Maybe I really am so horrible with which to live?

[prenus.]

My wife and I have been together over 15 years (dating and marriage). We have three children in elementary school. Since the birth of our third child, sex has occured less and less frequently. At this point, it has been so long, I don't remember the last time we had sex. (I think it was Thanksgiving of 2007.) She won't let me touch her. I am only allowed to kiss her if its a goodnight kiss, the lights are out, and it is only a quick peck. She won't even hold hands with me. She makes showing basic affection a huge struggle.

 

A few years back, as frustrations in general were beginning to build in our marriage, she suggested we see a counselor together. At the time I felt we could not afford counseling sessions but agreed to them anyway. I said, "That's fine by me. You tell me when and where and I will make sure I am there." Since then, she has never approached the subject again, having dropped the matter as soon as I agreed to it.

 

At various times, she has said, "When such-and-such happens, we can start having sex again." However, everytime (and, yes, I mean 'everytime' literally) that 'such-and-such' has occured, I was told a different 'such-and-such' needed to occur.

 

When asked why she won't have sex with me, she frequently says she feels a great deal of resentment towards me but refuses to say why in any coherent fashion. Now and then, she has said she is on a 'sex strike' until, for example, the house is clean. Yet, (continuing with this example) when I clean the house she gets angry with me because 'You are just cleaning the house so we can have sex'. I do not clean the house just for sex. I actually clean the house to clean the house. Do I succeed everyday? Of course not. I have not even succeeded at cleaning the entire house one day. I do not know of anyone who has. Such accusations are incredibly frustrating and demeaning.

 

She often says she does not blame me for 'this problem' or for 'that problem'. However, I can hear, from the tenor in her voice, she does. I feel as if I need to make things perfect for her to not feel miserable.

 

She routinely ignores my opinion, my advice, and my insight, insisting I must be wrong. Yet, when someone else gives the exact same opinion, advice, or insight, she actually listens and refuses to automatically dismiss such without giving it at least some consideration.

 

When we talk, I usually end up being the only one talking, not because I dominate the conversation (although I can do so quite easily), but because she is routinely distracted with something else: surfing the web, reading a book, talking on the phone, napping on the couch. When she does talk to me, she does so in partial sentences. She will get half way thru the sentence, pause, give me a blank stare, and immediately get distracted with something else, usually what she was doing before (e.g., shopping on-line). I will ask her to finish the thought and she will dismiss me with, "oh, nothing," or "I forget." Now, if she were a stereotypical "air head", I might be somewhat 'okay' about this behavior. However, she is an incredibly intelligent woman.

 

All the years we have been together, I do not recall her ever saying anything nice about me to anyone else. Usually, she says things to make fun of me. This was okay when I thought it was just her form of playful flirting. Over the years, however, she seems to take more and more pride in her 'shots'. I am at a point I do not know why she is even in this marriage.

 

The other day, I said, "I love you," and she replied, "No, you don't."

 

Now, I know I am no where near the perfect husband. I know I am no where near traditional. For example, because, to my mind, sex and love are two separate concepts, I have no objection to a 'sexually open' marriage (with certain precautions to protect each other, of course), though I have never had sex with anyone outside our relationship. I have felt, until she says it is perfectly okay for me to do so, I would respect the more traditional monogomous approach to marriage and she knows this fact.

 

Am I rude, crude, bold, and brash? Yes. However, she knew this when we married and, now, frequently asks me to not say anything in front of her friends because she is afraid I might say something they do not like. I am really confused because, on our wedding day, I thought she married me and not them.

 

And, yes, I have porn on my laptop. I do not deny it. I am not ashamed of it. I have it because we have not been having sex. I keep it in a hidden directory (easily done with a mac) and my children are not sufficiently knowledgable to find that directory. Heck, they hardly get computer time as it is and then are only interested in playing chess or other games, always under our strict supervision. So, no risk of discovery exists.

 

However, in what is to me an extremely telling moment, my wife onced stated she was upset because I have the porn. I explained, "I only have the porn because you and I have not been having sex. I will delete every last bit right now if you agree to have sex some time within the next year." She paused for a brief moment and said, "You can kep the porn."

 

In another telling moment a few months ago, she said she would be interested in having sex if someone else was here instead of me. That hurt. A lot.

 

Have I tried discussing all of these issues with her? Yes. Does she respond constructively? Well, if by "constructively" you mean describing my complaints as "ridiculous" or "selfish" or "over-reacting", then, yes.

 

I want my wife to not feel bitter towards me.

I want to feel good about being at home.

I want to feel as if I do not have to panic over everything.

I want to be able to hold her hand.

I want her to want to hold my hand.

I want to be able to talk with her.

I want her to actually talk with me.

I want to actually believe she loves me.

I want her to believe I love her, if not know I love her.

I want to feel she does not blame me for everything which goes wrong.

And, yes, I would eventually like to start having sex again.

 

However, I do not know what to do.

[Malenfant]

your wife has some major issues.

nothing can change until you both find out what they are.

 

she doesnt respect you. thats a very big problem.

 

If she's still willing, do the councelling. and dont wait for her to sort it, arrange it yourself and see what happens.

maybe she was thinking that as you are the one who is unhappy, that you would have been the one to get help for them. Its a possibility that she's angry you never did.

I dont thing its your fault though, she's obviously complex and her needs from you change day to day, you cant do right for doing wrong at the moment.

 

broach the idea of the councelling, see how that goes.

Dont say its because you want sex, and dont attack her, just say its because neither of you are happy and you want that to change.

[hopeful1980]

This woman has no respect for you. She feels superior to you. Plain and simple. I know you aren't a perfect husband, but you are trying and it would seem that she is not.

 

That's a problem. A BIG problem.

 

I suggest you check out the movie Fireproof. It's a religous movie, but it applies to all marriages. You can't change your wife, but you can change yourself. In doing that, she will be forced to change in response to the changes you make.

 

Good luck! There is hope for you, but it will take a lot of work.

[pollswolls]

And, yes, I have porn on my laptop. I do not deny it. I am not ashamed of it. I have it because we have not been having sex. I keep it in a hidden directory

 

However, in what is to me an extremely telling moment, my wife onced stated she was upset because I have the porn. I explained, "I only have the porn because you and I have not been having sex. I will delete every last bit right now if you agree to have sex some time within the next year." She paused for a brief moment and said, "You can kep the porn."

 

I don't blame her for this comment - I'd say the same thing!!

 

You have just de-bunked EVERYTHING any other & EVERY OTHER man has ever said to any women, here or anywhere else regarding PORN

 

You're telling us that If your wife was having significant amount of sex to suit you - WITH YOU - then the porn would go away!!?? I almost feel a little sorry for your wife - because this just cannot be true & for you to tell her so much as "Well, honey if you'd just have sex I wouldn't need porn" for crying out loud. That's a good one.

 

Ask any other man - Porn is there because men are voyers. Men could have sex 12 times a day & they would STILL look at porn.

It just is what it is.

 

There is an awful lot of complaining from husbands on here about their wives & lack of sex. What's up with all of this?

 

In my own marriage - Yep, from time to time there isn't as much sex. But hells, bells, **** happens in every single marriage. Ups/Downs...Sex/No Sex.

 

My apologies if this comes across as harsh. Kind of hit a bit of a nerve here.

[mem11363]

Many men who have a great sexual relationship with their wives do not look at porn. Why would you think that there is no correlation?

 

I haven't looked at porn in 3-4 years, I like real sex with a loving wife way better. However if my wife was freezing me out in the bedroom I would use porn as a substitute for real sex.

 

 

You have just de-bunked EVERYTHING any other & EVERY OTHER man has ever said to any women, here or anywhere else regarding PORN

 

You're telling us that If your wife was having significant amount of sex to suit you - WITH YOU - then the porn would go away!!?? I almost feel a little sorry for your wife - because this just cannot be true & for you to tell her so much as "Well, honey if you'd just have sex I wouldn't need porn" for crying out loud. That's a good one.

 

Ask any other man - Porn is there because men are voyers. Men could have sex 12 times a day & they would STILL look at porn.

It just is what it is.

 

There is an awful lot of complaining from husbands on here about their wives & lack of sex. What's up with all of this?

 

In my own marriage - Yep, from time to time there isn't as much sex. But hells, bells, **** happens in every single marriage. Ups/Downs...Sex/No Sex.

 

My apologies if this comes across as harsh. Kind of hit a bit of a nerve here.

[mem11363]

Those 4 adjectives might entertain a young wife. They will repulse a mature woman.

 

Why would you describe yourself as bold? You seem timid and terrified of your wife.

 

Any man I know who really IS bold, when challenged on the porn would have said - have sex with me tonight, and then start having regular sex with me - and we can delete it together in a month.

 

Asking if she will have sex with you within the next year is about as weak as you can get.

 

Interesting thing is that guys who talk big but struggle to deliver tend to end up with very frustrated, sexually cold wives. I bet your wife had high expectations when she met you. Are you able to sit down and have an honest conversation about THAT? About how she expected her life to be versus how it is.

 

By the way - it is not bold - rather it is cowardly - to let someone surf, read, nap while you try to speak to them.

 

You need to learn this phrase: We need to discuss something important and I need your full attention for at least 10 minutes. And then keep it to 10 minutes and be direct.

 

Why don't you suggest therapy?

 

One common sense tip that is simple to act on. Do not continue to speak to her when she is not paying full attention to you. If she is surfing and says something as you walk by, just respond with - lets discuss that when you are finished with the computer. Same if she is reading. Or doing anything that divides her attention. Because each time you let her treat you this way - her respect for you which is already low, drops even further.

 

 

 

 

 

 

My wife and I have been together over 15 years (dating and marriage). We have three children in elementary school. Since the birth of our third child, sex has occured less and less frequently. At this point, it has been so long, I don't remember the last time we had sex. (I think it was Thanksgiving of 2007.) She won't let me touch her. I am only allowed to kiss her if its a goodnight kiss, the lights are out, and it is only a quick peck. She won't even hold hands with me. She makes showing basic affection a huge struggle.

 

A few years back, as frustrations in general were beginning to build in our marriage, she suggested we see a counselor together. At the time I felt we could not afford counseling sessions but agreed to them anyway. I said, "That's fine by me. You tell me when and where and I will make sure I am there." Since then, she has never approached the subject again, having dropped the matter as soon as I agreed to it.

 

At various times, she has said, "When such-and-such happens, we can start having sex again." However, everytime (and, yes, I mean 'everytime' literally) that 'such-and-such' has occured, I was told a different 'such-and-such' needed to occur.

 

When asked why she won't have sex with me, she frequently says she feels a great deal of resentment towards me but refuses to say why in any coherent fashion. Now and then, she has said she is on a 'sex strike' until, for example, the house is clean. Yet, (continuing with this example) when I clean the house she gets angry with me because 'You are just cleaning the house so we can have sex'. I do not clean the house just for sex. I actually clean the house to clean the house. Do I succeed everyday? Of course not. I have not even succeeded at cleaning the entire house one day. I do not know of anyone who has. Such accusations are incredibly frustrating and demeaning.

 

She often says she does not blame me for 'this problem' or for 'that problem'. However, I can hear, from the tenor in her voice, she does. I feel as if I need to make things perfect for her to not feel miserable.

 

She routinely ignores my opinion, my advice, and my insight, insisting I must be wrong. Yet, when someone else gives the exact same opinion, advice, or insight, she actually listens and refuses to automatically dismiss such without giving it at least some consideration.

 

When we talk, I usually end up being the only one talking, not because I dominate the conversation (although I can do so quite easily), but because she is routinely distracted with something else: surfing the web, reading a book, talking on the phone, napping on the couch. When she does talk to me, she does so in partial sentences. She will get half way thru the sentence, pause, give me a blank stare, and immediately get distracted with something else, usually what she was doing before (e.g., shopping on-line). I will ask her to finish the thought and she will dismiss me with, "oh, nothing," or "I forget." Now, if she were a stereotypical "air head", I might be somewhat 'okay' about this behavior. However, she is an incredibly intelligent woman.

 

All the years we have been together, I do not recall her ever saying anything nice about me to anyone else. Usually, she says things to make fun of me. This was okay when I thought it was just her form of playful flirting. Over the years, however, she seems to take more and more pride in her 'shots'. I am at a point I do not know why she is even in this marriage.

 

The other day, I said, "I love you," and she replied, "No, you don't."

 

Now, I know I am no where near the perfect husband. I know I am no where near traditional. For example, because, to my mind, sex and love are two separate concepts, I have no objection to a 'sexually open' marriage (with certain precautions to protect each other, of course), though I have never had sex with anyone outside our relationship. I have felt, until she says it is perfectly okay for me to do so, I would respect the more traditional monogomous approach to marriage and she knows this fact.

 

Am I rude, crude, bold, and brash? Yes. However, she knew this when we married and, now, frequently asks me to not say anything in front of her friends because she is afraid I might say something they do not like. I am really confused because, on our wedding day, I thought she married me and not them.

 

And, yes, I have porn on my laptop. I do not deny it. I am not ashamed of it. I have it because we have not been having sex. I keep it in a hidden directory (easily done with a mac) and my children are not sufficiently knowledgable to find that directory. Heck, they hardly get computer time as it is and then are only interested in playing chess or other games, always under our strict supervision. So, no risk of discovery exists.

 

However, in what is to me an extremely telling moment, my wife onced stated she was upset because I have the porn. I explained, "I only have the porn because you and I have not been having sex. I will delete every last bit right now if you agree to have sex some time within the next year." She paused for a brief moment and said, "You can kep the porn."

 

In another telling moment a few months ago, she said she would be interested in having sex if someone else was here instead of me. That hurt. A lot.

 

Have I tried discussing all of these issues with her? Yes. Does she respond constructively? Well, if by "constructively" you mean describing my complaints as "ridiculous" or "selfish" or "over-reacting", then, yes.

 

I want my wife to not feel bitter towards me.

I want to feel good about being at home.

I want to feel as if I do not have to panic over everything.

I want to be able to hold her hand.

I want her to want to hold my hand.

I want to be able to talk with her.

I want her to actually talk with me.

I want to actually believe she loves me.

I want her to believe I love her, if not know I love her.

I want to feel she does not blame me for everything which goes wrong.

And, yes, I would eventually like to start having sex again.

 

However, I do not know what to do.

[The Midnight Rider]

Soooooo...is the consensus that his marriage is in the crapper because of his porn usage?

[hopesndreams]

My wife and I have been together over 15 years (dating and marriage). We have three children in elementary school. Since the birth of our third child, sex has occured less and less frequently. At this point, it has been so long, I don't remember the last time we had sex. (I think it was Thanksgiving of 2007.) She won't let me touch her. I am only allowed to kiss her if its a goodnight kiss, the lights are out, and it is only a quick peck. She won't even hold hands with me. She makes showing basic affection a huge struggle.

 

That's a helluva long time. I really can't fathom the why and how you can live like this. She is abusing you with her controlling behaviour. You must feel like total crap. Let her know you will stop looking at porn and get a real woman if she doesn't buck up. Get the D ball rolling 1st though. That might shake her up a bit. Unreal. You have my sympathy.

 

It's one thing for a woman to not want sex for medical reason or she's carrying on with another man but it's obvious from what you wrote that it isn't the case here. IMO.

[Untouchable_Fire]

You have just de-bunked EVERYTHING any other & EVERY OTHER man has ever said to any women, here or anywhere else regarding PORN

You're telling us that If your wife was having significant amount of sex to suit you - WITH YOU - then the porn would go away!!?? I almost feel a little sorry for your wife - because this just cannot be true & for you to tell her so much as "Well, honey if you'd just have sex I wouldn't need porn" for crying out loud. That's a good one.

Ask any other man - Porn is there because men are voyers. Men could have sex 12 times a day & they would STILL look at porn.

It just is what it is.

There is an awful lot of complaining from husbands on here about their wives & lack of sex. What's up with all of this?

In my own marriage - Yep, from time to time there isn't as much sex. But hells, bells, **** happens in every single marriage. Ups/Downs...Sex/No Sex.

My apologies if this comes across as harsh. Kind of hit a bit of a nerve here.

 

You clearly don't know anything about men.

 

I've never used porn when I had an active sex life. Most men are the same.

 

I also have a very hard time maintaining an emotional bond with a woman when there is low or no sex.

[mem11363]

What an odd thing to say. This guy would give up porn in a heartbeat for even a minimal sex life.

 

I think his issues are behavioral - but not porn - his wife was quick to tell him to stick with it.

 

 

Soooooo...is the consensus that his marriage is in the crapper because of his porn usage?

[Toodamnpragmatic]

You have just de-bunked EVERYTHING any other & EVERY OTHER man has ever said to any women, here or anywhere else regarding PORN

 

You're telling us that If your wife was having significant amount of sex to suit you - WITH YOU - then the porn would go away!!?? I almost feel a little sorry for your wife - because this just cannot be true & for you to tell her so much as "Well, honey if you'd just have sex I wouldn't need porn" for crying out loud. That's a good one.

 

Ask any other man - Porn is there because men are voyers. Men could have sex 12 times a day & they would STILL look at porn.

It just is what it is.

 

There is an awful lot of complaining from husbands on here about their wives & lack of sex. What's up with all of this?

 

In my own marriage - Yep, from time to time there isn't as much sex. But hells, bells, **** happens in every single marriage. Ups/Downs...Sex/No Sex.

 

My apologies if this comes across as harsh. Kind of hit a bit of a nerve here.

 

So damn wrong. Mem11363 is absolutely right (hard for me to say that;)). When you are having regular sex, you don't even think about it... Frankly if it is nothing over the norm of acceptable, why the big deal anyways?

 

This has absolutely nothing to with porn in any case. Yet another example of someone steering a sad post to their agenda....

[Crusoe]

Just a thought, could she be suffering from post natal depression?

[hopeful1980]

Maybe I'm the only one who doesn't think it's PPD. I didn't have PPD with either or my children, but my sex drive was nonexsistant. I really don't think it's PPD.

 

I think she doesn't like sex. I think she hasn't ever experienced mind blowing, earth shattering sex and so it's not a priority for her. She probably doesn't know what she likes so she has no idea how to tell prenus. Because she doesn't know how good sex can be, she thinks it's not worth it. This sounds to me like a case of a woman who is unsatisfied or clueless sexually.

[pollswolls]

That's interesting that so many think I'm wrong about the porn issue.

I can't tell you how many times men have said here & other forums that -

 

Porn has nothing to do with their actual sex life.

 

They watch porn because it's there & men are voyers. I'm a woman & really don't care one way or the other when a man watches porn. What I'm saying is - most men say it has nothing to do with their relationship status or how much sex they are or aren't having.

 

I didn't say ALL men - so for those that are up in arms about what I said - You would be the exception to the rule. (for which there are always Exceptions To Every Rule)

[prenus.]

Thank you all for your thoughts and insights. I would like to respond to each one as close to individually and in the order posted as I can. So, if you will, do be patient as I post my comments. I apologize in advance for any cluttering of your inboxes which occurs.

 

For the record, I suppose I am really looking for a way to know objectively when I have done everything I reasonably can (and maybe try to do a few things I unreasonably can do) and to make sure I have done nothing wrong or made up for what I have done wrong before making any demand upon her. Should I get to the point I am making a demand upon her, I want to avoid doing so in a way which makes her feel scared or reluctant to be herself. I want her to feel she need not (metaphorically) 'walk on eggshells' around me. I take love to be a motivation not to restrict another person but to enable them. I married her for who she is and I want her to be who she is.

 

So, this message is not to say, "Do not post any more about this topic," because, if you think of anything to demonstrate I truly am the one doing something wrong, I want to know exactly how and why. If the onus mutati does belong to me, I want to know.

 

Thank you.

[prenus.]

As far as counseling goes, I would. However, our finances are in relatively worse shape than when she first suggested counseling due to the economy and the fact the children need more finances diverted to their needs first. However, I am generally still open to the idea and will keep it in mind.

[prenus.]

Though I have not seen "Fireproof", I know of the movie and understand its general premise. I was under the impression "The Love Dare" was contrived for the film and not an actual text I could read. However, I do not exactly know from where I received that impression. I have learned a local merchant does have a copy of the text and I will give it a try. I am less certain, however, if I will succeed in persuading her to watch the film for reasons I believe irrelevant to this discussion.

[hopeful1980]

Though I have not seen "Fireproof", I know of the movie and understand its general premise. I was under the impression "The Love Dare" was contrived for the film and not an actual text I could read. However, I do not exactly know from where I received that impression. I have learned a local merchant does have a copy of the text and I will give it a try. I am less certain, however, if I will succeed in persuading her to watch the film for reasons I believe irrelevant to this discussion.

 

It doesn't matter if she watches it or not. It only takes one person to do it for the relationship to change. It's worth a shot.

[prenus.]

I did not have the porn until she went on a "sex strike" (her words). Besides, the lack of sex is not the problem but, instead, a symptom of the problem. I was under the impression I had made that point clear. My apologies.

[prenus.]

If I seem timid and terrified of my wife, it is because, with the exception of the children, her feelings are the only ones about which I care. I have no problem telling people what I think of them and what they do or what they say. However, with her, I take an extremely cautious approach to confrontation. As I mentioned earlier, when I express an opinion, I find it routinely dismissed. The more the opinion is about something which is her responsibility, the more vehemently she dismisses it and the more defensive she becomes.

 

We did sit down and discuss expectations about 5 years ago. At the time, her biggest complaint was the fact she thought the house would be much more organized. I said I understood and the house did not become disorganized in one day and would take more than one day to organize again. After the birth of our first child, she said she was concerned because she did want me to touch her. However, the baby was just a few weeks old and I told her every relationship goes thru such a phase when the first baby arrives because the parents are almost always so tired. Overtime, I was proven right. Our routines returned very close to what we knew them as. After the second child, she said she felt guilty because we were not having sex as often as we had after the birth of the first child. I repeatedly explained to her our marriage is not about sex and sex alone; it is about love, respect, affection, and admiration of each other. Again, I want to emphasize the aount of sex is not the issue. The amount of basic affection is.

 

Recently, she has begun repeating, "I am not happy. Unfortunately, I do not know what could or would make me happy."

 

See, I know I can be pretty difficult with which to share a life. So, I like to try to let her do what she wants while I provide for as much of everything else as I can. The way I see it, I am helping to minimize problems for her in at least one area of her life. At least, that is the intention. I get the feeling I am failing in this regard.

 

As far as therapy goes, please see my reply to Malenfant.

[prenus.]

How: porn, weight gain, accelerated hair loss, and periodic bouts of what may have been clinic depression. Why: because I love her and I take our vows as they are written; "for better or worse".

 

I find agreeing with you about the "abuse" aspect difficult solely due to the fact I am the one in the relationship and I am concerned my perception of events may be skewed as a result. At the same time, I do remember the marriage vows of "love, honor, and cherish" and feel as if that portion has not been upheld. However, perhaps her behavior is because of some failure on my part to do the same? I don't know. She seems to not want to talk about it.

 

One of my friends did ask her to lighten up. I learned about the conversation after the fact. Had I known at the time, I would have asked my friend to not do so because it is not my friend's responsibility to fix my marriage. It is mine. I just want one 'sign' to point me in the right direction of something which could be a solution.

 

Anyway, she told my friend things would be fine in about 15 years, once the youngest is out of the house. I don't know if I can live like this another 15 years. Our relationship has already consumed over half of my life. I don't want to be at a point where I have spent 2/3 of my life with someone just to find out they dispise me. I don't know if I can take it.

 

As you can tell I do "feel like total crap", yes. As far as "a real woman", I wouldn't threaten her in that fashion. As confrontational as I am with others, I refuse to be so with her. When I married her, I promised to take steps which I felt would improve the well-being of both of us. I do not see how threats would accomplish this goal.

 

Also, divorce is not an option for me with respect to her. No, I am not catholic. However, I still love her and want to make this relationship work.

 

Thank you for the sympathy. Unfortunately, sympathy is not what I seek. However, I thank you just the same, though. I am certain you mean well. :-)

[hopesndreams]

As you can tell I do "feel like total crap", yes. As far as "a real woman", I wouldn't threaten her in that fashion. As confrontational as I am with others, I refuse to be so with her. When I married her, I promised to take steps which I felt would improve the well-being of both of us. I do not see how threats would accomplish this goal.

 

I didn't mean you should threaten her with it, I meant for you to actually set about doing it. She shows no affection, puts you down, you are miserable and all this stuff could be fixed but she has no interest in doing so.

 

it is not my friend's responsibility to fix my marriage. It is mine.

 

No, no. It takes 2. You can't do this alone. She enjoys how she's treating you, otherwise, she wouldn't do it. Why give up something that causes pleasure? Make it displeasurable for her and then you might just get somewhere. It's your life, you only have but one and if you are going to spend it with someone that shows no love, affection and treats you like a doormat, it's your choice.

[mem11363]

It does not matter WHY you act timid/frightened of your wife. If you act that way she will not respect you and she will be unable to love you because of that.

 

I agree you should forget about sex for the moment. Until you re-establish respect you have nothing. And I find it interesting that you ignored all my comments about how she half listens/openly ignores you/your input. If you let her interact with you that way you cannot fix your marriage.

 

If my wife left me - it would wreck my life. I don't walk around on eggshells - we treat each other as equals. I know how to make her happy and she me. And we both make the effort most of the time. But when she is being difficult or not kind I act the same way with her I do with anyone in that situation.

 

It seems you think being rude/crude bold and brash with others is ok because you don't care what they think, and timid with her is ok because you love her so much.

 

Both styles are not good for your life. As for counseling - you don't seem to be motivated to go even though your marriage is seriously broken. Is your marriage not worth some financial sacrifice.

 

 

 

 

 

 

If I seem timid and terrified of my wife, it is because, with the exception of the children, her feelings are the only ones about which I care. I have no problem telling people what I think of them and what they do or what they say. However, with her, I take an extremely cautious approach to confrontation. As I mentioned earlier, when I express an opinion, I find it routinely dismissed. The more the opinion is about something which is her responsibility, the more vehemently she dismisses it and the more defensive she becomes.

 

We did sit down and discuss expectations about 5 years ago. At the time, her biggest complaint was the fact she thought the house would be much more organized. I said I understood and the house did not become disorganized in one day and would take more than one day to organize again. After the birth of our first child, she said she was concerned because she did want me to touch her. However, the baby was just a few weeks old and I told her every relationship goes thru such a phase when the first baby arrives because the parents are almost always so tired. Overtime, I was proven right. Our routines returned very close to what we knew them as. After the second child, she said she felt guilty because we were not having sex as often as we had after the birth of the first child. I repeatedly explained to her our marriage is not about sex and sex alone; it is about love, respect, affection, and admiration of each other. Again, I want to emphasize the aount of sex is not the issue. The amount of basic affection is.

 

Recently, she has begun repeating, "I am not happy. Unfortunately, I do not know what could or would make me happy."

 

See, I know I can be pretty difficult with which to share a life. So, I like to try to let her do what she wants while I provide for as much of everything else as I can. The way I see it, I am helping to minimize problems for her in at least one area of her life. At least, that is the intention. I get the feeling I am failing in this regard.

 

As far as therapy goes, please see my reply to Malenfant.

[Texsun65]

It appears to me that at some point she decided that she doesn't like sex and she has used that fact to benefit herself. She uses the fact that you need sex as a way to control and manipulate you. As she has seen you neg and grovel for sex and meet her demands as a result of her withholding sex, she has lost respect for you as a man. She has turned you into what she hates and doesn't even realize it.

 

I have no idea if she will love or repect you again, but the first step is to inform her that her bahavior is unnacceptable. I would tell her that you have made a mistake by not demanding that she comply with your needs and to fail to do so will end the marriage. I would tell her that the both of you need to make love and to have sex for the sake of saving your marriage and to not do so is inviting the end of the marriage.

 

Men get caught in this trap of believing they are selfish for needing to make love to their wives, but that is absolutely not true. Men bond with their wives through the physical act of love and their should be no shame or guilt associated with expecting that from their wives. A wife who fails to understand and to willfully and happily comply with this are inviting the destruction of their marriage. Further, if she uses sex as a tool to push you around then that is just flat out wrong.

 

I would begin by telling her that you have been wrong all of theese years by letting her get away with this no sex and using sex a tool to manipulate you. That you reject that situation. That a loving and physical relationship is the best thing to help this marriage to succeed and failure to "get with the program" will likely end the marriage. No apologies! She has lost respect for you because you don't act like a man. It is time to act like a man.

[prenus.]

Because I am new to loveshack.org, I wish to extend my apologies in advance to anyone offended by my demeanor of this post. However, I stand by my expression of offense at what appears to be trivialization of my efforts at making my marriage work better.

 

Excuse me, pollswolls. Perhaps I have missed something. You can't tell me "how many times men have said here & other forums that porn has nothing to do with their actual sex life." Yet, without one piece of evidence, you twice have jumped to the conclusion the only reason men watch porn is because "men are [voyuers]". (By the way, before posting, you may wish to consider running a spell check.) Did it once occur to you, with so many men making this claim, I presume, based on the tenor of your post, frequently and consistently these men might be telling the truth? You suggest I may be the "Exception to the Rule". However, my experience has convinced me men with attitudes like mine with respect to porn are not the "exception to the rule" but are the rule, itself.

 

Now, I came to this forum attempting to save my marriage to my high school sweetheart. I have deliberately turned to no one else for advice, choosing instead to live in stoic silence over this issue for years, in an attempt to save her respect in the eyes of others. However, you have decided of your own free will and without any compulsion on my part to inject yourself into the conversation and, apparently, offer only snide remarks about all men and insinuated attacks on my character with intimations I am a liar. I am amazed. I am astounded. I am disgusted. You do not know me. You have never met me. You know absolutely nothing about me, except what I have posted in this thread. Everything else unspecified about me is extactly that: unspecified. Because I love her, I will take such critiques and insults from my wife. To my knowledge, however, you are not my wife and I refuse to take this treatment from someone who does not even know who the hell I am.

 

For what ever reason, in two comments now, you have described all men with the same proverbial broad brush and laughed at the suffering of mine and that of men in situations like mine. You have stereotyped us, the broadcast of which in this conversation has been provoked solely by my request for some kind of marital 'life line'. You appear to have confounded the orgasm with affection and the erotic with endearment. And you have completely ignored the possibility, for men, the highlight of physical contact can easily be not the penetration of another individual's pelvis but the gentle contact provided by two sets of lips locked in a loving embrace. Therefore, since my asking for guidance in an effort to save my marriage has "Kind of hit a bit of a nerve" in such a way as to prompt your deliberate injection of, in my opinion, an ignorant perspective into this discussion, I kindly ask you do yourself, my wife, and me a favor and either say something useful or get the off this thread right now.