moimeme Posted December 19, 2003 Share Posted December 19, 2003 The mistake people make is in thinking that the man wants porn INSTEAD of them. NOT TRUE. It is NOT about you. Nor are the exes. Why would he marry you if he didn't think you were good enough for him? What would be the point of leaving the other women if they were that great? It is you who choose to torture your own self with this. Don't do that to yourself!!!! Link to post Share on other sites
peaches1234 Posted December 19, 2003 Share Posted December 19, 2003 I think what us women need to realize when we are bothered by our men looking at porn is this: humans are all naked under their clothes just like every other animal! If you think about it from a biological or evolutionary standpoint, the meaning of life is to reproduce. We aren't meant to wear clothes, we're just foolish enough to live in climates that require it. In comparison to almost every other species on the planet we are the oddballs... It's not wrong for men to want sexual satisfaction. Going with this logic I have to say it's okay for men to look at porn. As for us women...perhaps we initially get upset about men looking at porn for this reason?: It can be construed as infidelity. My apologies for this bit of biological philosophy...Once upon a time back in the hunter-gatherer days, it would have been un-wise for a woman to care for child on her own without some help, in other words, most likely a man. Therefore, keeping a man around would have been a good thing, and infidelity would have been upsetting. Maybe this is where today's upset over porn come from? Just some crazy ideas... Link to post Share on other sites
moimeme Posted December 19, 2003 Share Posted December 19, 2003 It can be construed as infidelity. Not really. In fact, not at all in 99.99% of the cases. Link to post Share on other sites
peaches1234 Posted December 19, 2003 Share Posted December 19, 2003 I mean subconsciously. I'm just tossing out a theory to possibly explain our behavior, really. What I'm getting at is, women might be getting upset about this because it means they are not the only naked woman their man is looking at (perhaps infidelity was the wrong term to use), and at a subconscious level this may go as far back as the need to have a man to nurture our young before modern times. Basically, I'm defending men here, even though in the past I sure as hell got upset about the porn thing and have learned not to let it bother me now. We're all naked under our clothes...sex is necessary for our species survival (aside from frozen eggs and cloning and all that)...therefore it's natural for men to want to look at naked women. Naked women leads to sex, sex leads to babies (but this is obviously not what's on the man's mind at the time!! speaking subconsciously here again) and babies leads to more of our species kicking around. Link to post Share on other sites
dyermaker Posted December 20, 2003 Share Posted December 20, 2003 Peaches, you sound very intelligent, but I hate your theories. Maybe I'm misreading it, but your constant parallels between men and animals sound extremely condescending to me. It's the general consensus of a large number of women, that somehow we can't control ourselves, and we need women to "monogomize" us. It's ignorant, IMHO--I'm not attacking you, just telling you I disagree completely. Link to post Share on other sites
moimeme Posted December 20, 2003 Share Posted December 20, 2003 peaches You're not the first nor the only person who's come up with this theory. It's been thoroughly discussed by sociologists, psychologists, and others. Bottom line is we are a long way from the caves. Most often, if you scratch the surface of somebody worried because of porn, you'll find a real bad case of rotten self-esteem underneath. Link to post Share on other sites
dyermaker Posted December 20, 2003 Share Posted December 20, 2003 Just to note, I wasn't personally attacking you Peaches, I tend to also get upset when "sociologists, psychologists, and others" propose your same theory. Link to post Share on other sites
peaches1234 Posted December 20, 2003 Share Posted December 20, 2003 Just FYI guys, I was just tossing out theories for the sake of philosophical discussion. I didn't say it was the be all and end all reason for the porn issues among men and women, and I was saying that humans are animals, not men in particular (sorry if I gave that impression). What I hate is how we try to remove ourselves from the taxonomic hierarchy, separating ourselves from the rest of living things. Sure, morals separate us from other thinking things, but the basic reproductive instinct is still there, otherwise we would have died off a long time ago. I don't claim these theories as my own. I was involved in lot of philosophical debates in university, which is where I come up with this stuff and why I may look at things differently. I also don't like how everything seems to be reduced to psychology these days - a science that, while reputable, is still struggling to find it's place in the scientific community. My purpose was to introduce perspectives beyond psychology - not to dismiss these perspectives, but to offer an alternative. There is often more than one root cause to behavior, often ones we cannot identify without profound thought, and often the theories we come up with cannot be proven anyway - they are just speculation for the sake of discussion. I was just trying offer suggestions to help this girl (and all us girls who get upset by porn) not blame herself. Link to post Share on other sites
ca Posted December 20, 2003 Share Posted December 20, 2003 Somehow the parallels that Peaches seems to have drawn between men and women , reminds of this huge bestseller by Allan and Barbara pease - ' why men lie and women cry' as well as ' why men dont listen and women cant read maps' Now these books carry a rather jovial observation and analysis on the behavioural patterns of men and women Now and then, as in prehistoric times, when attraction was predominantly governed by the biological need to procreate, and hence variety, and hence more women, and now, slowly this need to "gaze" to graze, leading to infidelity of somekind. SOmehow i feel the style of thinking of men is absolutely not a result of some carry-forward psycological pattern he had long long ago! Guess men see porn because they just want to! A woman's body turns them on, its fun.. period!! Now a woman wouldnt perhaps go out of her way to look at porn, if she had other options to pass her time, its just not her way of gettin a high or turned on ! And women ARE guarded and work more romantically and emotionally than men, so that makes it hard for her to accept her man lookin at other women for pleasure.. Seeing porn is OK, but if its gettin a little offhand, and the woman starts really feeling her husband DOES dig watching porn more than spending time wit her, its a problem... and i belv she has the right to address it ! Link to post Share on other sites
dyermaker Posted December 20, 2003 Share Posted December 20, 2003 Maybe one should draw a distinction between sexuality and intimacy? Link to post Share on other sites
ca Posted December 20, 2003 Share Posted December 20, 2003 In a marraige sexuality governs intimacy between the couple, largely. If the man somehow has more fantasies, and in some way finds masturbation, porn and other women slightly more satisfying, then the marriage can hav serious problems later. If intimacy is rockhard, and communication is strong, guess sexuality stays between the two of them , and occassional instances of the things i mentioned doesnt become a problem. Now the women who really find a problm with porn , etc are perhaps the women who indeed have some problems of intimacy with husbands ( or otherway round too), like me. We see beyond the fact he watches porn, we start analysing and trying to make something out of it ! Guess need to work on intimacy part better Link to post Share on other sites
dyermaker Posted December 20, 2003 Share Posted December 20, 2003 Woah, I didn't mean that. A marriage with strong intimacy should foster a relationship in which the woman is comfortable with a man doing "those things", because she understands the difference, and in which the man is sensitive as to how him doing "those things" would affect the partner, and communicating for the sake of the intimacy. I in no way meant to imply that he should get some sort of "allowance", as a compromise. Link to post Share on other sites
ca Posted December 20, 2003 Share Posted December 20, 2003 You are right in your own way, just that maybe the spouse knows better when things happen beyond comfort level and when there is an understanding between them over all that ! I didnt mean allowance of any kind too ofcourse! I am quite an open person that way, and have got porn once or twice, for fun so that we could watch it together, have a gud time and well, be open and comfortable about the whole thing. THATS okay! What isnt acceptable is middle of the night silently watching it , kinda hiding stuff , and then, even having an irritating roving eye over every single thing in a skirt in the road even as we are having a serious conversation over things.. See transperancy is so important, if there IS transperancy, maybe i wouldnt mind him watching all those nude mags and 'checking' out women ,etc.... ill have the confidence that "WE" dont have a problem with each other an hence.. so n so.. Link to post Share on other sites
dyermaker Posted December 20, 2003 Share Posted December 20, 2003 I'd agree wholeheartedly, well said. The problem isn't in the action, it's in how it's handled. Link to post Share on other sites
ca Posted December 20, 2003 Share Posted December 20, 2003 Is there a fidelity potion ? somethjing like a love potion to make ur husband have eyes and Only eyes for u !!?? sighh.. why cnt things be more easier than tryin to get him talk more to me ! :-( Link to post Share on other sites
dyermaker Posted December 20, 2003 Share Posted December 20, 2003 Are you being facetious? Link to post Share on other sites
ca Posted December 20, 2003 Share Posted December 20, 2003 not! maybe just desperate at the spur of the moment... Link to post Share on other sites
dyermaker Posted December 20, 2003 Share Posted December 20, 2003 Well it's an awful way to look at a relationship. It's funny how people will resort to potions before humbling themselves to communicate, yeah? If your husband masturbates, it is not because he doesn't love you. Your "desperation" is actually insecurity, what about your husband, besides porn, makes you feel like you can't trust him enough? Link to post Share on other sites
moimeme Posted December 20, 2003 Share Posted December 20, 2003 also don't like how everything seems to be reduced to psychology these days - a science that, while reputable, is still struggling to find it's place in the scientific community. My purpose was to introduce perspectives beyond psychology - not to dismiss these perspectives, but to offer an alternative Psychology is fascinating stuff. Don't think 'Freud'. It's much more interesting and plausible than he was. And evolutionary psychology is examining the very issues you brought up. I do agree with you that it's wrong of humans to try to pretend that they are not part of the animal world. Link to post Share on other sites
dyermaker Posted December 20, 2003 Share Posted December 20, 2003 But it's also wrong to pretend we aren't congitively developed enough to carry on a relationship without "animal" behavior. Link to post Share on other sites
moimeme Posted December 20, 2003 Share Posted December 20, 2003 Absolutely. However we do need to comprehend the extent that the animal can try to govern us, if only to comprehend what we must do to deal with it. Link to post Share on other sites
hurtinrealbad Posted December 26, 2003 Share Posted December 26, 2003 Well, I can say that I have looked at a lot of porn in my life and in my marriage. I didn't read any of the other posts, so I'm not sure what other members think, but if he's looking at porn, there is a reason for it. Maybe he is not sexually satisfied or it is possible that he's addicted to sex. Looking at porn is a safe and healthy way to relieve sexual frustration, or at least for me it was and it's obviously better than acting on those feelings with someone else. Of course you can take this all with a grain of salt, coming from a man who's wife is leaving him on January 1st. Anyway, one of the reasons I did it was because our sex life sucked and I just had to satisfy myself somehow, so I turned to porn. It became a regular habit and yes, my wife was upset about it, but I told her I had to satisfy myself somehow. Now the reason our sex life sucked was because of me and I didn't even know it. I was being selfish (reason for looking at porn instead of paying attention and loving my wife). I wasn't giving her the things that she needed and when she saw me looking at porn, it just made her clam up even more (no pun intended!!). Anyway, what I'm saying is talk to your husband. Ask him why he's looking at it so much and ask him if he feels satisfied with you. He may lie and tell you yes so as not to hurt you, but get him to be honest. Don't make the mistake that my wife and I did and ignore it or pretend that it doesn't bother you. Let him know that it does, just say to him "Damn it, do you know how it makes me feel when I know you're looking at that _ _ _ _!!!" You may be surprised at what he has to say and it may resolve itself once he knows that it bothers you and that he knows that you know why he's doing it. Hope this helps, and don't worry, it's a Guy thing anyway, usually starting at a very early age with the lingerie section of the JcPenny and Sears Christmas catalogues...... Link to post Share on other sites
moimeme Posted December 26, 2003 Share Posted December 26, 2003 Don't make the mistake that my wife and I did and ignore it or pretend that it doesn't bother you Don't make the mistake that my wife and I did and ignore it or pretend that it doesn't bother you Worth repeating - and not just for this issue. People need to communicate. Link to post Share on other sites
Author AprilFool Posted December 26, 2003 Author Share Posted December 26, 2003 I'm mad again Link to post Share on other sites
yogi-mon Posted December 26, 2003 Share Posted December 26, 2003 It's not PORN that bothers me, it's the naked women!!! He doesn't look at people having sex, or women giving blow jobs, he looks at beautiful valuptous women naked and being sexy. I am a b cup, and I think I am very well proportioned, but my husband has this fetish with big boobs. This reminds me of my EX girlfriends attitude towards big dicks. its disgusting when you know you cant provide. You tend to beat urself up internally about it. You wonder if you are missing something. My initial advice would be to give him a taste of his own medicine, but frankly that just makes things worse. This stuff makes me sick. I wish our society wasnt so material sometimes. I can really relate to you. Link to post Share on other sites
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