Fiance sleeping on his ex's sofa?

[hopeoverexperience]

My fiance has extensive childcare responsiblities left over from a previous relationship which I'm fine with... it's his child he should look after her and I'm happy for her to stay with us whenever. One night a week he looks after her at her mother's house and while I don't like it I understand the reasons and put up with it. He usually rushes home as soon as he can and calls while he's there which reassures me and makes it easier to cope with. But tonight he's really upset me and I'm not sure what to think.

 

He had said that he would probably go out with a friend after looking after his daughter so when I got home from my evening out and he wasn't home, I didn't think anything of it. I'd had a bit to drink so went to bed early thinking that he'd wake me when he got home. I woke up at 3.45am and he wasn't home so I called his mobile. No answer. Then I listened to my voicemail and he'd left a message while I was asleep saying that his daughter wasn't sleeping well and he'd stayed to help out longer and ended up falling asleep on the sofa; that he knew I wouldn't like it but it was too late to get a train home. Then my mobile rings and it's him, being a bit grumpy but again very apologetic.

 

Now I'm writing this I'm starting to think that maybe I'm over-reacting but there's something eating away at me and I don't know how much of it is anxiety after people have cheated on me in previous relationships and how much of it is/should be real concern about tonight and him staying at his ex's. It's obviously jealousy - I don't want my fiance having any semblance of a 'family life' elsewhere - but should I be concerned???

[Reckless]

Sounds like a one off to me - as you said he usually comes straight home and if his daughter was sick it would seem reasonable he'd want to stay, so I'd say you should probably forget it.

 

However, I'd be a little uncomfortable with the 'weekly in home visits' but I presume it's because it's on a school night and she has to be up early the next day? Is her mother there? It seems that some arrangement could be made to have her at his own place but if that's impossible then, as you said he has to make his child's needs a priority and you may just have to live with it and quiet the demon voices yourself.

 

He left a message, kept his mobile on and apologized, short of walking home at 1am (I take it he hasn't a car) he's done all he can with a difficult situation. Sounds like you have a good (and responsible) man, don't fix what ain't broke.

[Thor]

I'm in the same situation as your fiancee short of being engaged myself. The important thing for you to recognize is that you're jealous now. Will you be able to deal with this when you're married to him? This situation probably won't change until his daughter is much older, and that's why I'm wondering if you'll be able to cope with this.

[EnigmaXOXO]

I also agree with Reckless and Thor.

 

Although if in a similar situation, given your past history, I might also be a little concerned. But I'd give him the benefit of the doubt and wait to see what happens.

 

If it happens again, or becomes a habit, I would be inclined to investigate it further...perhaps even work up the courage speak to the ex wife herself.

 

But not yet.

[cdn]

I have to disagree with the other posters here or at least ask more questions. What is your fiance's ex doing on the one night a week he babysits in her home?

 

You fiance should definitely be a part of his daughter's life. This typically means some sort of visitation schedule will need to be worked out between your fiance and his ex. This provides many benefits, key among them that your fiance and his daughter have an opportunity to create their own relationship on their own terms and turf.

 

Is there no way your fiance can watch his daughter at his house? This would give him and his daughter an opportunity to form their own rituals for their time together. It would also not give the daughter the false hope that a reconcialiation is imminent, something she is more likely to fantasize about if she sees daddy primarily at her house.

[reservoirdog1]

I'm with CDN on this one. Your fiance should tell his XW that he's not going to babysit at her house anymore. It's inappropriate and, frankly, her incredibly busy schedule has to take a backseat to your needs as his wife-to-be. Would you want that crap to continue once you're married? I highly doubt it.

 

My TBEW initially tried to get me to agree to come over and watch the kids one night per week. I told her to forget it -- I'd have them an extra day per week instead, and that would still give her the evening time she needed. I'm their father, not their babysitter. My time with them takes place at my home, not hers. Your fiance's XW will have to decide which is more important: seeing the kids for one additional day per week, or getting out and oding whatever on that particular evening. Your fiance shouldn't have to be her pinch hitter. He should tell her to hire a sitter instead.

[cdn]

I'm their father, not their babysitter.

 

Exactly.

[Arabess]

I agree with cdn and resovoir. There are situations which a couple can agree on, especially the kids involved, early on in a divorce. However, as their relationship changes and "other" people incorporate their lives...they need to take that into consideration and make the appropriate new negotiations.

 

As a girlfriend, maybe you didn't have the clout or right to demand this change. However, once you are married....this can become a major issue. His child will ALWAYS be his child....but his EX's home is no longer his home and he shouldn't be staying there for ANY reason.

 

I'm sure last night was just a fluke of circumstance. He seems like a really nice guy....and probably a wonderful Dad. However, it doesn't change the fact that once he is committed to you in a marriage....there are changes he will have to make. Last night only proved this to be true. The situation of babysitting may have made perfect sense intially....but obvioulsy it isn't making sense now...nor is it healthy for your own marriage with him.

 

He needs to sit down with the ex....and discuss an alternate way of dealing with the situation. Hopefully, she is mature enough to understand what he is saying...and will work with him on it. He can also make up for the time missed with his daughter by having more extended visits at other times....in the house where he is living....NOT at the ex's house.

[hopeoverexperience]

Again fantastic advice. He is a good man (and a good father) and I do trust him but everyone has demons. Last week was a one-off and arrangements are underway so that he doesn't have to go there to babysit anymore. It's not a comfortable situation for anyone involved but changing it is a longwinded process because of childcare issues. His ex is working when he's there although there's obviously some overlap when she gets home. I don't want to come over the wicked stepmother but as you all point out things do have to change.

 

Thanks to you all, especially the 'don't fix what ain't broke' comment - sometimes truly the best advice but the hardest to hear.

 

I'm so glad I kept calm over this and I'm sure things will resolve themselves.

[lovetoeatspit]

that bum is still ****ing his ex and you can take that to the bank, all men are alike the only reason one won't cheat Is options.

[Skittles]

Originally posted by hopeoverexperience

It's obviously jealousy - I don't want my fiance having any semblance of a 'family life' elsewhere - but should I be concerned???

 

I think you're OK here, so far. Like Reckless advised don't fix what ain't broke....But on the other hand, when a distant alarm bell starts going off, it may also be a good idea to pay attention and be conscious of why you are feeling jealous....

 

Just a thought.

[reservoirdog1]

"all men are alike the only reason one won't cheat Is options."

 

A tad bitter, are we? Actually, some men are honest and don't cheat. I didn't. My to-be-ex-wife did, many times. Does that mean all women are like her? I don't think so.

[pinkroses]

if you have any reason to be worried, is knowing what your finace's relationship is with his ex-wife. My boyfriend spent 2 days last week, during the daytime at his ex-wife's house taking care of his little boy, who was sick. The ex-wife was working during those days, otherwise he wouldn't have been over there hanging out. At night he stayed at his own house, not at hers. I have met his ex-wife and have seen their interaction, and I know for sure he has absolutely no affection or lingering feelings for her at all. He wasn't even attracted to her their last two years of marriage. She has a take-or-leave attitude toward him too. So I don't ever worry about them being around each other. When you are used to divorce and child custody situations, you realize how necessary it often is for your partner to be around their ex. I have the same situation, and the feelings are so far removed between me and my ex we're practically asexual in each other's presence. I don't see that a man or woman having to go to the ex's house regularly or even spend time around the ex is a problem unless one or both still have strong attachments and feelings toward each other. My ex-husband is recently re-married and his wife is very jealous of me. If only she realized her worries are totally in vain, if only she knew how utterly un-interested I am in my ex anymore.

[AllyKat]

I would have a problem with my guy sleeping at his ex's house. He is to have a relationship with his daughter, not this woman. He doesnt need to stay at her house to take care of his daughter. Im sorry but I'd be pissed.

[hopeoverexperience]

haha the jokes on me.... he left me to go back to her two days after Christmas.... trust your instincts not your intellect... angry and upset doesn't quite describe how I'm feeling right now. I wanted to trust and I did. I wish I hadn't bothered. I feel completely used.

[Kat]

I don't know what to say other than you did nothing wrong by trusting this man. Trusting someone like this isn't something you should feel ashamed for, nor should you feel as if you have done anything wrong, let alone stupid for it.

 

Can I ask how it ended? How do you just leave your fiance like that? On a good note, if he left you, you get to keep the ring

yeah okay, sorry shouldn't make jokes

[EnigmaXOXO]

NEVER...EVER...Berate yourself for trusting someone!

 

You gave him the benefit of the doubt, NOT the go-ahead to take advantage of it. HE was the one who lied to you, its NOT your fault that he was so damn good at it.

 

You are NOT naive, you are NOT gullible, and you DID NOT deserve what he did to you.

 

I know you can't see it now, but you're better off without this snake. He is a sorry, dishonest excuse for a human being and his ex did you a favor by taking him off your hands.

 

Don't you ever be afraid to open up your heart to another man. Do not punish yourself by denying yourself the opportunity to allow love into your life again. Take this lesson and 'file it' so that you will be better prepared if a situation like this should ever present itself again.

 

Yep. I know it sucks, and I know you’re p*ssed. But you take that anger and turn it into an antidote to rid this cad from your life once and for all. There are too many wonderful men in the world to waste your time grieving over the loss of this one a-hole.

 

Take the time you need to catch your breath and recover, then get back out there and start meeting new people. Happiness and indifference is the best revenge. Go about you life as if nothing happened as soon as you are able. Do not contact him --- do not let him contact you. Drop yourself right out of his radar. Believe me, when his previous marital problems raise their ugly head again, he may try to fall back on you. Don’t let him. Leave him to rot in the bed he’s made for himself.

[Tony T]

Yes, of course, you should always trust your instincts and your intuition. They seldom lie...unless, of course, you've been diagnoses as paranoid schizophrenic. However, I think before your instinct and your intuition spoke up, you should have know intellectually that there were no good reason for him to be spending the night there...and the child's mother could easily work to get the child to sleep whil he fulfilled his obligation to be back hom with you.

 

This is an excellent lesson in listening to one's deep, inner voice. It was put there early on in evolution to warn early man of impending danger and it is still very operable today. What some people mistake for trust is only their fervent desire to believe what is least painful for them to believe and what they hope is the truth. This actually spares helps them the painful anguish which would result in the inability to confirm the actual truth in most cases.

 

If you even have enough of a feeling that something may be going on to ask other's opinions on an Internet forum, there's most likely something going on. If you have that feeling, that's enough of a problem in itself to address in a relationship.

[moimeme]

Tony couldn't have said it better. I just want to reinforce his words. Every really stupid mistake I've made in my life has had to do with NOT listening to my instincts and trying to override them with 'intellect'. The lesson you take from this is that your instincts are absolutely invaluable.

[EnigmaXOXO]

Every really stupid mistake I've made in my life has had to do with NOT listening to my instincts and trying to override them with 'intellect'.

 

Me too, Moimeme!

 

...and because I allowed someone to convince me that I was just being "paranoid."

 

No such thing as paranoia or baggage in my vocabulary anymore...now I prefer to call it *heightened awareness*.

[jmargel]

I'm going to take a different route in all of this. What YOU need to do is start concentrating on yourself. When my ex-fiancee left me for my best friend after going through verbal, emotional abuse, etc.. the first thing I went to, was the doctors. One thing she said that I won't forget and it's true is that you will go through stages. Just as if the person died.

 

1. Denial and Shock

At first, it may be difficult for you to accept your own dying or the death of a loved one/classmate. As a result you will deny the reality of death. However, this denial will gradually diminish as you begins to express and share your feelings about death and dying with other students or friends.

(Even though your fiancee is living, all the things you two shared is gone. Remember this is NOT your fault!)

 

2. Anger

During this stage the most common question asked is "why me?". You are angry at what you perceive to be the unfairness of death and you may project and displace your anger unto others. When given some social support and respect, you will eventually become less angry and able to move into the next stage of grieving.

(You are probably angry at him now, but it will get worse. Remember to control it and NOT do anything rash)

 

3. Bargaining

Many students try to bargain with some sort of diety. They probably try to bargain and offer to give up an enjoyable part of their lives in exchange for the return of health or the lost person.

(You might try and want to get back with him at some point, blaming some of the things that happened on yourself)

 

4. Guilt

You may find yourself feeling guilty for things you did or didn't do prior to the loss. Forgive yourself. Accept your humanness. (Same as number three)

 

5. Depression

You may at first experience a sense of great loss. Mood fluctuations and feelings of isolation and withdrawal may follow. It takes time for you, the grieving student, to gradually return to your old self and become socially involved in what's going on around you.

Please note that encouragement and reassurance to the bereaved student will not be helpful in this stage.

(You'll hit stages of depression & loneliness. Some days will be better than others, but over time things WILL GET BETTER)

 

6. Loneliness

As you go through changes in your social life because of the loss, you may feel lonely and afraid. The more you are able to reach out to others and make new friends, the more this feeling lessens.

 

7. Acceptance

Acceptance does not mean happiness. Instead you accept and deal with the reality of the situation.

(You totally accepted this, and don't or can't see any future with him. You will realize this in time it could take months or years depending on the person)

 

8. Hope

Eventually you will reach a point where remembering will be less painful and you can begin to look ahead to the future and more good times.

(You'll have learned a great deal about not only your past relationship but by going through these stages. You will have gained ALOT of wisdom and insight into relationships and life in general. The next relationship you have after going through these steps will be so much more rewarding!)

 

 

Hang in there & start doing things that make YOU happy. Things that you couldn't do before, do them! I have went through all of this, and no it's not fair but it some ways down the road you might look at this as a blessing in deguise.

 

Good luck!!

[hopeoverexperience]

In response to Kat's post, it ended like this.

 

Christmas Eve fine. Christmas Day something's up but I'm not sure what. Boxing Day something's still up and I'm still not sure quite what but its now making me edgy too. Try talking and am told that everything's fine he's just missing his daughter at Christmas which I understand and sympathise with. Push it to the point where things are said about the future and I say to him "I'm just worried that there's other things you're not telling me." In response "Just remember that I love you and I always will". Uh oh. Something is definitely up. I do my usual withdraw and wait for the worse to happen. It does.

 

We've had his daughter with us for a couple of days and he goes out to take her back to his ex. We agree to meet for a drink in a couple of hours once his daughter's been dropped off. I wait. For an hour. I phone and am told that he's just buying a record but after that will come and meet me. I wait for another hour. I try to phone and his phone is switched off. I text to say that I'm going somewhere else and he can meet me there. I wait there for another hour. I go home. I wait. I try to phone and he's still got his phone switched off. I bite the bullet and phone his ex. She tells me that they've spent the afternoon at some friends of hers but that he's on his way home now. What!!!! I try to phone him again but he doesn't answer. So I phone her back and ask what the hell's going on. "We're not doing anything behind your back" she says, "We've just been having discussions". What the hell does that mean, do they both really think that isn't going behind my back. I'm violently sick on the doorstep, I cry, I smoke about 30 cigarettes in an hour, my world's just collapsed around me. He comes home, I tell him how much he's hurt me and try to get him to explain. He can't he just looks at the floor and says sorry alot. He packs a bag and leaves saying that he'll get the rest of his stuff in the new year. That's it. Over, gone, done with. Then he phones at 11pm asking how I am. How the hell does he think I am??!! I tell him that he has to get the rest of his stuff as soon as possible, but hold back from get it by tomorrow or it's going out in the road. First thing the next morning, I retreat back to my mothers house. He phones and asks if it's OK to go and get a few things, I repeat that I want him to take all of it asap. He says he'll call me in a couple of days. Why???!! My friend who's feeding my cats while I'm away tells me most of it's gone (although I note not the things they don't need like another cot or an another baby bath). And that's it. Everything will be cancelled. The house we were buying will be put back on the market. The mortgage application will be cancelled. He goes back to where he came from and I go back to where I started. End of.

 

I was so sure he was the one for me. After a fairly disasterous relationship history, I was so happy that I had finally found someone that I thought I could build a life with that I guess I was blind. As Tony puts it... "What some people mistake for trust is only their fervent desire to believe what is least painful for them to believe and what they hope is the truth."

 

I'm trying to take in all your advice but right now I can't imagine trusting anyone enough to agree to a date, let alone a relationship. And, despite everything, I'm still in love with this man.

[jmargel]

The last thing you need right now is a 'date' or a 'relationship' with someone else. Like I said in my previous post you probably won't be ready until you go through those stages I mentioned above. He hasn't given you any reason or closure on why he's done this. You deserve that at least.

[EnigmaXOXO]

He hasn't given you any reason or closure on why he's done this. You deserve that at least.

 

She sure does, jmargel!

 

But I wonder if she’s ever going to get that without chasing him down and begging? And even if he does verbalize what is already apparent, hearing what she already knows won’t make her feel any better. Real closure will only come when she is finally able to shut the door on that man --- and LOCK it!

 

The man has a tremendous attachment to his daughter. Understandable. Probably moreso than to his ex wife. Perhaps Christmas reminded him of the family they once were, and he longed to get back to those happy memories. (The holidays sometimes do funny things to people). Of course, there was still the issue of the ex wife. Would she take him back? Would she be willing to let him move in and try again? He was taking little steps at a time…trying to work his way back into the home. This might explain why he was spending so much time over there as well as his alleged accidental overnighter.

 

Meanwhile, (and here’s where the sh*tty part comes in) he keeps Hope in the background as his ‘safety net.’ If the ex won’t agree to take him back, he can always start over with the lady waiting in the wings. Sure, he loved and cared for Hope (according to his definition of “love”), but he wanted the old family back more. At this point, his own “wants” and “needs” superceded those of the people around him, and once he got the okay from the ex, he felt justified in his decision. After all, now THREE people got what they wanted … except for Hope. She now becomes the expendable casualty. But what do they care? To them, Hope is the just the ‘outsider’ in this big happy family.

 

All Hope needs to know, is that she really didn’t know this man for who he really was. He fed her the illusion…and she bought it. Not her fault. Manipulators are very skilled at lying and can even be described as overly friendly and “charming.” It’s a survival skill they use to their advantage. If he had any shred of decency at all, he would have alerted Hope to his wavering affections long before this day occurred. The decision didn’t happen over-night, rather it was an evolving process that she was excluded from deliberately. After all, if she had already known, she would have booted him out and left him between homes.

 

Of course, he’s going to pretend to be sympathetic and apologize. He’s simply covering his tracks. And if he can get her to believe some cockamamie story about how bad he feels, maybe she’ll reserve a soft spot in her heart in the event it doesn’t work out with the ex and he needs a place to go. These kind of people NEVER burn their bridges, so complete closure is the one thing Hope will never get.

 

Man!….I sound bitter, and this hasn’t even happened to me!!

 

Don’t worry Hope. I’m p*ssed off enough for the both of us!!

[Hopeoverexperience]

Enigma - Thank you. What you've posted has made everything so clear and the situation much easier to deal with.

 

This man isn't the person I fell in love with. The person I fell in love with was decent and honest, whatever mistakes he had made in the past he had learned from and he took responsibility for his own happiness. Unfortunately it seems like I fell in love with the imaginary man. The real man was a liar and a coward, incapable of building a life for himself, capable of living a lie so long as it provided the sham security and stability the situation gave him and, to top it all, unable the difference between someone who genuinely cared for him (or rather for the person I thought he was) and someone who just needs an emotional and financial crutch.

 

Initially I felt angry at his ex. It was her that ended their relationship, she wanted more excitement and variety in her life but once he was gone, as bit by bit we grew closer as a couple and made plans, she started to become more demanding and needy; couldn't cope with life on her own as the reality of not having a dependable man around to constantly boost her ego slowly dawned. I still don't believe she wants him really just that she was miserable at Christmas and didn't have a date for New Years Eve. BUT, I now feel angry at him and not just for what he's done to me (I'll cope - I'm not a coward, I do learn and I take full responsibility for my own life). He's been such a fool to go back to a situation which made him miserable, to someone who while refusing to be intimate with him was quite happy to be intimate with other men. I'm fully expecting them to get married in a short while; he'll try to make the situation concrete, he'll believe what he wants to believe and ignore anything which doesn't tie in with his fantasy. He has no friends of his own to look out for him - the one he did have won't have anything to do with them as a couple because she once made a pass at him! - and the so-called friends they shared collude in the madness of their relationship because it makes dinner parties less awkward.

 

If anything good has come out of the whole thing, it's me realising just how 'well' I am and how much I have learned from my own previous mistakes. Up until about 12 months ago my response to this would have been to drink heavily, not talk about it and immediately look for someone else to fill the void and make the pain go away. I'm not saying it doesn't hurt, or that I understand therefore I'm over it, just that in some strange way perhaps I've come out of this the best of the three of us. I have a chance of real happiness with myself/someone else, whereas they've both opted for the misery of the certain.

 

xxxx