed. Not just to mend a longed for relationship, but for moving on.

 

What I'm saying is that whether the outcome will be reconcilliation and a second chance, or moving on gracefully either as friends or not, giving space to ones self and to the other person is the correct action.

 

Feeling angry and frustrated, not listened to, rejected, these are the feelings we are coping with. Abandonment, sadness, grief and anger. Humiliation. Well, the most important thing is reestablishing dignity and a feeling of wholeness- like I said before: in order to "get them back" or to move on with grace.

 

I'm trying to take space to heal and to forgive and to get through my anger and hurt. And I'm contemplating what it means to me to "allow" the other person his space. Absurd really, because it's not for me to allow or not allow. Yet I operate as though I decide: you can have space, you can't have space. You "taking" space makes me feel.... It is not real. I am now thinking I will be able to have a happy relationship once I can understand and negotiate this whole thing more comfortably.

 

If I'd not swarmed him with my self, my need, my anxiety, he'd have felt more space and stayed put. That would not necessariy have guaranteed the relationship would have been what I was looking for, as he has some issues, too, but it would have allowed us to continue getting to know eachother...

 

I'm looking forward either to a continued conversation with him, even a reconcilliation, or a peaceful resolution within myself to being broken up. It will take time, as I am a very intense and emotional person, and I miss him right now. I'm going to give myself some time and space, too. And I know that no matter what, it will all shake out in the end

[Kanuk]

I know it's none of mty business Grace. I think i tried to convey that. And I think i tried to say that while we were dating, it wasn't even an issue, it didn't bother me in the slightest cause I knew she was with me and that no matter what happened whereever she went, she was coming home to me.

 

But for some reason, now my mind, like you say, is bing my enemy. Something that never mattered to me before, something that was of no or little concequesnce now seems to be a huge issue, and i haven't even been thinking about it for 24 hours. Perhaps the feeling will pass as quickly as it came on and I'll be as fine as i was before.

 

It's not a double standard, like i said, i was no virgin before i met her, but i'd only been with 1 women, and it was out of love. The fact that she was with outher guys didn't matter at all. In this day and age it's expected even. It was just that she didn't love the guys, she just slept with them, likea it was a recreational thing. I don't know what to think of it, but that was the only thing that irked me, and even then, it didn't really matter at all, more of a passing 'well, isn't that neat?' thought.

 

But as i said, it's bothering me right now, not so much NOW as it was last night and this morning. probablyc ause of the dreams it made me have. The personw ho told it to me was probably lieing anyways. My ex wasn't that type of person, at least not when she was with me, and that's all that matters, not who she was before she was with me.

 

I just hope she hasn't gone back to that, because that would severly decrease my chances of getting her back. But then again, what do I know? I'm trying to let it go, liek everyone tells me. And it's working.. a little tiny bit, but for 2 months i might as well of made no progress at all.

 

And if she avoided me 'for my own good' like you suggest Sarah, then there is no hope of getting her back. She wants me to be over her and on with life. I wish she would just tell me. If she told me herself there was no hope of a future reconciliation, i wouldn't be here, wondering what will be. I think my overactive imagination and lack of moving on as well as i should is due solely to her not even telling me she broke up with me, not giving a reason or anything.

[sarah12]

I think my overactive imagination and lack of moving on as well as i should is due solely to her not even telling me she broke up with me, not giving a reason or anything.

 

I think so too. I know what that feels like. When there's no closure, it makes you dream up things and imagine what the closure is. Well, we just have to try our best to move on..

 

In my situation (not with the ex that I mentioned before), I've been pretending like the guy is just a friend and even though he hasn't given me answers, I try to move on. It's hard..I get nervous talking to him, but pretending like he's just another person makes it easier. I have basically been trying to play it cool on the outside, when really, I have dug a hole in my heart inside.

[Kanuk]

Yeah, at least you can talk to the person I suppose. I don't even have that. She hasn't voluntarily said a word to me in 2 months, almost 9 weeks now. She says she'll talk to me when SHE'S ready.

 

Lord knows WHEN that will be IF it even happens at all. I've been wishing and praying that she'll hava the heart to at least call on christmas, but I'm not holding my breath. If she doesn't call, does it really mean anything? Should I just give u pall hope together?

[mr_roggger]

She's expecting you to call Christmass I bet. don't call. Respect for you will grow inside her, and you may well get a call before New Years, but don't get your hopes up!

[Kanuk]

I snet an e-mail to a fired of mine who wtill lives in the same city as her. I asked him what I shoul think of her skipping out on work that day that I wrote my exam and staying at a friends house to avoid me. this is what i got in response

 

"

Heather asked me to let her know when you'd be coming down for your exam

because she didn't want to see you. She knew that you'd want to talk but

she wasn't ready. As far as I knew she was at work that night until you

told me. You have this way of making people feel guilty for doing things

that they shouldn't feel guilty for, Heather knows this and i think she's

afraid that if she talks to you you will make her feel guilty for ending the

relationship. She doesn't need that now, it's hard enough to end a

relationship without the other person making you feel guilty for it. If

Heather doesn't feel that your relationship is good anymore then that's her

choice. You've said your piece through e-mail, letters and Stef and I and

Heather hasn't changed her mind. You have to accept that. I'm sorry if it

hurts Jason but people break up. It's a natural part of dating.

 

I hope that's enough of an opinion for you.

"

 

I guess she's gone for good. I think I'm going to crawl into a hole and die.

[sarah12]

You will not crawl into a hole and die. You know, I'm beginning to think that there's no point to us replying to you here if you don't take our advice!! You remind me of my roommate who aalways asks for advice and we spend hours talking to her about her problems and she never takes it! You're starting to make me just as upset!! It's Christmas Eve and I hate seeing you like this! Pull yourself together. You are not going to die. But you are going to look back on this thread a few months from now and think "what was I thinking? I should have been out meeting new people and having fun instead of moping around on Christmas eve!!!"

 

You have your answers now, you know that she really was not ready to face you, and I believe it is because she does not want to talk to you until she knows that you are calm and will not make her feel guilty. Now go and have yourself a merry christmas.

[Kanuk]

No, i didn't mean literally i want to crawl into a hole and die. I just ment that I felt really bad that I had the final answer and it wasn't good.

 

I knew this day would come, i hoped it wouldn't eb this way, and I hoped that it would come from her, not thru someone else like everything else i've foudn out in the last 2 months. I knew it was ovr, and i was almost positive from day one that there was no chance of reconciliation. I just wanted the truth, the answers from HER. I still don't know why, but i have to live with that.

 

And believe me, cause no one i talk to seems to, i take all advice to heart, and I try to move on. I was just out with my friends last night. I go to the gym all the time and play hockey and keep myself as busy as humanly posible. I start school again on the 5th of January. I guess i just complain too much, so it seems like i'm not listening to anyone.

 

Sorry to upset other people, it seems to be a habbit lately, I'm trying though. And thanks for the advice. If anyone can see the silver lineing to this cloud then let me know. I'm pretty sure there's isn't one (for the relationship at least) but at least I've got almost everything i wanted to know.

 

Thanks guys.

[sarah12]

Sorry if I sounded a bit upset! I just want to see you happy instead of moping..keep seeing your friends and going to the gym..the time will pass and before you know it, a day will go by without you even thinking of her..

 

On a different note, I notice you said you go to school and you are from southwestern ontario..I'm also a fellow canuck and I go to school here as well..where are you at?

[Kanuk]

I used to go to the University of Windsor. i did 3.5 of my 4 years of mechanial engineering there. but due to their wierd way of schedualign courses i just transfered to UWO inlondon to finihs up my last 4 months.

This way I end up graduating 4 months earlier than if i staye in Windsor. this is why i'm 200 km away from my ex. We met when i went to school there. It seems our relationship fell apart as soon as i moved to London again (I'm origoanlly from the London Area)

 

Where abouts are you?

[Kanuk]

Well, i wasn't expecting anything, but i was hoping beyond all hope.

 

But just as i thought, no call, no e-mail no icq message.

 

nothing. this girld obviosuly doesn't want anythign to do with me. I'm not sure why i held on to hope for so long.

[michiganmale27]

Kanuk,

 

things happen for a reason. I have a 95 year old grandmother, that when what I thought at the time was the girl of my dreams and potential Mrs. dumped me in April noticed I was extremely devastated.

 

She said to me in her southern accent, and this is not to be offensive to any women out there because the same is true for us guys,

 

"women are like a subway train, the next one is 10 minutes away." I ended up dating someone about a week after that for about 8 months, alas that one ended as well as we really weren't compatiable.

 

The point is, hang in there, things happen for a reason. Leave this girl alone, I had to sac up and leave my ex gf alone when it was obvious she didn't want me to contact her. As I've said in other posts, she's tried contacting me twice since we've been apart. Listen to the women on this thread, Sarah12, and Grace both are 100% correct.

[mandarincool]

listen, Kanuk, i should feel for you, as i'm in a similar boat and also having a difficult time. it hurts to be dumped, but enough already. you are starting to worry and wear on people, like the friend who's email you quoted, and others who have been patiently trying to support you on this forum, in this trying time. but all you seem to want to do is feel sorry for yourself and think that it's all about you.

 

it is not all about you. heather has a life of her own. you have a life of your own. don't get mired in self-pity. live your life. that will make you much more attractive, and soon enough you'll have a new girlfriend to try again with. good luck and best wishes.

[Kanuk]

Yeah, i know i'm grating on peoples nerves and i feel bad for it. I came to a milestone today i think. I no longer seem to care about it anymore. I felt moderatly good for the first time today.

IF she ever calls, great. I'm finally accpeting that fact i think.

 

I'll keep you guys updated if she does call, lord know i'll likely need advice then. Thanks for all the help and sorry fo all the whineing, it's an unfortuanate personality trait i think i need to work on harder. I never whined to her, so don't worry about that.

[dribliz]

Leave her alone and let her be. That is the best advice I can give you. My famous saying........you dont' know what you have till it's gone. She'll never know if your never gone. Trust me from first hand experience you will prolong the time of working things out if that may be the case by begging to talk begging for answers. She probably doesn't know them. The more you bother her the more it prolongs the result. I am that girl in a relationship right now. My ex keeps calling me and sending me letter and it is more of a turn off or make me want to turn away then it is for me to reconcile. I know he loves me. I know how he feels and I know he wants to be with me and work it out. I don't need to hear it five times a day all week long. I know where his heart is and I know what he would like to see happen. That is not the point. I am unclear I need time to figure things ut and be alone with myself to figure out where myheart is. If he doens't give that to me it willnever work. Either one of two things are going to happen. Either he is going to push me away completely and ruin all chances of us being together ever or I'm going to go back under pressure and not be clear and it's going to end up worse in the long run. I suggest you move on as if she is not coming back. Your feelings for her aren't going to change but move on and give her space. Like the saying that I've never heard spoken truer.....if you love something let it go if it comes back it's yours if not it was never meant to be. I've been on both sides of that statement. I chases the same ex I am talking about for a year and a half and it went nowhere I finally let him go and now he's back begging to work things out. I am to the point though where I am confused of what I want and what I feel. I know in my heart if he would just give me my time and leave me alone I would get clear and come back his way because deep down I can't imagine my life without him but.............I need space to get clear. I don't know what your ex feels or if she feels the same way but if she does there is only one way to find out and if she doesn't cme back just know that things happen for a reason and they will work out in divine order. LET HER GO!