Maybe I really am so horrible with which to live?

[silic0ntoad]

I agree. I think this is exactly what he needs to do. He doesn't have to treat her with the contempt with which she treats him, but he should let his actions speak louder than words. Those actions should be to go on strike.

 

 

Yup. Bro she already dropped the main warhead. She cut off the sex. So return the favor. Cut off everything you do for her. If it doesn't work, get a lawyer.

 

Sometimes you gotta stick your chin up and balls our to get sh*t done, but you're a man, start acting like one.

[hopeful1980]

During the strike prenus, you should figure out what makes you happy. Do things you used to enjoy. Get a gym membership and use it - it's a huge stress reliever. Focus on yourself.

 

I don't know about your wife, but with me if my husband ignores me (not in a mean way, just busy with his own life) it makes me want to get closer to him. It makes me want to be included and involved in his life so I have to get on board with what he is doing to get his attention.

[mem11363]

Prenus,

 

I do agree that you need to escalate to the degree needed for your wife to HONESTLY tell you why she feels the way she does about you and the marriage. And that includes are telling you why she does not like you and respect you.

 

I would not demand sex at this point if you want to stay married. And normally I am the first guy to say - demand sex - but not in this case. There are too many other things broken that need fixing first. If they even can be fixed.

 

But if you don't demand clarity and honest answers - nothing can change because you won't even know where to start.

 

Has she stayed fit? If so, does she resent your 50 pound weight gain? Have you ever asked her?

 

 

During the strike prenus, you should figure out what makes you happy. Do things you used to enjoy. Get a gym membership and use it - it's a huge stress reliever. Focus on yourself.

 

I don't know about your wife, but with me if my husband ignores me (not in a mean way, just busy with his own life) it makes me want to get closer to him. It makes me want to be included and involved in his life so I have to get on board with what he is doing to get his attention.

[confusedinkansas]

Tossing something out here & hoping I don't get chastized for it!

 

Has anyone thought that maybe she's having an affair? Perhaps she's just not into her husband right now? Could it just be that? (A lot of times this is the first assumption by many posters here)

OP - Could your wife be seeing someone & that's why she's not interested in sex with you? I dunno.......Just tossing in a question.

[mark982]

prenus,after reading this thread,and the things your wifes says, i got to ask is there anything she does like/love about you? she seems alittle rough on you,and don't really seem to care how she tells you. but i do love the use of uglyifcation(sp) that's original:D

[prenus.]

That approach feels more comfortable to me than proverbially pulling out all the stops, especially at this point. I am concerned, if the situation ever does transform into said 'war', the marriage will certainly have been lost, replaced with, at best, a 'scorecard' detailing who has done what to whom. Even if I am the only one maintaining the marriage, I would rather not get to that point.

 

Regarding physique, she has stayed fit, yes. In fact, we discussed it the other night. She is actually 10 pounds lighter than she was in 9th grade. I think she was a healthy weight then and is a healthy weight now. Granted, she is more on the lower end of the range for healthy weight but still within that range. Don't misunderstand me: I will love her no matter what she weighs. If she is healthy, though, that weight contributes to maximizing the chances of us being together longer.

 

She did get upset about the fact I began losing hair in my middle to late 20s and I, currently, am 'only' 20 pounds heavier than when we began dating. Still, when we married, I was much leaner than when we first dated.

 

And I know she finds the gain disgusting. We talked about it 20 pounds and ~5 years ago, when I had gained 30 of my 50 extra pounds since high school. Sometimes, in discussions about my attempts to lose weight, I will get something along the lines of, "I doubt it'll work," which few people would be willing to describe as supportive or encouraging.

[prenus.]

At this point, if she is having an 'affair', I would be somewhat relieved. Follow me on this for a moment. Setting aside my belief in 'open marriages', if she is having an affair, it would mean she still has the capability to show affection and respect to someone. Would I much rather that someone be me? Absolutely! If she is having an affair, it would mean there exists at least a slight possibility I could convince her to let that someone be me.

 

Proverbially on the other hand, if she is not having an 'affair', the potential for love, affection, and respect, to my point of view, is diminished.

 

Furthermore, were she having an affair, I would have a sort of 'reference man' from which to assess what differences between him and I would cause her to feel the way she would for him.

 

Now, to answer the question: "could she be having an 'affair'?" I would be extremely surprised if she is. Given our shared knowledge of our respective schedules, if I wanted to, I could too easily check to verify she was actually were I would expect her to be at any given moment. Consequently, I do not see when they would meet. So, no, I think I can reasonably ignore that possibility. Thanks for "[t]ossing something out here," though. :-) I think no idea is stupid, unless explicitly contradicted previously. Even then is no guarantee of 'stupidity'.

[prenus.]

You know what. I don't know. I really don't. Sometimes, when we are on the phone, she will close the conversation with, "I love you." I find myself happy because it suggests a chance to return to 'normalcy' yet confused because of the apparent inconsistancy with her behavior. I really don't understand it.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

That approach feels more comfortable to me than proverbially pulling out all the stops, especially at this point. I am concerned, if the situation ever does transform into said 'war', the marriage will certainly have been lost, replaced with, at best, a 'scorecard' detailing who has done what to whom. Even if I am the only one maintaining the marriage, I would rather not get to that point.

 

Regarding physique, she has stayed fit, yes. In fact, we discussed it the other night. She is actually 10 pounds lighter than she was in 9th grade. I think she was a healthy weight then and is a healthy weight now. Granted, she is more on the lower end of the range for healthy weight but still within that range. Don't misunderstand me: I will love her no matter what she weighs. If she is healthy, though, that weight contributes to maximizing the chances of us being together longer.

 

She did get upset about the fact I began losing hair in my middle to late 20s and I, currently, am 'only' 20 pounds heavier than when we began dating. Still, when we married, I was much leaner than when we first dated.

 

And I know she finds the gain disgusting. We talked about it 20 pounds and ~5 years ago, when I had gained 30 of my 50 extra pounds since high school. Sometimes, in discussions about my attempts to lose weight, I will get something along the lines of, "I doubt it'll work," which few people would be willing to describe as supportive or encouraging.

 

And now you are telling us that she is that shallow????? We know that mem11363 is obsessed with physical appearance, but 20 Lbs is not an awful lot on most males (you aren't 4'6" tall are you;)?). As for hair loss, again that is just too shallow. How about buying a hair piece and only wearing it when you have sex, maybe that will do the trick:laugh:....

 

I am flabergasted that you or your wife would use that as an excuse after 15 years.....

[prenus.]

To Toodamnpragmatic:

 

Actually, I am very short, yes. My height is much closer to 5 feet than to 6 feet. So, 20 pounds is a lot for my size. I do not necessarily think this point qualifies her as shallow, though. Solely from anatomical, biological, evolutionary, physiological, and esthetics perspectives, how many women do you know who actively seek out a partner only a dozen pounds short of obese?

 

As far as the hair is concerned I did try using Rogaine, which did slow the loss rate; slow but not stop nor reverse.

 

Also, though I might not have been clear, my body state did not become a problem for her overnight. She began complaining about it years ago. Though I have tried at times the basic "cut calories and increase exercise" method, the only method I know with a reasonable chance to work for weight loss, I have continued to gain. That gain one can see just by looking at me has not been muscle.

 

Incidentally, I know I have sounded at various points as if I am defending her very behavior about which I am complaining. However, I want to make sure I, as much as I can, I give her point of view a 'fair hearing', so to speak, despite my limited understanding of that view.

[hopeful1980]

So prenus, what's your plan?

[1Angel]

Are you having an affair?

Are you emotionally, physically or verbally abusing her?

Her actions sound like symptoms of someone who is a betrayed spouse and/or victim of abuse.

Other suggestion would be depression. There is help for that.

[Minnie09]

Are you having an affair?

Are you emotionally, physically or verbally abusing her?

Her actions sound like symptoms of someone who is a betrayed spouse and/or victim of abuse.

Other suggestion would be depression. There is help for that.

 

I second that.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

Are you having an affair?

Are you emotionally, physically or verbally abusing her?

Her actions sound like symptoms of someone who is a betrayed spouse and/or victim of abuse.

Other suggestion would be depression. There is help for that.

 

Blame the poster...... Figures and always blaming the man...... Sorry to sound sexist..... but this is not the first time.

[Nikki Sahagin]

Prenus, I just wanted to say for what its worth, I think you sound like a wonderful man; polite, thoughtful, caring and intelligent so I am really sorry for what is happening in your marriage and I wish you all the strength in the world to benefit you and bring you happiness.

 

In my opinion your wife is behaving very selfishly and very confusingly. She is telling you she loves you but none of her actions or behaviours are backing this up so I would respond to her actions rather than to 'I love you' which just about anyone can say at any time and not mean.

 

Does she have anything in her past which stands out to you, like abuse or depression?

 

The thing is there can be no conclusion to this if she doesn't talk to you...which she isn't. Whatever you may or may not have done 'wrong' in her mind, if she isn't talking to you about it, you can't find out what that is and sort it out. As such I think she is selfish because she is punishing you for 'something' that may or may not be your fault. She may be unhappy because of you, because of something else or may simply be attributing it to you when its nothing to do with you at all.

 

I would say to her "look i've had enough, whats bothering you, whats changed?". You can only do so much but if she wont respond, I would encourage you to say why this is so upsetting for you and that you can't take much more.

 

The fact she recoils from you, unless she has a mighty good reason for that...I find that heartbreaking, cruel and incredibly abusive. I mean what wife in her marriage recoils from a hug with her husband?

 

I really do wish you all the best, I think you seem like a great man.

[Nikki Sahagin]

Blame the poster...... Figures and always blaming the man...... Sorry to sound sexist..... but this is not the first time.

 

I have to agree - I think the poster would have mentioned these things IF they had happened and people don't always behave in that way because of abuse. If anything she sounds to me like she is abusing and punishing him with her lack of communication and physical affection. It doesn't even need to be about sex but the lack of talking or hugging or holding hands sounds really cold and heartless to me.

[hopeful1980]

I have to agree - I think the poster would have mentioned these things IF they had happened and people don't always behave in that way because of abuse. If anything she sounds to me like she is abusing and punishing him with her lack of communication and physical affection. It doesn't even need to be about sex but the lack of talking or hugging or holding hands sounds really cold and heartless to me.

 

I agree. This is a legitimate case of alienation of affection.

[prenus.]

Just a quick post shortly before I leave for an appointment ...

 

In order of asking/statement:

 

No.

Not in any way of which I am aware.

While I agree her actions do sound like such symptoms, I do not see any way in which I would have betrayed or abused her.

I will try to discuss the notion of depression with her and ask how she feels about her discussing the matter with her doctor.

 

As far as the "blame the poster argument" goes, I am okay with it, really. If I am at fault, I want to know. I do appreciate people not jumping to conclusions without explanation. However, this appreciation does not mean I am immune from criticism.

[QueenVictoria]

Please click one of the Quick Reply icons in the posts above to activate Quick Reply.

[QueenVictoria]

oops, sorry

[1Angel]

Reread it. It wasn't a blame but a question. He's free to ignore or answer.

[16thstreet]

Prenus, I am new too, and I am really sorry to read about your situation. I know that it's been suggested and slightly rebuffed for financial reasons, but it does seem like some professional intervention really may be one of the last few things that you haven't tried. And, maybe, not starting with couples counseling but individual counseling instead. Would she agree to go see someone she felt like she could talk to in confidentiality?

 

It sounds like she has a lot she wants to say but can't say it for some reason to you. Does she have close friends that she confides things like this to? I know that I have a difficult time verbally communicating negative thoughts or feelings regarding my partner (which is odd because your W seems very verbally negative in some respects...so maybe the inability to communicate stems from something else), even to my close friends. It sounds as though she may be fundamentally unhappy for some reason and blaming you for her unhappiness (and that you are accepting of a lot of that blame which had lead to the doormat comments). But, as you've stated, even when you meet her expectations or demands, they shift to newer loftier heights...which seems to me to really indicate that it isn't at all about you really.

 

If you really love her and want it to work, which it seems that you do, suggest that she see a really good therapist even if it's expensive and that you'll find a way and then actually do find a way. I am not suggesting that she is the only one who would benefit from seeing someone trained to help, but it is a start. She may well reject the idea, but since she did raise the issue initially a few years ago (in the context of couple counseling), maybe she would be receptive. Possibly then after a time transition to joint therapy.

[Phateless]

My wife and I have been together over 15 years (dating and marriage). We have three children in elementary school. Since the birth of our third child, sex has occured less and less frequently. At this point, it has been so long, I don't remember the last time we had sex. (I think it was Thanksgiving of 2007.) She won't let me touch her. I am only allowed to kiss her if its a goodnight kiss, the lights are out, and it is only a quick peck. She won't even hold hands with me. She makes showing basic affection a huge struggle.

 

A few years back, as frustrations in general were beginning to build in our marriage, she suggested we see a counselor together. At the time I felt we could not afford counseling sessions but agreed to them anyway. I said, "That's fine by me. You tell me when and where and I will make sure I am there." Since then, she has never approached the subject again, having dropped the matter as soon as I agreed to it.

 

At various times, she has said, "When such-and-such happens, we can start having sex again." However, everytime (and, yes, I mean 'everytime' literally) that 'such-and-such' has occured, I was told a different 'such-and-such' needed to occur.

 

When asked why she won't have sex with me, she frequently says she feels a great deal of resentment towards me but refuses to say why in any coherent fashion. Now and then, she has said she is on a 'sex strike' until, for example, the house is clean. Yet, (continuing with this example) when I clean the house she gets angry with me because 'You are just cleaning the house so we can have sex'. I do not clean the house just for sex. I actually clean the house to clean the house. Do I succeed everyday? Of course not. I have not even succeeded at cleaning the entire house one day. I do not know of anyone who has. Such accusations are incredibly frustrating and demeaning.

 

She often says she does not blame me for 'this problem' or for 'that problem'. However, I can hear, from the tenor in her voice, she does. I feel as if I need to make things perfect for her to not feel miserable.

 

She routinely ignores my opinion, my advice, and my insight, insisting I must be wrong. Yet, when someone else gives the exact same opinion, advice, or insight, she actually listens and refuses to automatically dismiss such without giving it at least some consideration.

 

When we talk, I usually end up being the only one talking, not because I dominate the conversation (although I can do so quite easily), but because she is routinely distracted with something else: surfing the web, reading a book, talking on the phone, napping on the couch. When she does talk to me, she does so in partial sentences. She will get half way thru the sentence, pause, give me a blank stare, and immediately get distracted with something else, usually what she was doing before (e.g., shopping on-line). I will ask her to finish the thought and she will dismiss me with, "oh, nothing," or "I forget." Now, if she were a stereotypical "air head", I might be somewhat 'okay' about this behavior. However, she is an incredibly intelligent woman.

 

All the years we have been together, I do not recall her ever saying anything nice about me to anyone else. Usually, she says things to make fun of me. This was okay when I thought it was just her form of playful flirting. Over the years, however, she seems to take more and more pride in her 'shots'. I am at a point I do not know why she is even in this marriage.

 

The other day, I said, "I love you," and she replied, "No, you don't."

 

Now, I know I am no where near the perfect husband. I know I am no where near traditional. For example, because, to my mind, sex and love are two separate concepts, I have no objection to a 'sexually open' marriage (with certain precautions to protect each other, of course), though I have never had sex with anyone outside our relationship. I have felt, until she says it is perfectly okay for me to do so, I would respect the more traditional monogomous approach to marriage and she knows this fact.

 

Am I rude, crude, bold, and brash? Yes. However, she knew this when we married and, now, frequently asks me to not say anything in front of her friends because she is afraid I might say something they do not like. I am really confused because, on our wedding day, I thought she married me and not them.

 

And, yes, I have porn on my laptop. I do not deny it. I am not ashamed of it. I have it because we have not been having sex. I keep it in a hidden directory (easily done with a mac) and my children are not sufficiently knowledgable to find that directory. Heck, they hardly get computer time as it is and then are only interested in playing chess or other games, always under our strict supervision. So, no risk of discovery exists.

 

However, in what is to me an extremely telling moment, my wife onced stated she was upset because I have the porn. I explained, "I only have the porn because you and I have not been having sex. I will delete every last bit right now if you agree to have sex some time within the next year." She paused for a brief moment and said, "You can kep the porn."

 

In another telling moment a few months ago, she said she would be interested in having sex if someone else was here instead of me. That hurt. A lot.

 

Have I tried discussing all of these issues with her? Yes. Does she respond constructively? Well, if by "constructively" you mean describing my complaints as "ridiculous" or "selfish" or "over-reacting", then, yes.

 

I want my wife to not feel bitter towards me.

I want to feel good about being at home.

I want to feel as if I do not have to panic over everything.

I want to be able to hold her hand.

I want her to want to hold my hand.

I want to be able to talk with her.

I want her to actually talk with me.

I want to actually believe she loves me.

I want her to believe I love her, if not know I love her.

I want to feel she does not blame me for everything which goes wrong.

And, yes, I would eventually like to start having sex again.

 

However, I do not know what to do.

 

dude... I am sorry to be the one to tell you, but this "relationship" is SO over...

 

She is being a hanus bitch to you and you need to move on.

[Crusoe]

I will try to discuss the notion of depression with her and ask how she feels about her discussing the matter with her doctor.

 

 

Prenus, from the moment I first read your post I thought to myself this mans wife is suffering from depression. She doesn't realise it, she can only speak in terms of how she feels but cannot explain why she feels as she does. The only constants in her life are you and the children, she can remember happiness before them, but not since, therefore you become the cause of her unhappiness, you had sex with her and you gave her kids, therefore in her mind you are to blame. If this is the case you can do whatever she asks and it will not make her happy, simply because whatever you either are, or are not doing, is not the cause of her unhappiness. If this is the case she will not be happy until she gets to a doctor, and if this is the case she may need quite a bit of gentle persuading to get to doctor.

 

I may well be completely wrong but experience tells me it is something you should consider looking into.

[learnfrommymistakes]

Thank you all for your thoughts and insights. I would like to respond to each one as close to individually and in the order posted as I can. So, if you will, do be patient as I post my comments. I apologize in advance for any cluttering of your inboxes which occurs.

 

For the record, I suppose I am really looking for a way to know objectively when I have done everything I reasonably can (and maybe try to do a few things I unreasonably can do) and to make sure I have done nothing wrong or made up for what I have done wrong before making any demand upon her.

 

Prenus

Hi and I think it is great that you posted, it shows you care and are addressing your thoughts. I think you took some harsh hits in responses, when cleary you seem like a kind man trying to help his relationship. So I for one, give you credit for doing this.

 

My guess is that your wife comes from an abusive past...whether phsycially or emotionally. Do you know much about her upbringing or perhaps previous relationships? She has anger and resentment and is taking it out on you it seems. I grew up in a house with a very angry, controlling mother who sounds like your wife (no offense, really) My point is, is that I grew up with this in my head and it had lasting effects on my life and I acted out at times, and pushed people away etc. I am not trying to look deep into your head or make grand statements about your wife, but she seems like she is carrying a whole lot of bitterness and is not willing to talk to you about it. Sounds like you have done all you can, and that sometimes thats all you can do.

 

Counseling, heck yes..

And the porn thing, I have no problem with it. I would not love it if my partner spent hours a day on porn, but have no deep issues with someone watching it..i dont think it is a real issue here, for you, other issues seem way larger and more problematic. I apologize for not reading all the posts before I sent this, but my heart felt a little sad for you, and I felt some urge of protection...odd hah, because you are reaching out for help, not necessarily to be told harshly "this or that".

 

On the other hand, sometimes hard truths are the best, and people on this site have been around and seen/heard a lot, so some of the bold thoughts and advice really are helpful and dead on...its just a matter of taking in what feels useful, and using to help you and your situation.

 

I wish you the best, really I do. Its good to come and express yourself.

lfmm