Author tojaz Posted December 5, 2009 Author Share Posted December 5, 2009 Yes, thank-yous and sorrys can mean a lot. Thats right SHB, and I think I owe you both. To reread my last post, comes off very angry. Some things did touch a nerve a bit. Attribute that to too much stress and not enough sleep. I appreciate your input SHB and love to see you posting good advice to so many. You've come a long way from my first post to you, keep it going, I learn the most about myself in my posts to others rather then what is posted to me usually. Thank You SHB TOJAZ Link to post Share on other sites
soheartbroken Posted December 5, 2009 Share Posted December 5, 2009 Well, my posts came across as harsh, so we're all even! Link to post Share on other sites
soheartbroken Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Hi Tojaz. Have you read "No more Mr. Nice Guy" by Robert Glover I think? Here are some characteristics of the "Nice Guy" Check this out if the link works: http://www.nomoremrniceguy.com/ngs.php Look for the nice guy syndrome. Maybe you've already addressed a lot of this in counseling. I haven't read the book, but just glancing at the page made me think of you. Maybe it's not your situation but it might be good to have a look. I wonder if this applies to women too? My ex, and an acquaintance of mine, both may have some of these characteristics. From the site: Nice Guy Syndrome "I'm one of the nicest guys I know." "How come I always seem to give so much more than I get?" "All I want is to be appreciated, is that asking too much?" "I can never do it right." Sound familiar? These are typical Nice Guy sentiments. A nice guy's primary goal is to make others happy. Nice guys have been conditioned to believe that if they are good, giving, and caring, they will be loved, get what they want, and have a smooth life. Link to post Share on other sites
TDFYC312 Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Sounds familiar I concentrated on keeping my low self esteemed wife happy by dispensing with my hobbies and friends giving all my time to her and one thing she says when she wants a divorce is that I have no outside interests or friends & am boring. I feel for you friend Link to post Share on other sites
carhill Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Amazing how one can boil a marriage down into a single sentence. Elegant simplicity, yet so true Link to post Share on other sites
trippi1432 Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Sounds familiar I concentrated on keeping my low self esteemed wife happy by dispensing with my hobbies and friends giving all my time to her and one thing she says when she wants a divorce is that I have no outside interests or friends & am boring. I feel for you friend Yeah, that sounds familiar, giving up all your interests, hobbies and friends because the H or W is only interested in their own and jealous if you have any. Then they cite "incompatibility" when they leave....after 15 years....hmm, wonder why? My ex did me a favor....I have my life back. Link to post Share on other sites
Author tojaz Posted December 10, 2009 Author Share Posted December 10, 2009 Hi Tojaz. Look for the nice guy syndrome. just took the assessment 35 so guess I'm guilty. Link to post Share on other sites
EcstasyX6 Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 No, I did not tell her most of what I sacraficed, because i did not do these things for gratitude (see title), or for what i thought i could gain from it. If thats the way it comes off then i am sorry to all who are reading this. The feelings in my OP were kept to myself in order to allow her to be happy. She knows some but in the scheme of things very little of what it cost to build our life together. I intend to keep it that way. TOJAZ Hi Tojaz, Your thread brings up a lot of emotion in me, so I have to choose my words carefully. You also have a love fest going on here in the LS family, that I don't want to intrude upon. Usually when I say things here on LS, they're not popular, so I tend to keep quiet and typically feel like an outsider. Maybe I haven't posted enough yet to be welcomed into the fold. You're an amazing, loyal, loving, kind, self-sacrificing man much like my STBX husband. You gave 150%, and it's beyond sad that as much wasn't given in return. SHB kind of got to the heart of what I want to express about self-sacrifice being detrimental. It's noble without a doubt, but when you give it without expectation of something in return, you can fall, and fall hard. You can create a monster by giving a woman(or man) everything and asking for nothing in return. She should not have been the only one to receive a new car, even if you said it was ok. She needed to understand that you are important as well, and were deserving of rewards. If not material in nature, emotional ones. Neither she nor you should have accepted her total absorption in what she was doing. Here-you both are guilty. Someone will crucify me, but I'm speaking from experience. As good a man as you are, you may not ever be fully appreciated by a woman if you're not seen as a magnificent entity in your own right. You should have had your own friends and interests, and she should have taken interest in what you were doing as much as you did in what she was doing. All the years of putting her on a pedestal, while she hob-knobbed, led you to different social spheres. I know that thinking this way is extremely difficult for extreme givers, but I feel it's necessary for the viability of a relationship. In brief, my story is, much like you, I sacrificed by giving up my career, but I was a SAHM, and did pretty much everything from yard work, to child rearing, to finance. My darling STBX attained a high degree, spiraled in his career, received lots of accolades, and to our benefit, took care of the family.(We are gratefully very financially comfortable). But in doing so, over the years, he'd come home, collapse, and watch TV or consume himself with news(porn sometimes I learned), but never really plugged in to me. On the flip side, I complained(maybe not forefully enough), asking for involvement, and attention, but later he confessed that he felt he always he'd have time for that later when he peaked in his career and had more time in general for me and the kids. He knew I'd be there and that I loved him. Yet, we were on parallel train tracks that were starting to veer in different directions. The few friends and interests that he had rarely got his attention. I had lots of friends and interests, and unfortunately, I was less and less connected with my husband because he just seemed like a boring lump on the log. I had an affair because I was emotionally and physically starving. I was wrong in the very worst way. That will offend some, but that's the way it was. We both sacrificed, but I felt overworked and under appreciated while he basked in success refusing to give me the kind of attention that I wanted or thought I needed. It was nobody's fault that we had changed over the years, yet we were both to blame for losing focus. I'd put him on a pedestal, and he'd put me on one. I don't know if any of this will resonate with you at all, but I'd encourage you to not sacrifice yourself until you're like a rung out sponge. Hold back a little for yourself, and you'll become a more interesting and respected person by everyone around you. Link to post Share on other sites
sotagoon Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 I just read this Original Post and feel like it is a look at my own broken relationship. Throw in the "get you through school" and the "I'm by your side all the way through chemo, surgery, and radiation"...and the only thing I didn't get to was the chance to be me again. I LOVE HER...but I don't want to let her go. Why did we not see this coming...?????? Because WE LOVE THEM?..or is it just unconditional TRUST? Link to post Share on other sites
Author tojaz Posted December 20, 2009 Author Share Posted December 20, 2009 Its unconditional love! Trust is part of that. If you love someone unconditionaly then you don't think them capable. TOJAZ Link to post Share on other sites
LisaUk Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 Oh, I know that feeling! Believed every lie he ever told me. Link to post Share on other sites
Author tojaz Posted December 21, 2009 Author Share Posted December 21, 2009 Oh, I know that feeling! Believed every lie he ever told me. Well, thats the double edged sword. No true love without trust, yet its so easy to take advantage of. TOJAZ Link to post Share on other sites
sotagoon Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 Sounds familiar I concentrated on keeping my low self esteemed wife happy by dispensing with my hobbies and friends giving all my time to her and one thing she says when she wants a divorce is that I have no outside interests or friends & am boring. I feel for you friend Wow...you must have been in the room the day my ex left????? "We used to travel with your friends!"....yeah and now they all have families an don't vacation on a monthly basis???...WOW The last fight was actually because I wanted to go on vacation with just "US"...no others??? Link to post Share on other sites
Author tojaz Posted December 21, 2009 Author Share Posted December 21, 2009 Wow...you must have been in the room the day my ex left????? "We used to travel with your friends!"....yeah and now they all have families an don't vacation on a monthly basis???...WOW The last fight was actually because I wanted to go on vacation with just "US"...no others??? The stories are usually very similar. Dday started because i wanted a day just me and the misses Link to post Share on other sites
sotagoon Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 We both sacrificed, but I felt overworked and under appreciated while he basked in success refusing to give me the kind of attention that I wanted or thought I needed. I'm not sure if I'm completely out of line here...but is it too much to ask that your partner communicate the "need" for more attention?...That's all I ever wanted....let me know if I'm mossing something. Everybody "LOVES" in different ways....if somone gave you directions to a puzzle in a language you didn't speak...there's a good chance of either extreme frustration or complete failure with the struggle. But........"I DID IT BECAUSE I LOVE HER" Link to post Share on other sites
Author tojaz Posted December 21, 2009 Author Share Posted December 21, 2009 I'm not sure if I'm completely out of line here...but is it too much to ask that your partner communicate the "need" for more attention?...That's all I ever wanted....let me know if I'm mossing something. Everybody "LOVES" in different ways....if somone gave you directions to a puzzle in a language you didn't speak...there's a good chance of either extreme frustration or complete failure with the struggle. But........"I DID IT BECAUSE I LOVE HER" No, it's not too much to ask at all. Communication is key, but just like everyone loves in different ways, everyone communicates in different ways as well. To use the analogy...two people working same puzzle, but speaking different languages. TOJAZ Link to post Share on other sites
LisaUk Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 No, it's not too much to ask at all. Communication is key, but just like everyone loves in different ways, everyone communicates in different ways as well. To use the analogy...two people working same puzzle, but speaking different languages. TOJAZ But it's common sense though isn't it? That in order to have a helathy relationship there is a need for open honest communication. Plus, remember here, those that walk have choosen to be selfisha and not look at or accept any part they may have played in their own situation. That is not someone you want in your life, let alone need. Link to post Share on other sites
nobmagnet Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 well said Lisa as usual! often tere is nothing we can do to "FIX" a problem they have with us they just seem to deny everythingnot only to you but to themselves. My ex is a narsissist. Incredibly hard to get you head around when you split from one..........they take no blame nothing. Link to post Share on other sites
trippi1432 Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 well said Lisa as usual! often tere is nothing we can do to "FIX" a problem they have with us they just seem to deny everythingnot only to you but to themselves. My ex is a narsissist. Incredibly hard to get you head around when you split from one..........they take no blame nothing. Exactly Nob....all my ex did when he walked was validate his reason and tell me it was best for both of us, I will find someone else...blah, blah, blah. In the meantime, the GF he has now was kicking her husband to the curb with an Oct 1st "get out of the house" date. By the end of the week, my ex told me he "found" someone. I will gladly take all the blame to have my life back before him. You can't "fix" them or the problem they have with you...it's impossible. Link to post Share on other sites
Author tojaz Posted December 21, 2009 Author Share Posted December 21, 2009 But it's common sense though isn't it? That in order to have a helathy relationship there is a need for open honest communication. Plus, remember here, those that walk have choosen to be selfisha and not look at or accept any part they may have played in their own situation. That is not someone you want in your life, let alone need. Yes, it is common sense, yet being that everyone communicates in different ways, there is no guarantees that you are being heard the way you intend, or that the way you choose to interpret what you hear is correct. Perception I believe is what leads to break ups more then anything else. I know it played a big part in mine. She was communicating in her way and I in mine. We both missed key elements of what the other was trying to express because of that even though in our own minds it was clear as day. Thats why MC is so important, to have someone to help interpret and avoid the dangerous misconceptions. The end comes when one partner dosen't value the relationship enough to get the answers. Choosing to turn their back on their problems rather then solve them. Divorce is too easy and too quick a solution. Readily available at the slightest hint of marital strife or a seemingly more attractive alternative. TOJAZ Link to post Share on other sites
LisaUk Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 I'd agree with that. Unfortunately in my situation my ex prefered to communicate by lying and gaslighting me. No one but a narcissist would think that is an effective form of communication. Walk aways still owe a commitment to work it out and accept their part though, remebering why you valued the realtionship in the first plave rather than trying to find excuses and justifications to leave it. Link to post Share on other sites
Author tojaz Posted December 22, 2009 Author Share Posted December 22, 2009 I'd agree with that. Unfortunately in my situation my ex prefered to communicate by lying and gaslighting me. No one but a narcissist would think that is an effective form of communication. I don't think I've made any secret what my opinions are of your ex Lis. Wasn't long ago I was telling you those things. Walk aways still owe a commitment to work it out and accept their part though, remebering why you valued the realtionship in the first plave rather than trying to find excuses and justifications to leave it. Agree wholoe heartedly! 100% With the influx of walk aways here lately though, you can see that they don't see things that way. Not the same way we do. They don't see the relationship in the same light. The history has been rewritten for them. Usually permanently. TOJAZ Link to post Share on other sites
LisaUk Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 I don't think I've made any secret what my opinions are of your ex Lis. Wasn't long ago I was telling you those things. Agree wholoe heartedly! 100% With the influx of walk aways here lately though, you can see that they don't see things that way. Not the same way we do. They don't see the relationship in the same light. The history has been rewritten for them. Usually permanently. TOJAZ No, b/c they prefer it that way makes it easier for those with the capacity to walk to do so. Link to post Share on other sites
Author tojaz Posted December 22, 2009 Author Share Posted December 22, 2009 No, b/c they prefer it that way makes it easier for those with the capacity to walk to do so. Agreed. It is all a tool they use to detach and to paint themselves blameless. Link to post Share on other sites
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